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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > so, tell me again, where is the capital of Israel?

so, tell me again, where is the capital of Israel?
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Doc HM
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Dec 6, 2017, 02:04 PM
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42259443

Seems entirely consistent with Trumps inability to support or maintain a consensus.

The report mentions that the US will now start looking for a location in Jerusalem that is secure enough for their new embassy. Yes, good luck with that.

I can't see this enhancing what little there is of the peace process at all.
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Waragainstsleep
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Dec 6, 2017, 02:10 PM
 
It will trash the peace process as it exists. One imagines thats deliberate though one cannot imagine why.

Though someone should probably check to see if Trump has any big business deals pending with Jewish players, this move will go down very well with them. Maybe he plans to market Trump Tower Jerusalem to American evangelicals for some kind of Trump Pilgrimage© company.

Trump Holy Water© and Shroud of Trump© sold separately.
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BadKosh
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Dec 6, 2017, 02:12 PM
 
Actually CLINTON promised by passing a law in 1995 that Jerusalem was the capital and to even mandate moving the embassy there. There is a loophole however that allowed the last few presidents to issue a waiver every six months.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 6, 2017, 02:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Actually CLINTON promised by passing a law in 1995 that Jerusalem was the capital and to even mandate moving the embassy there. There is a loophole however that allowed the last few presidents to issue a waiver every six months.
Actually he did not. He didn't pass or sign it.

Anyway, my title would be ' Trump half-asses moving the embassy to Jerusalem '

There is zero reason to do this
     
OAW
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Dec 6, 2017, 03:20 PM
 
This is just Trump tossing red meat to his right-wing, evangelical base. He could care less about the practical implications or that it may very well kill the Middle East peace process because that portion of his based doesn't support that anyway. And if the Arab world explodes in the aftermath of this even better as far as his base is concerned.

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The Final Dakar
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Dec 6, 2017, 03:24 PM
 
Yeah so far 'populist' Trumps big accomplishments benefit rich donors and the evangelical establishment.
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Dec 6, 2017, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
There is zero reason to do this
This usually means there is a reason just not one they want anyone to k ow about.
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reader50
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Dec 6, 2017, 09:31 PM
 
Presidential legacy: "leave the world worse off for my having been here"

I'm not familiar with this kind of legacy. But it appears we'll all be familiar with it during the next few years.
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 6, 2017, 10:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Actually he did not. He didn't pass or sign it.
Congress passed it, but Clinton did not sign it into law. It has been regarded as infringing on the executive branch's authority to conduct foreign affairs, e. g. in the form of the Treaty Clause which gives the US President the power to conduct treaty negotiations — Congress “only” has the power of advice and consent. The creators of that bill were clearly aware of the problematic issue, so they created what BadKosh calls a loophole but isn't, it is an explicit clause in that law that the president can defer the move. If it is made explicit and an intended part of the law, it is not a loophole.

We could argue about whether the law is constitutional, but in the end that would be something for the Supreme Court to decide. Given the really bad optics of the President suing over this particular law (which would undoubtedly phrased as one side not supporting Israel and the other side supporting Israel), Clinton, Bush 2, Obama and for a time also Trump have decided to sign the waiver.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Anyway, my title would be ' Trump half-asses moving the embassy to Jerusalem '

There is zero reason to do this
The move of the embassy to Jerusalem was a big bargaining chip that Trump needlessly throws away, just to try and pay a domestic debt to some of his base. Losing this bargaining chip, something which will anger the Palestinian side and disqualify the US from being an impartial arbitrator in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, will seriously hamper future administrations.

Also, just announcing the move is one thing, but actually doing it will be hard. Jerusalem is crammed, and while the US has a consulate there, it lies in East Jerusalem — the Palestinian part. The location is not suitable for the embassy to Israel, because it would presumably lie in what might become the Palestinian part of Jerusalem — and then it would be like putting the US's embassy to Belgium in the Netherlands.
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andi*pandi
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Dec 7, 2017, 10:38 AM
 
In other news, texas is now part of mexico.

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/12...s-part-mexico/
     
Waragainstsleep
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Dec 7, 2017, 11:44 AM
 
Saw an amusing meme declaring that much of the world now recognises Moscow as the capital of the USA.
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Laminar
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Dec 7, 2017, 12:43 PM
 
wtf
     
subego
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Dec 8, 2017, 02:00 AM
 
I think this was a shitty thing to do, but if it’s enough to crater the peace process, there wasn’t going to be a peace anyway.
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 8, 2017, 04:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think this was a shitty thing to do, but if it’s enough to crater the peace process, there wasn’t going to be a peace anyway.
What peace process? It has been dead for years, and a bargaining chip like this could have been used to bring both parties to the table. While I don't think the US has been perceived by the Palestinians as neutral, they knew that at times the US could twist Israel's arm to get some concessions.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Dec 8, 2017, 04:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
What peace process? It has been dead for years, and a bargaining chip like this could have been used to bring both parties to the table. While I don't think the US has been perceived by the Palestinians as neutral, they knew that at times the US could twist Israel's arm to get some concessions.
Yes at this point the peace process was if not dead then in a medically induced coma. Since the Palestinians calmed down the world seems to have quietly forgotten about it/them and got on with screwing up in Syria and assorted other places with more geopolitical weight to them. This has left Israel to get on with quietly normalising its expansion into the occupied territories.

The whole peace process is effectively over until either a different third party decides that it needs to get involved and mediate or the region sparks up again and the same old players decide they need to take notice. Only this time the US has been placed firmly into the pro Israel camp by most of the rest of the world so again a credible new third party would need to emerge.

I suspect there will be a period of calm, a realisation by the Palestinians that the current status quo is effectively game over for them and then a return to violence as they try to wake the process back up in their favour.
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OreoCookie
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Dec 8, 2017, 06:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Yes at this point the peace process was if not dead then in a medically induced coma.
Poteto — potato. Tometo — tomato.
Dead? Coma? Persistent vegetative state? Who knows, but it looks all the same. Ever since Rabin's assassination, the peace process has taken a nose dive.
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Since the Palestinians calmed down the world seems to have quietly forgotten about it/them and got on with screwing up in Syria and assorted other places with more geopolitical weight to them. This has left Israel to get on with quietly normalising its expansion into the occupied territories.

The whole peace process is effectively over until either a different third party decides that it needs to get involved and mediate or the region sparks up again and the same old players decide they need to take notice. Only this time the US has been placed firmly into the pro Israel camp by most of the rest of the world so again a credible new third party would need to emerge.
I really wish I could say I disagree with your analysis.
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I suspect there will be a period of calm, a realisation by the Palestinians that the current status quo is effectively game over for them and then a return to violence as they try to wake the process back up in their favour.
Thing is, further violence will work in favor of those who want the peace process dead as a door nail.
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Waragainstsleep
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Dec 8, 2017, 09:00 AM
 
I think they should make Jerusalem a city state of its own like the Vatican and let atheists run it. Its the only fair way.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Dec 8, 2017, 09:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Poteto — potato. Tometo — tomato.
Thing is, further violence will work in favor of those who want the peace process dead as a door nail.
When people come to believe that violence is the only way to make people listen, violence is what you get.

Since this is equally obvious to both sides it comes down to have you any will to stop the violence or does the inevitable coming violence strengthen your agenda.?

For both sides the answer is probably no and yes. And so more people will die.
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The Final Dakar
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Jan 16, 2018, 11:05 PM
 
Weird how after moving the embassy to Israel, the US is now withholding aid to Palestinians.
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 17, 2018, 04:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Weird how after moving the embassy to Israel, the US is now withholding aid to Palestinians.
Don't forget the escalating violence and rhetoric. Who could have seen that coming?
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jan 18, 2018, 02:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Weird how after moving the embassy to Israel, the US is now withholding aid to Palestinians.
To be fair they are only going to withhold aid if the Palestinians object to Israels "peace" proposals.

So there's that.
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