[Click170]

Here's a cultural difference most smokers should be able to relate to. At least ones in Vancouver who have been smoking for a long time.

In China everybody smokes, so a lot of the little corner stores around Vancouver which are run by Chinese people will sell you smokes no matter how young you are. This is common knowledge among smoking high-school students around there, most know exactly how to get their hands on smokes, keep going to the asian-run corner stores until one of them sells you smokes. Then just keep going back there.

I'm not strongly for or against selling smokes to minors or smoking at all for that matter, I'm just pointing out another cultural difference which stands out.

[Click170]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Yep, I know.

Are you telling me that you can't tell the difference between an illustrative example and unrelated statistics? ^h^h^h^h^h^h...

Ooh, I see what you did there. Heh. Hehehehe. Well played.

I'd have to agree with besson3c that hate crimes do occur everywhere, and that correlation is not causation, and I certainly wouldn't have countered with

Originally Posted by freudling 

We're talking about Canada and its immigration problems and you post US statistics. Lol.

Ignore...

Anybody else from Vancouver?

I do understand the outrage though, as I've been victim to these things myself.
Besson3c has some good points, but I think him not understanding the anger here might be because he doesn't live in Vancouver or a similarly effected area. I don't know where he lives though, I'm just guessing.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Click170 

Are you telling me that you can't tell the difference between an illustrative example and unrelated statistics?

Only if you're telling me that you can't tell the difference between illustrative statistics and an unrelated example.

I'm just sayin' that people conveniently switch between what is acceptable in a debate when they can find an out to discount an argument that counters their own.

[Click170]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Only if you're telling me that you can't tell the difference between illustrative statistics and an unrelated example.

I'm just sayin' that people conveniently switch between what is acceptable in a debate when they can find an out to discount an argument that counters their own.

Is there a way to change text in a post to show a line through it? Anyway..

Well, if there's a way of discounting an argument contrary to your own, why shouldn't you discount it?
If it doesn't fully discount the opposing argument obviously you won't get very far, unless the opponent doesn't catch that your refutation is a partial one, but if it proves them wrong, why not prove them wrong?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Athens 

The only Canadian driver to ever hit me was a dumb blond on a cell phone... Every other accident was a immigrant, I know because in a accident you collect information from them for Insurance purposes. Or when you witness it in a parking lot, you grab a bag of popcorn and watch as they screech at each other in Cantonese or Korean lol

I know what you mean about the screeching. I had to break up a sort of fight between an Asian and a white guy. I saw the whole thing, it was the Asian's fault going too fast through what really was a red light. He hit the back of another guy's car. The guy was like 70 years old, the Asian about 40. He started losing it and I had to calm him down. "Is no my faul... is no! No! No my faul..." Jesus, relax.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I know what you mean about the screeching. I had to break up a sort of fight between an Asian and a white guy. I saw the whole thing, it was the Asian's fault going too fast through what really was a red light. He hit the back of another guy's car. The guy was like 70 years old, the Asian about 40. He started losing it and I had to calm him down. "Is no my faul... is no! No! No my faul..." Jesus, relax.

I would pay good money to see a Chinese person reach the speed limit let alone exceed it.



PS that was a joke (though not far from the truth lol

[lpkmckenna]

I need to put this entire thread on ignore.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Athens 

If they all did buy cars we would be in real trouble. But considering how many of them are on the road, and how few of them do take the bus and considering the ones here have the money to buy the cars a lot of them do. Its a status symbol in many of the Asian cultures. Japan, Korea and China a car is a symbol of wealth and power.

Guess what? Immigrants generally aren't wealthy.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This gets back to the probation thing... If a person is a legal citizen or permanent resident and keeps their nose clean for, say, 15 years, would we still deport them? At some point we assume some authority and liability as their place of legal residence. If the person is illegal, they should obviously be deported, but I'm pretty sure this is already what would happen.

Citizen no, Permanent Resident, any criminal code violation should have them booted. They can appeal it and return upon appeal. I imagine 15 years of good service and a minor offence would lead to permission to stay.

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Guess what? Immigrants generally aren't wealthy.

Um the ones coming here are. Most of the ones we are getting from Asia are under the Pay your way in not the skilled class which means lots of money. Southern US states have problems with poor Mexicans, but its cheap to walk across a border. The majority of $2+ million dollar homes and condo's being bought are by wealthy Asians. Mostly wealthy Chinese from mainland China and Hong Kong. Granted lots of immigrants from Europe, South America, Africa and other parts of Asia come here with just enough money to meet the minimum finical requirements to live here but we are not being over run by these immigrants either. I welcome A LOT more of them to even things out.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Um the ones coming here are. Most of the ones we are getting from Asia are under the Pay your way in not the skilled class which means lots of money. Southern US states have problems with poor Mexicans, but its cheap to walk across a border. The majority of $2+ million dollar homes and condo's being bought are by wealthy Asians. Mostly wealthy Chinese from mainland China and Hong Kong. Granted lots of immigrants from Europe, South America, Africa and other parts of Asia come here with just enough money to meet the minimum finical requirements to live here but we are not being over run by these immigrants either. I welcome A LOT more of them to even things out.

Immigration economic data for Canada. The largest median income shown here is $66k a year, hardly wealthy.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Immigration economic data for Canada. The largest median income shown here is $66k a year, hardly wealthy.

I can't see a single chart on there that shows immigrant net wealth. Just median income for those immigrants that are employed. Personally myself if I had Millions of dollars I wouldn't really be working and that would count me out of those statistics.

Ok lets start with statistical information from the Government in just my suburb community of Vancouver.

Total population as of 2001: 112,890 (1)

Total Private Dwellings: 41,481 (1)

First Learned Language Stats

English Only, French Only and those that speak both as first language: 71,065 (1)

Other languages as first language: 40,355 (1)

Immigration Stats

Canadian-Born population: 68,850 (1)

Foreign Born population: 42,295 (1)

Visible Minority Numbers

Chinese: 19,940 (1)
South Asian: 3,280 (1)
Black: 1,130 (1)
Filipino: 2,570 (1)
Latin American: 1,110 (1)
Southeast Asian: 1,140 (1)
Arab: 385 (1)
West Asian: 2,580 (1)
Korean: 4,240 (1)
Japanese: 850 (1)

Total Asian Population based on these numbers: 34,600

This number represents one in three people in my suburb of Vancouver that immigrated from Asia based on government census information.

Language Used Most Often at Work. Total Number of respondents: 64,390 (1)

Official Languages, English and French: 60,620 (1)
Languages used full time non-official: 3,005 (1)
Languages used full time Offical and non-official: 760 (1)

Modes of Transportation. Total Number of respondents: 51,630(1)

As Driver: 41,120(1)
As Passenger: 4,025(1)
Public Transit: 4,160(1)
Walked, Bicycled, Other method: 2,330(1)

Dwelling Ownership Numbers. Total Dwellings: 40,220 (1)
Owned: 28,365 (1)
Rented: 11,850 (1)

So what can we surmise from these numbers.

1 in 3 people in my Suburb are from Asia

Its hard to really tell how many Canadians own homes and how many immigrants own homes from these stats but we can look at transportation.

51,630 people who responded to a the mode of Transportation to work.

Of that 41,120 are Drivers, and the rest are the combined total of passengers, public transit users, walkers and users of other methods. Thats 10515 people. With an Asian population of 34,600 and just for augmentative sakes we say only half of the Asian population responded to the transportation numbers, this will give us 17300 Asians. And lets assume at least 80% of those make up those non drivers statistics which would be about 8412 Asian commuters not on the road. That still leaves 8888 Asian drivers on the road out of 41,120 drivers or one out of every 4.6 cars on the road driven by an Asian driver. Because I cut the Asian population in half and made an assumption that a high number of non driving numbers are Asian, the real number could easily be double that making it one out of every 3 cars on the road being Asian drivers. If my personal observational count at all is the number I witness with my eyes daily.

Source: (1) (www.statcan.ca)

[imitchellg5]

And every single one of them is out to rear end you.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

And every single one of them is out to rear end you.

Are you trying to suggest that Asians purposely try to crash into people? I'm not following where you are going with this.

Looking at the statistics of Chinese immigrants alone, that is 19,940 possible drivers on the road. Even half of that is a pretty high number.

From the UK Government (1)

Safety and Security - Local Travel - Road Travel
The poor quality of roads and generally low driving standards leads to many accidents. If you are involved in a serious accident, you may be prevented from leaving the country until the case is resolved.

First hand experience in China with Chinese drivers. (2)

The Chinese highway code is extensive and if you read it, and if it was followed, it would put the Chinese driver at an extremely high level. Unfortunately I have to say that I believe that the majority of Chinese drivers haven’t even seen this set of rules, let alone follow them! Chinese drivers are extremely aggressive in their driving style and care little (ie not at all, if they even realise they are there!) for those people and vehicles around them and generally completely ignore the rules of the road.

And now from the horses mouth (3)

All Chinese are bad drivers. This is a stereotype in Vancouver Canada. Being a Chinese myself and living in Canada for over ten years. I slowly developed the same stereotype too. Some Chinese are really bad drivers: they drive too slow on a highway, they cannot parallel park, they drive on two lanes, they take other people parking spots. I hope all Chinese should make some efforts to improve their driving skills so we can clear our name!

Source (1) UK Government Website

Source (2) Chinese Driving Test

Source (3) All Chinese are bad drivers - AsianFanatics Forum

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Athens 

In Canada,[7] Singapore[9] and Hong Kong,[10] the term is used freely as a contraction of the adjective "Japanese" rather than as a derogatory term. The Australian news service Asia Pulse also uses the term.[11] In 1970, the Japanese fashion designer Kenzo Takada opened the "Jungle Jap" boutique in Paris.[12] In Japan itself, most Japanese are apathetic about the term, according to a 2004 study Nikkeiview: JapJapJapJapJapJapJap

Infact it seems only a problem word in the USofA partially because of WW2

I guess you don't know very many Canadians of Japanese decent then. I actually took some Japanese language courses for fun in university. Trust me "Jap" in Canada is considered a pretty bad insult. If there's just one thing you can learn from this thread, let it be this.

Perhaps it is as a result of WW2, but the sentiment is pretty common in Canada.

So excuse me if American Japanese still have some issues to resolve. The Japanese impress me a lot, I have nothing but the deepest respect for there traditions, culture and the country so don't even play the racist card with me especially with Japanese.

It's racist. If you call enough Japanese in Canada "Japs" you're bound to piss off a few.

Like I said, it's akin to "Paki" - the famous George Bush misstep, and to "Chinaman" still quite commonly used in the Southern US. Yet, if you go to the South and ask, many people will say "Chinaman" isn't racist and when they say it they don't mean to be racist.

That's just unfortunate, and insensitive. It reminds me of the incident in small-town Ontario where a guy dressed up as a KKK member for Halloween and was leading his buddy with black makeup around by a noose. When confronted with the obvious racism he just said it was a joke and a Halloween party costume and he wasn't trying to offend people, and that people should understand that.

Well, people of all shades didn't understand that and were mighty offended.

Its like how in Canada Black Canadians are called Black Canadians not African Canadian. Call a Black Canadian African he will correct you and say he was not born in Africa.

I don't think I know anyone who calls himself a "black Canadian" actually. "I'm originally from Jamaica" or something like that is what I usually hear.

And there is a restaurant in Richmond called Jap House I like. I think the term turned to short hand at around the txt message age

I wonder if it's run by Chinese or Japanese. An awful lot of "Japanese" restaurants in Canada are Chinese-run. Who knows though. It could always be the take-back-the-term type too.

shorting Japanese in to Jap isn't.

Yes it is racist, no matter how much you try to convince yourself it isn't. Let me give you a piece of advice. I wouldn't recommend walking down Robson street asking for directions to a Jap restaurant. At best you'll get dirty looks with mutterings that you must be some hick interior BCer or something. Yeah, that reaction may be a racist stereotype too, but in this case it might actually be deserved.

Was the Caucasian a immigrant or a Canadian? I mean did you actually ask him if he was a Canadian Caucasian? Because I doubt you did. I bet your are assuming he was Canadian because of his skin color, who in there right minds asks every one they meet if they are Canadian. I don't even do that. For all you know he was a American immigrant with only permanent residence status.

Huh? You're really reaching now. Well, actually I'm not surprised. You've been really reaching this entire thread.

Anyways, if you must know, he was an arborist trained in Canada who has run a tree removal service for double-digit years. And he has a Toronto accent. But no, I didn't ask if he was born in Minnesota or whatever.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Are you trying to suggest that Asians purposely try to crash into people? I'm not following where you are going with this.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic, because your angle seems to be that they're the ones causing auto accidents.

[freudling]

"Citizenship and Immigration spokeswoman Melanie Carkner wrote in an e-mail that her agency expects to receive more permanent residents to Canada in 2010 than in any year in more than a half century."

Surge of immigrants arrived in B.C. last summer: StatsCan

[Athens]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Sorry, I was being sarcastic, because your angle seems to be that they're the ones causing auto accidents.

I see a disproportional number of accidents from Chinese drivers. I see a incredible disproportional number of near misses from Chinese drivers. I see a hell of a lot of violent incidents with East Indian Drivers. For the Chinese I blame the lack of proper driver training, limited experience and unfamiliarity with local rules and laws. I thought you where being serious and not sarcastic cuz at no point did I ever say or try to imply they do it on purpose.

[Eug]

BTW, it should be noted through all this that actually, Toronto is a much more popular destination for immigrants than Vancouver. In fact, there were ~150000 new immigrants to Vancouver in a period of several years ending in 2006, and three times as many new immigrants to Toronto the same year.

Originally Posted by Athens 

I see a disproportional number of accidents from Chinese drivers. I see a incredible disproportional number of near misses from Chinese drivers. I see a hell of a lot of violent incidents with East Indian Drivers. For the Chinese I blame the lack of proper driver training, limited experience and unfamiliarity with local rules and laws. I thought you where being serious and not sarcastic cuz at no point did I ever say or try to imply they do it on purpose.

It'd be good to see stats for that.

My friends in high school used to believe that old people had the highest accident rate, despite the fact that it was young males that were the most risky, with seniors amongst those with the best stats.

Also, it would be interesting to see the accident rates for new immigrants with new licences vs. born-and-bred Canadians with new licences. I would hazard to guess that both have higher rates of accidents than those with 10 years' experience, but that the new 30-something adult immigrants have less accidents than born-and-bred Canadians with new licences (ie. teenagers and 20-somethings).

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Athens 

You tube helps too, example of Mainland Chinese drivers
YouTube - Chinese Intersection

Looks like a circus act that requires skill.

That only shows how good Chinese drivers are. Hundreds of cars, buses, bikes, and pedestrians go by each other without the help of traffic lights or stop signs, and not a single accident.

Americans would not know what to do and traffic would just stop until the traffic police comes.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

BTW, it should be noted through all this that actually, Toronto is a much more popular destination for immigrants than Vancouver. In fact, there were ~150000 new immigrants to Vancouver in a period of several years ending in 2006, and three times as many new immigrants to Toronto the same year.


It'd be good to see stats for that.

My friends in high school used to believe that old people had the highest accident rate, despite the fact that it was young males that were the most risky, with seniors amongst those with the best stats.

Also, it would be interesting to see the accident rates for new immigrants with new licences vs. born-and-bred Canadians with new licences. I would hazard to guess that both have higher rates of accidents than those with 10 years' experience, but that the new 30-something adult immigrants have less accidents than born-and-bred Canadians with new licences (ie. teenagers and 20-somethings).

"Citizenship and Immigration spokeswoman Melanie Carkner wrote in an e-mail that her agency expects to receive more permanent residents to Canada in 2010 than in any year in more than a half century."

Surge of immigrants arrived in B.C. last summer: StatsCan

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Citizen no, Permanent Resident, any criminal code violation should have them booted. They can appeal it and return upon appeal. I imagine 15 years of good service and a minor offence would lead to permission to stay.

In the US, an unconditional permanent resident has exactly all of the legal rights of a citizen except they can't sponsor family members and can't run for office. If you want to do this this would change the whole definition of an unconditional permanent resident. Keeping a clean record is a condition to become an unconditional permanent resident, so there is already a built-in probationary period included in the process.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Looks like a circus act that requires skill.

That only shows how good Chinese drivers are. Hundreds of cars, buses, bikes, and pedestrians go by each other without the help of traffic lights or stop signs, and not a single accident.

Americans would not know what to do and traffic would just stop until the traffic police comes.

Want me to post the 20 dozen clips on accidents... its bloody insane. China and Russia....

[Athens]

[QUOTE=Eug;4037400]I guess you don't know very many Canadians of Japanese decent then. I actually took some Japanese language courses for fun in university. Trust me "Jap" in Canada is considered a pretty bad insult. If there's just one thing you can learn from this thread, let it be this.
[quote]

I'll ask 2 co-workers about it tomorrow, both immigrated here from Japan in the last couple decades. For now I have to say no. I've learned that some people need to catch up to the 21st century and stop living in the 20th century.

Perhaps it is as a result of WW2, but the sentiment is pretty common in Canada.

I've never in my life herd any one use the word Jap in a derogatory way except in some WWII war movies..

It's racist. If you call enough Japanese in Canada "Japs" you're bound to piss off a few.

Well then I would advise you not to go around calling Japanese people Japs.

Like I said, it's akin to "Paki" - the famous George Bush misstep, and to "Chinaman" still quite commonly used in the Southern US. Yet, if you go to the South and ask, many people will say "Chinaman" isn't racist and when they say it they don't mean to be racist.

First I forgot to congratulate you on being the first person to my recollection of actually posting a racially hurtful word on this topic. Thus far I don't think any one has used any Racial words. Jap while having one meaning in the US for example, is still technically short hand for Japanese and published as so and in many parts of the world used as such. And Japanese themselves don't seem to care either way with the exception of American Japanese who actually suffered abuse with the word. Intent, and context plays a very large roll on the meaning of a word. "I herd Mike was a Jew, thats neat vs You f*ing Jew" Same word 2 totally meanings from the context of the word. A ton of words are like that. Context always decides intent and meaning.

That's just unfortunate, and insensitive. It reminds me of the incident in small-town Ontario where a guy dressed up as a KKK member for Halloween and was leading his buddy with black makeup around by a noose. When confronted with the obvious racism he just said it was a joke and a Halloween party costume and he wasn't trying to offend people, and that people should understand that.

They should. Its no different then how some people are offended by Nazi costumes. They need to get over it already. Every one is offended by something. I am seriously offended by you and this topic.

Well, people of all shades didn't understand that and were mighty offended.

Its people like that which have caused Christmas Trees to become Holiday Trees, and Christmas dinners to become Holiday Dinners.

I don't think I know anyone who calls himself a "black Canadian" actually. "I'm originally from Jamaica" or something like that is what I usually hear.

I hear Jamaican, Jamaican Canadian, Hatian Canadian and those from Africa either new ones or those who family came from Africa originally Black Canadian. I have seen Black Canadians get offended by people saying African Canadian or African American.

BTW you really should research your shit before sounding super super stupid

Black Canadians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[quote]

I wonder if it's run by Chinese or Japanese. An awful lot of "Japanese" restaurants in Canada are Chinese-run. Who knows though. It could always be the take-back-the-term type too.
[quote]

Old Japanese people own and run it and its in the heart of a Japanese Fishing community.

Yes it is racist, no matter how much you try to convince yourself it isn't. Let me give you a piece of advice. I wouldn't recommend walking down Robson street asking for directions to a Jap restaurant. At best you'll get dirty looks with mutterings that you must be some hick interior BCer or something. Yeah, that reaction may be a racist stereotype too, but in this case it might actually be deserved.

Speaking of Robsin, my fav hotdogs are called Japa Dogs (OH KNOW ANOTHER RACIST WORD TO SOME ONE)

Hotdog stand, Japa dog in Vancouver

Huh? You're really reaching now. Well, actually I'm not surprised. You've been really reaching this entire thread.

Anyways, if you must know, he was an arborist trained in Canada who has run a tree removal service for double-digit years. And he has a Toronto accent. But no, I didn't ask if he was born in Minnesota or whatever.

You know a lot about the man for a car crash encounter. Tell me what is his business name and I will call him and ask, im curious. But I kinda knew you didn't actually ask because almost no one does.

List of ethnic slurs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jap
(US, especially during World War II) a Japanese soldier or national, or anyone of Japanese descent.

It was or maybe still is a Ethnic Slur of USofA origin and localization.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

In the US, an unconditional permanent resident has exactly all of the legal rights of a citizen except they can't sponsor family members and can't run for office. If you want to do this this would change the whole definition of an unconditional permanent resident. Keeping a clean record is a condition to become an unconditional permanent resident, so there is already a built-in probationary period included in the process.

I would only accept full blown citizens as unconditional. Permanent resident just means that, a foreigner who lives here with no set term.

[freudling]

In defence of Athens, I don't think anyone is going to school a Canadian on what's PC and what's not...

And I also like Japa Dogs. What a success story their business is.

And I agree, I am so tired of people being uber sensitive. White people are just supposed to shut up and not say anything. Anything we say is racist. It's ridiculous. There's is so much data supporting most everything that is said here. All people can do is engage is this hand waving he said she said nonsense.

Look, whether you want to believe it or not. Whether you have any idea about what you're talking about or not. Canada does have immigration problems that are unique and challenging. As a country that has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world, with an influx coming from Asia, infighting within our government, along with crime among certain groups, we need to rethink our immigration strategies. And we need to do this fast.

Look to these folks for guidance... hey, I said folks! How American of me... yet, "Center" below is spelled "Centre", how Canadian of me!:

Home Page | Centre for Immigration Policy Reform

[Athens]

Southern US has a Mexican problem. Im surprised not much have come up about it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Athens 

I see a disproportional number of accidents from Chinese drivers. I see a incredible disproportional number of near misses from Chinese drivers. I see a hell of a lot of violent incidents with East Indian Drivers. For the Chinese I blame the lack of proper driver training, limited experience and unfamiliarity with local rules and laws. I thought you where being serious and not sarcastic cuz at no point did I ever say or try to imply they do it on purpose.

Where do you see all this that your personal observations have the clout to be representative of more than a tiny fraction of traffic accidents? Also, what methodologies are you employing in your observations to prove to us that you aren't just seeing what you want to see?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Its people like that which have caused Christmas Trees to become Holiday Trees, and Christmas dinners to become Holiday Dinners.

Nope. I'm glad you mentioned that. There was a push in Toronto City Hall to get Christmas Trees called Holiday Trees, and EVERYONE not in the left wing city council thought that was insanely stupid, including most immigrants asked on TV. It was quashed pretty quickly.

I'm more than happy that the Lord's Prayer was removed from our schools though, eons ago.

You know a lot about the man for a car crash encounter. Tell me what is his business name and I will call him and ask, im curious. But I kinda knew you didn't actually ask because almost no one does.

Eh? I was talking about my tree removal and that guy offering to do it as a cash deal to avoid taxes. In the end I paid tax on the actual tree removal, but paid for the stump removal in cash.

Anyways, your stubborness here is pretty symptomatic of the problem. You claim not to be racist, but when confronted with your use of a derogatory term that is considered racist by many in the population to which it refers, you think they should just calm down.

And I'm shocked you think this is OK in modern Canada.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1783090/

Fortunately, most people in that city were more enlightened than that, and immediately condemned it. They didn't just tell the black store owner to calm down.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Where do you see all this that your personal observations have the clout to be representative of more than a tiny fraction of traffic accidents? Also, what methodologies are you employing in your observations to prove to us that you aren't just seeing what you want to see?

Ok lets start with the 10 impacts I have personally had over the last 7 years.

2005 on way to work, rear ended twice in the same day. First time Asian woman New Westminster, second time blond woman in Burnaby.
Summer 2006 - Accelerated into by a East Indian man in Burnaby
Before DSCN0064 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
After IMG_0358 17-32-04 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! don't look to bad but it was still a write off and my neck was buggered up for 2 years

Winter 2006, 5 love taps on snowy roads in 2 hours, 3 Chinese men, 2 Chinese Woman. These happened in Vancouver, Burnaby, and Coquitlam. I actually had to also drive a Chinese Woman's Car up a minor slop to unblock the road for every one else including me stuck behind her.

2008 - Chinese Man or Korean, kinda looked more Chinese backed into me in a parking lot in Coquitlam Had the horn going for a good 8 seconds before actual impact. I almost punched him out for his complete stupidity.

2009 - Asian woman changed lanes into me in Vancouver

The number of near misses is high, not going to go into them.

Now the number of Parking Lot bumps I have seen.
At least 7 in Coquitlam Superstore Parking Lot
2 in Coquitlam Canadian Tire Parking Lot
6 in Richmond Center Mall Parking lot
a few at Lansdowne Center Parking lot

Accidents I have seen or come across in the last decade, 9 out of 10 of them Asian or East Indian drivers (both drivers being immigrants) And we are talking about triple digit numbers at least on how many I have seen. I can remember 3 non immigrant accidents. One a woman who fell asleep at the wheel and drover her car into a tree one house down from me. A kid who failed to yield on my corner. A old old man who rear ended a immigrant.

So for methodologies, I dunno how to answer that one. For those that don't want to believe I dont think any thing will cause them to trust observations.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Nope. I'm glad you mentioned that. There was a push in Toronto City Hall to get Christmas Trees called Holiday Trees, and EVERYONE not in the left wing city council thought that was insanely stupid, including most immigrants asked on TV. It was quashed pretty quickly.

I'm more than happy that the Lord's Prayer was removed from our schools though, eons ago.


Eh? I was talking about my tree removal and that guy offering to do it as a cash deal to avoid taxes. In the end I paid tax on the actual tree removal, but paid for the stump removal in cash.

Anyways, your stubborness here is pretty symptomatic of the problem. You claim not to be racist, but when confronted with your use of a derogatory term that is considered racist by many in the population to which it refers, you think they should just calm down.

And I'm shocked you think this is OK in modern Canada.



KKK costume at Legion Halloween party disgusts many in Ontario town - The Globe and Mail

Fortunately, most people in that city were more enlightened than that, and immediately condemned it. They didn't just tell the black store owner to calm down.

Intent count's. Was it in bad taste... Yup. Did it offend lots of people... Yup... Is it something that is part of our historical past... Yup. Was it racist... No. Stupid yes but not racist.

Other offensive Customs include
Suicide Bomber
Catholic Priests
Hitler and Nazi's
Abortion themed costumes
Catastrophe Victims

[Eug]

Athens, your views are your own, and that's fine, but you seem to need to loudly proclaim how non-racist they are, almost as compensation. It's as if you proclaim them loud enough, you'll eventually drown out those who consider some of it racist.

BTW, I've been rear-ended twice in Toronto since the 90s (when I moved here)... Once was a Caucasian man, and once was a Caucasian woman.

[Click170]

Originally Posted by Eug 

KKK costume at Legion Halloween party disgusts many in Ontario town - The Globe and Mail

Fortunately, most people in that city were more enlightened than that, and immediately condemned it. They didn't just tell the black store owner to calm down.

Frankly, the first thing that came to my mind was "..Art?"

Does it make people think? Absolutely.
Does it make them question the status quo? You bet.
Is it tasteful? Well, that's too subjective to say.
I think its interesting though that most people don't "get" modern art, and at the same time, most people get pissed off at expressions such as this one which I think in all fairness can qualify as art.
I'm just pointing out that good art makes people think and question, and that's exactly what that little escapade did.

Did their parents know they were going out dressed like that? If so, epic lawls, someone's got a sense of humor.

Also, I think its worth noting that they "[were] awarded first prize at a Royal Canadian Legion Halloween party". Obviously it wasn't the case that 100% of the people thought that costume was inappropriate or they wouldn't have been allowed to participate.

You know what _I_ find offensive is people who ignore scientific evidence because their faith leads them in the other direction. I find that not only deeply offensive to me personally, but to all of mankind. As far as I'm concerned, they're holding back scientific progression for the sake of an invisible man who lives in the sky (pardon my comical generalization).
I'm thinking of evangelical types from the southern states when I say that, the kind who blindly (and humorously) deny the theory of evolution, when I say this.

You don't have a right to _not_ be offended.
You _do_ have a right to go somewhere else.
I'm also fervently against sensitivity training for the same reasons.

[Click170]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Athens, your views are your own, and that's fine, but you seem to need to loudly proclaim how non-racist they are

Maybe that's got something to do with all of the people on here who jump at the chance to proclaim that any generalization even _involving_ race is racist... Usually with a blind sweeping statement like, "Your racist."

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Athens, your views are your own, and that's fine, but you seem to need to loudly proclaim how non-racist they are, almost as compensation. It's as if you proclaim them loud enough, you'll eventually drown out those who consider some of it racist.

BTW, I've been rear-ended twice in Toronto since the 90s (when I moved here)... Once was a Caucasian man, and once was a Caucasian woman.

You can't make the entire world happy. No matter what you will offend some one some way. Things that shouldn't be offended and most people wouldn't take offence are still offensive to others. If the world tried to stop all things offensive we would all live in white walled boxes with no TV, no Printed material and no person to person interaction. Because its just not possible.

Let me put it this way, and this will prob sound cold hearted but this is really how I feel about this one. A Japanese man who is old, who first hand has been assaulted by mean words and actions due to his Ethnic background has every right to be offended by the very same words even today. Same goes for Black people, those that suffered actual abuse because of there skin color from society have every right to be hurt, mad and bitter even today. But when I hear some 20 year old punk start talking about how he comes from slaves, how the actions of 50 years ago hurts him personally, he is owed. He hurts with his people and tries to be offended by shit he never saw, never had done to him... Not a chance, not a chance in hell. He has no idea what he is talking about. He has no right or claim. Im not talking about random racism here either, because every one suffers that. Ive had racial slurs chucked at me a few times. Im talking about those that play the victim card who are not victims of when it was society as a whole that was doing the harm.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Athens 

I would only accept full blown citizens as unconditional. Permanent resident just means that, a foreigner who lives here with no set term.

Then you'll need to restructure the entire immigration process and these statuses and their roles, legalities, the actual IDs and their functions, etc. Many permanent residents can apply to become citizens, and in many countries denouncing your old citizenship is not required, the citizenship test is super easy to pass, so there is no real downside to do so aside from the expense. A person doesn't fundamentally change because they have a new form of ID.

Your idea needs a lot more thought.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Then you'll need to restructure the entire immigration process and these statuses and their roles, legalities, the actual IDs and their functions, etc. Many permanent residents can apply to become citizens, and in many countries denouncing your old citizenship is not required, the citizenship test is super easy to pass, so there is no real downside to do so aside from the expense. A person doesn't fundamentally change because they have a new form of ID.

Your idea needs a lot more thought.

Something my Dutch friend told me about the other day I like. The Netherlands basically requires a person to know Dutch or English before even setting foot in the Country for the purposes of immigrating there. The only exception is with other EU Countries because of the requirements and rules of membership.


So the entire system needs complete redesign, why does that require more thought. Is it a bad thing to totally redesign something?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

BTW, it should be noted through all this that actually, Toronto is a much more popular destination for immigrants than Vancouver. In fact, there were ~150000 new immigrants to Vancouver in a period of several years ending in 2006, and three times as many new immigrants to Toronto the same year.

First off, just because people immigrate to Canada/Toronto, doesn't mean they stay there. Go read migration statistics and then come back and talk to us. Also, Toronto has a population 5 times that of Vancouver. Therefore, our per capita immigration rate, by your numbers, is actually higher. Nice try, though.

In addition:

"Groups that help immigrants settle in Ontario will receive less money simply because fewer newcomers are moving to the province, Citizenship Minister Jason Kenney says."

Ontario hit hard by federal cuts to immigrant settlement centres - The Globe and Mail

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Athens 

So the entire system needs complete redesign, why does that require more thought. Is it a bad thing to totally redesign something?

Not necessarily, I was just commenting on the specific argument that you made.

I think in general a component you seem to be neglecting is costs - costs to us, and costs in fewer/greater tax revenue, and in the case of the former, how to sell this to the electorate.

Immigration laws may not be designed for the optimal cultural results you desire, but optimal political and economic results.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Not necessarily, I was just commenting on the specific argument that you made.

I think in general a component you seem to be neglecting is costs - costs to us, and costs in fewer/greater tax revenue, and in the case of the former, how to sell this to the electorate.

Immigration laws may not be designed for the optimal cultural results you desire, but optimal political and economic results.

You don't increase cost to the tax payer, you raise the fee's to cover the services being provided to the end user.

Immigration to Canada
$5000 Processing Fee (This Fee covered your application processing, the criminal background check. Verification of your Educational and Emplacement information, Your Identity and the cost of Interviewing your references.

$6480.00 This covers your Medical Insurance for 5 years. Because this is post collecting Medical Insurance cost for 60 months, if you leave the country or fail to be accepted this will be returned in full or the portion unused when you left.

$50 000 Deposit bond held in trust for 5 years. This bond is forfeited if convicted of any crimes in Canada

and so on and so on. Let the person moving here pay for it all.

Skilled Class such as Doctors or any other skill in demand that needs to be filled gets exempt from much of the fees and deposits.

[besson3c]

All of which has specific consequences and side effects

[freudling]

Korean immigrant charged 13 years in prison for 4 attacks in Vancouver. Story of immigration gone astray:

Man who attacked four homeless people in Vancouver loses appeal

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Athens 

You don't increase cost to the tax payer, you raise the fee's to cover the services being provided to the end user.

Immigration to Canada
$5000 Processing Fee (This Fee covered your application processing, the criminal background check. Verification of your Educational and Emplacement information, Your Identity and the cost of Interviewing your references.

$6480.00 This covers your Medical Insurance for 5 years. Because this is post collecting Medical Insurance cost for 60 months, if you leave the country or fail to be accepted this will be returned in full or the portion unused when you left.

$50 000 Deposit bond held in trust for 5 years. This bond is forfeited if convicted of any crimes in Canada

$50,000????????? Are you mental? My family makes well over $120k a year, but $50,000 is well out of range to write on a single check. I'm sorry, but if it costs over $60,000 simply to get in a country, your economy will, quite simply, die.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

$50,000????????? Are you mental? My family makes well over $120k a year, but $50,000 is well out of range to write on a single check. I'm sorry, but if it costs over $60,000 simply to get in a country, your economy will, quite simply, die.

Not to mention, it is unfair to particular currencies and foreign economies.

I'm not sure why these guys seem to have difficulty seeing that these changes are not as simple as they think they ought to be, but I appreciate the spirit in wanting to improve what they see as needing improvement!

[Athens]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

$50,000????????? Are you mental? My family makes well over $120k a year, but $50,000 is well out of range to write on a single check. I'm sorry, but if it costs over $60,000 simply to get in a country, your economy will, quite simply, die.

Immigrating to Canada: Entrepreneurs and investors

$800 000 is already required from the investment category now, which a lot of the immigrants from China, HK, Korea are using to enter into the country now.

The majority of Americans, Europeans and Australian immigrants come here on the skilled point class. These have limits. Buying your way into the country has less limits and is already a costly way in which a lot of these Asians are doing since they don't qualify under the skilled credit category.

nvestors

The Immigrant Investor Program seeks experienced business people to invest C$800,000 into Canada’s economy and become permanent residents. Investors must:

show that they have business experience
have a minimum net worth of C$1,600,000 that was obtained legally and
make a C$800,000 investment.
Your investment is managed by Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) and is guaranteed by the Canadian provinces that use it to create jobs and help their economies grow.

CIC will return your C$800,000 investment, without interest, about five years and two months after payment.

Entrepreneurs

The Entrepreneur Program seeks to attract experienced business persons who will own and actively manage businesses in Canada that contribute to the economy and create jobs. Entrepreneurs must:

show that they have business experience
have a minimum net worth of C$300,000 that was obtained legally and
respect the conditions for entrepreneurs after they arrive in Canada.

[Athens]

Regular immigrants have to know English, its why not to many come from Asia in this class

illed workers and professionals

Skilled workers are selected as permanent residents based on their education, work experience, knowledge of English and/or French, and other criteria that have been shown to help them become economically established in Canada.

All the information and forms you need to apply as a federal skilled worker are here. Note: The province of Quebec is responsible for selecting its own skilled workers. If you plan on living in Quebec, see Quebec-selected skilled workers for more information.

The rules for applying as a federal skilled worker can change from time to time without notice, so make sure you visit this site regularly if you are considering immigrating to Canada under this category.

Our problem is with the BUY in immigrants which we have been flooded with.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Regular immigrants have to know English, its why not to many come from Asia in this class

Our problem is with the BUY in immigrants which we have been flooded with.

We've been "flooded" with people who can pay $800,000 out of pocket to enter the country? I think you've been reading too many conservative manifestos.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

We've been "flooded" with people who can pay $800,000 out of pocket to enter the country? I think you've been reading too many conservative manifestos.

Vancouver has been.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Immigrating to Canada: Entrepreneurs and investors

$800 000 is already required from the investment category now, which a lot of the immigrants from China, HK, Korea are using to enter into the country now.

The majority of Americans, Europeans and Australian immigrants come here on the skilled point class. These have limits. Buying your way into the country has less limits and is already a costly way in which a lot of these Asians are doing since they don't qualify under the skilled credit category.

A nation needs immigrants to survive economically and socially. If you put such a high minimum on the amount required to get into the country, there will be no young growth, only older wealthy, declining, investors. There are quite a few countries experiencing this right now. In 15 years, they'll be screwed. I'd love to move to Vancouver, but there is no way in heck that I can afford to pay $50,000 to simply enter the country.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Vancouver has been.

So, how many people have "flooded" into Vancouver via the $800,000 route?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

So, how many people have "flooded" into Vancouver via the $800,000 route?

Go pull the stats and find out.