[ebuddy]

KERRY LANDSLIDE!!!...Oh wait, Bush won? Daschle's gone also? Majority Republican House and Senate? Indeed America has spoken.

I just heard that only 10% of registered voters age 18-24 showed up. I hope your lazy asses get drafted!

Uh...there's no draft. This ideal was a failed attempt by Democrat Charles Rangel to point out the numbers of minorities in military service. I reiterate, failed attempt. His bill failed miserably. Perhaps the Dems effort of getting out the young vote actually went to the polls and voted for Bush. Could be a message sent to the Dems that they don't want to be drafted, but I doubt it.

[Cody Dawg]

Mo:

doesn't that mean that the provisional ballots would have to break nearly 80 percent for Kerry -- in a state that went 51-49?

You're just about on target. The secretary of state for Ohio says 20% are simply going to be thrown out for being invalid -- happens every time.

That means that Kerry would have to get 60% and ALL of them for him. 60% of those votes still isn't going to give him the victory.

On a personal note, I noted yesterday that the people in my own polling line here in Palm Beach county were easily 50% women voting and some were holding babies. We were all talking amongst ourselves and the five of us standing in line together were all voting Republican. I heard this morning that a LOT of moms got out and voted...for Bush. The concerns? Values. Security. This is in a county that is/was primarily Democratic.

[boots]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
According to CNN also, Bush got 10% of the votes of registered Democrats, whereas Kerry only got 7% of the votes of registered Republicans. I thought that was interesting.

I'm still not sure what to make of that. I think there were a lot of people who decided not to change course in the middle of the war. Ed Koch is one of the big names who has said this is the only reason he supported Bush. The Mayor of St. Paul, MN, was another example. I think that makes the 10% vs 7% a non-starter for figuring out what went wrong for the party.


Perhaps that's the only piece of conventional wisdom that matters. War-time presidents get re-elected.

[djohnson]

Anyone else tired this morning? How long until you think they definetively say that Bush won? I heard that Bush is giving a speech later today.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by boots:
Perhaps that's the only piece of conventional wisdom that matters. War-time presidents get re-elected.

I also feel validated in my prediction (or at least, observation) that presidents who aren't challenged in their own party's primaries go on to win reelection.

[Xeo]

Woke up this morning and it's nice to see Kerry only 2 points away from Bush.

But Bush is leading in all 3 states that are undecided. So it's still almost assuredly Bush's victory.

[Buckaroo]

Originally posted by Randman:
Where's Michael Moore?

Hopefully he'll move out of the country.

[Captain Obvious]

http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=110872

Scary, some of you people actually relate to these nut jobs?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=110872

Scary, some of you people actually relate to these nut jobs?

Talk about delusional. damn, are they looking at the same results as the rest of us? Pretty funny.

[Busemann]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=110872

Scary, some of you people actually relate to these nut jobs?

Well, I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that the media (FOX News) was one of the key factors of Bush's victory in 2000.. Its all about creating a general feeling of who won and who lost during the first days after the election. When there might be hundreds of thousands votes left to count in a 51/49 split state, it is too early to call.

[itai195]

I thought it was over last night, and it looks like it's surely over now. Congratulations to Bush and the Republicans, I'm just glad this campaign is over.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Busemann:
Well, I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that the media (FOX News) was one of the key factors of Bush's victory in 2000.. Its all about creating a general feeling of who won and who lost during the first days after the election. When there might be hundreds of thousands votes left to count in a 51/49 split state, it is too early to call.

the only way Kerry can win, is to get >90% of the provisional ballots in Ohio. Given even the worst case scenario, it's a statistical impossiblity.

It's over, Kerry lost.

[mikellanes]

Originally posted by itai195:
I thought it was over last night, and it looks like it's surely over now. Congratulations to Bush and the Republicans, I'm just glad this campaign is over.

I wish it was over, but I don't see a problem with ensuring every vote is counted, its not like we NEED to have some final result right now, this is still very close, clearly Bush is in the lead but I think we should all relax and let all the rest of the votes be counted...

I heard they just found a box with 20,000 votes for Gore in Florida

[itai195]

Originally posted by mikellanes:
I wish it was over, but I don't see a problem with ensuring every vote is counted, its not like we NEED to have some final result right now, this is still very close, clearly Bush is in the lead but I think we should all relax and let all the rest of the votes be counted...

I'm all in favor of having all the votes counted, but I don't see the point in dragging out a concession when Kerry's victory appears statistically impossible. There are 135,000 provisional ballots in Ohio, and Kerry trails by 136,000 votes.

Personally I think this election signals big trouble for the Democratic Party (well obviously I'm not alone there). Especially if the Republicans put up a ticket with McCain in 2008

[boots]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
the only way Kerry can win, is to get >90% of the provisional ballots in Ohio. Given even the worst case scenario, it's a statistical impossiblity.

It's over, Kerry lost.

I don't see anyone arguing this point with you. I do see people saying let them finish counting and put the final nail in the coffin....but that isn't an argument that Kerry will win. It's an argument to let the system do it's job.

[boots]

Originally posted by itai195:
Personally I think this election signals bit trouble for the Democratic Party (well obviously I'm not alone there). Especially if the Republicans put up a ticket with McCain in 2008.

:drool: I would actually be able to vote FOR a candidate again. :drool:

nah. Probably won't happen because its something I'd like to see happen.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
According to CNN also, Bush got 10% of the votes of registered Democrats, whereas Kerry only got 7% of the votes of registered Republicans. I thought that was interesting.

The polls had been showing this all along. Exactly why I always thought it was amusing when many Democrats would insist the exact opposite -that Republicans were going to turn on Bush in greater numbers. In fact many polls were showing 15% to 10% of registered Dems were pulling for Bush. The crowd of people like a number of Democrats I personally know that long ago got sick and tired of seeing the far left hijack and derail their party, and who don't trust the Michael Moore/shameless propaganda-floating/conspiracy-kook/ set anywhere near being at the helm of ANY national security issue, any more than any conservative would.

I guess what we learned was the turnout conventional wisdom isn't necessarily correct. Lots of Democrats turned out, but so did more Republicans. My theory why the exit polls were so wrong is because of the anger factor. My subjective impression (living in a largely blue area) is that Democrats over the last couple of years have become very loud in their opposition, and Bush supporters rather quiet (cowed even) in their support. I think Democrats basically went out of their way to be exit polled.

Part of a very insightful post. I think you're dead on here- partisan, left-leaning Democrats definitely had the 'loud opposition' factor going. They may have given an impression they were the majority by being the noisiest, and most willing to angrily spout their anti-Bush views at everyone, at any time, appropriate or not. Meanwhile many Bush supporters, not wishing to constantly argue with angry partisan Democrats, kept quieter (in comparison) about their support of Bush. Save it for election day- which many certainly did.

It will be interesting to see what went on with the crazy exit polls- some of the findings can't be explained away as merely Democrats going out of their way to be polled. Several strange anomalies happened, like figures based on gender and race being skewed in impossible ways in some states. I saw a brief analysis of some of the irregularities that will be highly interesting when further examined.

[itai195]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
The polls had been showing this all along. Exactly why I always thought it was amusing when many Democrats would insist the exact opposite -that Republicans were going to turn on Bush in greater numbers. In fact many polls were showing 15% to 10% of registered Dems were pulling for Bush. The crowd of people like a number of Democrats I personally know that long ago got sick and tired of seeing the far left hijack and derail their party, and who don't trust the Michael Moore/shameless propaganda-floating/conspiracy-kook/ set anywhere near being at the helm of ANY national security issue, any more than any conservative would.

The Democrats I know who voted for Bush basically did so because they're scared of terrorists and because they don't think anything will change regarding social issues. They are still social liberals, and I think they are succumbing to a bit of wishful thinking personally. The only folks I knokw who really seem to complain about Moore are Republicans.

[zwiebel_]

Congrats to the Reps on their victory.

God help us now!

[TETENAL]

I never really liked Kerry anyway. So I'm sort of content with the results.

[ebuddy]

I disagree with you Busemann. How did Fox News help Bush in any way that other media didn't already help Gore??? Gore was prematurely announced the winner of Florida and in spite of legal-tactics unprecedented and voter fraud attempts to disenfranchise the military ballot and count all hanging chads ONLY IN DEMOCRATIC PRECINCTS, they attempted to steal the election. When they were exposed by a recount of ALL FLORIDIANS and their their agenda was exposed; what to do? CRY FRAUD!!! This is so predictable and we're seeing it yet again! You don't think it's ironic how almost all fraud went in favor of Gore and this election went in favor of Kerry??? This election, Fox offered Kerry the same exposure they offered Bush and Kerry would not do it. The Dems insistance that somehow Rove used "jedi mind tricks" and the media to win is absolutely proposterous. Meanwhile, it's refreshing to see that all of a sudden the popular vote is not so popular. Bush wins by over 3.5 MILLION popular votes yet Kerry is entirely dependant upon provisional ballots (most of which are bogus and many of left-over legitimate provisional ballots will also go 60% in favor of Bush, like the rest of the country), as proof that it is over. He'd do well to concede sooner, rather than later.

Look, the fact of the matter is that Kerry/Edwards crawled into bed with extremist, socialist left-wingers and unwittingly found themselves in bed with Arafat, Osama, Saddam, and numerous other Anti-American public figures. This destroyed their campaign. This illustrated how divorced the Dems are from mainstream America and America let them know how they felt last night. Bye Kerry, Bye Daschle.

Well, I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that the media (CBS NEWS) was one of the key factors of Kerry even coming close in 2004. Michael Moore, CBS NEWS, CNN, NY TIMES, ALL OF HOLLYWOOD, various 527's including MOVEON.ORG, all tried their level best and pulled out ALL the stops leaving no holds barred and no limit untouched to win this election. They failed. It is over. 4 more years. Integrity prevailed this election.

[zwiebel_]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
I never really liked Kerry anyway. So I'm sort of content with the results.

How is my Frankfurt am Main doing these days?

[zwiebel_]

... Integrity prevailed this election.

...with the country split ~50/~50

[xi_hyperon]

Well, it's over and I suspect we'll hear a concession speech from Kerry today. Congrats to Bush. I gladly voted for Kerry, so I am pretty disappointed today. Hopefully we can all move on in a constructive way while still sticking with our convictions.

I wasn't in here so much until we got closer to election day. It was fun participating in the debates and rhetoric, but now that it's over I probably will go back to the main lounge for the most part. Again, congrats to Bush and to all who were rooting for him. :handshake:

As a side note on one of the other major stories of the day: I can't say I'll shed any tears over Daschle losing his seat, as I had little respect for him in the first place.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by itai195:
The Democrats I know who voted for Bush basically did so because they're scared of terrorists and because they don't think anything will change regarding social issues. They are still social liberals, and I think they are succumbing to a bit of wishful thinking personally. The only folks I knokw who really seem to complain about Moore are Republicans.

George Soros complained about Moore, actually.

It is morning in America.

(borrowing from another great President)

My friends, we did it. We weren't just marking time. We made a difference. We made the city stronger, we made the city freer, and we left her in good hands.
All in all, not bad, not bad at all.

After 200 years, two centuries, she still stands strong and true on that granite ridge, and her glow has held steady no matter what storm. And she's still a beacon, still a magnet for all who must have freedom, for all the pilgrims from all the lost places who are hurtling through the darkness toward home.

Friends, this is a victory for all Americans. The President is not President of half a nation, but President for all Americans.

[boots]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
Look, the fact of the matter is that Kerry/Edwards crawled into bed with extremist, socialist left-wingers and unwittingly found themselves in bed with Arafat, Osama, Saddam, and numerous other Anti-American public figures. This destroyed their campaign. This illustrated how divorced the Dems are from mainstream America and America let them know how they felt last night. Bye Kerry, Bye Daschle.

You're still holding on to the partisan hyperbole? Sad, really. I think if anything, this election shows that there isn't a "mainstream." We have rural and an urban cross streams.

You've made some rather insightful posts in here in the past, so I tend to respect what you say. But do you really believe everything the propoganda machine spews? If so, it's really sad. Democrates are not in league with terrorists, and republicans are not nazi satan-spawn. The campaign is over. Can we move passed this crap now?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by itai195:
The only folks I knokw who really seem to complain about Moore are Republicans.

I would say that most folks, Democrat or Republican, who are honest, know they don't need shameless propaganda and lies to back them up. Exactly why I believe that many Democrats who hold legitimate politcal views, don't need, nor want the likes of Moore and his brand of propaganda anywhere near appearing to speak for them.

Of course Moore is just an example. The Democrat party needs to reject the entire far left spectrum of 'conspiracy kook' types, the 'blindly hating Bush beyond all reason and sanity crowd', the Dan Rather-media that fewer and fewer people trust, and not even give the faintest impression that such blatant dishonesty is anywhere near the 'mainstream' of their party.

[djohnson]

Kerry just called to concede Ohio and the Presidency. Now all news agencies are reporting Bush has won!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_election_rdp

[Voch]

Here's an update on the vote counting in Ohio from a local news source: Votes Still Being Counted In Ohio: 54 Counties Still Counting Absentee Ballots. "...yet-to-be calculated number of uncounted votes..."

EDIT: (or maybe not...read post above...)

[Busemann]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
<snipz>

No matter what the outcome will be, a Massachusetts liberal that gets 50% at war-time is nevertheless impressive. Kerry did better than what I'd thought at least.

Look, the fact of the matter is that Kerry/Edwards crawled into bed with extremist, socialist left-wingers and unwittingly found themselves in bed with Arafat, Osama, Saddam, and numerous other Anti-American public figures.

oh, so thats the fact of the matter

[mo]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Kerry just called to concede Ohio and the Presidency. Now all news agencies are reporting Bush has won!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_election_rdp

CNN has it up now.

[thunderous_funker]

Looks like the Guns, Gays and God strategy won the election again.

Anyone else notice how having the Gay Marriage Ammendment in 11 states fundamentally changed the turnout? Just look at the turnout in Ohio. The Gay marriage ban brought huge turnout of people who then voted for Bush.

Wedge politics work. Karl Rove is a genius.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by Busemann:
No matter what the outcome will be, a Massachusetts liberal that gets 50% at war-time is nevertheless impressive. Kerry did better than what I'd thought at least.

Not to mention a legislator.

[voodoo]

On the downside US voters have proven that they are as out of touch with reality as their president. Bush is exactly what you deserve

On the upside I just won myself a bottle of Johnnie Walker black label!

My condolences and respect to the wise and brave people who tried to vote the Chimp-in-Chief out of office. Too bad there wasn't enough of you that bothered to vote and decided to let other people handle the democracy for you.

With the following with you, you lost the election:

� The incumbent wasn't elected as much as appointed by his father's golf buddies.

� The incumbent has shown to be beyond inept at his job, doing bad things for the US like (but not limited to):

-- undermining relationship with allies
-- letting thousands of jobs go down the drain
-- went to war in Iraq for no benefit to the US
-- failed to 'hunt down' or even 'smoke out' Osama Bin Laden who was responsible for 9/11, resulting in the death of 3000+ US Americans
-- has vehemently opposed stem cell research to please heretical 'christians' that form the backbone of his support
-- has created one of the biggest deficits in recent history of the US
-- has sent misleading and inconsistent message to the US citizens about their safety from terrorism
-- has split the US nation in two in a time where the best thing would be to be united

� The incumbent has no discernible leadership abilities, charisma or ability to express himself in a confident and convincing manner.

I could go on.

A big F U to all the people who voted for Kerry just to vote against Bush. I mean that. John Kerry has integrity, bravery, a plan and a vision for American prosperity and future. And you didn't vote for that. What the F do you vote for THEN??

Congratulations to the rightwingers on this forum, even if they are in the minority here that is not the case in the US in general. Four more years - heck I don't understand how you pulled it off. Looking at the last four years Bush had every reason to be sacked by the voters. Except you are in a war. Oh yeah, slipped my mind.

Oh maybe because **newsflash** you AREN'T in a war. Forget it. If you didn't see it before you won't see it now and it sure as heck doesn't matter now. You got what you deserve all right. That's the great thing about democracy.

[Spliffdaddy]

lol. I feel your pain. No. Wait. I don't.

My side won. Yours lost. Move on and stop whining.

[vmpaul]

Went to bed last night and she was just warming up but as I woke up this morning it looks like the fat lady is indeed singing.

Kerry just conceded.

I'm obviously disappointed but life goes on. If I thought Bush really was going to govern with the interest of all America in mind then it wouldn't be so hard to swallow. That's the way I felt in 2000. Instead, like after 2000, I expect him cater to ultra-conservatives and take this country even further towards the extreme right wing.

Anyways, congrats to Bush and all his supporters here. It's a time to enjoy your victory and all the spoils that come with it. With the House and Senate victories, including the popular vote margin, it's clear he has a mandate going forward. There's no use denying it.

On to 2006....

[Logic]

What voodoo said.

[Cody Dawg]

This is just American politics.

The truth is that ALL Americans KNOW that either man was good for the job, period.

Americans will unite behind the president, not necessarily the man known as Bush, but the President of the United States. We always have and we always will.

As vmarks so eloquently said,

After 200 years, two centuries, she still stands strong and true on that granite ridge, and her glow has held steady no matter what storm. And she's still a beacon, still a magnet for all who must have freedom, for all the pilgrims from all the lost places who are hurtling through the darkness toward home.

to EVERYONE here, Democrats and Republicans alike.

Peace, friends!

[SouthPaW1227]

voodoo, you could attach those negatives to anyone at any given time with the right motives. It's not unusual for a human to err, and Kerry would've screwed things up to. No president would have been dramtically better than the other.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by voodoo:
O� The incumbent wasn't elected as much as appointed by his father's golf buddies.

I'm sorry but regardless of the perception of the legitamacy of the last 4 years, Bush did win this election, he did win the popular vote (by 3 million+), and it looks like he'll have taken the electoral by a decent margin. I don't think there can really be any question as to whether he earned this one.

[RAILhead]

Good on ya, Bush!



The American People have spoken, end of story. Thanks for playing.

Maury

[itai195]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
Of course Moore is just an example. The Democrat party needs to reject the entire far left spectrum of 'conspiracy kook' types, the 'blindly hating Bush beyond all reason and sanity crowd', the Dan Rather-media that fewer and fewer people trust, and not even give the faintest impression that such blatant dishonesty is anywhere near the 'mainstream' of their party.

I agree. I'd be a lot more comfortable with Republicans if they'd also reject the fringe portion of their party. I voted for McCain in the 2000 California primary (it was open) and I'd be glad to vote for someone like him in 2008 if he runs.

Boots, . I'm perfectly willing to be magnanimous in defeat and I'm hoping the country reunites... but it won't if people continue to spew such divisive propaganda. I'm glad to see most Republicans here are also magnanimous in victory, it's very nice to see!

[Logic]

Originally posted by SouthPaW1227:
voodoo, you could attach those negatives to anyone at any given time with the right motives. It's not unusual for a human to err, and Kerry would've screwed things up to. No president would have been dramtically better than the other.

I'm sorry but a meerkat would be dramatically better than Bush.


But I must say I'm somewhat happy with Bush's victory. At the rate he has been f'ing things up the American "Empire" will soon be a story told in the history books. Unfortunately it will cost pain and suffering from all involved(Muslims, ME, Americans, Coalition of the Coerced and Bribed the list goes on). But it's worth it.

Bring It On�

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Looks like the Guns, Gays and God strategy won the election again.

Anyone else notice how having the Gay Marriage Ammendment in 11 states fundamentally changed the turnout? Just look at the turnout in Ohio. The Gay marriage ban brought huge turnout of people who then voted for Bush.

Wedge politics work. Karl Rove is a genius.

I didn't know that there were that many gay marriage amendments across the nation. It seems that there's a large portion of this electorate who live their lives in fear. In fear of a bunch of guys with boxcutters, imaginary despots, and fellow Americans who only want to be treated equally.

Rove a genius? He's really only 1-1. you know.

[thunderous_funker]

This election was decided by the so-called "culture war" and not by anything else.

Cultural/Social conservatives and religous people turned out in massive numbers.

And it would seem that total apathy and lack of participation remain the halmark of the political left who would rather complain than vote.

Congratuations, America. You've earned it.

My predictions:

• direct challenge to Roe v. Wade in the next 4 years
• further dismantling of the social Safety Net
• privatization of Social Security
• Medicare/Medicaid being renamed "Pharma Subsidy Tax"
• horrific slashes to essential services across the nation (public transportion, emergency medicine, social services, affordable housing subsidy)
• massive increase in corporate welfare
• the further Walmartization of our economy as we continue to exchange high-paying union jobs for low-wage, no benefit McJobs.
• blood, violence and unstability in Iraq and Afghanistan for another 4 years
• another war somewhere else

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
Good on ya, Bush!



The American People have spoken, end of story. Thanks for playing.

Maury

Well you mean only slightly more than half of the ones that bothered to vote, but ok.

Let's just hope he makes good on all his promises (except the ones that are anti-personal freedom) in the next four years.

[Nicko]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
This election was decided by the so-called "culture war" and not by anything else.

Cultural/Social conservatives and religous people turned out in massive numbers.

And it would seem that total apathy and lack of participation remain the halmark of the political left who would rather complain than vote.

Congratuations, America. You've earned it.

My predictions:

• direct challenge to Roe v. Wade in the next 4 years
• further dismantling of the social Safety Net
• privatization of Social Security
• Medicare/Medicaid being renamed "Pharma Subsidy Tax"
• horrific slashes to essential services across the nation (public transportion, emergency medicine, social services, affordable housing subsidy)
• massive increase in corporate welfare
• the further Walmartization of our economy as we continue to exchange high-paying union jobs for low-wage, no benefit McJobs.
• blood, violence and unstability in Iraq and Afghanistan for another 4 years
• another war somewhere else

but but..... Bush has GOD on his side!

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn:
Well you mean only slightly more than half of the ones that bothered to vote, but ok.

You mean 3.7 million more than half? Oh yeah, that's not much, huh?



Oh yeah, and here are the obligatory pics:






Maury

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
This election was decided by the so-called "culture war" and not by anything else.

Interesting factoid (culled from Instapundit). Gays voted for Bush in the same percentage as in the 2000 election.

Perhaps the most surprising news for gay observers of the presidential election is that exit polls show President Bush received the exact same percentage of gay votes � 23 percent � as he did four years ago. This despite the president's vocal support for a federal constitutional amendment banning gay marraige.

Washington Blade

I think this rather undermines your excessively bitter conclusion. There were other issues on the voter's minds. National Security being the most obvious.

[ironknee]

god help us all