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Brexit? (Page 4)
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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 26, 2016, 10:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
This is rich. blah blah blah
Yup. You're a damned liar, and you're salty about it too.

(and you got several of your "facts" about me wrong, but I don't care enough about you to sort you out.)

Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
or simply make everyone heres life better by heading out the out door. While your at it you could usefully improve the lives of everyone that has the unwitting misfortune to meet you in real life by locking yourself in a room for the rest of your life. Maybe someone could pass food under the door.

Given your posting history here that's most likely where you are anyway. I hope your doctors eventually get the medication right.
Yup, I definitely feel for your kids, more than ever.
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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 26, 2016, 10:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
That doesn't make it the best, let alone the prettiest. Mustangs are way cheaper than classic Ferraris for a start. Like 'accessible to the man in the street" cheaper. To buy and to insure.
Never said it was, but it's a classic design that is quite attractive, artful, and has millions of fans, even in snooty Euro-land. So when people lie like this:

The Mustang is not and never has been thing in Europe.
just to get a dig in. I take issue with it.
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Paco500
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Jun 26, 2016, 10:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yup. You're a damned liar, and you're salty about it too.
Point out single lie I told. You can't, because I didn't.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
(and you got several of your "facts" about me wrong, but I don't care enough about you to sort you out.)
None of what I posted were facts. They were bald faced lies you told to big yourself up and manufacture credibility for you absurd arguments. Because you are a liar. You lie constantly. Without hesitation. You may not care about me- you have no reason to, it doesn't surprise me. But do you care about your reputation?

Even if you do, you can't salvage it. People on this board have been tiptoeing around it for years, but it's out in the open now. I'm calling you a liar and the issue is not that you will not defend yourself- you can't. Because you told absurd lies.

$100 for 'your' charity not enough? How much do you want to simply post some very easy to source evidence. Well it would be easy to post if it existed. But is doesn't. Because you are a sad little man that has to tell lies on the internet to make himself feel better.

The only other possible option is that this is some kind of long-form trolling. If so, kudos, well done.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yup, I definitely feel for your kids, more than ever.
You really are a pathetic excuse for a human being.

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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 26, 2016, 11:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
(someone call the WHAAAmbulance)
The liar saying "Nuh, uh, you are!" Brilliant. I do enjoy your tantrums, they're reason enough for me to never satisfy your curiosity. So delicious.
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el chupacabra
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Jun 27, 2016, 12:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I want manufacturing to move abroad to the cheap labour. I want us building more high tech stuff. Planes and spacecraft. Complex machinery, artisan stuff. Stuff that requires more skilled labour.
If Britain wants to be great again, it needs to look further forward than ever before not get stuck in the past which is what its doing this week.
Rolls Royce with their single crystal turbine blades. Thats the sort of shit we need to be manufacturing.
Lets say I have too short an attention span and am kinda too dumb for "skilled" labor. I want a 3P/hr, easy manufacturing job that I can do, LOCALLY. But people like you are essentially voting to take away my right to this kind of labor - because ya'll seem to believe in the star trek universe where everyone's a fast learning ambitious engineer, scientist or leader. Or maybe it just makes us feel better to exploit people overseas with cost savings mostly due to unsafe work conditions, rather than have it in our own backyard. IOW where are all the dumb people like me suppose to work? Do you really want me in the plant making your crystal wachamacallit blades for the jet you'll be flying on? Or does my class just stay on welfare?

3D printing tech is going to kill foreign factories before too long and then there will likely be some kind of IP apocalypse.
I dont see that as likely. Maybe in the very very distant future. Imagine trying to 3d print something as simple as a blender.
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Jun 27, 2016, 01:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
I dont see that as likely. Maybe in the very very distant future. Imagine trying to 3d print something as simple as a blender.
why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-should-know-i-do-it-for a living
I don't have a strong opinion on Brexit, I'll leave that to the Britons. But that 3D printing link was an informative read. Thanks.
     
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Jun 27, 2016, 04:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
And the people who signed it after the results were in? Just a guess, but I'd wager the vast majority of them were from the side that lost the referendum.
Probably. Just posted that because it was funny, there are sore losers on all sides.

(I don't support redoing the referendum. If the vote is done, you live with the results. You have to show that the vote was somehow unfair or that the situation has changed in some significant way if you want to redo it. The turnout is not a reason - it was high compared to what the UK usually gets, even if it was low compared to many other countries.)
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Jun 27, 2016, 04:57 AM
 
So Johnson has surfaced. He says:

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe – and always will be  

* Immigration wasn't the reason for the vote
* Saying that a close result means that some compromises must be made (ie, now I have an excuse to back away from promises I never meant to keep)
* EU citizens in Britain and Brits in the EU will have their rights protected, and basically, free movement of people will continue.
* The UK wants to retain access to the common market.
* The UK apparently wants to stay in some EU programs on science, university education, environment etc?

So basically, the UK will restrict immigration from outside the EU, which was never the concern and not much of an issue anyway, but keep free movement from inside the EU, which is what the UKIPers were concerned about. The UK will have to pay to keep access to the common market, which costs the same as the membership fee, so there is no saving there. Basically the only real change he mentions is that the UK will no longer have to abide by EU regulations - well, except those that will be required to keep access to the common market.

Basically, he portrays this as no big change. He also claims that they will save money, but at the same time says that they will retain access to the common market, which has a pricetag, so that won't happen.

Meanwhile, Labour shadow secretaries are leaving one after another, trying to push Corbyn out, and he replaces them with cronies, and the markets keep tumbling.
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Doc HM
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
So Johnson has surfaced. He says:

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe – and always will be  

* Immigration wasn't the reason for the vote
* Saying that a close result means that some compromises must be made (ie, now I have an excuse to back away from promises I never meant to keep)
* EU citizens in Britain and Brits in the EU will have their rights protected, and basically, free movement of people will continue.
* The UK wants to retain access to the common market.
* The UK apparently wants to stay in some EU programs on science, university education, environment etc?

So basically, the UK will restrict immigration from outside the EU, which was never the concern and not much of an issue anyway, but keep free movement from inside the EU, which is what the UKIPers were concerned about. The UK will have to pay to keep access to the common market, which costs the same as the membership fee, so there is no saving there. Basically the only real change he mentions is that the UK will no longer have to abide by EU regulations - well, except those that will be required to keep access to the common market.

Basically, he portrays this as no big change. He also claims that they will save money, but at the same time says that they will retain access to the common market, which has a pricetag, so that won't happen.

Meanwhile, Labour shadow secretaries are leaving one after another, trying to push Corbyn out, and he replaces them with cronies, and the markets keep tumbling.
I feel that a lot of people really didn't understand the differences between the EU and the common market (which was basically a british idea in the first place. Rule one of the common market was always free movement of goods and people. This makes any talk of curbing migration a moot point as it was the fear of a flood of immigration from the east that fuelled many out votes.

Boris has also promised that british farmers will keep all the payment currenlt being made under the CAP. That 350 million a week is looking like it's being sliced many ways at the same time.

My one fear is the position of Turkey. Cameron promised that Turkish entry into the EU was at least twenty years away, but the EU has proved adepts at moving goalposts in the past. Turkey really does fail entry requirements on pretty much every front. It would be laughable to find us out, but in AND Turkey a member!

Funnier things have happened.
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:31 AM
 
Everyone seems to be backing away from the large red button. Cameron has bailed, Johnson seems happy to kick it into the long grass.
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Waragainstsleep
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
This.

I didn't like the vote so lets redo it with new rules!
They are suggested new rules, suggested by someone from the side that won. Hence the funny.
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yup, I definitely feel for your kids, more than ever.
Well I find you entertaining.

Admittedly it's in the "look at that drunken person making a fool of themselves over there, I wonder what will happen next oh dear he's soiled himself" sort of way, or maybe in a village idiot "they seem like english words but they don't make english sense" sort of way"

So you have that going on.

Which is something.
( Last edited by Doc HM; Jun 27, 2016 at 09:10 AM. )
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Yes, the 350 million Pounds per week/50 million Pounds per day figure was one of Farage's standard talking points (e. g. go to the 1:30 mark of this BBC interview from February 2016). And the number was also on his bus together with the suggestion that the money could go to the NHS instead.

I need to clarify something here:

The bus with the ad belonged to the official Vote Leave campaign, Nigel Farage never did. Boris and Michael Gove (nor any of the other Tories) would be seen dead with Nigel Farage because UKIP is to the BNP as Sinn Fein was to the IRA), which is why he is arguing that technically he never made the claims, he's saying that Boris, Mike and IDS are at fault. Except he did make very very similar claims more than once, just never in vinyl on the side of a bus.
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
Bingo.

Seems very right-wing, almost fascist to be so uncivilized as to ignore the legal democratic process when the results don't suit you.
That means you're all for it then right?
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:42 AM
 
Well, suggesting the money "could" go to the NHS, vs. "will" go, is a huge difference.

Alas, it's up to the voters now to vote for a party that will make it happen.
It's not impossible, is it ?

-t
     
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:52 AM
 
I can tell you that non-UK Europeans are getting pretty pissed at the shenanigans the Johnsons and Farages pull: do they really think they can use the Brexit referendum as leverage to force a change in terms of EU membership? And for their most ardent supporters, don't they come across as spineless and dishonest? They seem surprised that they have actually won the elections, and now don't seem to know what to do with it. All of the consequences were obvious, e. g. that Cameron would resign and that Scotland would reconsider leaving Britain. And most importantly, that the next 1~2 governments would have more than their plates full renegotiating all these “great deals”.
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
The bus with the ad belonged to the official Vote Leave campaign, Nigel Farage never did.
I stand corrected on the bus. But Farage did use this very same figure and argument in interviews and discussion rounds all the time (I've posted one example where he did).
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
… which is why he is arguing that technically he never made the claims, he's saying that Boris, Mike and IDS are at fault.
Oh, but he did, there is plenty of video footage out there (I posted one example).
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Well, suggesting the money "could" go to the NHS, vs. "will" go, is a huge difference.

Alas, it's up to the voters now to vote for a party that will make it happen.
It's not impossible, is it ?

-t
It's impossible because the money won't be there. But yes, your right, leave voters should be willing to call out any party standing at the next election and NOT living up to this "promise" and vote elsewhere.

There may be a lot of anger over the coming months as the reality of the limited amount of disengagement from Europe that we will be willing/able to do is unlikely to match the rhetoric fuelled expectations of the electorate.

Maybe Nigel is going to get another bite at the cherry.
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:05 AM
 
I think we all were pretty disgusted by Farage already, but we all have some loons howling on the fringes of the political debate - that is not specific to the UK. Johnson is a bit more surprising. He at the very least should have understood what would happen, and he clearly plans to run the country rather than watching it all burn - yet his plan to do so seems to be wishful thinking.
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Well, suggesting the money "could" go to the NHS, vs. "will" go, is a huge difference.
I think that's splitting hairs in this context and won't curry them any favors with their supporters. In their view they are still weaseling out on their promises. (Campaign slogans don't leave a lot of room for subtlety.) That's why using overinflated numbers in your slogans which force you to make promises you won't be able to keep is a two-edged sword.
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Alas, it's up to the voters now to vote for a party that will make it happen.
It's not impossible, is it ?
Looking at how Johnson has changed his rhetoric after the referendum, I don't think that's likely. While I was and am for remain, I think it's more important that politicians take the outcome of a democratic referendum seriously. If they don't, they will earn the wrath of the voters (they're just the same as everyone else).
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
I think we all were pretty disgusted by Farage already, but we all have some loons howling on the fringes of the political debate - that is not specific to the UK.
True, but even Farage backpedalled
Originally Posted by P View Post
Johnson is a bit more surprising. He at the very least should have understood what would happen, and he clearly plans to run the country rather than watching it all burn - yet his plan to do so seems to be wishful thinking.
There are moments in life which show what someone is made off. Now we know what cloth Johnson is cut from, he doesn't seem to have the gonads to follow through with his grand plans of Britain outside of the EU. When dealing with hypotheticals things are so much easier, and you don't risk running your country into the ground.
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Probably. Just posted that because it was funny, there are sore losers on all sides.

(I don't support redoing the referendum. If the vote is done, you live with the results. You have to show that the vote was somehow unfair or that the situation has changed in some significant way if you want to redo it. The turnout is not a reason - it was high compared to what the UK usually gets, even if it was low compared to many other countries.)
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
True, but even Farage backpedalled

There are moments in life which show what someone is made off. Now we know what cloth Johnson is cut from,

Well we did have his time as mayor of London to go on. He was also sacked from his previous day job as a journalist for making stories up, so...
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:50 AM
 
This might seem like a strange question, but now that the UK will move towards independence from the EU, how would someone who wants to support the UK through it's transition to independence do so? Patronize UK business? Book a travel holiday in the UK?
     
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Jun 27, 2016, 10:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
Now the UK, gets to decide what it wants to do with that money, instead of transferring it to Brussels. A citizen of the UK, can now vote for and thus decide on whether or not to spend it on infrastructure, the NHS, the schools, border controls and immigration, or heavens forbid, tax breaks for UK citizens.

The alternative for that money, had the UK chosen to stay in the EU, would be to transfer that money out of the UK and have someone else decide what they wanted to do with it and spend it as they saw fit.

Not a difficult choice, if you ask me.

PS>>If the talking point has changed, big whoop, one options sees the UK keep that money the other sees it being taken away from them.
You have to understand that the way it was put to the public (and even more so the way it was intended they would interpret it) was that there is £350m per week or nearly £20B per year that we could immediately stop giving to Europe and spend on something else, specifically the NHS. Enough to make a massive difference. Thats a lot of doctors and nurses and its per year, so its ongoing ad infinitum, not a lump sum to keep things ticking over.

Here is how it really works. £350m per week is the average invoice we get but there is a rebate. Since we don't have to pay £350m then wait six months to get the rebate, its actually more of a discount because its instant. So the £350m is now £250m. Still a lot of money yes, but its already been significantly exaggerated. For the benefit of CTP it was overstated by 40%. I know from another thread that he thinks 27% is a massive increase, so hopefully he'll concede this point.
Of that £250m per week a lot of it is actually returned to the UK and spent here. The rest is basically the cost of access to the single market. Norway and Switzerland pay for access to the market too, so its a fee worth paying, according to literally everyone. Its not disputed that I've seen. Its even part of the Brexit "plan" to stay in the single market.
The difference is that the money that comes back gets spent where the EU says rather than where Westminster says. Now this is one of those things that sounds bad but is actually good. Most of that money would probably end up being spent in urban centres if it were up to the UK government, or perhaps it would disappear into the NHS black hole or get spent on some suspect contract or other. The EU mandates that it gets spent providing infrastructure and services to rural areas that otherwise get badly neglected.

Cornwall for example gets a lot of that money to help provide broadband. Scotland and Northern Ireland get quite a bit, as does Wales. This is why NI and Scotland like the EU, because they understand this fact.
The areas of England with the highest leave votes are the areas that get the most EU cash per capita. So these people have unwittingly voted to take away their own money and give it to the NHS instead. Now they are all begging that the UK government will continue to give them this money if we leave the EU, because they didn't know what they were doing when they voted to leave.

Then of course theres the fact that the leavers have in all likelihood voted to install a PM who will sell off the NHS so it won't get that £250m per week anyway.




Originally Posted by subego View Post
I feel these guys are pikers compared to politicians in the states.

Here, we would put that money into the NHS, and then just lower the overall budget.

When states claim the state lottery "funds education", this is what they do.
I'm not sure its that simple. The NHS is made up of numerous local trusts who decide how the funds they get are allocated. I'm not sure how the funds get divided between the trusts. Besides, they want to privatise the NHS anyway. Their interests are better served by it failing.


Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
Lets say I have too short an attention span and am kinda too dumb for "skilled" labor. I want a 3P/hr, easy manufacturing job that I can do, LOCALLY. But people like you are essentially voting to take away my right to this kind of labor - because ya'll seem to believe in the star trek universe where everyone's a fast learning ambitious engineer, scientist or leader. Or maybe it just makes us feel better to exploit people overseas with cost savings mostly due to unsafe work conditions, rather than have it in our own backyard. IOW where are all the dumb people like me suppose to work? Do you really want me in the plant making your crystal wachamacallit blades for the jet you'll be flying on? Or does my class just stay on welfare?
That is the million dollar question isn't it? The problem is that no-one seems to be planning for this kind of eventuality. I'd like the skills gap to provide more of an incentive for you to be more skilled and less dumb in simple terms. This can be achieved through various apprenticeships or vocational training. Most people aren't really dumb, they just weren't suited to the popular ways of learning. There are many skills that can be learned without technical degrees.
You could be an athlete, an entertainer, a musician or artist. There are lots of historic skills in the building trade from stonemasonry to metalwork to thatching roofs, theres farming, and many specialised areas of food production from raising animals to growing crops to cooking to making wine, whisky or cider or beer. Artisan cheese or bread.
Others still could learn engineering or computer science on the job instead of via degree. It requires planning, investment, incentives and funding from government. Its not there right now. Most 'dumb' people simply haven't found their place yet. Sadly many never do.


I think America is different when it comes to manufacturing. Big population = bigger market, more local raw materials and geographically China is further away so there are more items that are economically viable due to the shipping costs. South America is probably the bigger threat when they prefer to start building cars instead of growing Coca.


Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
I dont see that as likely. Maybe in the very very distant future. Imagine trying to 3d print something as simple as a blender.
why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-should-know-i-do-it-for a living
I don't see it as so distant. Its still a production line and people will need to be involve but there are few steps in the making of a blender that can't be performed by robots and machines. You just keep breaking tasks down and replacing the humans one by one.

To print one at home is a trickier task, but with proper design there will be kits and plans available where you might buy in a stock of more complex pre-made parts like motors and batteries, and just print the other bits on your home replicator system.
It could be more like ten or twenty years than 50. But factories can do a lot more right now.
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Jun 27, 2016, 10:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
This might seem like a strange question, but now that the UK will move towards independence from the EU, how would someone who wants to support the UK through it's transition to independence do so? Patronize UK business? Book a travel holiday in the UK?
I would have thought a holiday would be the most effective route. Especially if you booked the flight with British Airways and the accommodation through a British accommodation website.

By holidaying in the UK your money would go directly pocket to pocket.

Plus you get a nice holiday. I would mix London site seeing with getting the hell out of London and seeing maybe the Cotswolds, some of Wales and if you have time the highlands of Scotland.
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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jun 27, 2016, 02:26 PM
 
If anti-Brexiters won't listen to mere plebs, maybe they'll at least consider this man's opinion:

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Jun 27, 2016, 05:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
This is rich. First off, at most, I'm mistaken. And who knows, maybe there is this secret underground Mustang hysteria that I'm unaware of. But I doubt it. A self selecting survey by a used car website is hardly definitive. Given the date of the survey, I'd say it the result had more to do with the fact that Ford announced it was bringing the Mustang to Europe for the first time ever about then. Odd that Ford has never brought it over here before seeing as everybody wants one. Maybe they hate making money?

But I'm a liar.

You lie consistently and with abandon. Either your entire persona on here is a lie, or almost everything you claim is. There is no way someone with your regularly demonstrated lack of understanding of documentary evidence has a PhD in anything from anywhere, and you've never published scholarly articles. You almost certainly don't own a castle in Scotland. You are not a deacon in the Coptic church and I doubt you ever were. You never saw an article on a secret DVD-ROMs that says that the California open carry laws were a response to a white sniper. You don't own these DVD-ROMs. No one with such an obvious hostility towards women runs a women's charity. I really doubt you have anything to do with establishment of the medical debt forgiveness charity you linked to as you claim. And on and on and on.

You lie constantly and with abandon. You have no credibility. Any opportunity you are given to support any of the nonsense you spout with even a shred of evidence, you can't.

Maybe I'm wrong, I really doubt it, but maybe. Everything I've cited above, you could easily prove. Do it and I'll donate $100 to "your" medical debt forgiveness charity tomorrow.

Put up or go back to sitting in your basement all night with your pants around your ankles arguing with idiots like me on the internet.


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Jun 27, 2016, 06:11 PM
 
     
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Jun 27, 2016, 06:21 PM
 
The EU is currently saying no informal negotiations, the UK have to trigger article 50 and start the timer. EU diplomats are saying that they don't think the UK ever will do that. This is the diplomatic equivalent of saying "I dare ya!".
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Jun 27, 2016, 07:59 PM
 
Chuck is nothing if but quick on the draw.

     
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:01 PM
 
     
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:11 PM
 
Um, is this real? Never heard of the source before, but that's a pretty massive power grab if there's any truth to it. Like the Soviets-would-be-impressed (if they still existed) massive. Putin must be so jelly right now.

"Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels. "

WTF?
     
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:13 PM
 
Looks like BS to me. Even if someone does propose it, it will never pass. Not even close.

Probably the work of the leave campaign. They were talking shit about a European army during referendum. I never heard any official source say a word about it, just another lie.
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Um, is this real? Never heard of the source before, [...] WTF?
Do you believe anything that someone finds on a website that you've never heard of?

BTW, have a listen to Johnson's press conference. That guy is completely full of it: on the one hand he has no intention of invoking Article 50 (the provision that allows member states to leave the EU; keep in mind that only the member state may trigger Article 50). On the other, he reiterates all the promises he made during the campaign, some of which are impossible until you leave the EU.
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:51 PM
 
Looks like it's coming out of Poland. Brand name news isnt necessarily more credible, but I guess time will tell.

European superstate instead of E.U.? - read on - uatoday.tv

New EU 'superstate plan’ by France, Germany: report - Radio Poland :: News from Poland
     
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Jun 27, 2016, 10:57 PM
 
I see the EU trying to make an example out of the UK, to try to discourage other countries from deciding to leave.
     
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Jun 27, 2016, 11:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Oh, look. It's the other guy who blatantly lies and misrepresents people when he can't defend his position. You know, if you spent as much time reading the news (not Salon) and educating yourself, you wouldn't need to resort to sad smear tactics. But then, if you did that, you probably wouldn't be an SJW in the first place.
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Jun 28, 2016, 01:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
Looks like it's coming out of Poland. Brand name news isnt necessarily more credible, but I guess time will tell.
The current Polish government was not part of the initial talks, and is more Euro skeptic than its predecessors. I'd be really surprised if these rumors turned out to be an accurate representation of the intentions of the core EU nations.
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Jun 28, 2016, 01:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
I see the EU trying to make an example out of the UK, to try to discourage other countries from deciding to leave.
Where do you get that from?
Right now the EU is waiting for Britain's move, in fact they have to. The EU has asked Britain to proceed swiftly and invoke Article 50, but Britain's Brexiters are now pedaling back. So let's see whether Britain will even invoke Article 50 or whether they hope (somewhat naïvely) that the referendum gives them leverage to re-negotiate the terms of their membership. What specifically is the EU doing to punish Britain?
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Jun 28, 2016, 03:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
Looks like it's coming out of Poland. Brand name news isnt necessarily more credible, but I guess time will tell.

European superstate instead of E.U.? - read on - uatoday.tv

New EU 'superstate plan’ by France, Germany: report - Radio Poland :: News from Poland
The Polish government has its own problems. They're currently working to suppress internal criticism, granting themselves more direct powers over the state-owned broadcaster and has started firing critical journalists, etc. The EU has been working itself up to stepping in (I don't think they have yet), so this sounds like a preventative strike.
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Jun 28, 2016, 04:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Do you believe anything that someone finds on a website that you've never heard of?
If he did, why would he ask "is this for real?"
     
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Jun 28, 2016, 04:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Where do you get that from?
Right now the EU is waiting for Britain's move, in fact they have to. The EU has asked Britain to proceed swiftly and invoke Article 50, but Britain's Brexiters are now pedaling back. So let's see whether Britain will even invoke Article 50 or whether they hope (somewhat naïvely) that the referendum gives them leverage to re-negotiate the terms of their membership. What specifically is the EU doing to punish Britain?
Absolutely. They're following the rules. The Lisbon treaty specifies that discussions must be complete within 2 years from notification - that rule would be pointless if you could have little chats about the details before triggering the notification.
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Jun 28, 2016, 05:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Chuck is nothing if but quick on the draw.

This is truly shameful. Look at the kerning on his last name.
     
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Jun 28, 2016, 05:09 AM
 
It's all getting a little farcical.

So we have Boris off the record to the BBC's economics editor that the leaver thought that Cameron had the exit plan!

And Jeremy Hunt stepping up to campaign for leader on the basis of Referendum 2: The Undecidening while the rest of the exit camp have decided to play chicken with Europe and try to do the leaving negotiations before pressing the big red button.

Meanwhile the labour party has imploded with insanity as 150 MP's seek to strengthen Corbyns position by allowing a needless leadership campaign which will see him win again and have cause to blow all the hold outs from his agenda away.

If I was Cameron I would be wanting to step up and just invoke the treaty. He would have a pretty convincing moral case for that, even if he didn't have any part in the negotiations, he could end the madness by getting things started (as the people have asked for) and let negotiations start on the 2nd Sept with the new leader.
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Jun 28, 2016, 05:12 AM
 
Is Cameron the only person who can press the button? What's the protocol if you don't mind me asking.

If it's way complicated, no need to write an essay for me. I can look it up.
     
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Jun 28, 2016, 05:13 AM
 
Basically it's the "government" but in effect it's the PM
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Jun 28, 2016, 05:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Basically it's the "government" but in effect it's the PM
And is Cameron still the PM until a new election?

I don't think a PM has resigned like this in my lifetime so I have no clue what the protocol is for that, either.
     
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Jun 28, 2016, 05:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
It's all getting a little farcical.

So we have Boris off the record to the BBC's economics editor that the leaver thought that Cameron had the exit plan!
And this is the guy that wants to be PM and, presumably, lead the negotiations to leave? Wouldn't he be better suited to, I don't know, deciding the color of bus stops or something?

Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
And Jeremy Hunt stepping up to campaign for leader on the basis of Referendum 2: The Undecidening while the rest of the exit camp have decided to play chicken with Europe and try to do the leaving negotiations before pressing the big red button.
What gets me is that the entire Conservative party is acting is if it was a big surprise that Cameron decided to leave. Was that really a surprise to anyone outside the party? I mean, really?

Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Meanwhile the labour party has imploded with insanity as 150 MP's seek to strengthen Corbyns position by allowing a needless leadership campaign which will see him win again and have cause to blow all the hold outs from his agenda away.
I don't think Corbyn can ride this out. I know his supporters are standing by him for now, but the pressure is very hard. I think that they will decide on a compromise candidate to save the party from fracturing.

Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
If I was Cameron I would be wanting to step up and just invoke the treaty. He would have a pretty convincing moral case for that, even if he didn't have any part in the negotiations, he could end the madness by getting things started (as the people have asked for) and let negotiations start on the 2nd Sept with the new leader.
And get blamed for the next 1000 years of darkness as Western Civilization goes down the drain and England is invaded by Iceland.

Seriously, though - if the reports about the rivalry between him and Johnson are true, he is probably just as happy to let it all descend into chaos. This is the best way to show that Johnson isn't the man for the job.
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Jun 28, 2016, 05:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
And is Cameron still the PM until a new election?

I don't think a PM has resigned like this in my lifetime so I have no clue what the protocol is for that, either.
Customary is that the party leader that leaves their post also resigns as PM, and parliament elects a new one. The new party leader is the obvious choice. Technically I think the Queen asks someone to be her PM, and parliament has to confirm that choice, but in practice she will select someone who has the support of parliament.

Not sure how old you are, but Thatcher was forced out in the run-up to Desert Storm, I believe?
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