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The Avengers
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boy8cookie
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May 3, 2012, 03:26 PM
 
I'm going to avoid any spoilers, but I just want to declare how awesome this movie is. Great action, perfect amount of humor, very well done effects, even the story was pretty good. I definitely recommend everyone see this.
     
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May 3, 2012, 07:00 PM
 
I'll be seeing it. Does it feel "Whedonesque" ??
     
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May 5, 2012, 10:12 AM
 
Saw it yesterday afternoon. Seriously great movie. After the letdowns of the some of the other comic book movies in the past couple years, this one really blew me away. I may have to go back and watch the lead-up movies that I missed now (Thor, Hulk, & Captain America).

I don't know that I'd call it Whedonesque, at least not in a typical manner. His impact on the film was definitely clear, but it was more in his ability and willingness to let the traditional style and storytelling of the original comic books come through. At the end of the film when his name showed up in the credits I was honestly a little surprised: it certainly didn't feel like what I'd usually associate with Whedon, which, I think, is a huge credit to him and his abilities.
( Last edited by nonhuman; May 5, 2012 at 10:24 AM. )
     
lpkmckenna
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May 5, 2012, 04:25 PM
 
So, about The Avengers....

(Every movie thread at MacNN should be titled with "So, about" and the mods should fix the thread title. We need some 'NN specific conventions around here.)

I just got back from seeing it. How do I put this? Ok, imagine your typical superhero movie, then crank every pleasure-sensing nerve in your body all the way to the right. That's what this movie feels like.

No film can get everything right, but THIS film does everything right that it needs to get right: character, comedy, action, costumes (though I preferred the previous Capt A suit). But most surprisingly, scene resolution is excellent. What do I mean?

The best example is the second time Banner becomes the Hulk. The heroes need the Hulk, so how do they trigger the change? A punch to the head? A yo-momma joke? You see the need for the Hulk coming, the wheels in your head are turning, how's it gonna happen? And then the film resolves it in the most perfect, funny, clever, and character-driven way it could have been done, and it still was a surprise to me. And the audience loved it.

There are so many scenes like this - mostly one-on-one conflicts or discussions - that resolve so well that you want to stand up and cheer. Most of these scenes are Loki + someone else, right up until Loki's final defeat. I'm not gonna spoil it, but you will love that scene. The crowd sure did. Basically, Loki has a one-on-one scene with almost everyone in the film, and those are all the best scenes.

There are several hero-vs-hero scenes, and normally that stuff feels shoehorned in, but every one of them works in this film. There's a mind-control element to one of these, which normally I hate (I watched too much Smallville, which did it every other week), but it fit really well for the character they did it with.

I only have one semi-serious complaint about the film: the battle-tactics talk. It feels completely unnecessary, makes for some terrible dialogue, and doesn't really explain the chaotic battle in any way to the audience. I glazed over every time it came up, and I'm sure the rest of the audience did too. I think the final victory was also a bit too, uh, Phantom Menace-ish. You'll know what I mean when you see the film. That's not the only bad-film association I made, either: the flying lizard ships felt waaaay too close to the Dark of the Moon ships for me.

Every hero gets enough screen time, and it doesn't feel cramped because of the large roster. It gets moving immediately and doesn't waste time explaining stuff. It links plot elements from the previous Marvel films without confusing you if you didn't see them. The film has a surprisingly serious turn in the middle that I wasn't expecting, which also links back to a previous film in a surprising way.

BTW, it didn't feel "Whedonesque" to me. If you didn't know it was Whedon, you wouldn't know at all.

Go see The Avengers. And stay for both post-credits scenes.
     
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May 7, 2012, 08:12 PM
 
'Avengers' ups dollar power with $207.4M | CTV News

These numbers are astounding. The Avengers made more money in a single weekend than any previous Marvel Studios film made in the entire run. And they made over $30M more in the opening weekend than the final Harry Potter, despite the fact that HP was only available in 3D, while Avengers is available in both 2D and 3D, dragging down the ticket sales for every 2D seat.

Will they break the total earnings for Avatar? Or Titanic? Can either The Amazing Spiderman or The Dark Knight Rises catch up to these numbers?

Besides the good reviews and strong word of mouth recommendations, I think there's another reason for The Avenger's success: multiple high-popularity heroes. If you are only a Hulk fan, you will see this film, if you are only an Iron Man fan, you will see this film, and so on. A franchise like the X-Men can't build like this because it only has one or two heroes with a serious fan base (almost no one would see a Cyclops film or an Iceman film).

DC/Warner Bros is watching this very careful, but they lack a key element of the formula: humour. The Justice League is so serious, but the humour of The Avengers is part of why it's so successful.

20th Century FOX is probably reacting to this film too, as they hold the film rights to X-Men, Fantastic Four, Daredevil, and Silver Surfer, which could make an interesting ad hoc team, though it wouldn't have the team name recognition of the Avengers or Justice League. What would you call a team with Wolverine, DD, SS, and one of more of the FF? The Astounding Odd-Balls?
     
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May 7, 2012, 08:57 PM
 
Meh. It was fun. Imax 3D is a must. Won't watch it again with it.

Not much soul, and the cheese cranked to 11. I guess that's how this is supposed to work...? Everyone seems content to leave the emotions to Batman.
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sek929
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May 7, 2012, 09:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Imax 3D is a must.
Meh!

Actually I did indeed see it in Imax 3D, but I stand by my guns that all 3D does is make the foreground and background seem layered while everything in the middle becomes a big muddy goddamn mess. This is most apparent in the grand finale battle scenes, where there was so much action going on that wasn't a part of the clear foreground that much of the action was lost. I prefer a regular D Imax movie greatly, but I guess the movie industry needs some kind of gimmick to fill seats.

Past that I found the movie incredibly enjoyable, and I am notoriously meh on super hero movies.
     
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May 7, 2012, 09:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
What would you call a team with Wolverine, DD, SS, and one of more of the FF? The Astounding Odd-Balls?
Secret Wars. I've been hoping they would go there 10 years ago. This is getting close.
Secret Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However I see this as more probable. [Secret Invasion]
Secret Invasion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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May 7, 2012, 09:39 PM
 
I enjoyed it quite a bit. The action, one liners, character Dev were all done well. RD Jr killed it.
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May 7, 2012, 09:41 PM
 
Oh, and
 
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May 7, 2012, 11:39 PM
 
This a popcorn movie done right. Pure fun.

Knocked it out of the park. I'm getting tired of all the superhero movies, but this one was something special.

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May 8, 2012, 12:44 AM
 
only those who have seen it will understand:

"......Hulk: Smash"
What, me worry?
     
Shaddim
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May 8, 2012, 01:21 AM
 
 


Oh, and yes, a Whedon fan could tell that he was in charge:

 


All very minor though, he did an amazing job and my hat's off to him.


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May 8, 2012, 05:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
"puny god..."
Some great humour, excellent effects and good tie-ins to the previous films.

First time that I've ever seen a film in 3D. Like sek said, sometimes it was good, sometimes not-so. It seems that you spend more time trying to find focus points with 3D. It also didn't seem to be 3D all the time, maybe its my eyesight (I wear glasses) though.

A true Super-hero film, that IMHO brought out the best from the previous Marvel films.
     
badidea
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May 8, 2012, 05:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
"......Hulk: Smash"

The best part of the movie!
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ShortcutToMoncton
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May 8, 2012, 01:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Meh!

Actually I did indeed see it in Imax 3D, but I stand by my guns that all 3D does is make the foreground and background seem layered while everything in the middle becomes a big muddy goddamn mess. This is most apparent in the grand finale battle scenes, where there was so much action going on that wasn't a part of the clear foreground that much of the action was lost. I prefer a regular D Imax movie greatly, but I guess the movie industry needs some kind of gimmick to fill seats.
Yeah, it's definitely gimmicky, and it was definitely most terrible in the big battle scenes - you end up focusing solely on two flying guys coming out of the screen and missing everything else. But it is pretty cool, and besides there's so much gimmick in this film it fits right in anyway.
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May 8, 2012, 04:53 PM
 
I haven't seen it yet, but the only thing that could make it more awesome is if Captain Hammer had a cameo.
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May 8, 2012, 06:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by badidea View Post

The best part of the movie!
Actually my favorite part was when he did his impersonation of Fred Flintston's neighbors son (Bam Bambam bam bambambambam bam).
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May 9, 2012, 12:21 AM
 
The best analysis of how this Hulk is different (and superior) by none other than....the hulk: Film Crit Hulk Reviews Mark Ruffalo's Performance as Hulk : The New Yorker

Warning: Spoilers.

ENTER MARK RUFFALO.

IT’S SAFE TO SAY THAT WITH HIS PERFORMANCE IN JOSS WHEDON’S “THE AVENGERS” SOME OF THOSE MUCH NEEDED QUALITIES HAVE RETURNED. HE DOESN’T QUITE HAVE BIXBY’S PATERNAL ELEMENT, BUT HE DOES HAVE THAT SAME INHERENT KINDNESS. HE ISN’T MOPING OR OBSESSED WITH HIS OWN PROBLEMS, HE’S GENTLE AND DIGNIFIED. THERE’S SOMETHING SO UNASSUMING AND EVEN CUTE ABOUT HIM. WHEN WE FIRST MEET DR. BANNER IN INDIA, HE’S DOING MEDICAL WORK FOR THE POOR IN “THE MOST STRESSFUL PLACE IN THE WORLD.” BUT THAT DOESN’T SEEM TO BE AN ISSUE FOR HIM. SOME YEARS HAVE PASSED AND SOMEHOW HE SEEMS IN FULL CONTROL. BUT HE ALSO SEEMS IMPOSSIBLY WEARY AND HAGGARD. HE’S A MAN WHO HAS LIVED AND LOST MORE THAN IMAGINABLE.
     
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May 9, 2012, 06:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Actually my favorite part was when he did his impersonation of Fred Flintston's neighbors son (Bam Bambam bam bambambambam bam).
I thought that's what you meant with Hulk: Smash!?
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May 9, 2012, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by badidea View Post
I thought that's what you meant with Hulk: Smash!?
Saw this yesterday with my 5-year-old, who is a huge Avengers fan. It was just awesome. BUT I prepared by watching all of the precursor Marvel Cinematic Universe stuff. It would probably fly by itself, but WITH the MCU stuff it was just amazing. Ruffalo's performance as Hulk was the best (but we already knew that Hulk was the most important part of the Avengers anyhow). Fantastic film, best movie I've seen in a while.

SPOILER

 
( Last edited by finboy; May 9, 2012 at 02:44 PM. Reason: to add spoiler hides)
     
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May 9, 2012, 04:17 PM
 
 


This is the first time I've ever said this about a film of this type, but it is truly epic.
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May 9, 2012, 08:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by badidea View Post
I thought that's what you meant with Hulk: Smash!?
note the elipse, quote marks, colon, and (by pure luck) green grinning smily.

It came before Bam Bam.
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May 10, 2012, 01:53 AM
 
Saw it today, genuinely loved me. Also I LOVED the dialogue which is where you can really tell Joss wrote the thing. It's witty, it's clever, it's quick and they establish so much more than most writers can in the space.

The fight scenes and the special effects weren't what made the movie though they were great, the plot honestly wasn't even that special speaking objectively, the plot really took a back seat to bloody awesome characters and writing and a cast that did a great job with the material. There were so many little clever things in a movie that fits in a genre where you normally shut off your brain and try not to think of the inconstancies between the movies and the source material.

I can't WAIT for a sequel.
     
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May 28, 2012, 03:43 PM
 
Saw it last Friday. Rather unimpressed. A reasonable use of 2.5 hours, but after the movie ended I promptly forgot about it.

I hate to admit it, but I actually preferred the original Transformers to this movie, and I thought the original Transformers had lots of problems.

Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Oh, and yes, a Whedon fan could tell that he was in charge:

 
That's one of the reasons I was less enthused about the movie. That character didn't mean much to me.
     
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May 28, 2012, 08:05 PM
 
Yeah that was one of the problems. Joss was the only one who made that a character likeable and by the time the movie was in full swing you cared way too much about it's focal points.
     
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May 28, 2012, 09:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
I may have to go back and watch the lead-up movies that I missed now (Thor, Hulk, & Captain America).
I made the effort to watch them prior to seeing Avengers. Pretty solid "meh" from me for Thor and Captain America. They do add a little back story, but other than that they didn't do much for me.
     
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May 29, 2012, 06:32 AM
 
I really liked Captain America, since it was well produced, a good story with good acting, and it had the right "feel" to it. I really liked The Avengers, because Joss got it all right: character-driven story, solid performances, great visuals that added to the scenes instead of dominating them, etc. Gotta see Thor now, but first I need to take my wife to see The Avengers so she'll be up to speed...

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May 29, 2012, 06:52 AM
 
i really liked it too. Was it technically speaking the most amazing film ever? Obviously not. But it's probably the best superhero ensemble that Hollywood will ever be able to produce. I was convinced that attempting to put all those stars in one film would have put the project into production hell, but they pulled it off well.

They found a way to play to each character's strengths and give each one a sufficient amount to do at each major point in the film. The action was also well structured so as to keep the spectacle level up without going overboard. Even Loki was more interesting to me, although his intentions for the earth are a bit muddled.

8.5/10

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Jun 5, 2012, 08:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
They found a way to play to each character's strengths and give each one a sufficient amount to do at each major point in the film. The action was also well structured so as to keep the spectacle level up without going overboard. Even Loki was more interesting to me, although his intentions for the earth are a bit muddled.
Finally got to see this last weekend. A month after opening, showed up 1/2 hour before the only 3D showing, it was sold out and the other shows were too late for our sitter. Had to settle for a 2D showing at another smaller theater, which also filled but at least we got good seats. This movie is still bringing the box office.

Totally agree about the characters, none of them felt extra. They each had a part to play. I especially was glad that Black Widow was not just pretty face window dressing. Haven't read the comics but she didn't feel "buffy ish" to me.

The hulk as human, gentle, restrained, weary. He had some good moments.

Partly due to this thread and partly because I know Joss, the minute I heard about the cellist I was like "oh there we go." However it was well done, great last words and it did feel right. Should that death have galvanized the crew when obviously plenty of citizens had died already to "galvanize" them? Maybe it wasn't necessary but it felt right.

Also not sure what Loki's point was, unless general mischief.

I look forward to taking my oldest to see it, in a better theater. As a Whedon fan I feel totally vindicated in my fandom. Give the man more money and let him make more films, Hollywood.
     
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Jun 5, 2012, 09:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Had to settle for a 2D showing at another smaller theater, which also filled but at least we got good seats. This movie is still bringing the box office.
I've not seen many 3D films, but I don't think that non-cartoon films make for good 3D.
     
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Jun 5, 2012, 10:09 AM
 
I actually kept thinking there was a character missing for some reason. Don't know why that was.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jun 5, 2012, 10:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Also not sure what Loki's point was, unless general mischief.
Me too, which is probably one of the big reasons I didn't think much of the movie. ie.

1. Loki? Why?

2. I just don't get Thor either. Some strong dude with a hammer.

3. The guy who bit the dust? I didn't care about him.

I actually liked Captain America though, and I thought I wouldn't.

P.S. I saw it in 2D, because 3D gives me a wicked headache.
     
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Jun 5, 2012, 12:15 PM
 
I think perhaps they are saving loki's point for the next movie, that or I missed it in the Thor movie. I also don't know who the guys were at the end credit bonus scene. Mysterious evil aliens... one of whom is played by Alexis Denisoff??? A waste of pretty.
     
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Jun 5, 2012, 12:21 PM
 
Haha, the banner ad just now was something to do with The Avengers.
     
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Jun 5, 2012, 12:25 PM
 
Yeah, if there's one criticism I have about the Avengers, it's that the main villain is absolute weaksauce. Never mind the mythical background that is also a complete turn-off.
     
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Jun 5, 2012, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I think perhaps they are saving loki's point for the next movie, that or I missed it in the Thor movie.
You didn't miss it. I watched Thor in prep and was disappointed that Loki wasn't explored AT ALL. They only needed one or two scenes of him causing mischief just cuz and that would have gone a long way to establishing his character. Instead it's just "I have dark hair and am jealous of my fair-haired brother. Also, my dad doesn't love me as much. So I want all the power in the world. And to kill everything!" So he wants attention and the love of his father. Kinda weak as world domination motivation goes.

Btw, the bad guy at the end was

I had to look him up. To me he looked like a more expressive version of:

Who I think would have been a great baddie if they wanted to bring the X-Men into it.
     
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Jun 5, 2012, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
Me, too. Still love the eps of him from the 90s X-Men.

Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
Who I think would have been a great baddie if they wanted to bring the X-Men into it.
Different studios, unfortunately.
     
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Jun 5, 2012, 09:46 PM
 
 


I'm quite an uber comics geek. First time I saw the film I, more loudly than I should have, said:

 


Yeah, the people around me looked at me like I was a freak. Screw `em.
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Jun 6, 2012, 10:25 AM
 
 

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
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Jun 6, 2012, 02:20 PM
 
Finally saw it now. Liked it a lot, and it didn't feel too Whedonesque to me. Nothing wrong with that, I love his writing when it works, but I know that those of us who do aren't exactly a majority. Best comment:
 


In Norse mythology, Loki is "The trickster". He's not inherently evil - he's a schemer and and he pranks, and he is only punished after one of his pranks goes bad. It is from that point on that he becomes more of a stereotypical evil, but that is at least partially because he's slightly pissed about being chained to a rock for millennia. Note that the fact that he's not one of the Asar is not a big deal - quite a few of the people in Asgard aren't, and he has been accepted by the Asar and even married one of them. I was never a fan of the comic books, so I don't how he is portrayed there. His deal in this movie felt like it had been cut short, but basically he's still steaming over what happened in the Thor movie and made a bad deal. He's not exactly a great villain, though.
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Jun 6, 2012, 03:32 PM
 
I'm familiar with the actual folklore, I was talking about the comics mythology.
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Jun 6, 2012, 07:32 PM
 
Ok, here's a few good points, why didn't they realize Loki wanted to be captured sooner:

How The Avengers Should Have Ended - YouTube

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Jun 9, 2012, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I think perhaps they are saving loki's point for the next movie, that or I missed it in the Thor movie. I also don't know who the guys were at the end credit bonus scene. Mysterious evil aliens... one of whom is played by Alexis Denisoff??? A waste of pretty.
Didn't they state pretty clearly in this flick that Loki's intention was to conquer and subsequently rule Earth?
     
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Jun 9, 2012, 03:49 PM
 
yeah, but why? sibling rivalry (I'm going to break your favorite toy) seems kind of weak.

Also, he did seem to kind of show mixed emotions at some point, seemed like there were scenes that were cut. That and the post-credits scene... there's more going on. Which means the next movie could be awesome also. ?
     
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Jun 10, 2012, 03:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
yeah, but why? sibling rivalry (I'm going to break your favorite toy) seems kind of weak.

Also, he did seem to kind of show mixed emotions at some point, seemed like there were scenes that were cut. That and the post-credits scene... there's more going on. Which means the next movie could be awesome also. ?
Ya, there's clearly more outside force going on beyond what was revealed but as far as Loki's motivations I took it at face value, myself. I guess I just didn't expect anything more from a super-villain storyline.
     
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Jun 10, 2012, 06:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Me too, which is probably one of the big reasons I didn't think much of the movie. ie.

1. Loki? Why?


3. The guy who bit the dust? I didn't care about him.
That was way too contrived. I cringed when Coulson himself suggested that his death would motivate the group. Really? Sure, he's a minor focus in the movie, but in the context of the situation, just some random (and slightly annoying) dude really. Who cares that he died doing something kinda stupid?
     
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Jun 10, 2012, 08:40 AM
 
To be fair to Coulson, I think he said that kind of ironically, in a nod to the trope.

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Jun 10, 2012, 08:39 PM
 
Coulson is also the first character from SHIELD that we ever see, at least with a name. He shows up in Iron Man (and establishes the relationship with Pepper that we see in Avengers kind of early on, leading the team that tries to catch Stane at stark's arc reactor complex. He was no afterthought, nor a character of convenience.

Of course, we think Coulson is dead, but that is by Nick Fury's word, and Nick lied to Rogers and Stark about the trading cards...

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Jun 11, 2012, 12:39 AM
 
Okay fair enough. Everyone would probably say, "Oh gee, Coulson bought the farm? Gee, that sucks. He was a nice guy."

But all the 'motivating the team' stuff? I dunno, to me it just wreaked of "unnecessary movie plot contrivance". (Really, there wasn't enough of a threat going on to motivate the team otherwise?) And would Nick Fury really pull the cheap playing card stunt? Eeeh. (hmm... but maybe you're right that Coulson isn't really dead...)

But I'm nitpicking, of course. I loved the movie. So far one of my favorites from Marvel.
     
 
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