[steve1341]

So the new iBook are out.

In terms of performance am i right in thinking that that the iBooks match the powerbook 12".

The CPU and cache are the same!!

Thoughts?

[Voch]

There are still a few differences...but it's closer than it was. I think the 12" PowerBook still has a market. If my TiBook were to die right now I'd be getting that 12" iBook (it's still a nice jump from my 667 DVI).

PowerBook 12" 1.33Ghz vs. iBook 12" 1.2Ghz vs. iBook 14" 1.33Ghz

* 1.33Ghz vs. 1.2Ghz vs. 1.33Ghz
* 167Mhz bus vs. 133Mhz bus vs. 133Mhz bus
* DVI-out vs. VGA out vs. VGA out
* mutliple displays vs. using display hack vs. using display hack
* 64MB GeForce FX Go5200 vs. 32MB ATI Radeon 9200 vs. 32MB ATI Radeon 9200
* smallest vs. small vs. larger
* 60GB base HD vs. 30GB base HD vs. 60GB base HD (all have options to add more...I don't think you can get 5400RPM BTO from Apple on an iBook, though)
* BT standard vs. BT option vs. BT option
* superdrive option vs. no superdrive option vs. superdrive option

[jamil5454]

Originally posted by Voch:
There are still a few differences...but it's closer than it was. I think the 12" PowerBook still has a market. If my TiBook were to die right now I'd be getting that 12" iBook (it's still a nice jump from my 667 DVI).

PowerBook 12" 1.33Ghz vs. iBook 12" 1.2Ghz vs. iBook 14" 1.33Ghz

* 1.33Ghz vs. 1.2Ghz vs. 1.33Ghz
* 167Mhz bus vs. 133Mhz bus vs. 133Mhz bus
* DVI-out vs. VGA out vs. VGA out
* mutliple displays vs. using display hack vs. using display hack
* 64MB GeForce FX Go5200 vs. 32MB ATI Radeon 9200 vs. 32MB ATI Radeon 9200
* smallest vs. small vs. larger
* 60GB base HD vs. 30GB base HD vs. 60GB base HD (all have options to add more...I don't think you can get 5400RPM BTO from Apple on an iBook, though)
* BT standard vs. BT option vs. BT option
* superdrive option vs. no superdrive option vs. superdrive option

one more thing -
* max 2Gb RAM vs. max 1.25Gb RAM vs. max 1.25Gb RAM

[tonywong]

Originally posted by jamil5454:
one more thing -
* max 2Gb RAM vs. max 1.25Gb RAM vs. max 1.25Gb RAM

erm, I didn't see that on the Apple site. It states 12" powerbook ram options maxed out to 1.25GB.

[jewing80]

Tony's correct the 256 MB SO-DIMM on the 12" PB is not user upgradable. The two major differences that will directly affect performance are the GPU and the bus speed. The clock difference is minimal and I don't see it making a significant difference in day to day applications. The GPU will only really be an issue if gaming or working with GPU intensive apps. For internet browsing, e-mail, word processing, iApps and the like both would perform very similarly. The bus is the bottleneck in my mind, that said it should be fine for the above mentioned tasks.

A 12" iBook with internal Bluetooth and a 60 GB HD is still ~$476 less (non student pricing) than the stock 12" PB. Even-though I've only ever owned PowerBooks if I had to have a 12" machine I think I'd save the $500 and go with an iBook. If the next revision of the 12" PB brings a 128 MB 9700 option, 7200 RPM HD option, GBE, and the option to add 2GB of RAM (heck even 512 built in) I'd be willing to pay essentially whatever Apple asks. Unfortunately I doubt that those options will all be available.

[lord vader]

Some were i read that the 32mg 9200 was just as good at games
as the 64mg 5200. They were comparing the old ibooks to the powerbooks. The only diference was that the 5200 did ever so Slightly performed better than the ibook in photoshop, but the 5200 also supports coreimage.

[Randman]

Originally posted by jamil5454:
max 2Gb RAM vs. max 1.25Gb RAM vs. max 1.25Gb RAM

Wrong. Should be sure before you post. The 15s and 17s can go to 2GB, the 12PB has the same limits as the iBook range, 1.25GB.

For now, the iBooks are getting closer and closer to the PB12, though the 15s and 17s are still ahead of the curve.

[MilkmanDan]

So why is it the iBooks have a better graphics card then my 1.33 12in Powerbook?

[buffalolee]

Originally posted by MilkmanDan:
So why is it the iBooks have a better graphics card then my 1.33 12in Powerbook?

Think again.

The 12" Powerbook is compatible with Core Image technology in Mac OSX 10.4. The current iBooks with the Radeon 9200 isn't even compatible with it.

[A Ghost Is Born]

Originally posted by lord vader:
Some were i read that the 32mg 9200 was just as good at games
as the 64mg 5200. They were comparing the old ibooks to the powerbooks. The only diference was that the 5200 did ever so Slightly performed better than the ibook in photoshop, but the 5200 also supports coreimage.

I know a few people that use the 9200 and the 5200 with similiar notebook specs as well as similiar computer specs. Neither had a distinct advantage. However this Core Image feature is apparently important. Do I think it's that big of a deal? Probably not. The feature seems important to users who need higher performance (not your average iBook user). I don't think this is going to make a big difference to current iBook users, otherwise they would save a little cash and get into a PowerBook.

[SSharon]

also a small note is that the 14" ibook upper model now comes with a superdrive stock its not BTO, while the $1600 powerbook is only a combo drive.

[jamil5454]

Originally posted by jamil5454:
one more thing -
* max 2Gb RAM vs. max 1.25Gb RAM vs. max 1.25Gb RAM

April fools!

[fishguy]

So what is the difference in regard to keyboard, general durability of the case, screen quality, etc. I'm about to go with the new iBook but my nearest Apple dealer is too far of a drive. I understand the spec differences but what about other issues that may or may not lead one to a PB over an iBook. I have a Powermac so max performance is not what I'm after, mainly portability and keeping price down. It will be used for iLife and surfing.

thanks
fishguy

[jamil5454]

From what I hear, the iBook is more rugged. It also has a longer battery life. My 12" feels solid as a rock. Unless you need the superdrive/ small margin of extra performance, I'd stick with the iBook. You can get it + 512 stick of RAM for $1100.

[jewing80]

The Apple store at The Grove had a new 12� iBook sitting right next to a 12� PB both machines were configured with 512 MB of RAM and combo drives. Although both were hampered by �automatic� power management settings the performance was very, very similar. Opening and closing apps was a bit faster on the PB; I think this has more to do with the larger, thus denser, thus theoretically faster hard drive as opposed to the faster clock.

In-app performance was almost indistinguishable, Final Cut Express, Garage Band and all the standard apps performed almost identically. Unfortunately there were no games preinstalled so judging 3D performance differences was impossible. Screen sharpness and brightness was exactly the same. In all honesty the iBook screen looked slightly better, but I can�t put my finger on why. In the fairly noisy environment it was tough to hear the differences in internal speakers. Both sounded relatively the same but again a lot was lost due to ambient noise.

It was very tough to �eyeball� the size difference. The PB did seem a bit lighter but again it was very close. One troubling point was the Airport reception. The PowerBook held firm at full reception where as the iBook fluctuated greatly and at times would lose connection all together. This is especially troubling seeing as I was in the Apple store, they probably have at least two or three base stations and repeaters in various locations. In fairness the 12� iBook sitting directly across from the one I was using was holding strong at full reception. Build quality felt good, not as �stiff� as the PowerBook but close.

After a half hour of fiddling I reaffirmed my beliefs which up until this point were based solely on the �specs�. The 12� PB in its current configuration will still have a strong appeal to those who truly need the additional features/options. If a buyer needs a DVI out, a 5400 RPM BTO option, Superdrive, or a �low-end� gaming portable the PB is really the best option. For everyone else the iBook should do just fine.

In all honesty the hardest part of any purchase I make is rationalizing what I need. I have a tendency to buy the highest end because somewhere deep in my mind I�ve convinced myself my daily internet browsing, e-mailing and office apps require a �worthy� system. If my Ti wasn�t still getting the job done I might consider a new iBook, as it stands now I think I�ll wait to see what�s next.

One last point, a bit off topic I guess. I�m not very fond of the Apple store loading their display machines up with RAM. It gives the consumer a false sense of performance, and in the several sales pitches I heard no one mentioned the fact that the machine they were selling would not truly perform like the one on display. The sales people were quick to offer the customer the option to upgrade the RAM but the implication was the machine as it set on display was the machine they would be walking out with regardless of what options were added.

Jacob

[DaBeav]

I've tried both side-by-side at the Apple Store. PowerBook feels a bit sturdier, likely because it's metal and not plastic and doesn't "give" as much. iBook feels plenty durable however. Weight was hard to distinguish. The PB is a little smaller, but it's not too noticeable, at least not to me. The PB has a sturdier keyboard, mostly because it can't be easily removed like the iBook's. The PB gets warmer on the bottom since the Al case helps dissipate the heat. The iBook also gets warm, but the heat doesn't get transferred to the outer case as easily.

Here are some benchmarks from the older 1.2GHz 14" model, which should be the same as the current 12". Unfortunately a 12" PB isn't thrown in the mix, but it should give an idea of performance. The iBook is a few ticks behind the PB, but not by a huge margin. Unless you really need DVI-out or the absolute best performance possible, the iBook should work fine. Personally, I couldn't justify the increased expense, but YMMV. The only reason I'd get a PB is if I could get the 15" and widescreen.

[robby818]

Every powerbook i've touched is a bit warm under the left palm rest. not too bad but noticable. Performance wise they are pretty much the same. The real difference is in design. If you like the look and feel of metal then get the powerbook. if not then get the ibook. i was at the grove store on sunday and overheard a customer ask a salesperson to differentiate the 12" ibook from the 12" powerbook. the salesperson responded by saying it all depended upon whether the customer wanted a "pro" machine to run pro apps or wanted a machine for more basic needs. I disagree with that characterization bec they really have almost the same level of perofrmance.

personally i'd choose a 12" ibook over the powerbook, especially now that you can get built in bluetooth on the ibook. last week i configured an ibook w/ a 60 gb drive and bluetooth for a little over $1000 through the education site. i changed my mind at the last minute bec i've been using a dual 2.0 G5 and i just don't want to go back to a G4. I think that a G5 processor makes such a huge difference in performance that i am willing to continue using my windows notebook until sometime (late) next year when the G5 powerbook is announced.

[brettcamp]

I had the last G4 iBook before last week's revision, then moved to the current 12" Powerbook. For me, it was a good move because a friend wanted to buy my iBook and had to have it that week, and a sale made the PB only $200 more than the iBook. That was worth it because I wanted DVI out (for an external monitor) and I needed the twice-as-big hard disk. The PB's keyboard is really terrific, but the iBook's is OK. The PB's better video card etc. made little difference in my usage, but then I mostly use it for writing and surfing.

The PB is the best computer I've ever had, and I absolutely love it, but if I were buying now, I might well go for the iBook, now that the Airport card is bundled with it and the price is $100 lower as well. iBook is more durable and probably has better Airport range (although someone else posted here to the contrary) and battery life.

I still prefer my Powerbook to the new iBook (DVI is the biggie), but I'd have trouble justifying paying more than about $200 more than the new iBooks. In light of these new iBook revisions, Apple needs to upgrade the 12" Powerbooks PDQ, and they no doubt will in the next few months. Either way, you're getting a wonderful machine, with the PB slightly superior, but the iBook is certainly a better value.

[Randman]

Agreed. When I sold off my G4 iBook (1Ghz), I would have gone to the PB12 if it were a little closer in specs to the current 15 and 17s. But since I was able to get a 17 at the price of a 15 (with free A/C), it was too good of a deal to pass up and I'm glad as the 17 is considerably better than the iBooks.

[iCare]

iBook is actually on sale now on the Apple web site. I don't know that this information would help or not. I myself own a 12" Powerbook G4 SD, and I just love it! This is my very first Mac and I'm very impressed with how powerful this little machine is.