[AlbanianGenome]

With the introduction of the new unibody white macbook the lines have blurred even more when making a purchasing decision. I have stated in a previous thread that I purchased the new unibody white macbook because I could not justify paying an extra $200 for case, sansdisk slot, and firewire port. I however just saw that on the refurb site they have that intro model Macbook Pro going for $999(savings of $200) I purchased my unibody white macbook for $940 with a corporate discount. I do not believe additional discounts apply to refurb macs but I could be wrong. The issue for me now is that I can still return this brand new unibody and purchase the Macbook Pro 2.26ghz 13". I would have to pay a $94 restocking fee however, so all in all, I would be paying $1100 for the refurb unit(almost back to my $200 difference again). Both models have the built in 7 hour battery, both run 1066mhz DDR 3 RAM and frontside bus. The white macbook has a 90gig larger hd however and its a brand new unit. There really are not that many difference between these two machines, any thoughts on what you guys would do in my situation? Always open for discussion on these matters.

[Eug]

The refurb MacBook Pro has a Firewire 800 port and a backlit keyboard. Both are important to me. It's also slightly lighter if that matters.

Sometimes the refurbs may show slight wear, but often they look pretty new. The refurbs usually come in ugly plain beige cardboard boxes, which isn't good for resale value, but most of the time when I've resold a refurb it hasn't mattered, since I don't even bother giving the buyer the box.

Refurbs don't get additional discounts AFAIK.

[freudling]

What a burning question, and one on many people's minds. So many reviews of both products... and they all say the same thing: Apple should cancel the MacBook Unibody, it is too much like the MacBook Pro! The MacBook Unibody doesn't have firewire, why would you want it?

So many reviews of products, not just the MacBook Unibody, that go like this: this product does not have the features that I want, therefore, it is not good for anyone else. That's essentially what they are saying with their closed minded prose.

The reality is that different products exist for different target markets. The Unibody MacBook is really a different beast than the MacBook Pro. And everytime Apple releases something new, people ridicule it until, over time, they come to realize that Apple made the right decision and the product ends up being successful.

The MacBook Unibody is for teens, children and older people. The slick plastic casing, the rubber bottom, the plastic screen... all intended to take a beating, spills from a drink, etc. It's meant to look and feel "cute", which it does very well.

It's not a computer designed for pro use... for one person sitting in front of it for 10 hours a day. Although it would perform well if someone used it like that.

The pro line is better for this. The aluminum is a much better conductor of heat, so having the pro sitting on a desk with long periods of usage is what that material is designed for. The firewire port, the SD card slot, the backlit keyboard, the glass screen... all of which are non-existent on the MacBook Unibody.

For instance, the backlit keyboard is good for dark conference rooms, on planes, etc. Not something people in the MacBook Unibody target market will really need, especially since they have a curfew, or in the case of older people, they will be hitting the wrappers quite early too.

The bottom line, the MacBook Unibody is cute, whereas the MacBook Pro is "industrial". Two different audiences. With that said, although all Apple products may appeal to us, some are a better fit for our lifestyles than others.

And to be sure, I have been in the Apple Store several times over the past week, and I have been taken back by what I saw. Every time I looked over at the MacBook Unibody demo models, they were ALL populated by children. All five of the display models, with other children lining up. There were no adults over there. And they were placed amongst the iMacs and the MacBook Pros. I am not going to make a hasty generalization based on this, but these random observations are significant.

I trust Apple: they know what they are doing. You mention corporate discount. Obviously you are an "adult" who probably works for a living, maybe even owning your own business. If I were you, I would get the MacBook Pro. But if you really love the MacBook Unibody, then that is that. If you were in highschool, or an older person, I would tell you to get the MacBook Unibody.

[Eug]

^^^ Not sure what you're on about, but the previews I've seen have been quite positive for the white Unibody.

However, there are definite differences between the unibody and the Pro, the most obvious of which (besides the case) are the backlit keyboard and Firewire.

BTW, the white unibody is definitely not just a kids' laptop.

The MacBook Unibody is for teens, children and older people. The slick plastic casing, the rubber bottom, the plastic screen... all intended to take a beating, spills from a drink, etc. It's meant to look and feel "cute", which it does very well.

It's not a computer designed for pro use... for one person sitting in front of it for 10 hours a day. Although it would perform well if someone used it like that.

The pro line is better for this. The aluminum is a much better conductor of heat, so having the pro sitting on a desk with long periods of usage is what that material is designed for. The firewire port, the SD card slot, the backlit keyboard, the glass screen... all of which are non-existent on the MacBook Unibody.

I would hate to use the 13" Pro 10 hours a day.

[freudling]

Eug:

You are sort of twisting things and missing the point. I never stated that the Unibody MacBook Pro was just for kids. I stated that the target market is for children, teens, and older people. People newer to computers that won't be using them as much as people who work on them for a living. This also means the education market is on the menu.

And as for the reviews, some are positive, yes, and I agree with the positive ones, but many are not, even with examples from the more well-known sites. Let's take Engadget:

"The MacBook is an extremely competent, utterly boring laptop that doesn't have enough ports. If you're desperate for a new Mac and you've only got a grand, it'll do you fine, and the unibody upgrade and nicer screen are certainly welcome -- plastic laptops simply don't come any more solidly built than this. If it were up to us, however, we'd stay home on Saturday nights until we'd stashed enough coin for the $1,199 13-inch MacBook Pro"

Apple Insider, balanced review, but:

"The fit and finish is nearly as solid and precise as the aluminum models, but the shiny white plastic is a fingerprint and scratch magnet..."

"Apple's plastic notebooks have always been shiny, but the new model looks to be about as glossy from every angle as could be possible. That means after a few weeks, it will likely begin looking like a broken-in pair of comfortable jeans unless it is handled like the Hope Diamond."

Another:

Of MacBooks, minis and them thar surreptitious updates - Mac Planet - NZ Herald Blog

People are complaining about the absence of firewire and an SD card slot, even though some don't even seem to have an answer to whether they would even use those ports or not. Maybe they just feel they want it to have everything the Pro model does because they are somehow missing out on something.

Also, complaints about sweaty palms on the slick, glossy palm rest are also cropping up. I am just defending Apple by pointing out that this computer is targeted at non-professionals, although it could still function in that environment if need be.

And my personal opinion of the MacBook Unibody? I love it. I tested it a few times already and I really like the sheen, the fit and the finish. I just wish it was lighter with a backlit keyboard. I might even trade in my Air for it. Well, maybe not, but I still think it is a great unit.

[AlbanianGenome]

Thank you both for the insight in your perceptions of things. Freudling, I thoroughly enjoyed your deductions about the Macbook and the Macbook Pro as far as target audiences. I found myself chuckling about the kids being around the macbook, because I have dropped in a few times and perhaps it is because I am at a downtown location, I never see the children around. They are usually on those colored balls playing that lego game on imacs

I personally think the macbook is a sleeper, since it carries the same punch under the hood as the Pro does, and to me that is what matters. Do I prefer the aluminum look, yes, but something about the white is just plain goofy for a grown man to use, and that does not really bother me. If it was built like previous macbooks there would be no way I would purchase because I have seen the cracking issues and what not. As far as sticky palm rest, not that I have seen at all. Engadget's review I think was a bit "hipsterish" failing to realize and take not that the engine is just as powerful, and for those who do not need firewire 800 or a sansdisk slot, the macbook unibody is a steal really.

Sorry if this post is a bit incoherent, I am off to work and just wanted to drop in and thank you guys for your viewpoints. I was thinking about going with the refurb, but now that I am getting used to this white unibody I am really enjoying how odd it really is for a grown man to have a "children's" laptop

[freudling]

LOL. Hilarious. I know what you mean. It makes computing even more fun. Hope you enjoy it, and would be good if you chimed back in in a few months to let us know how it is going.

Lastly, I will break it down.

It's not just what's in the name... MacBook Pro vs. just MacBook.

One is really for the Pro market, the other not as much.

No Firewire port. For professionals, like graphic designers, photographers, video editors, etc., they'll need that high speed data transfer to their external drives. They use those constantly.

No backlit keyboard. Not conducive to dark rooms like conference rooms, airplanes, etc.

60% less color gamut on the screen: for professionals as mentioned above, the clear choice will be the MacBook Pro.

No SD Card Slot. Again, professionals are much more apt to use this than others.

Cute look, not industrial. Again, for professionals, the image of being professional... the Pro is the better choice. It's more serious looking, etc.

And then the irony. Grown up guys like you and me just want to use it because it is kiddish. Ha!

[Eug]

1. Most of the photo professionals I know of have little use for an SD slot. In fact, to me SD is more a consumer feature, as SD is the format of choice for consumer cameras. The higher end cameras generally use Compact Flash. In fact, I'm just an amateur, and neither of my dSLRs use SD. Both require CF.

2. The number one use of the backlit keyboard for me is in my bedroom when I'm there and my GF is sleeping. The number two use for me is when I'm watching TV and the lights are off.

3. At conferences and meetings, nobody ever cared that I used a white iBook or white MacBook. White is just a colour after all. However, both of those "consumer" machines had Firewire, which I very much like having, but it had absolutely nothing to do with my "professional" usage.

One of my colleagues uses a 17" MacBook Pro. Another just uses a netbook. Nobody cares as long as it can get the job done reliably. (I don't like using netbooks at all though, because their keyboards suck, and for a lot of stuff they're too slow. However, for basic PowerPoint presentations, and other Office type work, they're usually fine.)

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

1. Most of the photo professionals I know of have little use for an SD slot. In fact, to me SD is more a consumer feature, as SD is the format of choice for consumer cameras. The higher end cameras generally use Compact Flash. In fact, I'm just an amateur, and neither of my dSLRs use SD. Both require CF.

I don't see much use for the SD card slot on any machine, whether Pro or not. But when you are marketing a product to different target markets, this is an added feature that helps distinguish the 2 from one another.

Originally Posted by Eug 

2. The number one use of the backlit keyboard for me is in my bedroom when I'm there and my GF is sleeping. The number two use for me is when I'm watching TV and the lights are off.

But not for kids, or for the education market, or for older people who sit at desks with lights on when they are on the computer. The point is that it is not a feature worth putting on for the target market Apple is after with the entry level MacBook. And again, it helps differentiate the product from the Pro.

Originally Posted by Eug 

3. At conferences and meetings, nobody ever cared that I used a white iBook or white MacBook. White is just a colour after all. However, both of those "consumer" machines had Firewire, which I very much like having, but it had absolutely nothing to do with my "professional" usage.

This oversimplifies the fact that businesses spend a great deal of time and energy on setting an image for themselves. From regulating the clothes that people wear to banning stickers on company laptops, etc. The Pro MacBooks look more professional, no question.

And hey, who knows, maybe some of them were laughing at you without you knowing it...

But it could not be more obvious. With the two product names, Apple is telling you that one is for professionals, the other not so much.

From no firewire port, to less color gamut, to a plastic casing and plastic screen, to the white color, its more for fun, games and learning than for being deployed in a business setting.

Anyone who does not believe this is simply incredulous.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by freudling 

No Firewire port. For professionals, like graphic designers, photographers, video editors, etc., they'll need that high speed data transfer to their external drives. They use those constantly.

As does any student in a dorm where Bittorrent isn't throttled.

External hard drives, especially when coupled with a notebook, are far from dominated by the professional market. That being said, the only people who really *need* FW are people who do video work for a living.

The writing is on the wall for FireWire. Apple's been phasing it out of their own products (iPod 5G *cough*) for several years now. It's no surprise they're phasing it out of their computers.

No backlit keyboard. Not conducive to dark rooms like conference rooms, airplanes, etc.

But damn conducive to a student in a dark classroom, dark dorm room so the roommate isn't disturbed, dark bedroom so the partner isn't disturbed, dark room while watching a movie with friends... this is a pretty BS argument. I know you're just trying to justify why Apple chose to leave this feature off, but it has nothing to do with professional vs. consumer. It has everything to do with unnecessarily withholding features in order to manipulate customers into spending the extra $300 (or whatever it is now) to buy a MacBook Pro instead of a MacBook. A lot of non-Apple consumer laptops are offering backlit keyboards now. It's quite obviously not a "professional-oriented" feature.

No SD Card Slot. Again, professionals are much more apt to use this than others.

Really? Every professional DSLR I'm aware of uses CompactFlash over SD, although IIRC some DSLRs support both.

On the other hand, just about every peripheral on the market has some kind of SD support now. Cell phones and MP3 players support MicroSD. The Wii comes with an SD slot. Every consumer digital camera on the market that isn't made by Sony uses SD. My new ZipIt Z2 uses MiniSD. The ROM card in my DSLite uses MicroSD.

I'd say that SD is pretty commonplace in the consumer market. In fact, the laptop I'm planning on buying after I get a job, due to its lack of an SD card, is quickly going to be equipped with an ExpressCard SD reader.

Apple left out features like FW, an SD slot, and a backlit keyboard option in order to get customers to reconsider the MacBook and buy the MacBook Pro instead.

I get that you're trying to say that the MacBook is geared toward kids, teenagers, and older people, but I think that's kind of BS - if you're spending a grand on a laptop for a child, you've got a whole other set of issues, and older people are far more likely to use a desktop since the keyboard and mouse are much more comfortable for arthritic hands, and larger monitors are much better for aging vision. The MacBook Pro is better equipped for a student's needs - the only reason they'd get the MacBook is due to the lower price, not because it's "more consumer" than the Pro.

It's easier to show the differences between the iMac and the Mac Pro - the price and feature differences are quite large. With the laptops, however, this is just about capitalizing on Apple's market as a whole and trying to make as much money as possible.

[Eug]

Yep. The MacBook Pro is the 13" unibody with a few extra features, the most obvious of which are:

1) Sleeker looks
2) Backlit keyboard
3) SD slot
4) Firewire

For #1, that's meh for some people (myself included), but very nice for others.
For #2, it's great for both the consumer and "professional" crowd alike, but many people consider it an unnecessary luxury.
For #3, this is a great addition that probably has more impact on the consumer crowd than anyone else. For me, with my semi-pro cameras, it is completely useless.
For #4, this is something most useful for the video and music pros these days, but interestingly was on all the consumer Macs (including the white MacBooks) until recently, but was absent on the higher end aluminum unibody MacBook.

ie. About the only truly obvious "pro" feature of the MacBook Pro 13" is the Firewire port.

BTW, I lied when I said that nobody cared I had a white iBook. Actually, some people cared. As soon as I bought that white iBook G3, random women starting coming up to me out of the blue asking me about it. Some were nubile university students. Some were well-established professionals. Etc. They just thought it looked interesting, and a nice change from the black or grey laptops of the time. Then I sold it because it was too slow for some video apps, so I bought the TiBook to get the G4. Suddenly nobody cared anymore. That's when I realized for sure these random good-looking women weren't talking to me because I was a handsome guy. It was because they liked the look of the iBook, whether they were professionals or not.

And BTW, when I go to conferences I do see a fair number of MacBook Pros, but I also see white MacBooks, red netbooks, black Inspirons, blue ultralights, grey giant desktop replacements, etc. We don't really care what the laptops look like. We care about the content and slickness of the presentations. Somebody with a 17" MacBook Pro and a painfully boring presentation really isn't going to impress us much.

The MacBook Pro 13" is not really about "pro". It's about product differentiation and marketing. Yes, Firewire is pro and I spent the extra $200 because I needed Firewire. But also it's because I find the equally consumer and pro backlit keyboard feature awesome. However, when the white MacBook had Firewire and the entry level unibody aluminum MacBook had no Firewire and no backlit keyboard, I got the white MacBook because it suited my needs, and cost less money. If I didn't need Firewire and if the entry level MacBook Pro didn't have a backlit keyboard, I'd buy the white unibody MacBook in a heartbeat, and save some money while I was at it. OTOH, I betcha there are lots of "consumer" level types, like students and soccer moms considering the MacBook Pro over the MacBook simply because they have a consumer-level digicam which uses SD. It's rather annoying having to carry around a flash card reader... yet they make the pros do just that because their MacBook "Pro"s don't have CF slots built in.

[freudling]

The whole point of this discussion is to highlight that the MacBook Pro, when compared with the new Unibody MacBook, is more suitable for professionals who use computers as their tools for a living. There is no question about that. The difference in the screen's color gamut alone is enough to support this statement.

New MacBook Unibody = non-pro users.
MacBook Pro = pro users.

They WANT to make the products different so they appeal to the intended target market. I'll say it one more time:

MacBook Unibody: Target Market = children, small, young, children who are first learning to use a computer; teenagers, the social media crazed variety; education market (in computer labs); older people who also may be using a computer for the first time, or who are limited in their scope of use (I teach these people Apple computer skills as a volunteer).

All of these people in this target market do not need firewire, backlit keyboards, better colour gamut, industrial, aluminum materials, and so forth.

That said, for more experienced users like ourselves, some of us fitting into the pro category, the new Unibody MacBook is not the best fit. For example, I do love the new Unibody MacBook, but there is noticeable difference in the quality of the screen compared to my MacBook Pro. I would not want to downgrade to this, nor would any serious professional computer user. Of course, I'm not saying that the new Unibody MacBook can't provide good service in a pro environment, it's just not the best fit.

But that's ok, because not all of Apple's products are going to fit everybody's lifestyle, although most of them seem to do just that.

So when a product comes out that is a tad limited like the new Unibody MacBook, it creates some confusion amongst die hard Apple users because they try to wrap their head around the fact that it is only intended for a subset of users/potential users. And I think this has been a source of friction in relation to the entry level MacBook for quite some time, although it did seem to subside when Apple differentiated with aluminum unibodies. But now that they redid the product, confusion abound again, and negative reviews.

I'm positive it's going to sell well though. I tested it a few times and since I have owned every Apple laptop, save for the Mac Portable, I feel qualified to say that it is one of the best laptops they have ever made.

[Eug]

Not really.

New MacBook Unibody: Non-pro users, or non-multimedia professionals who don't necessarily need Firewire or the improved screen.
MacBook Pro: Pro users, or non-pro users who want an SD port or a backlit keyboard. These latter two features are definitely highly desirable for many non-pros.

Apple already tried to market the aluminum unibody to the consumer market, but failed... because of price vs. features. The thing cost more but provided little feature improvement. There was no Firewire for the pros, and there was no backlit keyboard in the entry level model for the consumers. ie. It was marketed poorly for both pros and non-pros. Their solution was just to add a couple more features to make the price premium more appealing to BOTH groups. Apple has created a good upsell computer, for both pros and non-pros in the 13" MBP. And for the <$1000 price segment, the white unibody still exists. And if past history is any indication, this segment will likely be their best selling category going forward, and likely with both working adults and teen students.

[AlbanianGenome]

I just arrived home and my my how this convo has grown into a beast of it's own I think the point I want to make is this, I have owned many a Powerbook/Macbook Pro in the past and I have always considered the white macbook to be subpar under the hood. I did not get so much caught up with the look or the impression if it not fitting what I am trying to represent. For the first time ever the intro laptop model caught my eye and for good reason, the internal components are identical now! Apple is crazy to think they are going to get me to pay more for a look, a firewire port, and a sansdisk slot. Again, in the past I had all these extra little features, backlit keypad, firewire ports, and those little extras that lure some consumers into the pro models. I realized I rarely used those features, but I did like the fact the internal components were much better(better ram technology, frontside bus speeds, graphics cards) That is why I purchased pro models in the past, but now with the new macbook unibody having identical graphic cards, ram technology, frontside speeds, I found no reason to go to the pro. Apple has always made it difficult for me to go with a non-pro model in the past but for the first time the decision is very easy. I use usb to transfer files from my external drive here and there, and do not need consistent hd transfer speeds daily.

I am thoroughly enjoying this machine, and I will let the world know IMHO Apple is going to need to update the internal components to the Pro series(use the new Intel chipset, introduce a new more powerful graphics card, or increase the motherboard architecture) soon or I feel a large segment of users that would consider Pro models will start to buy the white unibody macbook, well unless they get caught up in that image game and would feel threatened using a lady magnet laptop like the new white unibody macbook

[Eug]

Phil Schiller has already hinted that there will be no more Mac updates before Christmas. Why would they anyway? The MacBook Pros were last updated just a few months ago.

[AlbanianGenome]

yeah that is what I am saying, I do not think we will see updates to those machines until well into 2010, until then Macbook Unibody all the way to the bank!

[AlbanianGenome]

and the results are starting to trickle in.... MacBook (Late 2009) benchmarks Review | Laptop | From the Lab | Macworld

I can't wait for their extended benchmarks, this is going to get real interesting if they find the macbook white unibody beating out the macbook pro in every category, ouch! And the new heavyweight champion of the wooooooorld, Mr White Unibody Macbook!

[Simon]

Don't hold your breath. CPU/chipset performance will be identical. The only differences Macworld observed were caused by the uncertainty of their measurement and the HDD. The 2.26 GHz 13" MBP comes with a slower 160 GB drive while the 2.26 GHz MB comes with a faster 250 GB drive. If you CTO your MBP to come with a 250 GB drive you'll probably get the same disk as the MB comes with and overall performance will be equal. If you're still worried about disk performance beyond this, the best thing to do would be to install a faster HDD or SSD on your own anyway. It takes about five minutes on both models.

The MB is the cheapest portable Mac there is. There is no reason to believe it will ever be the champion of anything but price. If you're keen on performance you obviously shouldn't be looking at the lowest end model.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Not really.

New MacBook Unibody: Non-pro users, or non-multimedia professionals who don't necessarily need Firewire or the improved screen.
MacBook Pro: Pro users, or non-pro users who want an SD port or a backlit keyboard. These latter two features are definitely highly desirable for many non-pros.

Apple already tried to market the aluminum unibody to the consumer market, but failed... because of price vs. features. The thing cost more but provided little feature improvement. There was no Firewire for the pros, and there was no backlit keyboard in the entry level model for the consumers. ie. It was marketed poorly for both pros and non-pros. Their solution was just to add a couple more features to make the price premium more appealing to BOTH groups. Apple has created a good upsell computer, for both pros and non-pros in the 13" MBP. And for the <$1000 price segment, the white unibody still exists. And if past history is any indication, this segment will likely be their best selling category going forward, and likely with both working adults and teen students.

Yes really.

The bottom line: the MacBook Pro has a feature set that is more appealing to Pro users. No question about it. We can't help that you are incredulous.

And if you want better performance, go for the 2.53 GHz MacBook Pro 13". You can't get the Unibody MacBook in that speed either.

[Eug]

The MacBook Pro has a feature set that is more appealing to Pro users... and to consumers as well. The backlit keyboard is great for both, and the SD slot is a nod to consumers more than pro users.

However, the white unibody is the better bang for the buck for consumers, and some pro users as well.

The real point here is that the two machines are remarkably similar in many ways, and are priced close enough to be potential considerations to anyone considering either model and not on a super strict budget.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Yes really.

The bottom line: the MacBook Pro has a feature set that is more appealing to Pro users. No question about it. We can't help that you are incredulous.

Who is “we”? Certainly nobody’s agreed with you on this thread. “Pro users” covers a wide range, but there are certainly plenty of people who use a laptop for a living who don’t care about FireWire, built-in SD card slots, or plastic-vs-aluminum.

[amazing]

Injecting a small bit of hard reality into the discussion, MW just released benchmarks comparing the 13" MB and the 13" MBP:

The new MacBook also matched or bested the 2.26GHz 13-inch MacBook Pro in almost all of our tests—somewhat surprising considering the two systems have almost identical components (although it’s possible that the MacBook Pro’s smaller hard drive was a factor, or that we have a test system with a somewhat wonky hard drive). The MacBook blew the latest MacBook Air out of the water in all tests except our Finder folder duplication (only one second faster) and unzip archive (16 seconds slower) tests."

13-inch MacBook/2.26GHz (Late 2009) Review | Laptop | Macworld

That kinda makes it hard to call the 13" MBP a "Pro", doesn't it? When it can't beat its cheaper sibling?

[Eug]

As mentioned earlier, the MBP has a different hard drive, which is likely just a bit slower. Otherwise, they should have identical performance.

[amazing]

So, it's fair to say that paying $200 extra gets you a worse HD, that you're really gonna have to pay even more $ to replace?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by amazing 

So, it's fair to say that paying $200 extra gets you a worse HD, that you're really gonna have to pay even more $ to replace?

Yes it's stupid, but if you don't need 250 GB I don't see the point in replacing the drive, since the speed is still close.

If you want to do an identical comparison though, you really should get the $1249 MBP, since for that extra $50 you can get the 250 GB version of the drive in the MBP.

For me, I got the 160 GB MBP, and if I were buying today, I would get the same model, because I think the backlit keyboard is totally awesome, I need FW anyway, and I don't need the extra hard drive space. However, as I said before for many others the white unibody is the much better bang for the buck, for both consumers and pros. In fact, it is the one I recommend to most people, and one of my colleagues just bought one... And no, it's not for a teenager, a kid, or a grandma.

[amazing]

The wonky aspect is that the white unibody MB is now defacto Apple's education laptop--exactly the market where the support folks have said they need firewire target disk mode. Or, where they need to interface with older firewire video DVcams, etc.

Unless Apple is going to keep the older MB around solely for the education market?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by amazing 

The wonky aspect is that the white unibody MB is now defacto Apple's education laptop--exactly the market where the support folks have said they need firewire target disk mode. Or, where they need to interface with older firewire video DVcams, etc.

Huh? Err... no.

Remember, you can boot off USB 2, and most education has absolutely no use for FW peripherals.

Heck, I've dealt with a dept. that does 2D and 3D illustration, and even they don't use FW... despite the fact that ironically the entire dept.'s computers all have FW support... cuz they use iMacs.

Maybe if you were talking video editing or music classes what you said would be true, but that represents a very small part of "education". And for those that need/want FW (like me), luckily the MBP exists.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Injecting a small bit of hard reality into the discussion

Not really. It was rather like repeating stuff that had already been discussed several posts farther above.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The MacBook Pro has a feature set that is more appealing to Pro users... and to consumers as well. The backlit keyboard is great for both, and the SD slot is a nod to consumers more than pro users.

However, the white unibody is the better bang for the buck for consumers, and some pro users as well.

The real point here is that the two machines are remarkably similar in many ways, and are priced close enough to be potential considerations to anyone considering either model and not on a super strict budget.

The added feature set makes it more of a fit for Pro users.

And who is "we"? It's Apple and I. Apple is explicit about it: they are telling you one is for pro users the other not as much by putting "Pro" in the name of one product, and dropping it in the other.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The added feature set makes it more of a fit for Pro users.

Yet, as mentioned umpteen times before, SD is not a pro feature, and backlit keyboards are great for both pros and non-pros.

eg. Typing in a darkened bedroom, typing in a darkened classroom, etc. Directly supporting flash cards from consumer cameras (like Canon's Rebel series and point and shoots), but not directly supporting professional ones (like Canon's 7D, 5D, and 1D), etc.

And who is "we"? It's Apple and I. Apple is explicit about it: they are telling you one is for pro users the other not as much by putting "Pro" in the name of one product, and dropping it in the other.

I guess that's why they advertise Aperture and Final Cut Pro with the iMac.

Don't mistake product differentiation and marketing for "pro" intent.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Injecting a small bit of hard reality into the discussion, MW just released benchmarks comparing the 13" MB and the 13" MBP:

The new MacBook also matched or bested the 2.26GHz 13-inch MacBook Pro in almost all of our tests—somewhat surprising considering the two systems have almost identical components (although it’s possible that the MacBook Pro’s smaller hard drive was a factor, or that we have a test system with a somewhat wonky hard drive). The MacBook blew the latest MacBook Air out of the water in all tests except our Finder folder duplication (only one second faster) and unzip archive (16 seconds slower) tests."

13-inch MacBook/2.26GHz (Late 2009) Review | Laptop | Macworld

That kinda makes it hard to call the 13" MBP a "Pro", doesn't it? When it can't beat its cheaper sibling?

Actually, no it doesn't. Here is why.

First, your tests smack in the face of logic and other benchmarking scores. My MacBook Air 2.13, which I tested on tasks like opening and closing applications, logging out, shutting down and starting up, and did the XBench several times, consistently scored much higher than the 2.26 MacBook Pro. It's the SSD that makes the difference.

At any rate, this is why it's more of a Pro computer:

It has a Firewire port; it has an SD card slot; it can house up to 8 GB of RAM instead of 4; it has a 60% greater color gamut; it has a backlit keyboard; it is encased in aluminum instead of plastic; and, it is lighter with a smaller footprint which is better for travel.

It's impossible to argue against these facts. And putting the two products side-by-side, there is a noticeable difference in screen quality: the new MacBook Unibody looks washed out in comparison to MacBook Pros. It's the same color gamut they used on the very first iteration of the MacBook Pro 13", and thank god they changed it and made it better with the latest ones.

And saying x person in an education market wants firewire: that's a small subset of the target market. It doesn't mean you can generalize and say that Apple should put firewire, backlit keyboards, etc. on it because of this. They are right not to. Children, older people, teenagers with curfews and tight controls over how long and where they use their computer... they don't need these features. It's good enough the way it is.

Apple's right, I'm right for clarifying these things and defending their reasoning... it's just the way it is.