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There's fewer Mexican rapists inside our borders now (Page 4)
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subego
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Apr 6, 2017, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I think it's a little simpler than conspiracy, but point taken.

I basically see it as thus: Trump Admin comes in, says "Meat's back in the menu boys!" and leaves the room. Doesn't come back to check up on them. I don't see that as a 'conspiracy'.
That sounds a lot more similar to what I'm saying, and different than...

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
So the short answer is I think behind-the-scenes they've been told differently than what they're presenting to us.
Is it possible I've nudged you closer to my argument?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 6, 2017, 11:18 AM
 
I would say I'm open to both possibilities but certainly yours is simpler. Taking my own advice I shouldn't ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by indifference.
     
subego
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Apr 6, 2017, 12:18 PM
 
That's my main argument.

I certainly wouldn't put a more aggressively nasty attitude past them, but that ironically makes it less likely.

Let's not ignore the literal elephant in the room. Trump has taken the things in a nasty enough direction not a single one of us batted an eye at the thought of these types of deportations being the official policy. It wasn't until over 80 posts in before someone bothered to check.

That tells me they could have just revoked the exception memo, like they've been doing to what seems like most Obama policy. No one would care... or more specifically, as demonstrated by this thread, anyone who would care is already assuming it's his official policy.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 9, 2017, 07:28 PM
 
This is the shit I'm talking about: https://www.wsj.com/articles/after-2...ted-1491443231
Attorneys for Mr. Beristain had asked an immigration judge to rescind his removal order and to stay his removal. Attorneys had also filed a habeas petition challenging his detention.

But before his cases could be heard by a judge, ICE officials took him from a detention facility in Texas and dropped him off at the U.S.-Mexico border and had him walk across into Juarez, Mexico, his attorneys said in a statement.
Was this SOP under Obama? Or is this ICE of the chain? Would it be reasonable to assume this kind of shit won't stop until they get slapped on the wrist by the judicial system?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 20, 2017, 10:10 AM
 
     
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Apr 21, 2017, 01:26 AM
 
*throws another on the pile*
Is Fairfield woman's deportation a sign of things to come?
"As Secretary Kelly has stated, ICE will no longer exempt classes or categories of removable aliens from potential enforcement. All of those in violation of immigration laws may be subject to immigration arrest, detention, and if found removable by final order, removal from the United States," Khaalid Walls, a Detroit-based spokesman for ICE, said in a statement.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 21, 2017, 01:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Quoting since I'm no longer on a phone:
The Department of Homeland Security reversed itself Wednesday saying that a young man, identified by USA TODAY as the first DREAMer to be deported by the Trump administration, had valid protective status despite its earlier claim.

On Tuesday, the department said its records showed the protective status of Juan Manuel Montes, 23, expired in 2015. On Wednesday, the department said that status was in fact valid until 2018.
     
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Apr 21, 2017, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Quoting since I'm no longer on a phone:
The article I read states that according to ICE, his status was revoked when he violated the terms of it. He's claiming that he didn't, and was forced to Mexico involuntarily by Border Patrol before trying to jump a fence back in. From what I've read, it should be easy to verify the story one way or the other, so at least for now the jury is still out on this one.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 21, 2017, 04:36 PM
 
It says they reversed that stance, and he had valid protective status. No verification needed.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 21, 2017, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
For instance, how many examples we need before a pattern can be established is a good question. You tell me. Making allowances for underreporting, a certain percentage of ICE employees being assholes, along with a certain percentage failing to sweat the details (gloss over the wrong paragraph, and the exceptions may as well not exist), how many examples do we need to start throwing around allegations their word doesn't match their actions?
Does 5,441 work?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.4dc37c453c05
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested 21,362 immigrants, mostly convicted criminals, from January through mid-March, compared to 16,104 during the same period last year, according to statistics requested by The Washington Post.

Arrests of immigrants with no criminal records more than doubled to 5,441, the clearest sign yet that President Trump has ditched his predecessor’s protective stance toward most of the 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.
In Trump's defense, it appears Obama was just as bad if not worse in his asshole years.


I also think as far as noncriminal percentage of total arrests, its a toss up between 2014 and 2017.

---

Overall, deportations are down by 1.2 percent, to 54,741 in January, February and March, compared to the same period last year. Elzea said it can take time to remove someone from the United States, but the number of noncriminals deported is higher this year, while the number of criminals who were deported fell. Despite his pledge to send criminals packing, Trump has struggled to get countries such as China to take their citizens back.
Advocates for immigrants say they also criticized Obama as the “deporter in chief” and waged a national campaign to create sanctuary cities to shield immigrants from deportation.

But they said Obama sought to avoid deporting longtime immigrants with roots in their communities and American-born children. He also lobbied Congress to create a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants and granted work permits to more than 700,000 undocumented immigrants who came to the United States as children.

And in a November 2014 memo, Homeland Security chief Jeh Johnson restricted immigration arrests mainly to criminals and those who recently crossed the U.S. border, and immigration arrests plunged.
In January, he issued executive orders that made all undocumented immigrants at risk of deportation. In February, Trump’s press secretary said the “shackles” were off immigration and border agents, whose unions backed Trump in the election.
     
subego
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Apr 21, 2017, 08:47 PM
 
What percentage of that 5,411 qualify for an exception?

Lack of a criminal record doesn't grant the exception. The main vectors are being a minor, or having legal ties to an American citizen (marriage and/or parentage).
( Last edited by subego; Apr 21, 2017 at 10:04 PM. )
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 24, 2017, 02:29 PM
 
I'm under the impression that the bill of goods sold was prioritizing the removal of criminals. That's what this thread has been about since the OP, right?
     
subego
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Apr 24, 2017, 04:18 PM
 
The bill of goods are people on the exception list getting deported.

The two key stories... the one from the OP, and the one with the woman who voted Trump, were being granted exceptions.

That's what's so ignoble about the deportations, right? They were handed out to people making the ICE check-ins required to maintain the exception.
     
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Apr 24, 2017, 04:42 PM
 
Okay, that's fair. Though you missed the third example above. The one where they deported a guy before a judge could weigh in.

And of course the guy who was deported but then they said had a legal exception not to be.
     
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Apr 24, 2017, 05:40 PM
 
This isn't helping: ‘We’ll See’: Sessions on Whether DREAMers Will Be Deported | Law News
Sessions, who appeared Sunday on This Week, reemphasized the president’s policy that deportation will focus on people who commit crimes in the states, but he didn’t think DREAMers should necessarily get more protection from removal.

“So they can rest easy?” host George Stephanopoulos said about young immigrants benefitting from DACA.

“We’ll see,” said Sessions, who pointed out Homeland Security, not the Justice Department, had primary jurisdiction. “I believe that anyone who enters the country unlawfully is subject to being deported. However, we’ve don’t have the ability to roundup everybody and there’s no plans to do that.”
I could see you highlighting the last paragraph as bolstering your case, however.
     
subego
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Apr 26, 2017, 02:47 PM
 
Well, it's both.

The exceptions are discretionary. The idea they can get yanked isn't new.

In terms of overall policy, I stand by what I said earlier.

There has been no agency wide directive to dispense with the exceptions.

Agents who are otherwise meeting their quota can be as magnanimous with exceptions as they see fit.

Agents who are cocksuckers will be allowed to continue as such as long as they don't get it made into a national story, or violate the prime directive to use resources judiciously.


I'll repeat though, even though this policy is "hands-off", the result will be net **********.


I guess cocksuckers is okay but ********** is not. This is singleist.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 26, 2017, 02:57 PM
 
Well, if they're discretionary then they could have changed that discretion from erring on the side of letting people slide to erring toward bringing anyone in. Or is that conspiratorial?
     
subego
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Apr 26, 2017, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Well, if they're discretionary then they could have changed that discretion from erring on the side of letting people slide to erring toward bringing anyone in. Or is that conspiratorial?
My instincts tell me it's conspiratorial.

This directive would need to make its way to thousands of people, pretty much guaranteeing there would be a leak.

Doing nothing is already a negative feedback loop. People with legit exceptions are rightfully scared to check-in with ICE, which can then be used grounds for getting the exception revoked.

However, both of these pale compared to the following: they could have done it publicly, and no one would have been surprised.

The exception is the Trump supporter wife who was roundly mocked. She was mocked because everybody here assumed they had done it publicly.

I keep saying, this thread went on for 80+ posts under the assumption this was their public policy. What is motivating them to do it Secret Squirrel style?
     
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Apr 26, 2017, 03:57 PM
 
You've forgotten about this post:
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
     
subego
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Apr 26, 2017, 04:41 PM
 
The memo in question is superseded by the exception memos. The memo in question states this explicitly. This is the same memo we've been talking about the entire time.

That the memo says everyone else is fair game isn't under contention.
     
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Apr 26, 2017, 05:10 PM
 
Memo memo memo.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Apr 26, 2017, 06:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The memo in question is superseded by the exception memos. The memo in question states this explicitly. This is the same memo we've been talking about the entire time.

That the memo says everyone else is fair game isn't under contention.
For the sake of my clarity, which memo supersedes which memo?
     
subego
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Apr 27, 2017, 02:31 AM
 
Exception memo supersedes meat is on the menu memo.
     
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May 6, 2017, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Exception memo supersedes meat is on the menu memo.
Yeah, which came out when, made by who?
     
subego
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May 6, 2017, 02:23 PM
 
Exception memo one: DHS (Napolitano) June 2012
Exception memo two: DHS (Johnson) November 2014
Meat memo: DHS (Kelly) February 2017


Edit: and to put this into the context of the original question, the article from the OP references the 2017 memo for the changes in immigration policy, the Trump supporter wife article references the 2017 memo, and the article I "forgot" references the same 2017 memo.

All these articles are discussing the same thing. My response is the same to all of them, which is to reference the earlier memos. The earlier memos are relevant because the first paragraph of the 2017 memo states "these earlier memos are still in effect".
( Last edited by subego; May 6, 2017 at 03:54 PM. )
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 15, 2017, 05:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Exception memo one: DHS (Napolitano) June 2012
Exception memo two: DHS (Johnson) November 2014
Meat memo: DHS (Kelly) February 2017


Edit: and to put this into the context of the original question, the article from the OP references the 2017 memo for the changes in immigration policy, the Trump supporter wife article references the 2017 memo, and the article I "forgot" references the same 2017 memo.

All these articles are discussing the same thing. My response is the same to all of them, which is to reference the earlier memos. The earlier memos are relevant because the first paragraph of the 2017 memo states "these earlier memos are still in effect".
That's an important thing to note, but call me cynical if I'm not surprised if some agents read the Meat memo (available on pornhub) and threw nuance out the window. Lacking nuance, one might see them as contradicting.
     
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May 17, 2017, 01:26 PM
 
https://twitter.com/elisefoley/statu...86962188169221
ICE arrested more than twice as many noncriminals in Trump’s first ~100 days than in the same period last year bit.ly/2qwLSB3
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 19, 2017, 02:29 PM
 
DHS is using stingrays to hunt illegals. Jesus.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ant/101859616/
     
subego
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May 19, 2017, 03:27 PM
 
I assume anyone who has a Stingray uses it for whatever they can get warrants for.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 19, 2017, 03:41 PM
 
That's when they bother to get warrants for it's use. IIRC there were some police departments using them without warrants.
     
subego
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May 19, 2017, 04:18 PM
 
How recently? IIUC, some big change happened in 2014.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 19, 2017, 05:02 PM
 
Court ruling?
     
subego
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May 20, 2017, 12:10 PM
 
Yes. Though I was skimming rapidly so I may have missed important details.
     
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May 29, 2017, 06:56 PM
 
We are not doing well as a country.

     
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May 29, 2017, 07:36 PM
 
Many on the Left have turned rabid and the media is trying to set fire to whatever they can. Their tantrum over losing the presidential election is turning into a war, and I fear many people are going to be killed before long.
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May 29, 2017, 10:15 PM
 
When a privileged minority keeps electing assholes, and those assholes keep being bigger and bigger assholes, sooner or later you're going to get some pushback.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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May 29, 2017, 10:28 PM
 
As pro-illegal immigrant as I am, I feel my hands get tied once they aggressively declare their status.

Holding up a sign which says "I am illegal" is going to get a call to ICE, and there's nothing I can do about it except suggest they leave the aggression to citizen proxies.
     
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May 30, 2017, 12:16 AM
 
When the "progressive" minority keeps electing elitist assholes, and those assholes constantly ignore the will of the people (presumably for their own good), you eventually end up with someone like Donald Trump being elected. Trump is the pushback, and it'll become much more aggressive (and permanent) if the "progressive" minority doesn't back off.
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May 30, 2017, 12:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As pro-illegal immigrant as I am, I feel my hands get tied once they aggressively declare their status.

Holding up a sign which says "I am illegal" is going to get a call to ICE, and there's nothing I can do about it except suggest they leave the aggression to citizen proxies.
I feel like the rep calling ICE rather than letting capitol security take care of it is a bit of a dick move.

Multiple democrats assaulting or threatening to is so far over the line I can't believe it. Maybe there's a history here, but that doesn't excuse how much they escalated the situation.
     
subego
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May 30, 2017, 01:34 AM
 
The amount of sympathy I have for the Democrats depends on how legit their story is.

The claim is they believed Rinaldi called ICE because the protesters were Hispanic.

I can see someone losing their shit over that. Especially if the message was delivered in a "ha ha, **** you" kinda way.


Rinaldi is clearly a dick, however if his actual desire was to deport people, that's outside of security's wheelhouse.
     
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May 30, 2017, 01:58 AM
 
Another data point... ICE claims they were never called.
     
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May 30, 2017, 05:14 AM
 
Great troll.
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May 30, 2017, 01:01 PM
 
When keeping it real goes wrong
     
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May 30, 2017, 08:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
When the "progressive" minority keeps electing elitist assholes, and those assholes constantly ignore the will of the people (presumably for their own good), you eventually end up with someone like Donald Trump being elected. Trump is the pushback, and it'll become much more aggressive (and permanent) if the "progressive" minority doesn't back off.
You know the progressives are the majority right? And as long as education continues to improve, that majority will keep getting bigger. Thats why Trump hired DeVos.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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May 30, 2017, 11:56 PM
 
If progressives were a majority we would have president Sanders.

The left has a population majority, but being left doesn't mean being progressive.
     
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May 31, 2017, 03:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
You know the progressives are the majority right?
No they aren't.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
If progressives were a majority we would have president Sanders.

The left has a population majority, but being left doesn't mean being progressive.
^^ Exactly. Progressives (the far Left) are roughly the same in population as Conservatives (the far Right), but the largest portion of Americans inhabit the middle (liberals, libertarians, centrists) and make up our quite diverse Moderate electorate (myself included).
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May 31, 2017, 09:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If progressives were a majority we would have president Sanders.
Oh? I thought that was a fix?


Originally Posted by subego View Post
The left has a population majority, but being left doesn't mean being progressive.
I like to think of the term literally. If you aren't on the right, you're progressive because you favour progressive thinking over the ass-backwards kind.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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May 31, 2017, 09:24 AM
 
We have a term for the left. It's "the left".

Why would we want to make "progressive" mean "the left"?

We need two words which describe both Hillary and Bernie, but no words to distinguish between them?
     
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May 31, 2017, 09:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
^^ Exactly. Progressives (the far Left) are roughly the same in population as Conservatives (the far Right), but the largest portion of Americans inhabit the middle (liberals, libertarians, centrists) and make up our quite diverse Moderate electorate (myself included).
Considering elections tend to be decided by a handful of states, that implies most people are fairly comfortably settled one way or the other.
As for you, you know I have my doubts about your purported centrism. It feels weird to disagree with someone about their own political belief but I've cited the evidence before, seems pointless to do so again. What I find most interesting is your desire to be thought of as more centrist than your views seem to be. I think you used to be more centrist but you've been swerving rightwards for years now.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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May 31, 2017, 01:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
you favour progressive thinking over the ass-backwards kind.
You can't get more "ass-backwards" than so-called progressive collectivism. Hence the term the Regressive Left, the unholy spawn of postmodernist idiocy and Marxism.
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