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wei · May 28, 2004, 02:54 AM

it is fine if I leave my PB on sleep mode when I travel with it in my bag? or turn it off totally? Should I keep it sleep through the night or turn it off?

Stogieman · May 28, 2004, 03:50 AM

Placing your PowerBook in a bag or sleeve while it's in sleep mode is perfectly fine. I haven't completely powered off mine in months. It's been asleep and plugged into a wall outlet every night for the past 2 years.

Ω · May 28, 2004, 05:20 AM

Sleep = Good

No need to turn it off ever. I cycle with mine strapped to my back.

TonTaub · May 28, 2004, 08:43 AM

I just can speak for one week of usage, but the fine sleeping capability is one of the many reasons why I decided to go for a PowerBook.
I shutdown/rebooted mine only two times since I got it.
The recent reboot was when I installed the Sidetrack driver.
The next one will be when I upgrade to 10.3.4.

When sleeping all mechanics (harddisk, fans) is steady - so no problem when being carried around.

Michael.

d.fine · May 29, 2004, 03:32 AM

Good to know some of you actually do that, and don't have any problems. I've been a little afraid of transporting the PB while in sleep. The reason : my uncle's PC laptop (i know it's pc) woke while he was transporting it in its case, and got hot and when he got home and got the laptop out his keyboard was half melted because it had been on all this time. Hence I've been hestant to do the same with my PB, because the last thing I want is a melted keyboard

TonTaub · May 29, 2004, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by d.fine:
my uncle's PC laptop (i know it's pc) woke while he was transporting it in its case, and got hot and when he got home and got the laptop out his keyboard was half melted because it had been on all this time.

That's a WIntel "feature". It can happen and doesn't on a regular basis.
We have about 40 Intel notebooks (mostly Toshiba and HP/Compaq, some Acer and Samsung) in the office and I've been told that happens from time to time.
One of my direct employees experienced exactly this with the notebook awaking in the bag and getting hot (but without melting).
And it happens with Windows 2000 and XP.
We couldn't find out if it is the hardware the OS or the combination of both.

Michael.

d.fine · May 29, 2004, 12:43 PM

Well, I didn't turn of my PB today, I put it to sleep and brought it home, and viola, wake up no problems ...a couple more times and i'll feel safe, then i'll probably never turn it off again ...

rag on a muffin · May 29, 2004, 05:20 PM

most windows computers just turn off the screen, or go into suspend mode which leaves everything running, like the HD. if pc laptops go into their sleep mode, its called hibernate, and takes like 30 seconds to 2 minutes, depending on what you were doing. on macs, sleep mode is instant and safe, like hibernate on windows.

TonTaub · May 29, 2004, 07:57 PM

I saw an Acer notebook awakening from hibernation in a bag ...

NeXTLoop · May 29, 2004, 08:05 PM

Of course, one thing to remember about putting your PowerBook to sleep every night is the maintenance scripts that OS X likes to run in the early morning hours. If your PowerBooks is just sitting on your desk overnight, it would be best to let it stay awake so those scripts can run. If you don't, then you need to download MacJanitor to manually run the scripts on a regular basis.

When it comes to traveling, like everyone else who's posted, I just put mine to sleep. I never turn it off.

TonTaub · May 29, 2004, 08:26 PM

What process is launching this scripts?
I just checked and found an empty /var/cron/tabs on my system (10.3.3).

Isn't there anything like the anachron on Linux systems?

Michael.

rugerpower · May 30, 2004, 12:48 AM

i use a messenger type laptop bag for my powerbook. it provides great support for my 'book and has foam all around making it stable inside it but as i walk, the whole bag swings back and forth. is this bad?

d.fine · May 30, 2004, 03:06 AM

What scripts ? Where script ? I have never heard or read about that ? What do these scripts do ?
I'd feel a lot less comfortable leaving the PB ON all night than in sleep.

I don't think a swinging bag is a big problem, as long as it doesn't hit anything underway ...

RayX · 06:08 PM

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
Of course, one thing to remember about putting your PowerBook to sleep every night is the maintenance scripts that OS X likes to run in the early morning hours. If your PowerBooks is just sitting on your desk overnight, it would be best to let it stay awake so those scripts can run. If you don't, then you need to download MacJanitor to manually run the scripts on a regular basis.

This behavior has changed since 10.3.4, but it may not effect cron scripts that you are referring to. Someone might like to confirm whether or not that is the case?

"Addresses an issue in which scheduled items, such as automated backups or Software Update checks, may not work if the computer is asleep at the scheduled time. With this update, the schedule will run once the computer wakes from sleep."

Edit: Appears to only be for Software Update, etc.

d.fine · May 30, 2004, 03:48 AM

Question : when putting your PB to sleep for the rest of the night, what to do with external devices ? Like a LaCie HD , does it go to 'sleep' by itself ? or do I better disconnect things like that for the night ? Or a self-powered USB hub ? It stays active as long as the PB isn't completely off ... thx

Ω · May 30, 2004, 04:59 AM

I personally eject them first.

If you just sleep and then later disconnect, it gives this device was not unmounted correctly warning.

Therefore I unmount them, and it means I can unplug them at my leisure when my PB is asleep. I also think if you wake your baby up it will automatically remount them if you have not plugged them in.

I don't do this very often, but I think it is correct. No doubt if I am wrong someone will correct me!

Drakino · May 30, 2004, 02:36 PM

PC systems have a "Sleep" and "Hibernate" mode. Sleep on a PC is identical to the way the Powerbook does it. Most everything is shut down except power to the memory and monitoring device to read input from a keyboard or lid sensor. Windows and OS X go to sleep pretty quickly. However, Windows takes much longer to recover from sleep, and not all PC hardware can even enter sleep mode.

Hibernation takes a bit longer to enter, since the system writes all memory to a file on the hard disk then kills all power to the system. Upon power up, the system had to complete POST, start hardware, and then begin reading that file back into memory when the OS starts to boot. Some systems do hibernation from the BIOS, but not many, and the rest rely on Windows.

Build quality may affect how it reads a lid sensor, or if a key contacts the screen. Those factors could easially cause a PC laptop to wake up. Since Macs are engineered better then the majority of PC laptops, they don't suffer the same issues. Things like using a magnetic sensor for the lid ensures that even if the latch does spring open for some reason, if the lid is shut by being kept in a bag, the laptop will stay in sleep mode.

Though, I did buy a screen protector for my Powerbook at the Apple store, and found that my system would wake up. Seems it wasn't trimmed exactly for the new Aluminum 15 inch model, thus causing the lid sensor to provide open readings. As luck would have it though, I lost it sometime on my last vacation, so I'll look to buy a new one soon that hopefully won't have the same issue. I enjoyed just letting my system sleep every time I wasn't using it.

wei · May 30, 2004, 10:24 PM

great, cool, lots of ppl share their experience. and now i'm pretty sure to keep my PB in sleep mode is nothing wrong (as lots of others is doing it).

I'm asking because my buddy's PC notebook wake up in his bag when he travel around and cause some damage to the harddisk (physical bad sector)... quess that wouldn't be my worry now.

krux` · May 30, 2004, 10:52 PM

Why not put your computer to use for SETI or folding@home or something like that??

wei · May 30, 2004, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by krux`:
Why not put your computer to use for SETI or folding@home or something like that??

huh? mind to tell me what is "SETI" & "folding@home" ??

krux` · May 30, 2004, 11:38 PM

Their programs that utilize idle time on your computer for a cause. For instance on my computer i have the settings for 2 minutes, that is if my computer is idle for 2 minutes, the program opens and processes data, using your CPU, when i get back on it turns off and i go about my business

Folding@Home is used for folding proteins, and finding cures for diseases etc.

SETI is Search for Extraterrestial Intelligence. SETI takes information from their Radio Telescopes (some of the largest in the world) and what is left is raw datat to process, and they divide this up among computers around the world to process, and send back. http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

wei · May 30, 2004, 11:42 PM

now i get what you mean. thanks, and sorry for the lame question

Dr.Michael · May 31, 2004, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by wei:
it is fine if I leave my PB on sleep mode when I travel with it in my bag? or turn it off totally? Should I keep it sleep through the night or turn it off?

I cannot recommend sleep mode when you travel. All my powerbooks did awake froom time to time from sleep (for a few seconds). This means the hd can spin up an can be damaged when the powerbook is transported.

So I did not find the sleepmode to be 100% reliable. The least thing that you should do is switch of lidwake. That means the powerbook will not awake if you open the lid. I think the gentle moves of the lid are the main cause that the powerbooks somtimes wake up unexpectedly.

In the terminal type: sudo pmset lidwake 0

Switch it on again with: sudo pmset lidwake 1

You get more info with: man pmset

And plug off all of your usb connections. If they are removed or put in and the powerbook is in sleepmode it will awake. Also if this happens accidentially in your bag.

Michael

d.fine · May 31, 2004, 07:06 AM

Thats a good idea, + it works, I just tried it out. Feels safer ...
What I did notice is that the sleep light changes when the lid is opened with the PB still in sleep, it glows less bright ...

iMan · May 31, 2004, 05:51 PM

I never shut my 1 GHz TiBok off, execpt when transporting it.

NeXTLoop · May 31, 2004, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by RayX:
This behavior has changed since 10.3.4, but it may not effect cron scripts that you are referring to. Someone might like to confirm whether or not that is the case?

That doesn't appear to have anything to do with the maintenance scripts that X runs. The changes in 10.3.4 seem to be mostly restricted to the Software Update.

Basically, like all flavors of UNIX, OS X runs maintenance scripts on a regular basis to clean out old log and cache files. Some of these scripts are run every day, some weekly (on Sunday), and some on monthly (on the first of the month). In each case, the scripts are run between 2:00 and 5:00 AM.

Where you run into a problem is if you don't allow OS X to run these scripts. Eventually these log files can grow to the point of eating gigs of disk space. If you are in the habit of putting your computer to sleep, or turning it off, then you need to download MacJanitor so that you can run the scripts manually (unless of course you feel comfortable running them straight from the Terminal). They don't need to be run every day, but definitely on a regular basis.

psisquared · Jun 1, 2004, 01:58 AM

It's been my experience that USB connections only wake up a Powerbook if power is also connected. It's kind of nice actually, because I often pick up my sleeping powerbook from my desk to carry it somewhere and as long as I unplug the power first before the mouse the machine stays sleeping how I want .

Originally posted by Dr.Michael:

And plug off all of your usb connections. If they are removed or put in and the powerbook is in sleepmode it will awake. Also if this happens accidentially in your bag.

Michael

d.fine · Jun 1, 2004, 04:15 AM

Is it possible to have the PB wake on itself, run these maintenance scripts and then go back to sleep ? I don't see the point in leaving the PB on all night to let it run scripts that might take 10 to 20 minutes, seems like a waste.
And is it possible to change the time at which these scripts are supposed to run ? Like f.e. 18h instead of 02h ? The point being that OS X runs these scripts by itself at the scheduled time, instead of installing a prog and doing it yourself, since the PB is never turned off.

JKT · Jun 1, 2004, 06:50 AM

An alternative/companion app to MacJanitor is Cronnix. This is an UI app which makes it easy to alter cron scripts. You can use it to edit the System cron scripts so that they run at more sensible times (e.g. when you are actually likely to be using the machine/have it awake). Keep MacJanitor around, though, so that you can run the scripts whenever.

Edit for the poster above - download Cronnix, launch it, go to the File menu and Open System Crontab. Click the Hour fields and alter to a more useful time to you for each (I recommend retaining the hour long separation between each though, and also note that you should enter 24 hour clock times). Under the File menu, select Save. You will be prompted for your admin password before the altered crontab will be saved.

d.fine · Jun 1, 2004, 09:29 AM

That looks good, thank you for the link JKT !

TonTaub · Jun 1, 2004, 04:03 PM

Today it happend, that my PoBo didn't awake.
A friendly window appeared and explained in many languages that I should reboot the machine by pressing the power button.

Sad. My PoBo was asleep over night and after 30minutes of work this morning again asleep until the evening.

Does this happen occasionally or rather rarely?

Michael.

d.fine · Jun 1, 2004, 04:10 PM

Cronnix is a handy app, plus it works too ...

I'm sorry to hear that TonTaub, but I haven't experienced that ...

Dr.Michael · Jun 1, 2004, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by psisquared:
It's been my experience that USB connections only wake up a Powerbook if power is also connected.

Oops, what kind of Powerbook do you have? Mine always awakes if I plug in or plug off the usb mouse in sleep mode.

reemas · Jun 2, 2004, 12:52 PM

i know people have said the hard drive is OFF when the pb is sleeping, but i was recently transferring a LARGE volume of files and accidentally put it to sleep. i opened it a few mins later to found that it had significantly progressed... it it was transferring while in sleep mode.

is that normal?

TonTaub · Jun 2, 2004, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by reemas:
is that normal?

Was this pulsing light on?
I noticed, depending on the jobs or programs that are running, that sometimes it takes quite some while to fall asleep.

Michael.

d.fine · Jun 2, 2004, 01:31 PM

Doesn't closing the lid force the PB into sleep ? I usualy get the impression that when I close the lid, everything stops, and the PB goes to sleep. When I open it progs like Fire/MSN have to sign in again, so even those components go to 'sleep' ... and iTunes f.e. is on Pause.

TonTaub · Jun 2, 2004, 01:41 PM

As far as I can tell the answer would be "usually yes".

But a hanging process like Finder when connected to a server may cause the PoBo not going to sleep.
The lid was closed but power was on and the pulsing light wasn't there.

At least that's what I experienced. Hence my question about the light which is IMHO a pretty reliable indicator.

Michael.

reemas · Jun 2, 2004, 01:41 PM

the light was flashing on.
it was still transferring files. in fact i beleive any one fo you could try it and it will continue the process.

so really at that point it wasn't sleeping. and moving it around could ahve been dangerous.

d.fine · Jun 2, 2004, 01:45 PM

Granted.
1 - I never move the PB unless the 'sleep' light is flashing
2 - Even connected to a server my PB goes to sleep, and when awakened it will say that the connection was lost ...

Lancer409 · Jun 22, 2004, 03:32 AM

anything definitive from apple? i'm a paranoid one i guess .. use to using pc's .. maybe that's why.

wei · Jun 22, 2004, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by Lancer409:
anything definitive from apple? i'm a paranoid one i guess .. use to using pc's .. maybe that's why.

same here. that's why i posted the question. anyway, I'm sticking with what most ppl do. sleep it. i couldnt locate any info from Apple about "how safe is sleep mode". They only mention "If you carry your PowerBook in a bag or briefcase, make sure that there are no loose items (such as paper clips or coins) that could accidentally get inside the computer through an opening such as the optical drive slot."

d.fine · Jun 22, 2004, 04:04 AM

Well, I've been putting my PB to sleep since I first read this thread (29-05) and have had no problems since ... no unexpected wake-ups, nothing. I did change the PM settings so that the PB doesn't wake up when I open the lid, just as a safety precaution. Works like a charm

TonTaub · Jun 22, 2004, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by d.fine:

Granted.
> 1 - I never move the PB unless the 'sleep' light is flashing

The light obviously is a pretty safe indicator - when it doesn't go to sleep it doesn't flash.

> 2 - Even connected to a server my PB goes to sleep, and when awakened it will say that the connection was lost ...

Of course that depends on the type of connection and the type of client. I was referring to a hanging Finder. If the Finder is ok going to sleep is not a problem at all.

Michael.

reemas · Jun 22, 2004, 10:50 AM

how did you make it so the powerbook stays asleep when you open the lid?

TonTaub · Jun 22, 2004, 11:02 AM

look here:

Originally posted by Dr.Michael:

In the terminal type: sudo pmset lidwake 0

Switch it on again with: sudo pmset lidwake 1

You get more info with: man pmset

And plug off all of your usb connections. If they are removed or put in and the powerbook is in sleepmode it will awake. Also if this happens accidentially in your bag.

;-) Michael.

Lancer409 · Jun 22, 2004, 11:54 AM

more details please? i'm not a osx person. i dunno much about terminal

d.fine · Jun 22, 2004, 12:28 PM

Under Applications > Utilities you'll find Terminal, there type what TonTaub posted earlier to turn off lidwake ...
type 'man pmset' and you'll see more info about what pmset does, and how to use it. Under help in OSX you'll find some info about Terminal also ...

Lancer409 · Jul 3, 2004, 03:36 AM

i just turned of lidwake .. it does work .. and i feel more secure letting it nap in my bag as i run around the city

Lancer409 · Jul 3, 2004, 03:37 AM

doh .. oh yeah .. ps .. Thanks Dr Mike ... great bedside manners to go with that big beefy brain of yours =) .. hehe

Happy Fourth of July folks .. and ... for those non-american guys around the globe .. sorry

iluvmypowerbook · Jul 3, 2004, 05:15 AM

I'm obviously out of sync with everyone else here

Whenever I'm finished using my pBook I shut it down. I love the idea of sleeping him all the time, but most of the time my pBook is using ac power not the battery.

So what do all of you do when transferring from ac power to battery power and visa versa when your pBook is sleeping? Do you just plug and unplug the power adapter during sleep?