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Goldfinger · Oct 19, 2005, 04:07 PM

What do you all think about it ?

It sure looks great, the loupe alone is worth it but the price is a bit steep and the system req. are well...insane.

Randman · Oct 19, 2005, 04:08 PM

I don't think people will be trading in Adobe Photoshop anytime soon.

Goldfinger · Oct 19, 2005, 04:16 PM

Yeah well, it's not meant to replace Photoshop. It's iPhoto on steroids.

chabig · Oct 19, 2005, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

I don't think people will be trading in Adobe Photoshop anytime soon.

I don't think these products are addressing the same market. Aperture does not seem to be a photo editor as much as it's a professional workflow tool for photographers.

Chris

monkeybrain · Oct 19, 2005, 04:37 PM

It does look very nice. Nicest interface I've seen from Apple in years as well (hint: employ those guys to do the next OS interface Steve). I guess the steep requirements are because it uses lots of Core Image.

Hoping some of Aperture rubs off onto the next version of iPhoto (then it would really kill Picasa).

Maflynn · Oct 19, 2005, 04:39 PM

Looks good, I"m considering it.

Its not a PS competitor but a iView pro competitor.

Pricey and steep requirements but overall looks like a nice app.

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Oct 19, 2005, 04:42 PM

Aperture is neither "iPhoto on steroids", nor a "Photoshop killer." It addresses a very specific professional niche that has been, to date, addressed by assorted apps, utilities and kludges. This is huge.

rickey939 · Oct 19, 2005, 04:47 PM

Absolutely awesome.

tooki · Oct 19, 2005, 04:50 PM

Everyone should watch the "quick tours" on the Aperture page before commenting. This really will affect Photoshop, since many people use Photoshop only for standard color correction, cropping, etc. Aperture does this in a really novel way: only the unaltered original is stored as a bitmap, while all changes are saved essentially as filters, which are applied when you open a changed version. Unlike iPhoto, it doesn't save the bitmap of the changed versions. This means you can save many versions of an image without it taking up tons of disk space, and any changes you make later are relative to the original file (no quality loss from multiple generations of color adjustments, for example).

The organizational tools look amazing, too. The loupe is brilliant, since it works on any image, even the thumbnails!

It's expensive, but I may bite the bullet and buy it -- it looks like it could save me a LOT of time compared to the iPhoto/PS combo.

tooki

P.S. It absolutely is iPhoto on steroids (lots and lots of them). It does the same fundamental tasks as iPhoto: organization, image adjustment, and image sharing, but not image manipulation à la Photoshop. Aperture just has far more flexibility and quality controls than iPhoto.

Nexus5 · Oct 19, 2005, 04:54 PM

Looks great. It seems they have implemented some brand new usr interaction concepts. Take a look at the QuickTour movies. Also, the Aperture site looks awsome.

nexus5.

SoCal_BigFoot · Oct 19, 2005, 05:05 PM

It looks great. But I'm afraid it REALLY requires a new Powermac. It's designed
to do real time CC, on a slower MAc it's gonna be spinning ball time I guess.
What do you think, is it gonna run on a new 2.1GHz iMac?

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Oct 19, 2005, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by tooki

P.S. It absolutely is iPhoto on steroids (lots and lots of them). It does the same fundamental tasks as iPhoto: organization, image adjustment, and image sharing, but not image manipulation à la Photoshop. Aperture just has far more flexibility and quality controls than iPhoto.

Well yeah, my point was that it's so beyond iPhoto, that to compare them is a tad disingenuous. Also, it merits pointing out that what Aperture does in terms of version control/editing isn't exactly new. Anyone remember Live Picture? Image edits were a series of "filters" that also were non destructive until you wrote out a flat file, and you could step back/jump around in the layer history as well (they had layers before Photoshop, if I recall).

real · Oct 19, 2005, 05:21 PM

Sounds really cool, looks really cool, but the system requirements are crazy core image or not. I want that on my powerbook. Boooooooo!

Apfhex · Oct 19, 2005, 05:38 PM

It really looks amazing, but as I'm not a pro photographer and would have to have a new Quad G5 to run it (only a little exaggerated probably, hehe) there's no point for me. I watched the videos on Apple's site and was impressed. I suppose it WILL cut into Photoshop's user base, but in a very specific way. It's very clear who Aperture is for, kinda makes me wish I were part of that group. ;p

dru · Oct 19, 2005, 05:48 PM

I just watched the videos (use Safari, Firefox seems not to like the links) and I was blown out of my chair. This is incredible for a 1.0 product! There really is more left to Apple than just as an iPod company. Fantastic.

Nexus5 · Oct 19, 2005, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by dru

There really is more left to Apple than just as an iPod company. Fantastic.

Yea, thats right!

nexus5.

Boondoggle · Oct 19, 2005, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by tooki

It's expensive, but I may bite the bullet and buy it -- it looks like it could save me a LOT of time compared to the iPhoto/PS combo.

tooki

P.S. It absolutely is iPhoto on steroids (lots and lots of them). It does the same fundamental tasks as iPhoto: organization, image adjustment, and image sharing, but not image manipulation à la Photoshop. Aperture just has far more flexibility and quality controls than iPhoto.

I agree. I'm hoping to get it at the edu price of $250. Personally I think they should sell it between $200 and $300 to everyone. My guess is that there are a lot of somewhat frustrated prosumer iPhoto users who are looking to upgrade but can't justify $500.

Boondoggle · Oct 19, 2005, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Apfhex

It really looks amazing, but as I'm not a pro photographer and would have to have a new Quad G5 to run it (only a little exaggerated probably, hehe) there's no point for me. I watched the videos on Apple's site and was impressed. I suppose it WILL cut into Photoshop's user base, but in a very specific way. It's very clear who Aperture is for, kinda makes me wish I were part of that group. ;p

It will run on my 3 year old Powerbook. Slowest system supported, but it is supported...

moonmonkey · Oct 19, 2005, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn

Well yeah, my point was that it's so beyond iPhoto, that to compare them is a tad disingenuous. Also, it merits pointing out that what Aperture does in terms of version control/editing isn't exactly new. Anyone remember Live Picture? Image edits were a series of "filters" that also were non destructive until you wrote out a flat file, and you could step back/jump around in the layer history as well (they had layers before Photoshop, if I recall).

Macromedia X-res did that too if I remember correctly.

DeathMan · Oct 19, 2005, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Boondoggle

I agree. I'm hoping to get it at the edu price of $250. Personally I think they should sell it between $200 and $300 to everyone. My guess is that there are a lot of somewhat frustrated prosumer iPhoto users who are looking to upgrade but can't justify $500.

Watch for an Aperture Express in about a year.

I love the app. I'm not a pro photographer but I work with several, and I think this app could easily replace Photoshop for many many of them. It might at the very least keep one from upgrading every version.

This app makes me want to get a sweet camera, and start shooting!

kcmac · Oct 19, 2005, 08:25 PM

The Quick tours and Profiles are awesome. Apple has apparently done something very powerful for pro photographers. They all keep commenting how it is both old and new school. Simple, powerful and very directed to the user.

Did anyone else notice the little sounds when the menubars and lists are scrolled through on the Quick tours? Probably just something cool for the video but I wouldn't mind having that happen on OS X!

Cadaver · Oct 19, 2005, 08:37 PM

Aperture looks freaking amazing! While the price is a bit steep (though much more acceptable via educational discount), I think I may have to bit the bullet on this one. I've outgrown iPhoto, and I'd love to be able to shoot/manage RAW more easily (Nikon D100).

As suggested earlier, an "Aperture Express" would be just right for me, but I think I may have to order Aperture anyway. Glad I've got a machine that can handle its rather steep requirements

selowitch · Oct 19, 2005, 08:47 PM

I think Aperture is definitely a preemptive strike against the coming Adobe/Macromedia behemoth. Let's hope Steve and Company slay the Photoshop beast! PS is a great, revolutionary app, but it's getting tired out and Aperture stimulates the image-editing market in a very positive way.

DannyVTim · Oct 19, 2005, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Boondoggle

It will run on my 3 year old Powerbook. Slowest system supported, but it is supported...

I think you might want to look at the graphic cards required. I don't think your 3 three year old Powerbook has one since my one year old powerbook doesn't have one of the required ones.

But, I have a feeling if ones computer can use core image it will run Aperture.

DeathMan · Oct 19, 2005, 08:58 PM

You can tell when a user interface is good because its users say stuff like "This is just how I used to do it in the old days before computers." This is why "intuitive" is not arbitrary. An intuitive interface is based on something you've used in the past in real life.

In one of the profiles, they guy says something like to the tune of aperture is an interruption in the digital photo continuum. This shows how current software doesn't quite have the interface figured out. For example, the loop is something that has been used forever, but it is a breakthrough in software (whether Apple's designers came up with idea or yanked it, it's a great example of converting an existing interface from real life to software). You want to see a particular detail? bust out the loop, just like in the old days.

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Oct 19, 2005, 09:24 PM

On-screen loupes aren't new, but Aperture's implementation is a nice evolution of it; particularly how you can resize it.

onlykaria · Oct 19, 2005, 09:47 PM

yeah i dont think it will replace photoshop anytime soon. but i would LOVE it if iphoto had the versions feature. Adobe CS2 has it but its a pain.

Salty · Oct 19, 2005, 10:14 PM

I honestly think this is a shot across Adobe's bow. Adobe decided not to use CoreImage in CS2 and probably has told Apple they won't in version 3. My guess is Apple created CoreImage partly because they realize how much graphics pros would want this sort of thing. I doubt we would have seen Aperture if Adobe had decided to support CoreImage. We might see them do it but it will be because they don't want customers switching to Aperture.
That said this is not a photoshop killer by any stretch nor do I think Apple really wants it to be. Essentially the only real tools Apple has given Aperture users as far as the normal tools everyone uses in Photoshop are Stamp and Healing Brush. We might see a companion application that would do things like selections and what not, as well as pressure sensitive brushes with a Wacom tablet. But we might not. Frankly this is less a Photoshop killer, and more it crosses over into some of Photoshop's features for those who don't need all of Photoshop's features. As well it provides many ways to manage one's photos in a way that Photoshop doesn't come close to.
I would bet Apple is more than anything looking to make the Mac platform stand out against Windows.

philcozz · 10:33 PM

As an amateur photog enthusiast, I am incredibly impressed with the workflow/photo management aspects of Aperture. From what I can see in the movies, Aperture not only has the "cool factor" that you expect from Apple apps, but it is designed with the photographer in mind. It's pricey... but a $249 academic price may be worth it. I'm impressed so far.

DeathMan · Oct 19, 2005, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

We might see a companion application that would do things like selections and what not, as well as pressure sensitive brushes with a Wacom tablet. But we might not.

That is exactly what we will not see, and it is why Photoshop is Photoshop, and Aperture is a workflow application. And it is why Adobe shouldn't be *toooo* worried about Apple. Yet.

Frankly this is less a Photoshop killer, and more it crosses over into some of Photoshop's features for those who don't need all of Photoshop's features.

There will be some photographers that will not need to buy Photoshop because Aperture gives them just enough power to do the things they need to do.

I would bet Apple is more than anything looking to make the Mac platform stand out against Windows.

I think that goes without saying. They're proving that the Mac is the platform for making the best apps. Showing what can be done, when a company has the cajones to develop Mac only.

Salty · Oct 20, 2005, 12:27 AM

Agreed. Though to be honest I don't think many of us ever expected even an App like this. I wouldn't be surprised if ever since Adobe told Apple they'd drop premier for the Mac or even before Apple has been designing a Photoshop replacement that'll never see the day unless need be. Odds are this is simply Apple making clear to Adobe that they don't control the platform.

As well I get the feeling Steve really wants to make sure the platform doesn't hinge on any major ISVs. Basically Apple's making sure they have credibility in all their important markets.

If Microsoft leaves, iWork will fill the void.
If Adobe leaves, Final Cut etc already fills the voice Premier etc would have left, and now Aperture fills part of the void Adobe would leave. As well Aperture makes it clear that if Adobe did pack up shop Apple would have SOMETHING to take the place of their software.
For Audio Apple has all their bets hedged with Logic.
For consumer apps, really the bundled OS X apps as well as iLife actually filled a void that nobody ever bothered to fill.
Even with the processors Apple is moving to a processor architecture that they know won't suddenly have development stall and even if it did they would be no worse off than anyone else. As well they're encouraging developing Universal binaries which make them more mobile on the hardware front than anyone else.

I think Steve is really positioning Apple to be that company that is impossible to kill.

Judge_Fire · Oct 20, 2005, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

Macromedia X-res did that too if I remember correctly.

Yeah, and a piece of software called Live Image, too, which was supposed to kill Photoshop 3. It had filters as layers and was a lot faster with large (+70 MB!!) images. That had a lot of promise.

J

production_coordinator · Oct 20, 2005, 01:33 AM

IMHO, Aperture is too much power for me, but iPhoto is just too underpowered (and nobody has reviewed Aperture, so we may be getting ahead of ourselves).

I can't wait for Aperture express!

CaptainHaddock · Oct 20, 2005, 01:54 AM

I think Aperture looks awesome. Even the interface looks great, and Apple's Aperture website is lovely. Their designers are still on top of their game!

It's particularly tempting since I've been getting into photography lately, and I'm constantly hitting the limits sof what my camera and iPhoto can do. I really need both Aperture and a better SLR camera, but that'll cost me some money.

horne9 · Oct 20, 2005, 02:25 AM

so, do you think apple will make a similar workflow /archieving app for video anytime soon? or does buying foottrack pay off?

Mk · Oct 20, 2005, 03:20 AM

What if apple implements some Aperture workflow/new user interface/organization to Leopard itself? It's amazing that Apple can pack in so many pro features into an app but still manage to make it feel and look simple, uncluttered. Vista's explorer, on the other hand, seems to have a difficult time with this.

siMac · Oct 20, 2005, 03:33 AM

They can implement all the Aperture interface they want into Leopard as far as I'm concerned - this thing is gorgeous!

My only concern is no mention of Aperture so far on the Apple France website...

Goldfinger · Oct 20, 2005, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by siMac

My only concern is no mention of Aperture so far on the Apple France website...

It won't be out untill November. Don't worry.

Gee4orce · Oct 20, 2005, 05:09 AM

As a keen amateur photographer the idea of time-related stacks is just fantastic. This alone is worth the price of admission. With a D-SLR what you do quite often is 'bracket' a photo, with slight changes to the exposure or even white balance, or the focus or depth of field. So, in iPhoto you end up with a ton of images that all look pretty much the same. Exposure automatically groups these images into a stack, and allows you to directly compare and rate the different variations against each other.

Someone at Apple has clearly sat down with photographers, and analysed how they work, and come up with a workflow application that really meets their needs and requirements. It's just mind blowing.

I'm really excited about this app - but I think an Express version would really be more appropriate to my needs. Mind you, I"m not sure which features I'd want to get cut to make it 'Express' :/

I've always thought that the greatest strength of the Mac is that it allows you to build workflows - either manual or automatic - very easily. Exposure is pretty much an entire workflow in a single application !

Goldfinger · Oct 20, 2005, 05:25 AM

It really looks like something I need but the requirements are through the roof so I'll probably have to wait until version 2.0 on my Intel PowerMac.

JLL · Oct 20, 2005, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

It really looks like something I need but the requirements are through the roof so I'll probably have to wait until version 2.0 on my Intel PowerMac.

Handling RAW images isn't a small task.

Maflynn · Oct 20, 2005, 07:30 AM

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered it, 6 to 8 weeks, crimeny I now need to learn patience.

The things I liked the most is the non-destructive editing, so my originals are intact. I always take a backup of my shots before editing, so this helps. The efficient work flow from importing to printing/ordering prints/web publishing.

Right now my work flow is kind of kludgey and I was looking to rework it in such a way that let me focus (pun intended) on my photography and less on setting up catalogs, creating/altering web galleries, etc.

Of course the money for this was going to be used for a new 50mm lens - sigh I guess that will have to wait.

Mike

siMac · Oct 20, 2005, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

Exposure automatically groups these images into a stack, and allows you to directly compare and rate the different variations against each other.

I've always thought that the greatest strength of the Mac is that it allows you to build workflows - either manual or automatic - very easily. Exposure is pretty much an entire workflow in a single application !

Er, it's called Aperture...

Nathan Adams · Oct 20, 2005, 07:59 AM

Definately looks good. Although I don't currently own a camera capable of shooting RAW - it is on the wish-list, and I can see Aperture fitting my workflow a lot better than iPhoto.

However, being on a 2gz G5 iMac, the level of performance is up in the air. What would be nice is if Apple released a trial version, like they did with Motion, so people can see how well Aperture will run before shelling out the $$$.

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Oct 20, 2005, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Judge_Fire

Yeah, and a piece of software called Live Image, too, which was supposed to kill Photoshop 3. It had filters as layers and was a lot faster with large (+70 MB!!) images. That had a lot of promise.

J

It was called Live Picture, which is what moonmonkey was replying to me about to being with...

Boondoggle · Oct 20, 2005, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by DannyVTim

I think you might want to look at the graphic cards required. I don't think your 3 three year old Powerbook has one since my one year old powerbook doesn't have one of the required ones.

But, I have a feeling if ones computer can use core image it will run Aperture.

from: http://www.apple.com/aperture/specs.html see the minimum requirements.

"ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or 9600". That's what is in my PB 1.25.

Judge_Fire · Oct 20, 2005, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn

It was called Live Picture, which is what moonmonkey was replying to me about to being with...

Lol, what a difference searching with the correct name makes (within thread and in Google

), thanks. BTW, the first hit in Google returns this article with some great comments.

J

CaptainHaddock · Oct 20, 2005, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Boondoggle

from: http://www.apple.com/aperture/specs.html see the minimum requirements.

Apple's "minimum requirements" aren't too helpful, seeing as the Powerbook requirements are a lot lower than the iMac requirements. I'd like to know if it'll run fine on my 1.25 GHz iMac G4.

JLL · Oct 20, 2005, 09:46 AM

Your GPU isn't supported.

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Oct 20, 2005, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Judge_Fire

Lol, what a difference searching with the correct name makes (within thread and in Google

), thanks. BTW, the first hit in Google returns this article with some great comments.

J

I googled that too, I was looking for screenshots. I can't find a single damn screenshot of the thing. As I recall, LP actually had a full-screen grey/black interface somewhat similar to Aperture.