Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Army base 'has damaged Babylon'

Army base 'has damaged Babylon'
Thread Tools
Salah al-Din
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 15, 2005, 09:33 PM
 
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 15, 2005, 09:52 PM
 
that is damage? tank tracks?

try looking at Europe after WW2.
     
CreepingDeth
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Interstellar Overdrive
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 15, 2005, 10:30 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
that is damage? tank tracks?

try looking at Europe after WW2.
And northern France and Belgium after WWI.

And the South after Civil War.

New England after the Revolutionary War.
     
strictlyplaid
Senior User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 15, 2005, 10:34 PM
 
Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
And northern France and Belgium after WWI.
True, but it's still sad that Babylon has been damaged, and I don't see why you have to engage in this "Oh yeah? Well we REALLY blew crap up in Dubya Dubya Two!" form of onesupsmanship.

Actually, we ended up dropping more explosives on Vietnam than we did on WWII, so maybe a comparison to *that* war is more apt (in more ways than one.)
     
CreepingDeth
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Interstellar Overdrive
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 15, 2005, 11:04 PM
 
Not necessarily. Since Europeans boast how beautiful Europe and its architecture are, you're more worried about blowing up undeveloped jungle than 4 century old monasteries? Hmm…

I'd rather it not be damaged, but war is war, and stuff gets blown up. That'sthe nature of war.
     
strictlyplaid
Senior User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 15, 2005, 11:08 PM
 
Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
I'd rather it not be damaged, but war is war, and stuff gets blown up. That'sthe nature of war.
Yes, and by all means, if anyone laments it, let's throw the post-Civil War South in their face and tell them to stop their whining.

I'm finished with this conversation.
     
Curios Meerkat
Forum Regular
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: América
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 15, 2005, 11:13 PM
 
Your attitude only shows your ignorance, NYCFarmboy and CreepingDeth.
Learn from history, else be condemned to repeat it (not that I expect you to ever follow this advice).
( Last edited by Curios Meerkat; Jan 15, 2005 at 11:37 PM. )

…somehow we find it hard to sell our values, namely that the rich should plunder the poor. - J. F. Dulles
     
SimpleLife
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 15, 2005, 11:22 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
that is damage? tank tracks?

try looking at Europe after WW2.
Yeah!

And let's act as if we haven't learned a thing!
     
Krusty
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Always within bluetooth range
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 15, 2005, 11:45 PM
 
What happened there would be more appropriately compared to intentionally dismantling the Pyramids than to any of the war related damage cited above by Farmboy or Deth. Sad part is, it was completely unnecessary .. the damage didn't come from guns being fired but from the army deciding it'd be a swell place to set up a depot. In the process, tons of archaeologically significant soil was dug up to fill sand bags, acres were cleared and covered with gravel for parking, oil and chemicals from vehicles dropped into the soil, and several structures were damaged by human hands (troops?) trying to pick and pry mementos from them. This area was the site of one of the seven wonders of the world and was the capital city for both Hammurabi and Nebuchadnezzar. This area has survived centuries of foreign occupation and war intact ... and then gets substantially ruined by simple careless disregard.

Let's Celebrate !!!
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2005, 01:28 AM
 
Originally posted by SimpleLife:
Yeah!

And let's act as if we haven't learned a thing!

had this been WW2 the mosques used as cover by the terrorists would have been flattened.

instead it is being fought "politically correct" so the only thing opponants of freedom and democracy can do is moan about tank tracks thru the sand.
( Last edited by NYCFarmboy; Jan 16, 2005 at 01:54 AM. )
     
Krusty
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Always within bluetooth range
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2005, 02:39 AM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
had this been WW2 the mosques used as cover by the terrorists would have been flattened.
ummm ... the mosques have been flattened when needed. Check Fallujah "the city of mosques" .. they're mostly destroyed or heavily damaged. What exactly does this have to do with an archaeological site being ruined ? Nobody is claiming that mosques were destroyed in Babylon. What has been destroyed is 7000 years of history ... 5700 of which occurred before Islam even existed or the first mosque was ever built. If you come from the Judeo-Christian tradition, most of what has been destroyed is YOUR history. You just flat out pulled mosques out of your butt and smeared it into your post. This has ZERO to do with mosques.
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:

instead unfortunately it is being fought "politically correct" so the only thing opponants of freedom and democracy can do is moan about tank tracks thru the sand.
"Tank tracks thru the sand" is not what is being lamented by the Archaeological community ... this is pointed out above ... your read it, and you know it. You are being intentionally dishonest or just plain obtuse to pretend that that is what people are making a fuss about. 2600 year old paving stones being crushed ranks among the LEAST of the damage done at this site.
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2005, 04:13 AM
 
Originally posted by Krusty:
ummm ... the mosques have been flattened when needed. Check Fallujah "the city of mosques" .. they're mostly destroyed or heavily damaged. What exactly does this have to do with an archaeological site being ruined ? Nobody is claiming that mosques were destroyed in Babylon. What has been destroyed is 7000 years of history ... 5700 of which occurred before Islam even existed or the first mosque was ever built. If you come from the Judeo-Christian tradition, most of what has been destroyed is YOUR history. You just flat out pulled mosques out of your butt and smeared it into your post. This has ZERO to do with mosques.

"Tank tracks thru the sand" is not what is being lamented by the Archaeological community ... this is pointed out above ... your read it, and you know it. You are being intentionally dishonest or just plain obtuse to pretend that that is what people are making a fuss about. 2600 year old paving stones being crushed ranks among the LEAST of the damage done at this site.

If you think that the destruction in Iraq is anywhere close to what happened in Germany or Japan during WW2 you have no concept of reality.
     
Luca Rescigno
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2005, 05:13 AM
 
Why do you keep rationalizing it though? Saying that worse things have been done in the past provides absolutely NO justification for what we're doing now.

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2005, 05:18 AM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
If you think that the destruction in Iraq is anywhere close to what happened in Germany or Japan during WW2 you have no concept of reality.
Do you even understand what people are talking about? Do you?

This isn't about destroying people's property. It's about needless disregard for a historical treasure, much more akin to somebody deciding to use the Constitution as toilet paper than the havoc wreaked on Germany half a century ago.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Scientist
Senior User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Madison
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2005, 08:04 AM
 
This makes me sick to my stomach. What a waste...
Is it not reasonable to anticipate that our understanding of the human mind would be aided greatly by knowing the purpose for which it was designed?
-George C. Williams
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2005, 08:56 AM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
Do you even understand what people are talking about? Do you?

This isn't about destroying people's property. It's about needless disregard for a historical treasure, much more akin to somebody deciding to use the Constitution as toilet paper than the havoc wreaked on Germany half a century ago.
It seems many Americans have no concept of ancient history beyond its appeal as a theme-park tourist attraction.
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2005, 01:10 PM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
Why do you keep rationalizing it though? Saying that worse things have been done in the past provides absolutely NO justification for what we're doing now.
LOL sorry to rain on your anti-Democracy parade.
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2005, 09:47 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
had this been WW2 the mosques used as cover by the terrorists would have been flattened.
But it's not WWII, and if Iranian soldiers invaded and ran tanks through the Vatican, the Catholics would be up in arms about how terrible it is.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
IceBreaker
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Feb 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 12:52 AM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
that is damage? tank tracks?

try looking at Europe after WW2.

     
Luca Rescigno
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 01:24 AM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
LOL sorry to rain on your anti-Democracy parade.
What? When did I attack democracy? In fact, what does any of this have to do with politics?

Nothing, that's what. You're just using politics as a means of hiding from your flawed arguments. I could think of a million examples of why past actions don't justify current actions. Africans were sold as property over a century ago in the US, more recently in some other countries. Does that mean that indentured servitude is justified because it's not as bad? No. I don't want to use any more examples because I'm afraid you'll latch onto any political aspects of them and turn them against me.

EDIT: BTW, your "tank tracks" comment is 100% unfounded. In that entire article, the word "tank" only appears once, and "tracks" or "treads" never appears at all. In fact, it refers to tanks "crushing" things, not leaving tracks. Where did you get the idea? Did you just make it up hoping people would not read the article and receive your own stilted analysis of the events?

Seriously... it's one thing to disagree with someone's viewpoint. But at this point you're making stuff up, jumping to conclusions, putting words in people's mouths, etc. I don't care what your political affiliation is, that's just wrong, and dumb.

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 03:38 AM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
What? When did I attack democracy? In fact, what does any of this have to do with politics?

Nothing, that's what. You're just using politics as a means of hiding from your flawed arguments. I could think of a million examples of why past actions don't justify current actions. Africans were sold as property over a century ago in the US, more recently in some other countries. Does that mean that indentured servitude is justified because it's not as bad? No. I don't want to use any more examples because I'm afraid you'll latch onto any political aspects of them and turn them against me.

EDIT: BTW, your "tank tracks" comment is 100% unfounded. In that entire article, the word "tank" only appears once, and "tracks" or "treads" never appears at all. In fact, it refers to tanks "crushing" things, not leaving tracks. Where did you get the idea? Did you just make it up hoping people would not read the article and receive your own stilted analysis of the events?

Seriously... it's one thing to disagree with someone's viewpoint. But at this point you're making stuff up, jumping to conclusions, putting words in people's mouths, etc. I don't care what your political affiliation is, that's just wrong, and dumb.

oh please spare me that bull


seriously in a few weeks there will be a free election in Iraq and this is the best you can do to oppose it?
( Last edited by NYCFarmboy; Jan 17, 2005 at 03:48 AM. )
     
eklipse
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 03:57 AM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
oh please spare me that bull


seriously in a few weeks there will be a free election in Iraq and this is the best you can do to oppose it?
     
Luca Rescigno
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 04:11 AM
 
Originally posted by eklipse:





"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
torsoboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 04:54 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
It seems many Americans have no concept of ancient history beyond its appeal as a theme-park tourist attraction.
This is true for some Americans (myself included); I share a lack of concern for historical buildings, etc... I do think that we should be carefull around what other people value, but a building in and of itself is just a building. I can't understand why people put such value on material objects like that. Yea it was around in bible times, and it is pretty cool to see it, but it's just a few walls and paths made from the same ground and stones that continues to exist today. Learning from historical events is one thing, but it's not like having an old building, road, tomb, etc. is going to help anyone today (except for those that get paid to look at things like that).

Maybe the attitude comes from our country only being a few hundred years old, I don't know.

[edit] remember that i don't speak for all americans (or even any other than myself), so don't think all of them are unconcerned about historical artifacts. maybe it's just me.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 06:11 AM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:




Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 06:41 AM
 
Originally posted by torsoboy:
This is true for some Americans (myself included); I share a lack of concern for historical buildings, etc... I do think that we should be carefull around what other people value, but a building in and of itself is just a building. I can't understand why people put such value on material objects like that. Yea it was around in bible times, and it is pretty cool to see it, but it's just a few walls and paths made from the same ground and stones that continues to exist today. Learning from historical events is one thing, but it's not like having an old building, road, tomb, etc. is going to help anyone today (except for those that get paid to look at things like that).

Maybe the attitude comes from our country only being a few hundred years old, I don't know.

[edit] remember that i don't speak for all americans (or even any other than myself), so don't think all of them are unconcerned about historical artifacts. maybe it's just me.
What would happen, do you think, if somebody started taking potshots at Mt. Rushmore? Or if George Washington's house in <wherever it stands> were demolished?

This stuff is just old rocks and buildings, but they are an integral part of a people's cultural heritage and identity. And considering that the Euphrate and Tigris area is a cradle of human civilization, that INCLUDES YOU.

You are trampling the Garden of Eden, destroying Biblical history, and not thinking twice of it.

This kind of ignorance breeds hatred. Don't act surprised.

-s*
     
Sven G
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Milan, Europe
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 08:09 AM
 
Originally posted by Curios Meerkat:
Learn from history, else be condemned to repeat it
Now, this is probably something everyone could reasonably agree on...

The freedom of all is essential to my freedom. - Mikhail Bakunin
     
Hugi
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Probably some pub in Reykjavik
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 08:30 AM
 
Originally posted by Sven G:
Now, this is probably something everyone could reasonably agree on...
After reading this thread, I wouldn't count on it.
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 09:21 AM
 
<snip>
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 09:23 AM
 
?
     
torsoboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 11:59 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
What would happen, do you think, if somebody started taking potshots at Mt. Rushmore? Or if George Washington's house in <wherever it stands> were demolished?

This stuff is just old rocks and buildings, but they are an integral part of a people's cultural heritage and identity. And considering that the Euphrate and Tigris area is a cradle of human civilization, that INCLUDES YOU.

You are trampling the Garden of Eden, destroying Biblical history, and not thinking twice of it.

This kind of ignorance breeds hatred. Don't act surprised.

-s*
Like I said, I think we should be respectfull of things other people value, but if Mt Rushmore was destroyed, it wouldn't effect my life or most anyone elses life at all. And if the Garden of Eden was destroyed the same would be true (although I believe that the greatness of the Garden of Eden was destroyed with the fall of man). That kind of hatred breeds hatred, not that kind of ignorance. If someone decides to hate someone because of some destroyed piece of rock, that is there own personal problem, they can't blame that on someone else. No ones life is worth less than a piece of stone.
     
Zimphire
Baninated
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Moon
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 12:39 PM
 
Babylon has been "damaged" a few hundred times before the US got there.
     
Salah al-Din  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 12:54 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Babylon has been "damaged" a few hundred times before the US got there.
Like people have said before, slavery was once accepted. Does that make it OK?


I must say I'm amazed by how some here react to this
     
finboy
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Garden of Paradise Motel, Suite 3D
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 01:32 PM
 
I think folks react to it this way because of the unflinching reactions of many that place the US in a bad light no matter what is happening. A knee jerk deserves a knee jerk. Don't be surprised that some people feel the need to react that way after hearing negative spin at every turn.

How about a headline that says "US Army prevents madman from continuing to damage Babylon, and frees millions of enslaved & oppressed Babylonians!"? Given the above arguments about the history of mankind, those freed citizens are OUR COUSINS!!!!! Thank God for the US of A!
     
Salah al-Din  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 01:38 PM
 
Originally posted by finboy:
I think folks react to it this way because of the unflinching reactions of many that place the US in a bad light no matter what is happening. A knee jerk deserves a knee jerk. Don't be surprised that some people feel the need to react that way after hearing negative spin at every turn.

How about a headline that says "US Army prevents madman from continuing to damage Babylon, and frees millions of enslaved & oppressed Babylonians!"? Given the above arguments about the history of mankind, those freed citizens are OUR COUSINS!!!!! Thank God for the US of A!
That headline would be wrong because that madman actually funded much of the research and the rebuilding of it. Nice try but no cigar.


So tell me. How should this be reported so you'd be able to drop the kneejerk reaction?
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 01:43 PM
 
Originally posted by finboy:
I think folks react to it this way because of the unflinching reactions of many that place the US in a bad light no matter what is happening. A knee jerk deserves a knee jerk. Don't be surprised that some people feel the need to react that way after hearing negative spin at every turn.
I'm not going to excuse one group of people for being stupid just because another group is too.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 01:45 PM
 
People shouldn't be amazed that some people care about the liberation & freedom of a country to bring longterm peace & a long term solution to the middle east and terrorism.

It is your right to express and hold a different opinion, but you are sadly dillusional if you think other people where free expression is allowed will remain silent when something they view as quite rediculous & silly is posted.
     
Salah al-Din  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 01:51 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
People shouldn't be amazed that some people care about the liberation & freedom of a country to bring longterm peace & a long term solution to the middle east and terrorism.

It is your right to express and hold a different opinion, but you are sadly dillusional if you think other people where free expression is allowed will remain silent when something they view as quite rediculous & silly is posted.
1) I can guarantee you that there won't be peace in the ME until the Israel/Palestine issue is resolved. And terrorism won't stop as long as innocent people are being killed, tortured, humiliated etc etc.

2) Still doesn't mean that your opinion makes any sense at all. A biblical and historical site has been damaged by foreign troops. That you think that is OK is IMO sad and very dangerous.
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:08 PM
 
Originally posted by Salah al-Din:
1) I can guarantee you that there won't be peace in the ME until the Israel/Palestine issue is resolved. And terrorism won't stop as long as innocent people are being killed, tortured, humiliated etc etc.

2) Still doesn't mean that your opinion makes any sense at all. A biblical and historical site has been damaged by foreign troops. That you think that is OK is IMO sad and very dangerous.

1. sorry the idea of peace in the ME upsets you.

2. If you are going to sit by the side of the road and cry about tank tracks in the sand compared to the liberation of millions well again... it is just silly not to be expected to be exposed as being decievingly & intentionally "naive" on that one.
     
Salah al-Din  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:14 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
1. sorry the idea of peace in the ME upsets you.

2. If you are going to sit by the side of the road and cry about tank tracks in the sand compared to the liberation of millions well again... it is just silly not to be expected to be exposed as being decievingly & intentionally "naive" on that one.
1) I live and work in the ME and I've been wanting peace all my life. But at the same time I have yet to see the US actually work for peace instead of making it easier for the extremists to get a hold of our people.

2) Perhaps you should read the article again because it is much more than just a few tank tracks that is the damage. But people have already pointed this out to you so I must conclude that you don't have the slightest will to engage in an honest debate. Again that is both sad and dangerous.
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:20 PM
 
Originally posted by Salah al-Din:
1) I live and work in the ME and I've been wanting peace all my life. But at the same time I have yet to see the US actually work for peace instead of making it easier for the extremists to get a hold of our people.

2) Perhaps you should read the article again because it is much more than just a few tank tracks that is the damage. But people have already pointed this out to you so I must conclude that you don't have the slightest will to engage in an honest debate. Again that is both sad and dangerous.
1. Will you be voting in Iraq in a few weeks?


2. So had the army not laid tank tracks in the historic sands you would not have been opposed?
     
Salah al-Din  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:23 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
1. Will you be voting in Iraq in a few weeks?


2. So had the army not laid tank tracks in the historic sands you would not have been opposed?
1. I have already voted in elections in a (hopefully) soon to be state that neither has freedom nor peace. Yet we needed no external help.

2. Again. It was more than tank tracks in sands. Please try to read the article before continuing this silliness.
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:24 PM
 


Iraqis Registering to Vote
Exiled and expatriate Iraqis began registering today to vote in Iraq's first independent election in nearly 50 years.

http://nytimes.com/aponline/internat...s-Vote.html?hp

Exiled Iraqis Start Registering to Vote
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: January 17, 2005





Carlos Osorio/Associated Press
Exiled and expatriate Iraqis began registering today to vote in Iraq's first independent election in nearly 50 years.


Filed at 5:13 a.m. ET

SYDNEY, Australia (AP) -- Exiled Iraqis began registering to vote Monday in their homeland's first independent election in nearly 50 years, with dozens arriving at polling stations from Australia to Britain -- and many expressing confusion at the process.

Iraqis can vote abroad in 14 countries and there is a seven-day registration period that ends Jan. 23. Voting will begin Jan. 28 and continue until the Jan. 30 election in Iraq.

In Australia, Kurdish widow Nassima Barzani, 68, was at the head of the line at Sydney's main registration center in the western suburb of Auburn, home to an estimated 20,000 Iraqi exiles.

``In my life this is the first time I am voting for the Iraqi government, for our future,'' Barzani told reporters through her English-speaking son, Fkri. ``We have to work for our future because we want to get democracy, freedom, peace.''

Barzani fled Iraq in 1975 along with 130,000 other Kurds and spent the next two decades living as a refugee in Iran before being granted asylum in Australia 10 years ago.

She said she lost her brother, nephew and 18 other relatives when Iraqi security forces rounded up 8,000 men from her community and transported them to southern Iraq. They were never seen or heard from again, she said.

In Britain, many of the estimated 150,000 Iraqis eligible to vote were confused about the fledgling political process and unsure who to vote for.

``People keep calling us and asking us, 'Who should we vote for?''' said Jabbar Hasan of the Iraqi Community Association, a London-based group for Iraqi expats. ``We say it is up to you, you decide. It is a new experience, even for the political parties.''

Hasan, who fled Baghdad 28 years ago, also said some voters complained about the travel costs. Britain set up just three polling centers -- in Glasgow, Manchester and London -- forcing voters to travel long distances, first to register, then again to cast their ballots. Hasan said Britain should provide free transport.

``Britain has an obligation to make this process a success,'' he said.

Likewise, organizers of the Australian vote complained that as many as 5,000 Iraqis living in western and southern Australia have to travel hundreds of miles to the nearest polling center.

Earlier this month, electoral officials in Iraq announced that voting centers would be opened only in the eastern capital cities of Sydney and Melbourne and postal or absentee voting would not be allowed.

Officials estimate 1.2 million Iraqis are eligible to vote in the 14 countries, which include the United States. Voters are being asked to pick members of the 275-member Assembly, which will have a one-year mandate. Their responsibilities will include electing a president and two deputy presidents, and drafting Iraq's Constitution.

In Australia the registrants included the country's main Shiite cleric, Ayatollah Sheik Mohammad Hussein al-Ansari -- the local representative of Iraq's Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

Speaking through a translator, al-Ansari said he hoped the election would be a ``gateway for peace'' in the region.

``A peaceful future for Iraq is a peaceful future for all the world because, as we now know, all the world is affected by (what is happening) in the Middle East, especially Iraq,'' he told reporters. ``And we hope that this will be a gateway for all of us to live in peace.''

Election officials estimate that as many as 80,000 Iraqis living in Australia are eligible to participate in the election, and hope that up to 50,000 will turn out to vote. But during the polling center's first few hours of operation, only a few dozen Iraqis turned up to register.

About 80,000 Iraqis from Scandanavia are expected to register at registration stations in Sweden.

``The Iraqi election constitutes the beginning of a political process that will hopefully lead to democracy being firmly established in Iraq,'' says Minister for International Development Cooperation Carin Jaemtin.

Some 200 Iraqi Swedes, speaking a litany of Kurdish, Arabic and Swedish, were on hand to help with registering possible voters..

Other countries hosting overseas polling are Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Iran, Jordan, the Netherlands, Syria, Turkey, and United Arab Emirates.
     
Salah al-Din  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:35 PM
 
Off topic. Moderators could you please do something about this?
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:39 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
Iraqis Registering to Vote
NOT RELEVANT.

Seriously, do we have to chisel it into your skull? This thread is not about democracy, war, freedom or the Iraqi people. You seem to want to make it about these things and try to make everybody else against you, but that's not what it is.

Yes, Iraqis are registering to vote. And somewhere kids are playing in a field of daisies, and somebody's probably undergoing a traumatic experience right now. But that's not relevant. This thread is about the U.S. military's flagrant disregard for one of the most historically significant sites in the world. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
NOT RELEVANT.

Do we have to chisel it into your skull? This thread is not about democracy, war, freedom or the Iraqi people. You seem to want to make it about these things and try to make everybody else against you, but that's not what it is.

Yes, Iraqis are registering to vote. And somewhere kids are playing in a field of daisies, and somebody's probably undergoing a traumatic experience right now. But that's not relevant. This thread is about the U.S. military's flagrant disregard for one of the most historically significant sites in the world. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Because the U.S. Military has bent over backwords NOT to disregard or disrespect any of this.

Yes priceless historical artifacts & treasures get broken & destroyed in wars....again, just go look to what was lost in Europe during WW2, but no one seriously thought that saving a church in WW2 was worth losing troops to snipers...

there is a MUCH bigger picture which you are choosing to be blind to.

I am so sorry to hear it upsets you but democracy, freedom & kids playing in a field of daisies I think is worth fighting for.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:49 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I am so sorry to hear it upsets you but democracy, freedom & kids playing in a field of daisies I think is worth fighting for.
And was the intactness of Babylon a threat to the little daisy-players?
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
NYCFarmboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 02:57 PM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
And was the intactness of Babylon a threat to the little daisy-players?
So you would support the liberation of Iraq & democracy for the Iraqi people had not the tank tracks left the imprints in the sands?
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 03:04 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
So you would support the liberation of Iraq & democracy for the Iraqi people had not the tank tracks left the imprints in the sands?
Would you like me to count the number of times people in this thread have reminded you that it's more than tank tracks?

Anyway, nobody said, "The soldiers screwed up a valuable historical site, THUS THE WAR WAS WRONG" or anything like that. Once more, whether the war is right or wrong is not the topic of discussion.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2005, 04:35 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
So you would support the liberation of Iraq & democracy for the Iraqi people had not the tank tracks left the imprints in the sands?
Watch the little farmboy twist and turn to defend the indefensible.

The unnecessary destruction of historical treasures of global importance has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with deposing Saddam, supporting or opposing terrorism, free elections whereever on this planet, the tragic death of Elvis, Clinton's blowjob, Bush's inability to get it up, the tragic misinterpretation of reality purported as truth by fundamentalists of all colors, Hitler, the return of Black Jesus, the rainforest, SUVs, or the American civil rights movement.

It is simply stupidly unnecessary evidence of a lack of respect for people you are purporting to help, and has done absolutely nothing except generate dismay and hatred of Americans.

Idiot.

-s*
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:40 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,