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CVS Kills RFID
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subego
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Oct 26, 2014, 10:47 AM
 
To cockblock Apple.

A side effect is my non-ApplePay CC RFID won't work either. Which is what happened yesterday.

Really good plan there, Ace.
     
Teronzhul
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Oct 26, 2014, 03:06 PM
 
Yeah, apparently they're backing some insane QR code based payment system that won't actually be available until next year.
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Oct 26, 2014, 03:09 PM
 
     
Thorzdad
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Oct 26, 2014, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Teronzhul View Post
Yeah, apparently they're backing some insane QR code based payment system that won't actually be available until next year.
Yeah, CurrenC is an insane kludge. Here's an article about it from a supporter of the system.
From the article, a quick overview of how it works...
• Using CurrentC, the point-of-sale displays a QR code for the customer to read with their phone.
• The QR code generates the payment token on the smartphone which verifies the shopper’s presence, identity and initiates the transaction between the merchant and the bank.
• The phone connects with the cloud for authorization and sends the approval to the merchant.
It's amazing that they're basing this system around QR codes. QR is all but dead as far as consumers are concerned, and this system is anything but user-friendly. Compare that QR-based system to NFC-based systems...
• Touch phone to sensor
Tell me which is the better consumer experience.

I like Gruber's take on this development.
Yes, I know...it's Gruber. But I think he's dead-on with this.
     
turtle777
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Oct 26, 2014, 04:54 PM
 
I'll happily continue to shop at Walgreens.

-t
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 26, 2014, 05:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
QR is all but dead as far as consumers are concerned...
Pictures of People Scanning QR-codes
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 26, 2014, 10:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I'll happily continue to shop at Walgreens.

-t
I'm set for a boycott.

It's not even an Apple fanboy thing. ApplePay has limited appeal to me because I just pull out my wallet and use the same system with the RFID on my credit card.

Like I've been doing at Walgreens and on the train and at the CVS for the last few years.
     
besson3c
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Oct 26, 2014, 11:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm set for a boycott.

It's not even an Apple fanboy thing. ApplePay has limited appeal to me because I just pull out my wallet and use the same system with the RFID on my credit card.

Like I've been doing at Walgreens and on the train and at the CVS for the last few years.

The difference is that, AFAIK, with your current system the transaction is still initiated by the merchant.
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 26, 2014, 11:07 PM
 
Which I can deal with.
     
besson3c
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Oct 26, 2014, 11:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Which I can deal with.
Under you are the victim of fraudulent activity, which AFAIK generally seems to originate at the merchant level.
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 26, 2014, 11:55 PM
 
Not responsible with a credit card, and their fraud operations department has a hair-trigger.

It's ultimately a mild annoyance.
     
turtle777
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Oct 27, 2014, 12:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
I like Gruber's take on this development.
Yes, I know...it's Gruber. But I think he's dead-on with this.
Indeed, he is.

The point that many people are going to miss is that CurrentC is ALL about customer data and tracking.

Apple Pay ensures anonymity.

-t
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 27, 2014, 01:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Not responsible with a credit card, and their fraud operations department has a hair-trigger.

It's ultimately a mild annoyance.
Amex's fraud prevention dept is the financial world's equivalent of Massad.
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starman
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Oct 27, 2014, 02:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
To cockblock Apple.

A side effect is my non-ApplePay CC RFID won't work either. Which is what happened yesterday.

Really good plan there, Ace.
It's not to cockblock Apple. They have no choice because of MCX.

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The Final Dakar
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Oct 27, 2014, 09:07 AM
 
The real world just doesn't make any damn sense. We have chains turning down valid transactions and inconveniencing customers for…. nothing.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 27, 2014, 09:24 AM
 
Oh yes, and the best part is some companies have had this tech for years, but now that its being used, they disable it.
     
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Oct 27, 2014, 10:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Amex's fraud prevention dept is the financial world's equivalent of Massad.
lol that is true, plus customer support is superior. I love AMEX. I once bought a radio from Radio Shack - the thing sucked so I returned it but those bastards wouldn't give me a refund. I made a call to AMEX, next thing you know the salesman is dead, the manager is dead, and I have cash in my hand.
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ort888
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Oct 27, 2014, 10:29 AM
 
In what word do they think that customers will move toward something that's actually more annoying to use than a credit card? Why would anyone on the planet do such a thing? How many incentives can they really offer to expect reasonable people to sync it to their banks routing number and scan TWO QR codes per interaction?

It's just lunacy.

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osiris
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Oct 27, 2014, 10:30 AM
 
oh, this thing about CVS - I think it's not CVS per se, but the fly by night payment system they opted for. I've been going to them more infrequently over the years, they tend to be a rip off anyway. They also have this 'business' model where they exclude all competing products from the store shelves and purposely display the worst selection of the competitor's goods to make the CVS generic brand look good. Then they overcharge you for generic brand! A nickel!
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ort888
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Oct 27, 2014, 10:37 AM
 
Yeah, CVS has just moved into our area and overall I'm not impressed. They're like a Walgreens, but cleaner and with a worse selection. Both are overpriced. Why go to a CVS when I can go another block and hit a grocery store or Target with better prices and way way better stuff to buy?

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starman
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Oct 27, 2014, 11:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
oh, this thing about CVS - I think it's not CVS per se, but the fly by night payment system they opted for. I've been going to them more infrequently over the years, they tend to be a rip off anyway. They also have this 'business' model where they exclude all competing products from the store shelves and purposely display the worst selection of the competitor's goods to make the CVS generic brand look good. Then they overcharge you for generic brand! A nickel!
Pretty much this. They made the deal with MCX long before Apple Pay was a thing. Even though Google Wallet was used there, it never caught on because of all the problems with carriers cockblocking it (Verizon/AT&T) before KitKat.

Similarly, that whole ISIS/SOftcard system is a perfect example of how MCX is going to fail.

Also, you know it's going to fail because it has an "X" in it, like "DIVX"

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subego  (op)
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Oct 27, 2014, 11:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
It's not to cockblock Apple. They have no choice because of MCX.
MCX isn't trying to cockblock Apple?
     
ort888
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Oct 27, 2014, 11:38 AM
 
So when you sign up for this, they need your banks routing number, your social security number and your drivers license number.

And then when you pay you have to launch an app and scan TWO QR codes? It's going to take 5 times longer than swiping a credit card.

Who is going to sign up and use this system? What benefit does it offer a customer over a credit card?

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starman
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Oct 27, 2014, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
MCX isn't trying to cockblock Apple?
MCX is, not CVS specifically.

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Oct 27, 2014, 12:06 PM
 
I doubt that CVS was even aware of the block, tbh. It's their provider not wanting to share a large chunk of their processing fee with Apple (and it's kind of hard to blame them).
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subego  (op)
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Oct 27, 2014, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
MCX is, not CVS specifically.
Then I would question the phrasing, "it's not to cockblock Apple".
     
starman
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Oct 27, 2014, 03:50 PM
 

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Thorzdad
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Oct 27, 2014, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
What benefit does it offer a customer over a credit card?
None.
Then again, the consumer isn't the real customer for this. The whole point of this ridiculous system is the collection and sharing of consumer information among the MCX consortium members.

I suspect consumers will be lured into signing up by the usual methods...Discounts, coupons, cash backs, etc.
     
osiris
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Oct 27, 2014, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
None.
Then again, the consumer isn't the real customer for this. The whole point of this ridiculous system is the collection and sharing of consumer information among the MCX consortium members.

I suspect consumers will be lured into signing up by the usual methods...Discounts, coupons, cash backs, etc.
exactly... then they sell your info, send you spam, robo call, etc....
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subego  (op)
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Oct 27, 2014, 07:42 PM
 
Walgreens just decided in the last day or two to streamline their NFC system.

Coincidence?
     
Cold Warrior
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Oct 27, 2014, 08:55 PM
 
MCX is the new cheque writing granny. The MCX folks will slow us all down. Shoppers please have your app open and QR ready to scan!
     
turtle777
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Oct 27, 2014, 10:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
MCX is the new cheque writing granny. The MCX folks will slow us all down. Shoppers please have your app open and QR ready to scan!
LOL, so true.

However, MCX is not going survive longer than a few short years.
Beta tests in MN already show that people hate it.

Soon, the companies that use MCX will figure out that stores that take Apple Pay will have increasing sales, and stores that use MCX will have decreasing sales.
At first, they'll deny the facts, then they'll give in and abandon MCX.

It's DOA.

-t
     
starman
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Oct 29, 2014, 01:14 PM
 

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Mike Wuerthele
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Oct 29, 2014, 01:42 PM
 
Or, you know, our story with more information:

CurrentC payment system customer emails stolen | Electronista
     
Thorzdad
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Oct 30, 2014, 07:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
However, MCX is not going survive longer than a few short years.
Beta tests in MN already show that people hate it.
If you have some more information on the testing, or a link, please dish!
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2014, 07:54 AM
 
Beta tests receiving bad feedback don't mean the product won't survive because it can always pivot and reinvent itself.

The CurrentC concept isn't bad, the customer experience simply has to improve (as well as the security model, perhaps)
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 30, 2014, 08:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The CurrentC concept isn't bad
I reject this notion. It's a company driven model, focused on company needs, ignores having any customer benefits and relies on a cumbersome method. It is the epitome of bad.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2014, 09:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I reject this notion. It's a company driven model, focused on company needs, ignores having any customer benefits and relies on a cumbersome method. It is the epitome of bad.

The ignoring of the customer benefits is what I addressed in the second part of what you were quoting:

The CurrentC concept isn't bad, the customer experience simply has to improve (as well as the security model, perhaps)
The customer benefits could ultimately be lower costs if the retailers choose to pass these savings on to their customers. With an NFC based system of self-scanning barcodes, it could also result in (like a number of CurrentC's competitors), eventually not needing a checkout person to scan your items and take your card, security and PCI compliance (your financial info not having to touch the merchant's systems), and more.
     
Thorzdad
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Oct 30, 2014, 09:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The CurrentC concept isn't bad, the customer experience simply has to improve (as well as the security model, perhaps)
The problem is that the customer experience is entirely driven by the use of the QR codes. But, the CurrentC concept hinges on the use of QR. And, as I see it, the only real way to improve customer experience is to eliminate the QR codes, which would seem to gut CurrentC completely.

CurrentC could, I suppose, pivot and switch to an NFC model, but that would mean turning-on the NFC readers in stores, which also means GoogleWallet and ApplePay would start working again, unless MCX "embraces and extends" the NFC standard in a way that locks-out Google and Apple (and anyone else).
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 30, 2014, 09:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The customer benefits could ultimately be lower costs if the retailers choose to pass these savings on to their customers.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2014, 09:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post

I couldn't agree more that it would be hopelessly naive to think that this would happen any time soon, but over time (a lot of it) it might very well allow for more aggressive retail competition.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2014, 09:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
The problem is that the customer experience is entirely driven by the use of the QR codes. But, the CurrentC concept hinges on the use of QR. And, as I see it, the only real way to improve customer experience is to eliminate the QR codes, which would seem to gut CurrentC completely.

CurrentC could, I suppose, pivot and switch to an NFC model, but that would mean turning-on the NFC readers in stores, which also means GoogleWallet and ApplePay would start working again, unless MCX "embraces and extends" the NFC standard in a way that locks-out Google and Apple (and anyone else).

I predict that they will eventually pivot and support NFC, particularly once the critical mass of smartphone owners have an NFC capable device (they don't, currently). I'm not sure what options, if any, exist to bringing NFC to users that don't have this tech baked into their phones.

Mind you, the company might be bought out by somebody else by the time this happens, but if they have any significant IP I'm sure it will survive in some form.
     
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Oct 30, 2014, 10:19 AM
 
Here's one that will annoy some people, the AmEx RFID system still works at CVS (we tried it this morning at my local store).
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 30, 2014, 10:23 AM
 
What really confuses me is they're claiming that they removed it for contractual reasons, yet people were still using google pay before hand.

And god knows if Shaddim's example is a violation of the contract.
     
ort888
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Oct 30, 2014, 11:03 AM
 
I understand why the retailers are so eager to get away from the credit card companies. Their profit margins are so slim anyway, Visa taking an extra 2-4% on top of that has to suck.

That said, Apple Pay is a delivery system. It only works with credit cards right now, but there is nothing stopping it from working with almost anything. Even CurrentC.

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Oct 30, 2014, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
And god knows if Shaddim's example is a violation of the contract.
Google Wallet has been out since 2011, these stores have been in violation of their contract since then. It's just that nobody cared until one form of mobile payments got popular. (To be honest, I'm a bit surprised how quickly Apple Pay got on the radar, but that was because I did not know that it will work with any NFC-enabled terminal.)
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