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Condemnation of Suicide Bombing is anti-Islamic?
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vmarks
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Jul 27, 2005, 11:13 AM
 
http://www.iheu.org/modules/news/art...hp?storyid=156


UN : Criticism of Suicide Bombers Censored at the UN
Posted by admin on 26-Jul-2005 20:01:00 (146 reads)
UN

IHEU today attempted to call on the United Nations to condemn killing in the name of religion, but were prevented from doing so by the heavy-handed intervention of Islamic representatives. The IHEU call, at today's meeting of the UN Sub-Commission on Human Rights in Geneva, follows moves by Islamic clerics to legitimise the current wave of terror attacks.

At this afternoon's meeting, IHEU representative David Littman attempted to deliver a prepared text in the joint names of three international NGOs: the Association for World Education, the Association of World Citizens, and IHEU, but was prevented from doing so by the intervention of Islamic members of the Sub-Commission. After repeated interruptions he was unable to complete his speech.

The Islamic members of the Sub-Commission objected to the speech as an attack on Islam. The text however(attached) is a report on recent critical comment on Islamist extremism by a number of notable Muslim writers and is a call to the UN Human Rights Commission by the NGOs "to condemn calls to kill, to terrorise or to use violence in the name of God or any religion".

The text referred to recent decisions by high-ranking Muslim clerics confirming that those who carry out suicide bombings cannot be treated as apostates and remain Muslims(1), a fatwa by a Saudi cleric that innocent Britons were a legitimate target for terrorist action(2), and remarks by Yusuf al-Qaradawi, dean of the College of Sharia and Islamic Studies at Qatar University who has visited Britain, that terror attacks are permissible.

Commenting on this censorship, Roy Brown, President of IHEU said:
"This is part and parcel of the refusal by the Islamic representatives at the UN to condemn the suicide bombers, or to accept any criticism of those who kill innocent people in the name of God.

These actions follow the refusal of the Islamic states at the meeting of the Commission in April to condemn those who kill in the name of religion, and to categorise their attempts to criticise Islamic terrorists as "defamation of religion".
"It is high time", Mr Brown insisted "that the Islamic States at the UN recognised that the suicide bombers are acting in the name of their religion, and to unequivocally condemn their actions."

Notes on the text:

1) “Islam struggles to stake out its position,” by Judea Pearl, International Herald Tribune, 20 July 2005, page 8.

2) Dated 20 July 2005, prepared, edited and translated by Reuven Paz, Director and Editor of the Project for the Research of Islamist Movements (PPISM): http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/s...5/london_b.htm

The text of the speech that was censored follows:

ASSOCIATION FOR WORLD EDUCATION
Case Postale 205 – 1196 Gland – Switzerland

STATEMENT: Representative David G. LITTMAN. Tuesday (pm) 26 July 2005
57th SESSION: UN SUB-COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS (25 July – 12 August 2005)

Sir, this is a joint statement on behalf of the Association for World Education, the International Humanist and Ethical Union and the Association of World Citizens.

It is appropriate to speak out during item 2 against a taboo subject at the United Nations: the radical Ideology of Jihad that includes calls for killing and terrorism in the name of God.

On 18 July a fatwa was issued by the British Muslim Forum, approved by 500 UK Muslim clerics, scholars and imams. Before quoting the Koran, it stated that: “Islam strictly, strongly and severely condemns the use of violence and the destruction of innocent lives… Such acts, as perpetrated in London, are crimes against humanity and contrary to the teachings of Islam.” 1

It has been argued that those who issue fatwas to kill innocent people in the name of Islam are not real Muslims [and should be treated as apostates]. But just before the London massacres a major conference of 170 Muslim scholars from 40 countries meeting in Amman, Jordan gave an opinion in a Final Communiqué, dated 6 July: It is not possible to declare these people apostates – they remain Muslims. 2

On 18 April during the 61st session of the Commission, a Parallel NGO Conference was held, entitled: Victims of Jihad: Muslims, Dhimmis, Apostates, and Women. The matters debated during eight hours at the conference by historians, writers, and human rights defenders are of crucial interest for the human rights of all. The dire effects of the extremist Ideology of Jihad presented at the Conference have been adapted as written statements for the Sub-Commission and are here available; these 10 statements and 5 related ones are listed with their titles in this text.

They include a background historical analysis of Jihad by Dutch academic Johannes Jansen of Utrecht University; of Negationism by Bat Ye’or: specialist on Jihad, dhimmis,‘dhimmitude’ and author of a recent book Eurabia [2005]; of the treatment of Apostasy in Islamic law and its inconsistency with International Human Rights Instruments by Ibn Warraq; and of women in Islam by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Dutch Parliamentarian, writer of “Submission,” a TV film produced with Theo van Gogh, who was slaughtered in an Amsterdam street last November by a fanatical Islamist.

1. Historical Background: Jihad Ideologies and their Muslim Victims – Prof. Johannes Jansen (Sub.2/2005/NGO/8)
2. Muslim Victims of Jihad in the Sudan - Sudanese human rights activist Hamouda Bella (Sub.2/2005/NGO/16)
3. The Culture of “Jihad and Martyrdom” in Egyptian School Textbooks - David G. Littman (Sub.2/2005/NGO/2)
4. The Culture of Hate in Saudi Arabian Textbooks and Growing Arab Reactions - author DGL (Sub.2/2005/NGO/3)
5. Jihad Ideology and Negationism lead to an Exclusion from Humanity - author Bat Ye’or (Sub.2/2005/NGO/31)
6. Apostasy, Islam Law and Human Rights - Ibn Warraq, writer on Islam and Apostates (Sub.2/2005/NGO/6)
7. Genocide and Slavery: Crimes Against Humanity in Sudan - Simon Deng, former slave (Sub.2/2005/NGO/15)
8. Problems of Muslim Women and their Human Rights Defenders (Introduction: Women) (Sub.2/2005/NGO/5)
9. The Plight of Muslim Women in Bangladesh, and other Muslim States - Taslima Nasreen (Sub.2/2005/NGO/28)
10. Women Victims of Islam – Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Member of Parliament (NL), Human Rts activist (Sub.2/2005/NGO/29)
*11. Arab Criticism of Muslim Extremist Activities in the West - MEMRI (see NGO/2; NGO/3) (Sub.2/2005/NGO/4)
*12. Written statement submitted by the Association for World Education (AWE) with the title: Background on “Traditional or Customary Practices”/Female Genital Mutilation (Sub.2/2005/NGO/27)
(*) The 2 statements (with a single asterisk) were not adapted from the 18 April NGO Conference presentations.
** 13. Jihad & Martyrdom as taught in Egyptian primary/preparatory/secondary school text books (Sub.2/2004/NGO/27)
** 14. Hamas: Sheikh Yassin/al-Rantisi – UN & the grave worldwide cultural clash (Sub.2/2004/NGO/25*)
** 15. Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas/Hizbullah/Al-Qaeda:Terror Legacy of ‘Jihad-Martyrdom-Bombings’ (2004/ NGO/26)
(**) The 3 written statements from the 56th Sub-Commission (2004) are listed here because of their direct relevance.

* * * * *

In our written statement E/CN.4/Sub.2/2005/NGO/4, we provide a warning by Dr. Ahmad Abu Matar, a Palestinian academic residing in Oslo, published on a reformist website the day before our NGO Conference. He stated that many Muslims in Europe foster conflict instead of coexistence and that they are being influenced by an extremist fundamentalist brand of Islam – and moderate Muslims are not speaking out adequately against this activity. 3

Mr. Chairman, the most essential and basic human right is the right to life! Several NGO appeals have been made to both the Commission and the Sub-Commission to condemn calls or references to God in order to justify any form of violence or hatred, and the use of any appeal to religion to kill civilians: men, women and children – but to no avail.

16 years ago 4 we warned both the Commission and the Sub-Commission on the lethal danger of the genocidal 1988 Hamas Charter. The slogan of that Charter in its article 8 – borrowed from the 1928 Charter of the Muslim Brotherhood – has since become the Islamist blueprint for global terror: “Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its Constitution; Jihad is its path, and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.” Regrettably, this and other extremist Jihadist interpretations of Islam have been approved by several Muslim clerics worldwide, including Yusuf al-Qaradhawi, dean of the College of Sharia and Islamic Studies at Qatar University. 5

On 30 December 2002, before the war began, the then Hamas leader al-Rantisi posted a Hamas website appeal for Muslims to flood Iraq with martyr/shahid Islamikaze 6 bombers. It stated: “The enemies of Allah…crave life while the Muslims crave martyrdom. The martyrdom operations that shock can ensure that horror is sowed in the [enemies’] hearts, and horror is one of the causes of defeat.” 7

Only by an unambiguous public rejection of this murderous cult of hatred and death can the grave dangers of a clash of cultures and civilisations be avoided. On 24 Oct. 2004 thousands of moderate Muslims reacted in both print and websites against this cult of death. [Details of some reactions are in our E/CN.4/Sub.2/2005/NGO/3: English translations from MEMRI]

Such reactions greatly multiplied following the barbaric civilian carnage in London on 7 July. Amir Taheri, reputed author and columnist for a London Arab daily, Al-Sharq Al-Awsat made a crucial point: “Until we hear the voices of Muslims condemning attacks with no words [of qualification] such as ‘but’ and ‘if,’ the suicide bombers and the murderers will have an excuse to think that they enjoy the support of all Muslims. The real battle against the enemy of mankind will begin when the ‘silent majority’ in the Islamic world makes its voice heard against the murderers, and against those who brainwash them, and fund them.” 8

This was followed on 9 July in the same Arab daily when Al-Arabiya TV Director-General Abd Al-Rahman Al-Rashed wrote, under the title Expel Extremism Today: “For over 10 years now, I myself and other Arab writers have warned against the dangers of the reckless handling of the extremism that is now spreading like a plague within the British community. (...) Like many other diseases, extremism is a contagious one. (...) The British authority's leniency regarding fundamentalist fascism has allowed many, including Arab and Muslim intellectuals and journalists, to adopt ideologies that promote extremism and defend criminals such as bin Laden and Al-Zarqawi. The situation has escalated to the extent that Arab and Muslim intellectuals fear the repercussions of condemning extremists. The battle we face is against the ideology, as opposed to against the terrorists themselves. (...) The time has come for British authorities to deal harshly with extremism, before complete chaos is un-leashed onto British society. In the past, we talked about stopping them. Now, it is time to expel." 9

We agree with both analyses. Those who brazenly justify their indiscriminate killing sprees in the name of Allah threaten the entire world with their crimes against humanity, cloaked and justified under the guise of Islamist Jihad Ideology.10 British Prime Minister Tony Blair, speaking in the House of Commons on 13 July, referred to this “extreme and evil ideology.” We have seen its devastating results in two dozen countries from New York to Bali; in the ongoing and indiscriminate slaughter in Iraq and Israel; not forgetting the hostages in the Bolshoi Theatre, Moscow three years ago and the faces of the murdered children in Belsan.

Sir, all of humanity is concerned by these vile assaults on our common future. In the words of the English 17th century poet, John Donne, we are all “involved in Mankind.”

The time has come for the distinguished representatives of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), the Arab League, and individual Muslim religious and secular leaders to be heard at the United Nations, united in an unambiguous condemnation of those who defame Islam by calls to kill in the name of Allah, or of Islam – not just a condemnation of the acts, themselves. Indeed, the OIC and other States have an urgent responsibility to include such a condemnation in the resolution on the “defamation of religions” that they have sponsored since 1999 at the Commission.

After more outrageous acts in London last Thursday, and with more on the horizon in Europe, we solemnly call on all the members of this Sub-Commission to adopt a clear resolution by consensus, or a Chairman’s decision, in which any call to kill, to terrorise, or to use violence in the name of God or of any religion is categorically condemned.

In face of this gathering storm: a global Jihadist cult of hate, death and destruction against the “Other,” we are again reminded of the words of John Donne:

“And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes:
1. BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/h...stm.Published: 2005/07/19 15:41:43 GMT

2. “Islam struggles to stake out its position,” by Judea Pearl, International Herald Tribune, 20 July 2005, page 8.

3. www.elaph.com (17 April 2005) http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...=sd&ID=SP92105
MEMRI, Special Dispatch Series – No. 921, 10 June 2005.

4. 31 January 1989 at the 45th session UNCHR, holding Arabic & English texts of the Hamas Charter of 18 Aug. 1988.

5.“Britain acts to expel Muslim firebrands,” by Alan Cowell, International Herald Tribune, 21 July 2005, pp.1, 5.

6. Raphael Israeli, Islamikaze: Manifestations of Islamic Martyrology (London /Portland, OR: Frank Cass, 2003)

7. MEMRI Special Dispatch Series – No. 457, 9 Jan. 2003. Extracts reproduced in E/CN/Sub.2/2004/NGO/25*. See also E/CN.4/Sub.2/2005/NGO/26 for references to the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hizbullah, and Al-Qaeda.

8. Amir Taheri, Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), 7 July 2005, translation in MEMRI Special Report, 8 July 2005 N° 36: http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...ID=SR3605:Arab Media Reactions to London Bombings:
“A Chapter in Word War III”. Also Amir Taheri: “And this is why they do it”, in TimesOnline (London), 8 July 2005.

9. Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), 9 July 2005. MEMRI: Special Report - Jihad & Terrorism, 12 July 2005, No. 37 (Arab and Iranian Media Reactions to the London Bombing - Part II: “The Attacks Were Anticipated Due to British Leniency to Extremists Acting in Britain”/“Expel Extremism Today” :http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3705

10. In early July, Le Temps (Geneva) published a fascinating series of six one-page articles from a forthcoming book by Sylvain Besson, La Conquête de l’Occident. (Editions du Seuil, October 2005) Earlier this year appeared: Frères Musulmans: dans l’ombre d’Al-Qaeda by Emmanuel Razavi. Two recent books by Bat Ye’or will help those trying to find their way through this Islamist labyrinth: Islam and Dhimmitude. Where Civilizations Collide (2002), and Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis (2005) (Fairleigh Dickinson University Press / Associated University Presses – both).

For many articles by Bat Ye’or, and a whole section on “Human Rights and Human Wrongs at the United Nations,” (pp. 305-472), which includes four important texts on “Apostasy, Human Rights, Religion, and Belief: New Threats to Freedom of Opinion and Expression,” being the four presentations made at a Parallel Conference organised by the same three NGOs at the UNCHR on 7 April 2004, see Robert Spencer (Ed.), The Myth of Islamic Tolerance. How Islamic Law Treats Non-Muslims (New York: Prometheus Books, 2005), pp.428-52. And: www.MaximsNews.com


-----

It seems a shame that a gentleman was interrupted and prevented from speaking on suicide bombing and terrorism. The UN Commission on Human Rights never heard the text, and the Islamic representatives who objected leave open the possibility that they support such suicide bombing.

Is calling on the UN to condemn suicide bombing anti-Islamic? Is refusing to allow such condemnation to take place de-facto support for suicide bombing?
If this post is in the Lounge forum, it is likely to be my own opinion, and not representative of the position of MacNN.com.
     
lil'babykitten
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Jul 27, 2005, 12:15 PM
 
The text however(attached) is a report on recent critical comment on Islamist extremism by a number of notable Muslim writers..
And who are these notable "Muslim" writers? Ibn Warraq, Author of book, "Why I Am Not a Muslim" and contributor to "secular Islam.org" Another gem, Taslima Nasreen exiled from Bangladesh for inciting hatred toward Islam.

It should be patently obvious that the objection to the "IHEU" text has nothing to do with Muslims at the UN refusing to condemn the suicide attacks, rather that no Muslim would want to be endorsing anything that originates from a group of deluded Islamophobes.

It's a nice try on the part of the IHEU, but unfortunately for them, they weren't subtle enough. And neither are you, vmarks. Your hatred of Islam is clear to us all and demonstrated continuously by these mind-numbingly stupid threads of yours.

Find yourself a more productive hobby.
     
vmarks  (op)
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Jul 27, 2005, 12:48 PM
 
I have no hatred, I simply refuse to buckle to those who preach murder.

What will you say to Amir Taheri, who says:

“Until we hear the voices of Muslims condemning attacks with no words [of qualification] such as ‘but’ and ‘if,’ the suicide bombers and the murderers will have an excuse to think that they enjoy the support of all Muslims. The real battle against the enemy of mankind will begin when the ‘silent majority’ in the Islamic world makes its voice heard against the murderers, and against those who brainwash them, and fund them.”
If this post is in the Lounge forum, it is likely to be my own opinion, and not representative of the position of MacNN.com.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jul 27, 2005, 12:56 PM
 
Isn't this sort of like how criticizing George Bush in unAmerican and criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic?
     
lil'babykitten
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Jul 27, 2005, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by vmarks
I have no hatred, I simply refuse to buckle to those who preach murder.
Yet you continue to ignore those that condemn murder. Why is that?

What will you say to Amir Taheri, who says:

“Until we hear the voices of Muslims condemning attacks with no words [of qualification] such as ‘but’ and ‘if,’ the suicide bombers and the murderers will have an excuse to think that they enjoy the support of all Muslims. The real battle against the enemy of mankind will begin when the ‘silent majority’ in the Islamic world makes its voice heard against the murderers, and against those who brainwash them, and fund them.”
I don't know when he said that but condemnation of the recent attacks in London has been very widespread. And, more importantly, efforts to root out extremist preaching are now getting the proper attention from the Muslim community and support from the security services.
     
lil'babykitten
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Jul 27, 2005, 01:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
Isn't this sort of like how criticizing George Bush in unAmerican and criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic?
When the few Muslims on this board answer the same questions posed by vmarks over and over again and explain the same Quranic verses he posts, over and over again, what other conclusion is one supposed to reach? I don't think it's stupidity, just wilful ignorance due to a hateful mindset.
     
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Jul 27, 2005, 01:29 PM
 
Indeed, it is sad when the leaders of a faith have to wrestle with condeming an evil act.
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Doofy
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Jul 27, 2005, 01:48 PM
 
It says a lot about the mohammedan community in the UK when it takes the police six days to find, via intelligence reports, one of the attempted suicide bombers from 21/7.
If the mohammedan community was really against suicide bombings, surely they'd have given all of the attempted bombers up by now?
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Taliesin
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Jul 27, 2005, 02:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
It says a lot about the mohammedan community in the UK when it takes the police six days to find, via intelligence reports, one of the attempted suicide bombers from 21/7.
If the mohammedan community was really against suicide bombings, surely they'd have given all of the attempted bombers up by now?
They are as clueless as anyone who might be a bomber or not. The bombers themselves don't talk about their plans or acts, they keep everything secret.

By the way there is no mohammedan community in the UK!

Taliesin
     
Doofy
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Jul 27, 2005, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Taliesin
They are as clueless as anyone who might be a bomber or not. The bombers themselves don't talk about their plans or acts, they keep everything secret.
If they're clueless as to who these people are, I suggest they get themselves Internet connections and TVs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4721645.stm

How do you think it looks to us when these guys aren't being given up by their communities?
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Jul 27, 2005, 03:05 PM
 
Funny how, in her very first post, LBK proved vmarks point, eh?

Instead of addressing the issue, you yell "Islamophobe" and quickly attempt to change the direction of the thread.
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Wiskedjak
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Jul 27, 2005, 03:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
It says a lot about the mohammedan community in the UK when it takes the police six days to find, via intelligence reports, one of the attempted suicide bombers from 21/7.
If the mohammedan community was really against suicide bombings, surely they'd have given all of the attempted bombers up by now?
How long did it take the FBI to find the UniBomber?
     
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Jul 27, 2005, 03:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
It says a lot about the mohammedan community in the UK when it takes the police six days to find, via intelligence reports, one of the attempted suicide bombers from 21/7.
If the mohammedan community was really against suicide bombings, surely they'd have given all of the attempted bombers up by now?
"Mohammedan"?
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christ
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Jul 27, 2005, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
How do you think it looks to us when these guys aren't being given up by their communities?
Who is 'us'?

White supremacist Islamophobes?

Well it sorta would like that to them, wouldn't it.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
christ
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Jul 27, 2005, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Macrobat
Funny how, in her very first post, LBK proved vmarks point, eh?

Instead of addressing the issue, you yell "Islamophobe" and quickly attempt to change the direction of the thread.
what issue?

In vmarks original post, he posts a self-righteous rant from IHEU's own web-site about how it has been foiled by 'Muslims'.

it is the oldest trick in the book for a pressure group to put forward a dim motion dressed up as a self-evidently righteous one, and then cry foul when a sensible person calls foul on them.

Not that a respectable organisation like IHEU would do such a thing, of course. They wouldn't indulge in selective quotation and grandstanding in order to whip up righteous indignation and to get 5 minutes in the news, would they.

Nah.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
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Jul 27, 2005, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ
Who is 'us'?

White supremacist Islamophobes?
Yes, that's us.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Taliesin
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Jul 28, 2005, 09:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
If they're clueless as to who these people are, I suggest they get themselves Internet connections and TVs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4721645.stm

How do you think it looks to us when these guys aren't being given up by their communities?
Good argument, but I guess they are either hidden in islamististic circles, ie. not living anymore where they used to lived in the UK, aka in the underground, and maybe they will be smuggled out of the UK at some point in the future, or equally possible equipped with more explosives to blow up somehwere in the UK and to escape into death.

Who knows, besides the terrorists, their helpers and God?

Taliesin
     
Macrobat
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Jul 28, 2005, 10:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by christ
what issue?

In vmarks original post, he posts a self-righteous rant from IHEU's own web-site about how it has been foiled by 'Muslims'.

it is the oldest trick in the book for a pressure group to put forward a dim motion dressed up as a self-evidently righteous one, and then cry foul when a sensible person calls foul on them.

Not that a respectable organisation like IHEU would do such a thing, of course. They wouldn't indulge in selective quotation and grandstanding in order to whip up righteous indignation and to get 5 minutes in the news, would they.

Nah.
Pretending to be thick in order to make some sort of point again?

The issue is that Islamic countries of the UN deliberately supressed the statement. Thi sis an issue that MUST be addressed, all of you keep telling us the UN is the place to address it, yet whenever someone attempts to address it there, they get shouted down.

"Pressure group" my left butt cheek.
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Y3a
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Jul 28, 2005, 07:22 PM
 
Lip Service...
     
nonhuman
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Jul 28, 2005, 07:40 PM
 
Why the hell do people keep insisting on using non-standard words for Muslim and Islam/Islamic?

Mohammedan? What is this the 18th century? Islamististic? Huh?
     
   
 
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