[Nelsun]

A couple of questions for G5 users. I just upgraded my home office system to a new G5 2.7ghz Dualie with 23" Cinema Display. This will be be my first G5, my current Mac is a 1.33 17" Powerbook that is used for my work with Adobe products and a CAD application, Ashlar Vellum Cobalt. Works great for my needs as I work as a contractor at the client's location.

I was just made an offer to join that company and in discussions about computers, there is a possibility I can have a new G5 there. However, it is a Dell PC company. My new boss is becoming more open to use Macs since I have integrated so well without an issue, except I can't use MS Outlook or Project. But Entourage works.

The big question for me is that if I get a G5 at work, I won't likely be able to swing the cost of the system I just bought myself. And I understand since he feels he can get a Dell for less. So I am looking at the cost to build a Mac system he and I can live with that compares well with the cost of a Dell system. Likely a G5 2.0 or 2.3 and in place of an Apple Cinema display, a 3rd party LCD (Or maybe even a 20" Apple display). So if I get a 2.0 or 2.3 G5, can I really "feel" a huge difference between those 2 options and my new 2.7ghz G5? I know that the faster processor will definitely help on the CAD application, I suspect Photoshop and Illustrator will feel it less. (I saw the numbers on Bare Feats, incremental increases)

As for the second question, I read on another thread that some USB hubs may have issues with Tiger? I have a Belkin 4 port hub I am using on my old G4 Tower home system. I could buy a new USB hub for the new G5 2.7 to be safe. Just curious.

Thanks for any insights. Nelsun

[chris v]

Dual 2.0 G5 here, no USB hub problems at all in 10.4. Photoshop flies on this thing--it's like Illustrator 8 in OS 9. Illustrator CS (11.0) has an annoying lag when invoking a new document, or an open/save dialog. It's not huge-- usually 2-5 seconds, but the problem appears to be pretty widespread. No ideas about CAD software. InDesign, GoLive and Quark are all working speedily and W/O issues for me, so far.

If you're going to be using Photoshop a lot, I'd say go for a 2.0 or 2.3, and get as much RAM as possible. 2 to 2.5 GB seems to be the sweet spot, where PS really picks up steam. Much more doesn't make a big difference. I'm willing to bet PS would be faster on a 2.0 G5 with 3 gigs of RAM than it would be in a 2.7 G5 with 512 mb.

[lilrabbit129]

If you have to, skimp on the LCD. Get a nice 20" Widescreen Dell LCD. They're very nice, not quite as nice as the ACDs, but at half the price, nice enough.

[Nelsun]

Thanks for the replies. I finally had a chance to set up my new 2.7 yesterday and it does scream! The advice of going for a 2.0 or 2.3 ghz G5 with as much RAM as possible and going with a 3rd party display all makes great sense. Will see what happens!

[asergi]

Think about getting a Dual 2 or Dual 2.5 leftover. The DP 2 is a particularly good deal in my opinion because you get better expansion (PCIx, 8 ram slots) than the current version for slightly less $. You give up a slightly better video card and superdrive, though.

[flanders]

You won't give up the superdrive with the revb 2.0; you just won't get the dual-layer drive. And for the record I think the older 2.0/2.5 are a nice deal right now if you can find them.

[ideasculptor]

Don't forget that you can take a sizeable chunk off the cost of the ACD by buying a Dell 24" LCD (nicer screen display, but less stylish). Depending upon when you buy and how nice your salesperson is, they can be had for significantly less than $1000 and definitely less than $1100. Between stepping down to a slightly slower processor speed and the Dell monitor, I would think you are well into Dell pricing territory, unless your boss is wanting to buy some cheap $999 office PC from Dell.

[Nelsun]

ideasculpter- Thanks. The thing is, he's a Mac user at home! I did a quick build up of a PC on Dell's site so that I can walk into a meeting armed with numbers to work out a deal on a Mac. What I ended up with was a Dell 670 Precision Workstation which is what the others use. I set it up with a 3ghz processor (dual), CDRW drive, 2 gb RAM, 250 GB HD, and a 20" LCD. The thing came out to $4300 or so! SO I've either over built the Dell, or I can honestly say I can set myself up on a 2.3 ghz G5 with maybe a 20" Apple Cinema display for $3200.00. No blue tooth or Airport card. And I'll buy the RAM myself! I have to understand better the specs of the Dell systems in the office to get a better idea of what the PC will have in it, plus I don't have any experience building a PC.

[Nelsun]

Okay, thought I'd let you know that my request for a G5 2.3 and Apple display at work came through! Through a slight snafu, I got a 20" Apple monitor as originally requested. It was a very nice surprise because my bosses boss said no as it wouldn't be fair to a co-worker who also wanted a Cinema Dispaly, but didn't get one. And I agreed.

Haven't used it a lot yet, but have noticed that the 2.3 dualie is very quiet. Though the office often has a lot of noise going on and music, I have not noticed the fans revving much compared to my 2.7 dualie at home!

[Todd Madson]

2.5 and 2.7s are liquid cooled in addition to the nine fans. I'm told, though have never heard,
that the liquid cooled models were slightly louder.

The 2.3 should work fine for you I'd suspect, a nice setup for a workplace computer for sure.

What's the job and what will you be doing with the equipment?

[Nelsun]

Thanks Todd. After I read your post, I did a check on the Apple site to be sure, but as far as I can tell, the 2.3 is not liquid cooled. Which could account for the lower fan noise.

As for the job, I'm an industrial designer, so I'll be doing CAD and Photoshop and Illustrator work mainly on it. As well as the MS Office suite of tools. So yes, I think I'll be fine with it! Of course some of my Dell colleagues have threaten to take my monitor!

[gangster]

Originally Posted by asergi

Think about getting a Dual 2 or Dual 2.5 leftover. The DP 2 is a particularly good deal in my opinion because you get better expansion (PCIx, 8 ram slots) than the current version for slightly less $. You give up a slightly better video card and superdrive, though.

where do you get these "leftovers"?

[crooner]

Originally Posted by gangster

where do you get these "leftovers"?

Many, many online (and some brick and mortar) resellers have back stock of discontinued models. Even Apple sells them at times. Check the usual larger Mac-centric mail order outfits.

[mousehouse]

Originally Posted by Nelsun

Okay, thought I'd let you know that my request for a G5 2.3 and Apple display at work came through! Through a slight snafu, I got a 20" Apple monitor as originally requested. It was a very nice surprise because my bosses boss said no as it wouldn't be fair to a co-worker who also wanted a Cinema Dispaly, but didn't get one. And I agreed.

Haven't used it a lot yet, but have noticed that the 2.3 dualie is very quiet. Though the office often has a lot of noise going on and music, I have not noticed the fans revving much compared to my 2.7 dualie at home!

after another day of work, do you still conclude that the DP2.3 makes less fan-noise than the DP2.7?

TIA

[Nelsun]

Hey TIA-

I'm actually taking a long weekend, so I haven't had a chance to use it since Wednesday. I'll prepare a CAD file that I know revs up the fans on the 2.7 and bring it to work and see how it reacts.

Nelson

[mousehouse]

I'm curious! end of August I'll be purchasing a PM. Budget-wise it's going to be a DP2.3 (okok, and I don't yet have enough confidence in the grape-juice cooling system) but if it makes for a quieter machine even at higher clock speeds I might be tempted to try to renegotiate the budget here at home with my wife

[crooner]

Originally Posted by mousehouse

I'm curious! end of August I'll be purchasing a PM. Budget-wise it's going to be a DP2.3 (okok, and I don't yet have enough confidence in the grape-juice cooling system) but if it makes for a quieter machine even at higher clock speeds I might be tempted to try to renegotiate the budget here at home with my wife

Grab the grape, man!

[Nelsun]

TIA-

So you know, I took a CAD file that I created at home on my 2.7DP G5 and tried it here on my work 2.3DP G5. This file is a CAD model that has some modestly shapely form but a lot of reflective surfaces which I know will call for the full processor power, at least on the G4 systems. It's highly math intensive processes. The proceess I am asking the G5 to do is a photorealistic screen rendering of the view I see. (The application is Ashlar Vellum Cobalt)

On the 2.7 G5, this takes about 1 minute 30-ish second. I should have timed it. During the first 25 seconds of rendering, the fans kick in and blow, and wind down slowly till it stops.

On the 2.3 G5, during the same operation, there was no call for the fans to rev up. And the time for the operation was roughly the same, not huge time difference.

On both systems, the Processor perfromance setting in Energy Saver was set to automatic. I saw no difference in the fan activity on the 2.7 when I changed those settings.

But this noise issue to which you and others refer, is it this clicking sound that I read about here? I don't know if I have that or not. If I do, and I suspect I do on my 2.7 G5, it's not that bad and becomes just background noise. What I really notice are the fans revving up, even sometimes when I open a webpage. But I notice it less and less these days, noticing the fans rev up that is.

So what is the noise issue? At any rate, TIA, go for the 2.3, if I am correct that it is not liquid cooled, then the fan reving up to blow through the 2.7's cooling system won't be there.

Nelsun

[mousehouse]

Thanks for the test. If I'm not mistaken the DP2.3 will have the same fans as the DP2.7 but the fans in the DP2.7 apparantly have to work harder to keep it all cooled - despite the grapejuice