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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > Feedback > Why is every car thread being ruined?

Why is every car thread being ruined? (Page 2)
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Person Man
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Location: Northwest Ohio
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:33 PM
 
Yes. I hope you're happy you pushed him over the edge.

Note: I'm not targeting any one specific person here, and I'm not going to say that he doesn't have any of the blame, because ultimately he is the one responsible for whatever meltdown that caused this permanent ban, but I have to say that up until now he was quite restrained in his behavior compared to his earlier behavior.

But there was a small group of people who couldn't let him be. They had to keep picking at him, little by little, until he couldn't take it any more. Honestly, why couldn't you have ignored him? He really wasn't hurting ANYONE.
     
turtle777
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
Note: I'm not targeting any one specific person here, and I'm not going to say that he doesn't have any of the blame, because ultimately he is the one responsible for whatever meltdown that caused this permanent ban, but I have to say that up until now he was quite restrained in his behavior compared to his earlier behavior.

But there was a small group of people who couldn't let him be. They had to keep picking at him, little by little, until he couldn't take it any more. Honestly, why couldn't you have ignored him? He really wasn't hurting ANYONE.
WTF ? They perma-banned him again ?

Why ? Rob was acting as much as others baited him. He was mostly civil, I didn't see any meltdown that would have warranted a perma-ban.

I guess some mod got heavy handed again and added up a few lousy infractions until it was perceived as too much. This perma-ban business is really retarded.

-t
     
sek929
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Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:40 PM
 
Look, I've always been on Robs side, since way back in 01.

It's not what he says but how he says it.

I say auto trannies last longer. Laminar says he doesn't think that is the case and says why, Rob posts 12 lol smilies.

This happens all the time, he simply cannot stop acting like a little child with the way he says things, period. If you say something wrong a normal person would correct you, Rob berates and belittles first and then corrects you. That is not the way adults act, funny since he is considerably older than I am.

I don't think a perma-ban was needed, as it never is, but Rob simply does not understand how callous and dickish he can be, it's like that part of his brain is missing.
     
turtle777
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:43 PM
 
Well, he might not act as a grown up, but we have other members here that act pretty childish all the time. It's not like acting like a 12 year old has been declared a banable offense.

-t
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 7, 2010, 07:49 PM
 
So how come his temp ban was changed into banination?
     
Person Man
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Oct 7, 2010, 08:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
So how come his temp ban was changed into banination?
I'd like to know as well. My guess, though, is that he didn't think that whatever infractions he got that resulted in a temp ban were "fair" (especially after this particular Feedback thread was started) and went off on a mod in private?
     
brassplayersrock²
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Oct 7, 2010, 08:43 PM
 
Possible posts that took him from banned to banninated

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...2/#post4012786

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...2/#post4012791

Who knows why he was banninated (besides the mods ect), but this chapter is done now.
     
turtle777
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Oct 7, 2010, 08:53 PM
 
A permaban for that ? Geez, the mods need to chill out.

Just give him 2 weeks to relax, and then another two if he needs it. This permaban business is so silly.

-t
     
Person Man
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Oct 7, 2010, 09:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
A permaban for that ? Geez, the mods need to chill out.

Just give him 2 weeks to relax, and then another two if he needs it. This permaban business is so silly.

-t
No, I doubt that was what got him permabanned. But based on Cold Warrior's comment "See ya," that last comment was most likely the "infraction that broke the camel's back," in other words, the one that gave him the temp ban. It was another day at least before I saw that the temp ban morphed into a permaban.
     
AKcrab
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Oct 7, 2010, 10:00 PM
 
(Taking off my mod hat, he never posts in the few places I mod anyway.)

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Just give him 2 weeks to relax, and then another two if he needs it.
And another two, and another two, and another two.
This permaban business is so silly.
So is breaking rules for a decade.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Oct 8, 2010, 12:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by AKcrab View Post
(Taking off my mod hat, he never posts in the few places I mod anyway.)


And another two, and another two, and another two.

So is breaking rules for a decade.
When you put it into that perspective…. daaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyuuuuuuummmmmmmmmm
     
ghporter
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Oct 8, 2010, 08:41 AM
 
Let's add a little more perspective to the whole thing, just for clarity. Rob was never officially unbanned. He returned in this thread, claiming he would only post there. None of us felt like kicking him while he was down, so he wasn't banned.

A year later, there are numerous Reports and assorted Feedback threads. A staff discussion finally happened on if Rob was allowed back. He got voted off the island instead.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
turtle777
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Oct 8, 2010, 09:14 AM
 
So, we should expect him back with new handles.

Seems like the mods are devided over this issue as well. There is no other reasonable explanation why he was let post freely for months.

-t
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 8, 2010, 09:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
But there was a small group of people who couldn't let him be. They had to keep picking at him, little by little, until he couldn't take it any more. Honestly, why couldn't you have ignored him? He really wasn't hurting ANYONE.
Let's have a little perspective shall we? Things came to a head when he was having the same "discussion" by derailing four different threads on cars. People were pretty passive about it at first, but he wouldn't let it go.

But more importantly, remember the cash that showed up after his wife left him? The one that held his tongue, had some restraint, and avoided meltdowns? People were ok with that guy being around; That guy's been a gone a while. It's been a slow backslide from new cash to old cash. And as gh points out, old cash was banninated.

Personally, I probably would have given cash this a chance to reclaim his new cash persona on return, but I can't blame the admins for going back to bannination given the history that exists here.
     
ghporter
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Oct 8, 2010, 09:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
So, we should expect him back with new handles.
Probably not. His previous attempts at evading his ban have given us an education on catching that sort of thing quickly.
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Seems like the mods are devided over this issue as well. There is no other reasonable explanation why he was let post freely for months.
I wouldn't say we were divided. We were unsure how long he'd stay "behaving himself," and we were also somewhat sympathetic-kicking someone when he's down is hard to do, no matter who it is. And things haven't been exactly static in other areas, either. But the biggest issue I saw was that some members would suggest that we were picking on Rob because "the mods don't like him personally." We worked hard at this issue, and basically let Rob's actions speak for themselves. We probably let him go a lot longer than was appropriate, but the point has been well and thoroughly made.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
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Oct 8, 2010, 04:59 PM
 
So, am I reading this right?

He didn't flame out over his temp ban, and he didn't try and sock puppet around it?
     
ghporter
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Oct 8, 2010, 05:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So, am I reading this right?

He didn't flame out over his temp ban, and he didn't try and sock puppet around it?
No. But not all of his posts before his ban had been considered fully. The totality of his recent posting was more than enough to warrant our decision.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
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Oct 8, 2010, 06:08 PM
 
Fair enough.

Thank you for the answer.
     
turtle777
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Oct 8, 2010, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
No. But not all of his posts before his ban had been considered fully. The totality of his recent posting was more than enough to warrant our decision.
Interesting. So the amount of actual infractions was not enough ?

I am glad that everyone else here is not judged by the totality of all posts, but only by those infractions that are not expired.

-t
     
reader50
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Oct 8, 2010, 07:27 PM
 
This thread, among others helped prompt the discussion. Which went on for awhile. Some recent posts & reports got looked at by more people than normally read them.

I seriously doubt all posts were checked.
     
ghporter
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Oct 8, 2010, 07:31 PM
 
Turtle, nobody else here has established a pattern of abusive, disruptive posting that has caused the level of chaos we've seen due to Robs posting, particularly nobody else has made themselves a huge pain for the whole membership for ten years. We actually discussed this action for quite a while before we finalized it because we anticipated responses such as yours.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
P
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Oct 8, 2010, 07:47 PM
 
There were enough infractions for the temp ban. Permabans are never decided by weight of infractions at all - that's an internal discussion every time.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 9, 2010, 05:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Interesting. So the amount of actual infractions was not enough ?

I am glad that everyone else here is not judged by the totality of all posts, but only by those infractions that are not expired.
I think it's been made abundantly clear that permabans (except for spammers) are rare enough to be decided upon on a case-by-case basis.

I have to say that as much as Rob was back to being a complete ass lately, his previous behavior showed some capacity for "social compatibility" within this forum. I would have hoped that the temp ban would have got him to reconsider.

Unfortunately, the responses to being reprimanded ("I'd just like to say that I was wrong and the GTi is the greatest car ever and you're all totally smart people for liking it" etc.) showed a complete lack of self-reflection and humility. I can understand the ban, though it saddens me.

Plus, I would have liked to see the boat turn out.
     
ghporter
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Oct 9, 2010, 06:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I can understand the ban, though it saddens me.
Me too. I had hoped that a life-changing event like a divorce would have gotten his attention enough to cause some sort of positive change in his (online) approach to everything. I think Rob has a lot of skills and enough imagination to be able to do a whole lot of good things. But communicating on an adult level where there are no immediate, physical consequences for misbehavior, is not one of those things.
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Plus, I would have liked to see the boat turn out.
Again, me too.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
facethefacts68
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Aug 8, 2011, 04:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I'm all for a bit of straying off topic, but seriously.

I count four automotive-related threads on the first page. ALL FOUR ended up being about the same opinion-touted-as-fact bullshit that ruins threads.

Do we seriously have to put up with this? (I realize that no, I could just leave MacNN or avoid car threads, but for the most part, I quite like both of them).

Edit: In hindsight, it should have been a poll.
Can we rename this thread to "why Laminar is such a ****ing sandy vagina"?
     
Person Man
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Aug 8, 2011, 10:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by facethefacts68 View Post
Can we rename this thread to "why Laminar is such a ****ing sandy vagina"?
You're not helping your case any with this comment.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 8, 2011, 01:01 PM
 
He doesn't *have* a case.
     
rambo47
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Aug 13, 2011, 04:32 PM
 
Same old Cash.
     
Lateralus
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Aug 13, 2011, 08:11 PM
 
Ehh... Most of the times I've seen Rob get hostile, it's after he was baited by somebody.
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 13, 2011, 11:38 PM
 
Maybe one day he'll be able to not bite the bait so readily.
     
subego
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Aug 14, 2011, 12:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
Ehh... Most of the times I've seen Rob get hostile, it's after he was baited by somebody.
User one: poke
User two: poke
Rob: eat shit and die mother****ers! AUGHHH! AUGHHH!
     
Lateralus
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Aug 14, 2011, 02:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
User one: poke
User two: poke
Rob: eat shit and die mother****ers! AUGHHH! AUGHHH!
It's like some bully who continuously ****s with a kid at school until that kid busts him in the face with a rock. Who's at fault? The kid was only minding his business...

There seems to be an impression among the users that because of Rob's past, it's okay to lay bait - even while he was back under agreement with the moderators.

If there's been one problem that has kept this issue alive for the past decade, it's that equal punishment is rarely handed out.
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
     
subego
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Aug 14, 2011, 02:44 AM
 
[backs away slowly as inter-moderator politics spill out into the street]
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 14, 2011, 04:49 AM
 
Next up: voodoo is only hostile because people start Blu-Ray and Apple software threads on this forum just to bait him.

WTF, Lateralus?
     
ghporter
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Aug 14, 2011, 07:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
[backs away slowly as inter-moderator politics spill out into the street]
Not so much that as differing approaches, and different amounts of time staff members have to be online. Some of us have felt that Rob was always looking for either 100% reinforcement of whatever it was he was saying or looking for a strong argument to participate in (i.e. a knock-down, drag-out war of words). Others felt that his posting history indicated that he could be a really interesting member if others didn't actively work at irritating him-which seemed to be pretty easy to do.

None of us wants to ban a contributing member. None of us wants wanton, chaotic rant-posts that get the whole membership agitated and spark side arguments and flame wars. While we expect civil behavior from everyone, we understand that an online forum is the least likely place for people to be on their best behavior all the time, and most of us have worked very hard at developing techniques for deescalating and calming the discussion before it gets really bad. Others of us seem to have a knack for handling things smoothly, whether through encouragement and coaxing or through hard-line "this is the way it is" techniques. Frankly, some times I've felt like a social worker and other times I've felt like a playground monitor.

But we're people too, and Rob has shown a talent for irritating even the coolest, most easy-going of people. I'll bet Mother Teresa would have thought strongly about back-handing him now and then... But be assured, the staff was never divided on the results we wanted in dealing with Rob (or any member). We all had our own ideas of what would work best, within our stated and practiced ideal of maximum freedom of expression within the limits of what allows all members to exercise that freedom.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Railroader
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Aug 14, 2011, 02:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
User one: poke
User two: poke
Rob: eat shit and die mother****ers! AUGHHH! AUGHHH!
Fixed™
     
Lateralus
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Aug 14, 2011, 05:03 PM
 
Thank you, Glenn.

Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Fixed™
You should probably abstain entirely from conversations over hostile board members.
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
     
ghporter
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Aug 14, 2011, 05:21 PM
 
Rob showed us a relatively short fuse, but Railroader's example is extremely oversimplified. His "fix" apparently omits the series of pokes from users A through W, typically building on each other's pokes... And without getting into too much detail, there are a number of members who have been (or felt they have been) targeted, with plenty of evidence of the "dog pile" mentality in the posting they complained about.

Rob certainly didn't demonstrate anything like angelic tolerance, but I am one staff member who generally felt that he didn't get to be the monster he looked like without a whole lot of "help" from a vocal and rather persistent few other members.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 14, 2011, 06:49 PM
 
Rob is belligerent, overbearing, and obsessive. While most of that attitude was reserved for automotive and electronics related threads, I don't think many people enjoyed "discussions" where they held views in opposition of rob's. His attitude in most of those discussions always felt like a mix of condescension and incredulousness (Either you're uninformed or you're stupid).

Also, the anger.
     
Railroader
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Aug 14, 2011, 07:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
You should probably abstain entirely from conversations over hostile board members.
Why? Just for the record I think the same thing about you. You've handled your mod duties in an extremely poor manner. It has led to the detriment of the forums in my opinion. For example, you probably should have sent that post in a PM.

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Rob showed us a relatively short fuse, but Railroader's example is extremely oversimplified. His "fix" apparently omits the series of pokes from users A through W, typically building on each other's pokes...
Perhaps a teeny-tiny bit, but it is FAR more accurate than the original post.

Let's review these posts from higher up in the thread:
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
... I hope it's clear that my point with this post isn't to degrade or incite, but respond to specific points calmly and ensure that my position is "reasoned, measured and presented civilly."
Indeed, I believe this is true. Laminar did not post anything that would ignite a reasonable persons's emotions. And yet a year later from when the thread was initially started Rob jumps in here with a childish profanity-laced insult directed at Laminar.

I think TI has nailed it quite well here [in response to one of Rob's posts]:
Originally Posted by ThinkInsane View Post
Yes, that's the whole problem. It's not you, it's everyone else. People make you come into threads and shit all over other people's choice in vehicles, with an attitude that is both petulant, condescending, and at times completely retarded. Have you ever, even just for a moment, thought that maybe, just maybe, you are wrong? Because that happens far more than you seem to think it does.

...
^^^^^^^This is it, in a nutshell^^^^^^^^
( Last edited by Railroader; Aug 14, 2011 at 08:20 PM. )
     
Lateralus
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Aug 14, 2011, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Why? Just for the record I think the same thing about you. You've handled your mod duties in an extremely poor manner. It has led to the detriment of the forums in my opinion. For example, you probably should have sent that post in a PM.
In all things, I gauge my performance by the opinion of those whom I have a certain... dislike for. Thank you for the affirmation.

I'm here to relocate threads, respond to user requests and kill spam. Anything else you think I should or shouldn't be doing is simply delusional conjecture.
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
     
Railroader
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Aug 14, 2011, 08:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
In all things, I gauge my performance by the opinion of those whom I have a certain... dislike for. Thank you for the affirmation.

I'm here to relocate threads, respond to user requests and kill spam. Anything else you think I should or shouldn't be doing is simply delusional conjecture.
Way to represent MacNN!!! I'm sure they love the rep you're giving.

Again, might be a good idea for you to take this to PM if you want to continue the dialog with me.

EDIT: Oh, and for ignoring all of the other points in my post.
     
Lateralus
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Aug 14, 2011, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Way to represent MacNN!!! I'm sure they love the rep you're giving.

Again, might be a good idea for you to take this to PM if you want to continue the dialog with me.
Represent? To who? There's nobody here who hasn't been around for the better part of a decade. I also have zero desire to initiate a private dialogue as there's nothing I've alluded to in this thread that you, me, every other member of the staff and every long standing member doesn't already know.

Though if you wish send me a message, you're more than welcome to do so.

Regardless; Stop trying to escalate and further this public exchange.
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Aug 14, 2011, 09:35 PM
 
Seriously, Lateralus, you just made Railroader's point abundantly clear.

It's really effed up if the result of stating a personal opinion is a temp ban.

That's so sad.

-t
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 14, 2011, 09:35 PM
 
Mods and administrators have the right to run these forums in the way that is seen fit to them, not to the users. It's not a democracy, and, luckily for MacNN, the leadership here is generally very well-balanced. I think that people get used to having fair moderators and admins and see that as a basis for freaking out when something doesn't go their way.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
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Aug 14, 2011, 09:36 PM
 
Weak.
Having a "defying moderation" punishment is the first step towards fascism, you know.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
turtle777
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Aug 14, 2011, 09:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I think that people get used to having fair moderators and admins and see that as a basis for freaking out when something doesn't go their way.
The above is everything but "fair".

Railroader stated his opinion, emotionally charged, maybe, but respectful and w/o any personal attacks.

-t
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 14, 2011, 09:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
The above is everything but "fair".

Railroader stated his opinion, emotionally charged, maybe, but respectful and w/o any personal attacks.

-t
I was referring more to the specifics of dealing with Rob, but yes, Lateralus tends to be very clear about who he doesn't like, in a very public and offensive manner, so it's no surprise that he ended up banned. I'm sure I'll have to keep my own mouth shut, since Lateralus likes to assume that I'm a rich white kid. And, though there was a better way to handle that dialogue, Lateralus is the mod, not us. He does have the right to handle the situation in whatever way he sees fit.

Edit: And now that we know that RR received two infractions before the ban, Lateralus' response does make more sense.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
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Aug 14, 2011, 09:42 PM
 
LOL, yes, rich kids that save money for 5 years to buy a car need to be banninated ASAP.

-t
     
Lateralus
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Aug 14, 2011, 09:42 PM
 
My, my... what a suspicious and timely rush of support.

RR continued to escalate with subsequent posts in spite of my first (public) warning, first infraction and second infraction. If you're looking for somebody to stick your neck out for, you (Doofy and Turtle) could do a lot better than RR. Especially considering he rarely argues to anybody else's benefit than his own.
( Last edited by Lateralus; Aug 19, 2011 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Spelling errors)
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
     
 
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