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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > The rich are different, in a bad way?

The rich are different, in a bad way?
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Shaddim
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Aug 12, 2011, 12:49 PM
 
The rich are different — and not in a good way, studies suggest - Health - Behavior - msnbc.com

Seems this leans more towards people who have been rich all their lives. Those who are "self-made" seem to be able to avoid this problem, and tend to be the most balanced and philanthropic. So, be careful which rich person you "eat", instead of dining on some Cruella deVille you might be chewing Sam Wainwright by mistake.
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Athens
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Aug 12, 2011, 01:49 PM
 
I herd about this on the Radio this morning. Basically Rich people share some common personality traits which helps them get rich at the expense of others. They only care about themselves.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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Shaddim  (op)
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Aug 12, 2011, 02:14 PM
 
Which is why Gates and Buffet are giving all their money away? Neither was wealthy as a child and came into their money as adults.

Raised rich, you're likely to be a prat. Work hard and become rich, you're more likely to be better adjusted.
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sek929
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Aug 12, 2011, 02:47 PM
 
Couldn't be more true.

I work for all sorts of self-made millionaires and they are, on the whole, very down to earth and a dream to work for. Their kids tend to be complete dumbass spoiled brats though.
     
Athens
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Aug 12, 2011, 02:48 PM
 
Your working under the concept of absolution. Not 100% of every rich person is going to fit into that study. Just enough of them to make it appear that way.
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Aug 12, 2011, 02:50 PM
 
And I always thought the "most improved" award was bs...
     
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Aug 12, 2011, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
The rich are different — and not in a good way, studies suggest - Health - Behavior - msnbc.com

Seems this leans more towards people who have been rich all their lives. Those who are "self-made" seem to be able to avoid this problem, and tend to be the most balanced and philanthropic. So, be careful which rich person you "eat", instead of dining on some Cruella deVille you might be chewing Sam Wainwright by mistake.
Who knows how legit this stuff is. All I know is that the class warfare stuff has been ramped up (astroturfed) bigtime recently, so watch out.

I've known rich people, some were a-holes and some weren't. Just like everyone else I've known. I'll tell you, though, that the richest folks I've known were also the cheapest. Old clothes, old car, borrow tools and cameras and stuff instead of buying them. Amazing. Every one of them had that characteristic, whether they made the money or inherited it or slept with it.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 12, 2011, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by finboy View Post
I'll tell you, though, that the richest folks I've known were also the cheapest. Old clothes, old car, borrow tools and cameras and stuff instead of buying them. Amazing. Every one of them had that characteristic, whether they made the money or inherited it or slept with it.
Thats how they stay rich.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Doofy
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Aug 12, 2011, 05:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I herd about this on the Radio this morning. Basically Rich people share some common personality traits which helps them get rich at the expense of others. They only care about themselves.
Right. Because poor people are lovely, altruistic angels who aren't just out for themselves.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Aug 12, 2011, 05:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Right. Because poor people are lovely, altruistic angels who aren't just out for themselves.
Thats how they stay poor.
     
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Aug 12, 2011, 05:53 PM
 
A well-off guy I know (not exactly super rich but makes 6-digit $ each year as a professional) was investigated by the tax authorities because he was donating 5-digit $ to charity every year. You just can't win...
     
turtle777
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Aug 12, 2011, 05:57 PM
 
I'm sure if he had donated that money to some PAC, there wouldn't be any questions.

-t
     
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Aug 12, 2011, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I herd about this on the Radio this morning. Basically Rich people share some common personality traits which helps them get rich at the expense of others.
Nobody "gets rich at the expense of others." There are two legitimate ways to get rich--earn it through hard work by creating value, or inherit it. (there is a third, illegitimate way--become a politician and confiscate the wealth of others).
     
chabig
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Aug 12, 2011, 06:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Which is why Gates and Buffet are giving all their money away? Neither was wealthy as a child and came into their money as adults.
Bill Gates was raised in a wealthy family.
     
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Aug 12, 2011, 09:37 PM
 
If we have enough time to lounge around on this forum, we are in about the top 7% wealthiest of the world.
     
Shaddim  (op)
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Aug 12, 2011, 10:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
Bill Gates was raised in a wealthy family.
Middle class, but certainly not "rich", which is my point. I'm talking about people who are in the top .5% from birth. They tend to be asshats. I'm not saying that 100% of them are, I never did, but I will say that there is a strong tendency.
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Aug 12, 2011, 10:04 PM
 
So imagine you are a Billionaire...lot's of money

You have money in the bank

You have money invested in stock market (safe, moderate and risky)

You are NOT a small business. if you are in a business, you are using other people's money...read trump

So, if you get a tax break, you keep the extra money...of course!
     
Shaddim  (op)
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Aug 12, 2011, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Right. Because poor people are lovely, altruistic angels who aren't just out for themselves.
No doubt. Being poor is a virtue, it seems.
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Your working under the concept of absolution. Not 100% of every rich person is going to fit into that study. Just enough of them to make it appear that way.
No, not 100%, but the vast majority that I've seen do.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Shaddim  (op)
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Aug 12, 2011, 10:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by ironknee View Post
So imagine you are a Billionaire...lot's of money

You have money in the bank

You have money invested in stock market (safe, moderate and risky)

You are NOT a small business. if you are in a business, you are using other people's money...read trump

So, if you get a tax break, you keep the extra money...of course!
If they get a tax break, it means very little. They don't usually sell their securities, they just add to them. When they do sell, they sell enough to make some contributions and to cover what they need or want. Very little in the way of liquid assets just sitting around.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Eug
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Aug 12, 2011, 10:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Middle class, but certainly not "rich", which is my point. I'm talking about people who are in the top .5% from birth. They tend to be asshats. I'm not saying that 100% of them are, I never did, but I will say that there is a strong tendency.
I like this guy:

Chinese billionaire donates entire fortune to charity; his heirs to receive nothing

The Shenzhen real estate and hotel tycoon will donate 470 million dollars in cash and property assets to the charity with his namesake: the Yu Pengnian Foundation. This most recent donation will bring Yu’s total to a whopping 1.2 billion dollars in personal contributions—the entire worth of his fortune--and elevate him to the first mainland philanthropist to break the billion-US-dollar barrier in donations.

“…I have a point of view that is very different from others, I will not leave my fortune to my children. […] If my children are more capable than me, it's not necessary to leave a lot of money to them. If they are incompetent, a lot of money will only be harmful to them."

Reports confirm that Yu’s children agree with his decision, and one must commend this humble attitude towards personal wealth. But, sheesh, the 88-yeard old pops sure takes a hard-lined approach to child-rearing.
If I were in that league, I'd take the Warren Buffet approach. Donate lots of the money to charity, but make sure your kids are very comfortable. I suspect that Chinese tycoon's kids are quite comfortable too though.
     
Athens
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Aug 13, 2011, 02:31 AM
 
My personal experiences when it comes to getting paid for my services, middle class homes never haggle price and are glad to pay what I ask for, those that are wealthy or even Rich are a totally different story...
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Aug 13, 2011, 04:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Middle class, but certainly not "rich", which is my point. I'm talking about people who are in the top .5% from birth. They tend to be asshats. I'm not saying that 100% of them are, I never did, but I will say that there is a strong tendency.
Having half the population constantly whine that you should be giving them more money is enough to turn anyone into an asshat, don't ya think?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Aug 13, 2011, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
Nobody "gets rich at the expense of others." There are two legitimate ways to get rich--earn it through hard work by creating value, or inherit it. (there is a third, illegitimate way--become a politician and confiscate the wealth of others).
You don't say much, but when you do...
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
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Aug 13, 2011, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
My personal experiences when it comes to getting paid for my services, middle class homes never haggle price and are glad to pay what I ask for, those that are wealthy or even Rich are a totally different story...
Yeah... it's called being a steward of resources; being shrewd. If what I'm hearing about business-owners is true, they'd have no choice, but to assume you're trying to rip them off with the cost of your services and challenge you every step of the way. Folks in the Middle class might question prices less, but then... they are the recipient of the overwhelming majority of welfare doled out in the US for example and think less of the importance of resources. (not sure of Canada, but I'm guessing so)

See how the class-warfare things rears its head to bite ya in the a$$ time and again?
ebuddy
     
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Aug 13, 2011, 10:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
My personal experiences when it comes to getting paid for my services, middle class homes never haggle price and are glad to pay what I ask for, those that are wealthy or even Rich are a totally different story...
Hmmm... As I've gotten better off financially, I've learned to haggle more. It's not that my perspective has necessarily changed, but it's just that I've come to the realization I was paying too much for a lot of stuff before. eg. Now I don't pay retail for my cell phone or or my cable service, because I know better. I haggle, and they give me discounts. I could easily afford pay the higher rates, but why would I want to? When I was younger and less financially savvy, I simply didn't know any better.

However, when it comes to stuff like contractors and what not I will generally pay what they ask for... but I also get references and multiple bids from multiple contractors, unless I really, really one specific contractor. Generally the cheapest bid may not be a good idea because some will either be incompetent, or else they have some other issues. Or they will underbid and then raise the price later. OTOH, often the highest bid may just be overpriced.
     
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Aug 13, 2011, 03:45 PM
 
I'll give you a example of the price haggling

Customer (A) West Vancouver District, lives in 2 Million dollar home, a couple BMW's in the drive way, inside the house everything screams made of money and does not work. Looking for a new computer. Non Mac person so I recommend a $1500 Toshiba. They specifically said we want a good solid computer. Yet argues with me about the $1500 price and points to a bestbuy flyer for a $499 laptop. I explain the differences in performance, capability, size, durability but none of that matters. They buy the $499 laptop from bestbuy. Didn't take longer then a week for them to call me back out to make it go faster because it was so much slower then the desktop they replace. I do a complete OS wipe and reinstall to a nice clean OS with NOOOOO crapware on it. Did improve it for a bit. In 6 months it was already off for warranty repair. They struggled with it for a year and a half before they finally bought a second laptop for $1300 following my recommendations. Now in this case was a consulting role, I've been their personal computer tech for years so my advice makes me no money.

Customer (B) a High School teacher in Coquitlam with a average house, average older car with 4 kids to feed with little spare money also a non Mac person wanted a new computer. Gave him the list of recommended desktops at Bestbuy ranging from $800-$1000 and the option for a custom built one that would set him back $1200. (I stopped building cheap custom computers long ago) He went with my custom PC and gladly paid the price for it. Overall he got a much better computer then anything in the same price range at the store.

I find if I want to take advantage of some one (I don't its not how I operate my consulting) it would be easier by far to take advantage of middle class people. Wealthy and Rich people would not be so easy. But I also find it a lot easier to work with middle class people on many levels. They are more trusting. They are more open to suggesting. They are more social. Its the middle class customers that will invite me out for a beer or a BBQ at there homes. Its the ones I see the most often and the longest. I end up watching their kids grow up over the years. I guess you can say its a closer working relationship with them vs the well off people you have little in common with and have little interest in your services except get it done and get out.

Thats been my experiences over 12 years of computer work. Im not saying all wealthy people are like that, just the majority of the ones I have dealt with. All of the are the same way with money like Customer (A) but not all of them are anti social, I have a few wealthy clients who treat me like Customer (B)
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Aug 13, 2011, 04:09 PM
 
Athens is pretty much right. The richer the customer, the more they complain about the prices you give them as a general rule. And the longer it takes them to pay their bills too.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 13, 2011, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
Nobody "gets rich at the expense of others." There are two legitimate ways to get rich--earn it through hard work by creating value, or inherit it. (there is a third, illegitimate way--become a politician and confiscate the wealth of others).
So its impossible to get rich by exploiting other people? Don't be silly.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777
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Aug 13, 2011, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
So its impossible to get rich by exploiting other people? Don't be silly.
He was talking about *legal* ways of getting rich.

You can only exploit if you do illegal stuff.

Of course, the lefties around here will argue that their gains were obtained *immorally*. That's a huge difference to illegal though. And that's a philosophical discussion. I would argue that most welfare recipients gain their "income" immorally as well.

-t
     
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Aug 13, 2011, 04:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Athens is pretty much right. The richer the customer, the more they complain about the prices you give them as a general rule. And the longer it takes them to pay their bills too.
True that, not to once again use my experience in construction, but the best people we have ever worked for were tradesmen like us. We worked for a guy who owned his own HVAC company and paid us in 100$ bills every week.

The regular rich aren't so bad, but we've had a few customers who passed away and left their kids the family estate. These people are some of the biggest assholes I've ever met, and every time they have to part with one dime THEY DID NOT EARN, you'd think you were trying to rob them. I work very hard for my money, and to see some spoiled goddamn brat talk to us like we are dishonest shysters makes me want to show them the business end of my hammer.
     
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Aug 13, 2011, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Customer (A) West Vancouver District, lives in 2 Million dollar home, a couple BMW's in the drive way, inside the house everything screams made of money and does not work.
Oh. I thought we were talking about "rich".
Your "customer A" is into the bank for loads and owns nothing.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Aug 13, 2011, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
He was talking about *legal* ways of getting rich.

You can only exploit if you do illegal stuff.

Of course, the lefties around here will argue that their gains were obtained *immorally*. That's a huge difference to illegal though. And that's a philosophical discussion. I would argue that most welfare recipients gain their "income" immorally as well.

-t
Again. Don't be silly. Never heard of foreign sweatshops? Perfectly legal.

Just because you found a trick or a loophole to make it legal doesn't mean its not exploitative.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777
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Aug 13, 2011, 05:53 PM
 
Ok, I take the bait : I assume you only buy stuff made in the UK?
Otherwise, you standard of living would be proped up by this as well, making you an exploited, too.

Good for you.

-t
     
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Aug 13, 2011, 05:58 PM
 
Nothing is made in the UK besides a couple of Hondas and some tea.
     
turtle777
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Aug 13, 2011, 06:03 PM
 
Oh the noes. Waragainstsleep can't possibly live with just that.

He probably dresses in Italian clothing, using French furniture and a Mac made in California.

-t
     
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Aug 13, 2011, 07:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Oh the noes. Waragainstsleep can't possibly live with just that.

He probably dresses in Italian clothing, using French furniture and a Mac made in California.

-t
Hahahaha. Somewhat off the mark in reality. I never said I boycotted stuff made by exploited workers. Just that I'm aware people get exploited to make it.

They make Macs in California? I guess maybe I could use exclusively prototypes.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Aug 13, 2011, 07:38 PM
 
<My politically-motivated view of the rich backed up by a couple of isolated anecdotes.>
     
Shaddim  (op)
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Aug 13, 2011, 10:19 PM
 
I have two rules that fit here:

1. A workman is worthy of his pay.
2. Don't screw with the people who fix your stuff.

I usually pay too much for service, paying promptly when it's complete, and I'm known for tipping on the heavy side. When it comes to buying products in a store or online, though, I'm a frickin' shark with laser beams attached to his head. My HT/hi-fi dealer both loves and hates me, because I haggle with the guy until he's a wreck. Same thing with cars, property, appliances, etc.. For me, it's all part of the fun of shopping.
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Aug 13, 2011, 11:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I'll give you a example of the price haggling
Well, my last PC purchase (desktop) cost me $399. The only upgrade I've done to it was $40 worth of memory (4 GB --> 8 GB). Well, I cleaned out all the crapware too.

Anyways, yours was a terrible example. Basically a computer n00b didn't take your advice. That's not because he's rich. It's just because he's a n00b and maybe an ass.

I'll give you a contrary example. A very well off colleague asked me for advice for a PC laptop. I suggested a mid-priced laptop that was relatively light for portability, but one that wasn't super powerful because she didn't really need it.. A family member advised a much more expensive model that had everything under the sun, and was significantly faster, had a larger screen, but was also significantly heavier. She bought the laptop recommended by the family member for much more money.

A year later she got rid of it because it was too bulky and heavy and got something similar to what I originally recommended for a lower price.
     
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Aug 14, 2011, 12:17 AM
 
Many rich people are frugal with their money. Some of them are quite free with their spending, though. It varies. Saying "the rich are different because" is similar to saying "whites are different because," or "blacks are different because," or "Jews are different because" - it sounds like you're making a far too wide generalization/stereotype.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Aug 14, 2011, 12:32 AM
 
second example is at 2004 prices, for its day it was not a bad price. Still being used even now.
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Aug 14, 2011, 09:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
So its impossible to get rich by exploiting other people? Don't be silly.
It's possible to get rich without exploiting other people and it's possible to exploit people regardless of your income.
ebuddy
     
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Aug 14, 2011, 09:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
second example is at 2004 prices, for its day it was not a bad price. Still being used even now.
So your prime example is some random person from 7 years ago.

You should really step back and just consider how ridiculous your contention sounds. As Laminar says.

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
<My politically-motivated view of the rich backed up by a couple of isolated anecdotes.>
     
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Aug 14, 2011, 11:39 AM
 
This "study" is a joke.

Their time would have been better spent studying how many academics have autism/Aspergers and figuring out why they are unable to make a living in the real world .
     
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Aug 14, 2011, 07:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
They make Macs in California? I guess maybe I could use exclusively prototypes.
Never take investment advice from someone that doesn't know one of the most valuable companies in the world doesn't make their products in the US.
Guess he hasn't popped his head out of the shell in a while.
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Aug 14, 2011, 07:09 PM
 
Don't worry Turty - I understood exactly what you were saying.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Aug 14, 2011, 07:12 PM
 
I did too, but apparently it's over everyone else's heads.
     
screener
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Aug 14, 2011, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Turty
     
Railroader
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Aug 14, 2011, 08:07 PM
 
Yet another one caught in such a subtle sarcastic comment. Good job Turtle.
( Last edited by Railroader; Aug 14, 2011 at 08:18 PM. )
     
screener
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Aug 14, 2011, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Yet another one caught is such a subtle sarcastic comment. Good job Turtle.
C'mon, the s isn't even close to the n.
     
 
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