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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > buy or download mac os x 10.4 for ibook

buy or download mac os x 10.4 for ibook
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bonniescotland
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Mar 12, 2009, 04:05 AM
 
My family and I want to network our computers, so we bought airport extreme hub, but software says all computers need os x 10.4, however we only have one computer with os x 10.4 and that's my macbook, so I want to install 10.4. on our iBook (G4) 933mhz, 256mb currently running 10.3.9, and also want to install on our e-mac and possibly on our powerbook G4.

I tried to use my macbook's 10.4 dvd to install on the ibook but it came up with a crazy screen with all programming all over it, so I had to try and eject the DVD (after many attempts managed to do thi)s.

So I'm gathering I can't use this DVD for anything other than my macbook?

Other alternative is buying or downloading another DVD of mac osx 10.4, does anyone know if I do buy another DVD will the computers listed above install 10.4?

Or can I download 10.4 (either free or buy it) and then install on these computers?
     
JKT
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Mar 12, 2009, 05:07 AM
 
Fwiw, you can use the freeware MacTracker app to find out whether or not a Mac will support 10.4.

All three of your Macs should run 10.4.11 without any problems but you will need more RAM in your iBook for it to run comfortably - 256MB is on the low side for 10.4.

To obtain 10.4, eBay or (probably) a reputable, non-Apple Mac retailer is your friend. Edit: It shouldn't cost you more than a few tens of Aussie dollars.

10.4 is not legally available for download from anywhere.
     
CharlesS
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Mar 12, 2009, 05:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by bonniescotland View Post
So I'm gathering I can't use this DVD for anything other than my macbook?
Apple's hardware-specific install discs are generally only designed to install on the machine they shipped with. This is especially true in your case, since your MacBook came with the Intel version of 10.4.x, while your iBook requires a PPC version of OS X. What you need is a retail copy of 10.4.x (or 10.5.x). If you buy from eBay, be careful as some sellers sell machine-specific copies of OS X and claim they can be installed on any machine, when in fact this is not true without going through major hassles.

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Spheric Harlot
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Mar 12, 2009, 06:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by JKT View Post
To obtain 10.4, eBay or (probably) a reputable, non-Apple Mac retailer is your friend. Edit: It shouldn't cost you more than a few tens of Aussie dollars.
You will not find 10.4 at any retailer. 10.4 has not been commercially available since October 29, 2007. Whatever stock any retailer might have had at that point will be *long* gone.

A 10.4 retail disk will often go for around or even over €100 on eBay around here (original retail price was €130).
     
bonniescotland  (op)
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Mar 12, 2009, 08:31 PM
 
Thanks everyone for your advice. Well if 10.4 is difficult to get maybe I should buy a family pack license of 10.5 instead and install that on every machine? Any ideas if 10.5 will work on an ibook, emac and powerbook (all G4). I'll also install it on my macbook (which is currently 10.4)

Do I have to buy 2 separate disks, e.g. intel disk and a ppc disk? Or will one disk work on all machines.

Thanks for the link to Mactracker I am downloading now to try and find out this, but it's taking ages and ages to download for some reason, so thought I'd quickly ask the question in case anyone knows.
Thanks
     
64stang06
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Mar 12, 2009, 08:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by bonniescotland View Post
Thanks everyone for your advice. Well if 10.4 is difficult to get maybe I should buy a family pack license of 10.5 instead and install that on every machine? Any ideas if 10.5 will work on an ibook, emac and powerbook (all G4). I'll also install it on my macbook (which is currently 10.4)

Do I have to buy 2 separate disks, e.g. intel disk and a ppc disk? Or will one disk work on all machines.

Thanks for the link to Mactracker I am downloading now to try and find out this, but it's taking ages and ages to download for some reason, so thought I'd quickly ask the question in case anyone knows.
Thanks
The 10.5 install disc is universal, so you only get 1 in the package. Make sure all your Macs have 1GB or more of RAM, considering that 10.5 requires at least 512MB for the OS itself.
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Mar 12, 2009, 08:43 PM
 
The 10.5 retail disk works on both PowerPC an Intel. For the system requirements see:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/techspecs/
     
bonniescotland  (op)
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Mar 12, 2009, 08:53 PM
 
Aah thanks for that!
ibook only has 256mb so I guess then 10.5 no good then, I think I have enough ram on the other computers.
Also having this techspecs link handy thanks muchly.
Mactracker not downloading for some reason! Oh well I think my question is answered now anyway.
Thanks all.
     
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Mar 12, 2009, 09:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
You will not find 10.4 at any retailer. 10.4 has not been commercially available since October 29, 2007. Whatever stock any retailer might have had at that point will be *long* gone.

A 10.4 retail disk will often go for around or even over €100 on eBay around here (original retail price was €130).
Who knew a Tiger retail disc was that valuable. I should sell mine.

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Mar 12, 2009, 10:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Who knew a Tiger retail disc was that valuable. I should sell mine.
I was just thinking the same thing.

-t
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 13, 2009, 03:44 AM
 
It's the latest possible OS for a whole bunch of fairly recent machines.

When Apple stopped selling Airport 4 cards, stores were blowing out stock for €80. eBay prices were at €120.
     
Gavin
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Mar 13, 2009, 05:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by bonniescotland View Post
My family and I want to network our computers, so we bought airport extreme hub, but software says all computers need os x 10.4
I'm sure the 10.4 limit is for the management software so you can remotely set up the hub - which you only do once from a single computer.

The wireless networking for your local network should work fine with any machine you can get on the internet. 10.3.9 will be OK for file sharing, etc.
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JKT
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Mar 13, 2009, 06:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Who knew a Tiger retail disc was that valuable. I should sell mine.
It surprised me too - once Leopard had been released I had assumed it would fall in price like 10.3 did when 10.4 had been out for a while. Hello eBay!
( Last edited by JKT; Mar 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Clarified my meaning)
     
64stang06
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Mar 13, 2009, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by bonniescotland View Post
Aah thanks for that!
ibook only has 256mb so I guess then 10.5 no good then, I think I have enough ram on the other computers.
Also having this techspecs link handy thanks muchly.
Mactracker not downloading for some reason! Oh well I think my question is answered now anyway.
Thanks all.
www.everymac.com also has great information available as well.
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Mar 13, 2009, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Who knew a Tiger retail disc was that valuable. I should sell mine.
Thought about it, but I realized that I'd like to downgrade this G5 when I upgrade. I must have some form of Classic support around, and the G3 went boom.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Andrew Stephens
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Mar 13, 2009, 05:54 PM
 
One of the main reasons that 10.4 is so expensive on ebay is the technology gap that many users find themselves falling into.

There are many many Mac owners using older g4 machines and 10.3 that won't run Leopard. When they buy a new iPod (even a shuffle), they discover that they need 10.4.7 or greater. Buying a new mac is out of the question on many peoples budget, so they end up looking for a copy of 10.4

I have seen many many customers royally pee'd off that Apple give almost no warning about the system requirements of modern iPods, it's written in light grey text at 3pt size on the box and the staff never mention it.

Instant market for 10.4
     
CharlesS
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Mar 13, 2009, 10:19 PM
 
The fact that 10.5 doesn't run Classic could be a factor as well for those who need it.

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cwkmacuser
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Mar 15, 2009, 12:22 PM
 
I don't think apple still sells 10.4, but I'm sure you can still find it on eBay. However, you may choose to upgrade a step further to Apple Mac OS X 10.5, which will give you more features.
     
turtle777
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Mar 15, 2009, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
I don't think apple still sells 10.4, but I'm sure you can still find it on eBay. However, you may choose to upgrade a step further to Apple Mac OS X 10.5, which will give you more features.
If you read the thread, you will notice that generally, people with less capable hardware would buy 10.4 because 10.5 wouldn't run on their machines.

-t
     
cybergoober
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Mar 15, 2009, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
I'm sure the 10.4 limit is for the management software so you can remotely set up the hub - which you only do once from a single computer.

The wireless networking for your local network should work fine with any machine you can get on the internet. 10.3.9 will be OK for file sharing, etc.
That was my first thought as well.
     
JTh
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Mar 16, 2009, 11:41 AM
 
Before buying 10.4, the other thing you'll want to think about is the remaining life of the products. Apple will eventually stop supporting 10.4, and it'll probably be in the relatively near future - not tomorrow, not next month, maybe not even until 2010, but it'll happen. That's a promise. So to me, buying 10.4 at any price is kind of like tossing money away.

The other thing is you mentioned three G4 Macs, which have got to be going on 4+ years old now? So I see a couple potential issues: One, memory is probably more expensive for those Macs now, since there's lower demand - but I admit, I haven't looked at prices. Two, you could be running on borrowed time for the hard drives, as hard drives eventually fail. I know that replacing the drive in the iBook is difficult, but I don't know about the Powerbook and eMac.

BTW, if you haven't maxed out the memory in your MacBook, it's probably one of the cheapest times to do so - there's a LOT of MacBooks out there, so memory prices are probably as low as they're going to get!

Anyway, you might keep this in mind. I know it's the much more expensive route, but you might look at consolidating/replacing the G4 Macs. There's almost always demand for old Macs, so you might be able to sell those. And of course, it doesn't hurt to look at a used Intel Mac. Virtually any Intel Mac should run Leopard well (and Snow Leopard as well) - it doesn't ever hurt to max out the memory, and like I said, memory is probably as cheap as it's going to get.
     
bonniescotland  (op)
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Mar 17, 2009, 01:22 AM
 
Thanks all.
Well now I'm trying to figure out whether to buy 10.5. or 10.4 (assuming I can still get it).

We will probably get a family pack, however my macbook will definitely not be networked to the others, so maybe for myself I may get 10.5.

With the other computers I'd also like to install 10.5 but if it needs 512mb ram then I have to get the ram on the other computers upgraded. Also one of those computers the family owner has documents that he created in system 9 (is that classic?) so with 10.5 can you no longer access this old documents and old software from system 9?

Re the networking software you mention that 10.4 is only for remote. The problem is I don't have a clue about networking software so not sure if this is something that would be tricky for me to disable this remote type thing you talk of? See the situation is that I am helping a family member network all his computers, and neither of us really know what we are doing, but I know a little more than him. So if we can use 10.3 for this networking software with no hassle well I'll go for it, but if means some major workaround I think it's probably better for me not to try it.
     
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Mar 17, 2009, 03:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by bonniescotland View Post
Also one of those computers the family owner has documents that he created in system 9 (is that classic?) so with 10.5 can you no longer access this old documents and old software from system 9?
You can no longer start up the applications that were used to create these documents.

The documents themselves may still be read by newer applications (depending on the document format, obviously).
     
Gavin
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Mar 17, 2009, 04:56 PM
 
You don't need any special "networking software"

The internet will just work. Filesharing will just work. 10.3 will do just fine.

try it.
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Mar 17, 2009, 05:23 PM
 
Like Gavin said, it should work fine even as far back as 10.2. The minimum requirements for the AirPort is just for the software to configure it. So as long as you have at least one machine with 10.4 or later, you can set up and configure the AirPort base station from that machine. All your other machines should be able to connect the wireless just fine without installing 10.4.
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Mar 17, 2009, 05:56 PM
 
The Classic environment can still be run on Tiger (10.4) but was removed completely from 10.5. If you still want the ability to run Classic on a Mac, don't upgrade to 10.5.

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cwkmacuser
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Mar 24, 2009, 07:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
The Classic environment can still be run on Tiger (10.4) but was removed completely from 10.5. If you still want the ability to run Classic on a Mac, don't upgrade to 10.5.
Why was the classic environment removed? Does anyone know? It has caused me some problems!
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bonniescotland  (op)
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Mar 31, 2009, 02:20 AM
 
I tried installing my original macbook OS X 10.4 DVD onto an ibook and it crashed it, anyway managed to get the ibook up and running again. Some of your posts have mentioned that this is probably because the DVD was only for the macbook to use. So my question is if I have copied the 10.4 DVD will my copy install on the ibook? I know I could just try it but don't want to crash the ibook again. I can no longer buy 10.4 from apple and I don't trust ebay, and I don't want to install 10.5 (as classic on ibook will no longer run) so this is why I am thinking of trying to install from my copy.

By the way thanks for the other replies re the other issues I am having, much appreciated.
     
msuper69
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Mar 31, 2009, 02:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by bonniescotland View Post
I tried installing my original macbook OS X 10.4 DVD onto an ibook and it crashed it, anyway managed to get the ibook up and running again. Some of your posts have mentioned that this is probably because the DVD was only for the macbook to use. So my question is if I have copied the 10.4 DVD will my copy install on the ibook? I know I could just try it but don't want to crash the ibook again. I can no longer buy 10.4 from apple and I don't trust ebay, and I don't want to install 10.5 (as classic on ibook will no longer run) so this is why I am thinking of trying to install from my copy.

By the way thanks for the other replies re the other issues I am having, much appreciated.
Won't work. You need a retail copy of 10.4.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 31, 2009, 03:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
Why was the classic environment removed? Does anyone know? It has caused me some problems!
Because not a single Mac released since January 2006 supports classic (being Intel-based), and because at some point Apple had to drop continued integration (which necessarily involved development effort, however minimal, with each further generation of OS X) of an operating system they stopped developing in 1999.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 31, 2009, 03:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by bonniescotland View Post
I tried installing my original macbook OS X 10.4 DVD onto an ibook and it crashed it, anyway managed to get the ibook up and running again. Some of your posts have mentioned that this is probably because the DVD was only for the macbook to use. So my question is if I have copied the 10.4 DVD will my copy install on the ibook? I know I could just try it but don't want to crash the ibook again. I can no longer buy 10.4 from apple and I don't trust ebay, and I don't want to install 10.5 (as classic on ibook will no longer run) so this is why I am thinking of trying to install from my copy.
um:
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Apple's hardware-specific install discs are generally only designed to install on the machine they shipped with. This is especially true in your case, since your MacBook came with the Intel version of 10.4.x, while your iBook requires a PPC version of OS X. What you need is a retail copy of 10.4.x (or 10.5.x). If you buy from eBay, be careful as some sellers sell machine-specific copies of OS X and claim they can be installed on any machine, when in fact this is not true without going through major hassles.
     
CharlesS
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Mar 31, 2009, 04:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Because not a single Mac released since January 2006 supports classic (being Intel-based), and because at some point Apple had to drop continued integration (which necessarily involved development effort, however minimal, with each further generation of OS X) of an operating system they stopped developing in 1999.
Not this again. There exist lots of emulators for OS X that didn't break when 10.5 came out, and Classic support for 10.5 wouldn't have been that much of an effort either. The thing was already written, and all the work was done already. It was pretty much static.

It wouldn't have killed Apple to include Classic support for one more release, especially considering that 10.5 was always obviously going to be the last release of OS X to run on PowerPC Macs.

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Mar 31, 2009, 06:40 AM
 
Classic was a feature discrepancy towards the older Macs, and making it work on 10.5 would have emphasized this. Personally I'd love to have it for one more version, but I can understand them not doing it. It IS a little soon though, compared to MS compability layers.

Classic had special hooks in the kernel, and theoretically it could affect system stability. More likely is that one could make DOS attack by running a misbehaving app in Classic - a variant on a classic fork bomb that slows the system down to the point of being unusable.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Apr 4, 2009, 08:47 PM
 
I am assuming that by Airport Extreme Hub, you are really meaning an Airport Extreme WIFI router. If that is the case, it should allow WIFI connections from any machine running OS-
X from 10.3 upwards. The requirement for 10.4.11 maybe for using the latest Airport Admin utility.
So use your one machine to set-up the Airport Extreme device with whatever security settings etc that you want and then any machine will access the internet using the Airport Extreme.
If the older machines don't seem to be able to connect, try reducing the security settings from WPA to WEP.
     
   
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