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The rich are scum
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mattyb
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Mar 16, 2015, 04:46 PM
 
BBC News - Does money make you mean?

EDIT : please keep this out of the Pol/War, I've been self-banned from there.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 16, 2015, 04:48 PM
 
I was going to say something about BMW drivers being assholes and then the article deals with exactly that.

But honestly, I don't know if I can believe this article after years of being told its the underprivileged who have entitlement issues.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 16, 2015, 04:51 PM
 
"You can award your employee a trip to Hawaii. People do not think about money when they go to Hawaii."
Really? Because my first reaction is to wonder how much of it is free.
     
andi*pandi
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Mar 16, 2015, 05:31 PM
 
if given the choice between a trip to hawaii, and the COST of a trip to hawaii, I'd probably take the money to pay bills etc. However, I would not turn down a trip to Hawaii... my work's usual bonuses are much smaller!
     
boy8cookie
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Mar 16, 2015, 06:43 PM
 
If it's not an "all expenses paid" type of trip to Hawaii I wouldn't recommend it. Everything is more expensive here. Gas, food, lodging, transportation. I live here, I know.
     
subego
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Mar 16, 2015, 06:50 PM
 
What's a plate lunch go for these days?
     
subego
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Mar 16, 2015, 06:56 PM
 
I felt like I was a bigger dick driver when I wasn't driving a BMW, but I was younger, and had a smaller car.

People are definitely bigger dicks to me driving the BMW than they were when I had a Cherokee.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 16, 2015, 07:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
If it's not an "all expenses paid" type of trip to Hawaii I wouldn't recommend it.
My point exactly. I don't know who hears they're getting a free trip to Hawaii and doesn't wonder how much is covered.

Of course, people are stupider than expected.
     
turtle777
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Mar 16, 2015, 07:59 PM
 
I borrowed my BMW permanently from my uncle, so I'm good, right ?

-t
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 16, 2015, 09:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I felt like I was a bigger dick driver when I wasn't driving a BMW, but I was younger, and had a smaller car.

People are definitely bigger dicks to me driving the BMW than they were when I had a Cherokee.
Yep. Depends on the car. New BMWs, Mercs, and Porsches get treated poorly in traffic, old ones get treated like anyone else, though. Exotic cars (Ferraris, McLarens, and Lambos) are usually seen as "unicorns" however, people yanking out their phones to get pictures, yelling comments out their windows. They're too entranced to be mean.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 16, 2015, 09:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I borrowed my BMW permanently from my uncle, so I'm good, right ?

-t
What model?
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turtle777
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Mar 17, 2015, 12:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
What model?
335d

My uncle will have to pry it out of my cold hands ;-)

-t
     
boy8cookie
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Mar 17, 2015, 01:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What's a plate lunch go for these days?
$9+
     
subego
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Mar 17, 2015, 05:03 AM
 
That's more expensive than I would have thought.

For those not lucky enough to have had one, a plate lunch is considered cheap food.
     
Phileas
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Mar 17, 2015, 08:20 AM
 
Peter Thiel, one of the founders of PayPal, argues in Zero to One, that nobody knows what to do with money. Not the rich, not corporations. It's a fascinating read by a wealthy man who has thought about money a lot.
     
ghporter
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Mar 17, 2015, 09:44 AM
 
It's not about income (or wealth), nor what car you drive. It's about attitude. I drive a BMW and I am not a jerk. I see other people driving BMWs, Mercedes, Cadillacs, etc. like hemorrhoids, but I also see people driving Mitsubishis like hemorrhoids. Seeing the "status symbol" logo connotes something to the observer, which changes how the observation is interpreted. For the record, my BMW was much more affordable than you might think, with a base price BELOW similar vehicles from Acura. Plus I got a discount through my bank, and I made the salesman work hard for that deal...

People who drive BMWs like jerks are jerks driving BMWs. They are also probably jerks in elevators, jerks on the sidewalk, and jerks in restaurants.

Anyway... It's still all about attitude.

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The Final Dakar
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Mar 17, 2015, 09:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
It's not about income (or wealth), nor what car you drive. It's about attitude.
So... you know better than the study? The study found a correlation between attitude and what you drive.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 17, 2015, 09:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Peter Thiel, one of the founders of PayPal, argues in Zero to One, that nobody knows what to do with money. Not the rich, not corporations. It's a fascinating read by a wealthy man who has thought about money a lot.
He has quite a few... interesting opinions.
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Mar 17, 2015, 10:03 AM
 
Philanthropy is a great equalizer. The more you give, the better you can relate to those who have substantially less. Especially when you spend time seeing where your money is going and how it's being used to effect change. Altruism and performing generous deeds gives you purpose, in essence, it not only makes you a better person in other people's eyes, it makes you a much happier one as well (it releases a lot of serotonin).

Science of Generosity: Why Giving Makes You Happy | The New Republic
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mattyb  (op)
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Mar 17, 2015, 12:57 PM
 
I see a difference in attitude when I drive my wife's car, a little Hyundai Getz. Nobody gives a flying **** about you.

When we lived in Egypt, my father had one of the the largest pick-ups of the time. It was raised up, had large sand tyres, a light bar and a very artisanal attempt at bull bars front and back with integrated winches. My mother used to love driving it cos nobody ****ed with you.
     
mattyb  (op)
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Mar 17, 2015, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Peter Thiel, one of the founders of PayPal, argues in Zero to One, that nobody knows what to do with money. Not the rich, not corporations. It's a fascinating read by a wealthy man who has thought about money a lot.
I'll try and grab his book.

Corporations are strange beasts. I've worked for a few large ones and have the opinion that after a certain size (no idea what size it is) it becomes unmanageable. Can't remember where I heard it but theres a phrase that is something like 'once there are HR people doing the hiring, the company is too big'.
     
subego
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Mar 17, 2015, 01:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
I'll try and grab his book.

Corporations are strange beasts. I've worked for a few large ones and have the opinion that after a certain size (no idea what size it is) it becomes unmanageable. Can't remember where I heard it but theres a phrase that is something like 'once there are HR people doing the hiring, the company is too big'.
I heard Kevin Rose say this is how Digg got away from him. As things were starting to topple over, he realized he had never even met the majority of his employees.
     
Jawbone54
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Mar 17, 2015, 02:10 PM
 
It's not just the rich.

Yes, many (but, importantly, not all) rich people have attitudes, but a lot of rich people are rich BECAUSE of their attitudes. I haven't met a lot of passive wealthy people — they're typically Type A folks with less time than you.

That said, I've worked closely with two of the nicest, most generous men in our community who happen to be multi-millionaires, but you'd never know it. They volunteer at the local shelters, donate liberally to overseas needs, and always have a smile ready for anyone they meet. Rules, exceptions, etc.

Here in the South, the terrors of our roads usually drive trucks with lift kits and mud tires.
     
iMOTOR
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Mar 17, 2015, 04:43 PM
 
What if your BMW is powered by an ancient Ford V8?
     
Snow-i
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Mar 17, 2015, 11:23 PM
 
Everybody sucks in their own way. It isn't how much money you have, or how much you don't have. An asshole is still an asshole whether you're wiping it with a 1 or a 100.

People suck.
     
ghporter
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Mar 18, 2015, 08:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Everybody sucks in their own way. It isn't how much money you have, or how much you don't have. An asshole is still an asshole whether you're wiping it with a 1 or a 100.

People suck.
Yep. People who don't give a flying flip about what others think of them tend to seem less "warm and cuddly" than those who work at seeming warm and cuddly. People who don't give a flying flip about others seem to go out of their way to be rude, when actually they just don't care about anyone else. Knowing that I have an impact on the impression I make on others - and how they react to me in public space - I am more aware of them and their behavior. That lets me be appropriately warm and cuddly, or aloof, or whatever.

Money doesn't make people jerks, but it tends to facilitate behaviors that make jerkiness show up, some of which is seen with buying "status symbol" vehicles/clothing/etc., or other very visible behaviors. Jerks without money are still jerks, but they are often less visible because we tend to pay less attention to some people in public. "Don't make eye contact with the pan handler, Junior. Just pretend he isn't there."

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 18, 2015, 11:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Everybody sucks in their own way. It isn't how much money you have, or how much you don't have. An asshole is still an asshole whether you're wiping it with a 1 or a 100.

People suck.
You're arguing the nature argument. This is more about the nurture argument. Which is having a lot of money helps make people who would otherwise be fine, into assholes.
     
osiris
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Mar 18, 2015, 12:19 PM
 
Rich people are not scum, it's the rich assholes that are scum.
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Jawbone54
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Mar 18, 2015, 02:07 PM
 
There we go.
     
Thorzdad
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Mar 18, 2015, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
People are definitely bigger dicks to me driving the BMW than they were when I had a Cherokee.
At least where I live, the BMW drivers can't compare to the Suburban and Dodge Ram drivers for sheer, unadulterated dickishness.
     
BadKosh
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Mar 18, 2015, 02:10 PM
 
About 35% of any group will be assholes. People over 6' tall, blacks, whites, college grads, IT support...ANY group.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 18, 2015, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
About 35% of any group will be assholes. People over 6' tall, blacks, whites, college grads, IT support...ANY group.
Nuns
     
osiris
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Mar 18, 2015, 02:26 PM
 
...in station wagons.
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osiris
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Mar 18, 2015, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
At least where I live, the BMW drivers can't compare to the Suburban and Dodge Ram drivers for sheer, unadulterated dickishness.
Ah yes, the Suburban. Nothing worse than a women behind the wheel of one - they're just so oblivious to their mass. But men are actually just as bad, because they just run over you. Total dicks.
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The Final Dakar
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Mar 18, 2015, 02:36 PM
 
As soon as it snows, god forbid you're driving too slow for the dude in the Tahoe.
     
Snow-i
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Mar 18, 2015, 04:32 PM
 
Our society nurtures people to be assholes no matter how much money they have. People would otherwise be fine if they weren't nurtured by other people. Attributing money to being an ass hole is like attributing wealth to homosexuality - everyone's got an anecdote and their own stereotypes, but in reality your personal wealth has little to no bearing on how nice you are to other people.

It's just easy to hate on people and things that are different than you. If you identify as poor, you're way more likely to think rich people are scum. If you identify as rich, it's vice versa. It's the same underlying rationale that causes dems and republicans to hate one another.

Social Identity Theory | Simply Psychology
     
Snow-i
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Mar 18, 2015, 04:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
As soon as it snows, god forbid you're driving too slow for the dude in the Tahoe.
Or the dude in the Tahoe is driving too fast for the conditions, depending on your preferable speed in those conditions.

We evolved and are conditioned to become upset when our "expectations" are violated.

Expectancy violations theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Violation Valence is the perceived positive or negative value assigned to a breach of expectations, Regardless of who the violator is.[22] Once you have determined,that someone’s behaviour was, in fact, a breach of expectation, you then judge the behaviour in question. This breach is known as the violation valence—the positive or negative evaluation you make about a behaviour that you did not anticipate. The difference between the negative violation and the negative confirmation do not appear significant. Dis-confirmations tend to intensify the outcomes,especially in the positive violation condition.[23]
     
Jawbone54
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Mar 18, 2015, 07:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
At least where I live, the BMW drivers can't compare to ... Dodge Ram drivers for sheer, unadulterated dickishness.
I'd have that problem too, if I had to drive a Dodge.

Also...

...sheer, unadulterated dickishness.
Amazing words. They roll off the tongue when said aloud.
     
besson3c
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Mar 18, 2015, 08:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Peter Thiel, one of the founders of PayPal, argues in Zero to One, that nobody knows what to do with money. Not the rich, not corporations. It's a fascinating read by a wealthy man who has thought about money a lot.
Great book!
     
el chupacabra
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Mar 19, 2015, 01:14 AM
 
Everybody's scum, it's probably just the rich can get away with expressing their scumyness more often and openly as their success isn't dependent on everyone else's opinions of them. Everyone who's not rich has to put on a PC/fake attitude to some higher degree, if at the very least to avoid losing their job.

I think the best way to judge people is see how they treat people when they're stressed out; perhaps at their worst point in life, vs how they treat people when they're experiencing their best times in life.
     
subego
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Mar 19, 2015, 10:37 AM
 
Do we count getting up in the morning as stress?

Because I'm totally scummy to people when I've just woken up.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 19, 2015, 10:54 AM
 
I think most of it is being distracted (though some of it is apathy too) and not being purposely dickish. People who are financially successful are usually exceptional multitaskers, doing and thinking about numerous things at once, and aren't placing a very high priority on social graces a good deal of the time. As an example, I've heard of numerous situations where Warren Buffett would get up and leave during a meeting with someone else, without giving an explanation he just gets up and walks out, because he has an idea (or several) and has already said all he wants to say to the other person.
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The Final Dakar
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Mar 19, 2015, 11:29 AM
 
ITT: People try desperately to pretend having money can't affect people's personalities in a negative manner, despite the whole history of humanity.

Next, you guys will tell me you don't believe being poor makes you dumber.
     
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Mar 19, 2015, 11:34 AM
 
That's....just being dickish. He just gets a pass because he's filthy rich. Hahaha.
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subego
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Mar 19, 2015, 12:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
ITT: People try desperately to pretend having money can't affect people's personalities in a negative manner, despite the whole history of humanity.

Next, you guys will tell me you don't believe being poor makes you dumber.
I think the idea is what's being floated as a direct correlation is more complicated than that.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 19, 2015, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think the idea is what's being floated as a direct correlation is more complicated than that.
Not really. We have some people claiming all people are assholes. We have others saying a specific percentage of all groups of people are assholes. We have yet others claiming its society making these people into assholes. We others who say its misperception of whatever skills made them rich (Maybe poor assholes are temporarily embarrassed millionaires?). What we do not have is people who are willing to accept the conclusion of the article even though it includes some scientific study.

Maybe if I put in SAT form I'll get less pushback (HA!): Alcohol is to Addiction as Money is to Assholishness.
     
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Mar 19, 2015, 12:49 PM
 
I think we're all assholes in the making, some are just really good at it.
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subego
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Mar 19, 2015, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Not really. We have some people claiming all people are assholes. We have others saying a specific percentage of all groups of people are assholes. We have yet others claiming its society making these people into assholes. We others who say its misperception of whatever skills made them rich (Maybe poor assholes are temporarily embarrassed millionaires?). What we do not have is people who are willing to accept the conclusion of the article even though it includes some scientific study.
It's almost as if you can't boil objective truth about the human condition into an unassailable, one-sentence statement.
     
besson3c
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Mar 19, 2015, 01:37 PM
 
The rich are scum, but not necessarily because of their personal characters, but because of the power they are afforded in our society.

The rich can buy the politicians they want, and get these politicians to facilitate the greatest tax and financial benefits for them under the guise of these silly economic principles that don't hold up. They are given a great platform to express themselves, in the case of celebs they are given lots of special attention (which can be good and bad), and have obvious privileges that goes with the territory.

This is not always fair, and the unfairness of some of these situations is what makes them scum - at least those that take advantage of their status. It's not fair because the deciding factors are not always based on what we think they are or would like them to be (hard work, etc.) Certain kinds of work have built in financial upsides, and this isn't always based on what we would like this to based on (i.e. the importance/stature of the work). For example, there are probably software developers that allow teenagers to send each other poop emoticons that make more money than hard working teachers.

Again, it's not always/necessarily the personal characters of these rich people that are scum, but this whole system reeks of scum.
     
osiris
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Mar 19, 2015, 01:50 PM
 
Ouch.

Bite the hand that feeds you!
( Last edited by osiris; Mar 19, 2015 at 02:03 PM. )
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