[vmarks]

journalist for 27 years, Tony Snow succumbed to colon cancer today at age 53.

[Atomic Rooster]

250,000 people die everyday.

[subego]

This is too bad for him, his family and his friends, but I can't state my opinion on what he did with the last years of his life because whenever someone brings up political figures and body fluids it gets edited out by a mod.



Not that I'm saying it shouldn't be.

Nor that I've ever seen an edit specifically in reference to Satan's body fluids.

[chris v]

I know he had a long and hard-fought battle with cancer -- It's an especially awful way to go, and I'm sorry for his suffering & glad he's now out of pain. It's one thing when someone dies peacefully in their sleep of old-age, or keels over of a heart attack, but cancer can be such a long, drawn-out struggle, and from what I can tell, he really stayed upbeat and positive through the whole ordeal, and tried to keep working as long as possible. I respect that.

[ironknee]

i wonder if tony's family and friends prayed for his recovery...

i guess it didn't work

[Ghoser777]

I don't remember such ugly comments when Russert died - let the guy have a funeral and rest in peace a little while, could you all?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777 

I don't remember such ugly comments when Russert died - let the guy have a funeral and rest in peace a little while, could you all?

Umm…he's dead. By definition he IS at peace. Snide, trollish, immature comments or not.

[Ghoser777]

Hence why I said "a little while".

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

i wonder if tony's family and friends prayed for his recovery...

i guess it didn't work

Classy!

[subego]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777 

I don't remember such ugly comments when Russert died

Maybe more people thought Russert was a stand-up guy.

I held my tongue when Snow was still alive, and (honestly) felt bad for his situation. I did my part.

[hyteckit]

RIP, the nine US soldiers who just died in Afghanistan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080713/...as/afghanistan

[besson3c]

It is interesting that we are far more interested in celebrity cancer deaths than we are with non-celebrity cancer deaths.

Just making a general point that is not related to Tony Snow.

[tie]

He was basically a bad person who worked against our country. But he always tried to be pleasant, even when he was trying to defend torturing innocent people. Not many people could have lied about torture so effectively, so I'm sorry he passed away.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by tie 

He was basically a bad person who worked against our country. But he always tried to be pleasant, even when he was trying to defend torturing innocent people. Not many people could have lied about torture so effectively, so I'm sorry he passed away.

I guess itll be perfectly acceptable that when you pass, to have random people saying these things in public to where your friends and family may hear?

I hope the people hearing of your death are at least a little bit more classy than you, and you won't be remembered as completely intolerable.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

I guess itll be perfectly acceptable that when you pass, to have random people saying these things in public to where your friends and family may hear?

I hope the people hearing of your death are at least a little bit more classy than you, and you won't be remembered as completely intolerable.

Well, you open yourself up for that when you become a celebrity/public figure, and a person is ultimately accountable by his deeds, but I think we can all maintain a little respect for the dead, especially someone who suffered bravely through a very protracted battle with cancer.


Unless it's Jesse Helms. Or Stalin. Just sayin'.

[@pplejaxkz]

No clue who he is, but R.I.P.

[tie]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

I guess itll be perfectly acceptable that when you pass, to have random people saying these things in public to where your friends and family may hear?

I hope the people hearing of your death are at least a little bit more classy than you, and you won't be remembered as completely intolerable.

The difference is that I am working to improve the world. I am not trying to subvert our country. I can look myself in the mirror and say, no, I am not having Afghani tribesmen sell their enemies to the US as "terrorists" so they can be tortured to death. I'm sure Osama Bin Laden is a real nice guy, too, but when he dies I won't be worried about showing him any class. Snow isn't on the same level as Bin Laden, he is more like a Ken Lay (led Enron to steal billions of dollars and caused rolling blackouts across California with Bush's blessing, then died before he could serve any time for his crimes). For this class of person, I don't worry about showing class. It's insulting to the many people who really do love our country and work to make it better.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by tie 

The difference is that I am working to improve the world. I am not trying to subvert our country. I can look myself in the mirror and say, no, I am not having Afghani tribesmen sell their enemies to the US as "terrorists" so they can be tortured to death. I'm sure Osama Bin Laden is a real nice guy, too, but when he dies I won't be worried about showing him any class. Snow isn't on the same level as Bin Laden, he is more like a Ken Lay (led Enron to steal billions of dollars and caused rolling blackouts across California with Bush's blessing, then died before he could serve any time for his crimes). For this class of person, I don't worry about showing class. It's insulting to the many people who really do love our country and work to make it better.

Spreading the word of progress begins with practicing what you preach. Celebrity or not, its sentiment such as yours that results in absolutely no progress being made when differing views are involved. I believe its far more insulting to those who work for our country to encourage snotty, pointless, and malicious behavior...regardless of who you're talking about. Its kinda the opposite direction we're trying to head.

There's a time and place to express your views on Mr. Snow. A thread/conversation about his lost battle with cancer is certainly not one of them.

[tie]

It is this "regardless of who you are talking about" that we disagree on. I guess you and I have differing views on whether it is good to torture innocent people, and on whether we should be firing US attorneys for prosecuting too many Republicans and not enough Democrats. Yes, I have no respect for your or Snow's views on these issues, any more than I respect Bin Laden's views on jihad.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by tie 

It is this "regardless of who you are talking about" that we disagree on. I guess you and I have differing views on whether it is good to torture innocent people, and on whether we should be firing US attorneys for prosecuting too many Republicans and not enough Democrats. Yes, I have no respect for your or Snow's views on these issues, any more than I respect Bin Laden's views on jihad.

please point to where i said I agreed with the man?
please show me where i said those are my views?
what does your behavior have to do with those issues you brought up?
please show me how anything in your post right there is relevant to my previous response?
Please show me how respecting views equates to respecting someone's RIP thread?

If you can't show class or the will to be productive to everybody, including those you hate or have wronged you...then the world is doomed to war and society doomed to fail....also it makes you look just as bad as the people you're trying to insult...especially if you're insulting them in their mourning thread.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by tie 

The difference is that I am working to improve the world. I am not trying to subvert our country.

No, you are doing what YOU believe is improving the world. What Tony was doing was no different; he believed he was working towards what was right.

Except apparently you're right, everyone else is wrong, and it's perfectly fine to make snide comments about the (very) recently deceased if they were a conservative. I think I understand the lesson.
Can't we be a bit more civil?

RIP, Tony. You fought cancer with loads of courage.

[besson3c]

Jawbone54: putting a positive spin on an administration no matter whether they were actually doing something that was commendable, and no matter whether you personally feel that what they are doing is commendable is something that should be applauded?

No Press Secretary for any administration is doing something that is truly bettering their country, they are just doing a slimy political job that may very well be a necessary evil, but spin, deception, and a sales pitch does not better a country, no matter what you are spinning, no matter how you feel about what it is you are trying to sell, and no matter what party you belong to, period.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Classy!

unless my calculations were wrong, please explain?

the mechanicals of prying is hard to understand... why do some prayers don't work, etc

/just saying

[tie]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

No, you are doing what YOU believe is improving the world. What Tony was doing was no different; he believed he was working towards what was right.

Do you know what he thought? Was he working towards what he felt was right, or was he working for the hope of striking it rich with a book (like the press secretary before him)? I don't know what he thought, I don't know what Ken Lay thought, I don't know what Osama Bin Laden thinks. It really doesn't matter. What matters is whether you are actually working towards what is right, or not.

Except apparently you're right, everyone else is wrong, and it's perfectly fine to make snide comments about the (very) recently deceased if they were a conservative. I think I understand the lesson.

This is a political forum. It is not the place to whitewash the record of bad people, and these are not "mourning threads." When Saddam Hussein died, Snow-i wrote, "What worthwile purpose would be served in letting him live? He had such a disregard for human life, I don't see why people would want to treat him differently then he treated his people." So much for respect for the very recently deceased. I'm sure Hussein thought he was working towards what was right, too.

[Snow-i]

Our discussion at that moment was on whether or not he should be executed for his crimes against humanity.

It wasn't an RIP Saddam Hussein thread.

Like i've been arguing. Time and Place for your views. This is not the place to **** talk a deceased countryman.

And are you seriously arguing that hussein thought he was working towards what was right? Perhaps you are right about Snow. But Snow was not a war criminal...and regardless of your conspiracy theories he was an American and was one of our countrymen.

The lesson is behave yourself. Otherwise you lose credibility with those that are able to control their urge to blab about what a piece of **** someone is.

[Snow-i]

"[Tony] showed us how to live life: with strength, determination, and with a brave and smiling face." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi

See? Even the Leader of your party knows how and when to speak. That was pulled from a remembrance article of Tony Snow pulled from CNN.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Our discussion at that moment was on whether or not he should be executed for his crimes against humanity.

It wasn't an RIP Saddam Hussein thread.

Like i've been arguing. Time and Place for your views. This is not the place to **** talk a deceased countryman.

And are you seriously arguing that hussein thought he was working towards what was right? Perhaps you are right about Snow. But Snow was not a war criminal...and regardless of your conspiracy theories he was an American and was one of our countrymen.

The lesson is behave yourself. Otherwise you lose credibility with those that are able to control their urge to blab about what a piece of **** someone is.

I don't think tie brought up Hussein because he intended direct comparisons between Snow and Hussein, but to make the point that there were many that thought that what Hussein did was "right" (notice the quotation marks). Our definition of "right" is a set of values we personally assign. It is perfectly legitimate to believe that Snow was not looking out for his country, and I believe that we should respect this opinion if these set of beliefs and be rationalized.

Also, right and wrong are not binaries. You can argue that whatever wrong that Snow did was "less wrong" than Hussein, but this is also subjective, as is the level of wrongness that would make one feel that that person's life was not worth celebrating.

[Face Ache]

He had nice hair and a good speaking voice. He was also very loyal to his political party and what they stand for.

Rest in peace Tony Snow, wherever you may be.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Rest in peace Tony Snow, wherever you may be.

I think he may be six feet under supplying nourishment to various slimy little creatures. The food chain and all that.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I don't think tie brought up Hussein because he intended direct comparisons between Snow and Hussein, but to make the point that there were many that thought that what Hussein did was "right" (notice the quotation marks). Our definition of "right" is a set of values we personally assign. It is perfectly legitimate to believe that Snow was not looking out for his country, and I believe that we should respect this opinion if these set of beliefs and be rationalized.

Also, right and wrong are not binaries. You can argue that whatever wrong that Snow did was "less wrong" than Hussein, but this is also subjective, as is the level of wrongness that would make one feel that that person's life was not worth celebrating.

True, all very true.

However in order to respect his opinion he must first respect that the man lost his life and voice his opinion in the proper manner. This is his remembrance thread. Not a debate for whether or not his views and actions were morally correct. And if you are going to voice your opinion...at least do it with some class....ex.

"You know i hated what he stood for but i'm sorry he lost his life"

Show some compassion and respect for the man and his family. Otherwise you (anyone) and your views will lack any respectability at all.

[besson3c]

Snow: so then at what point is it appropriate to not show that respect? Would it be appropriate for Hussein? Bin Laden?

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Snow: so then at what point is it appropriate to not show that respect? Would it be appropriate for Hussein? Bin Laden?

You must forgive the worst of the worst or your soul will be damned to HELL where you will made to suffer and burn and be tortured for eternity, forever and ever until the end of time, but, God loves you.

[hyteckit]

Is so sad that no one here cares about the fallen soldiers who died in Afghanistan. How come no one is paying respects to soldiers fighting for our security and freedom?

Yet, you guys pay respect to a guy who served as a mouthpiece to Pres. Bush, which lead to too much stress for Snow to handle. Stress and cancer are linked you know.

[tie]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Like i've been arguing. Time and Place for your views. This is not the place to **** talk a deceased countryman.

And are you seriously arguing that hussein thought he was working towards what was right? Perhaps you are right about Snow. But Snow was not a war criminal...and regardless of your conspiracy theories he was an American and was one of our countrymen.

We obviously disagree on this. I guess if I were an Iraqi, you wouldn't want me criticizing my countryman Saddam Hussein either. I think if someone sells out his country, like Snow or Hussein, then he doesn't deserve the respect of his countrymen. That's fine if you disagree, since that what political forums are all about. Iraqis can criticize Snow and Americans can criticize Saddam Hussein, but not the other way around---I think I can understand your logic even if I disagree. My own feeling is that it is disgusting to start a "remembrance thread" for a moral scumbag, and since this is a political forum, not a mourning forum, I feel perfectly fine saying that.

And to answer your question, I think it is just as likely that Hussein thought he was working towards what was right as it is that Snow did. (Since they were both smart people, I doubt that either believed it, but nobody can know.) Neither of them actually was working for the good of their countries, of course.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Is so sad that no one here cares about the fallen soldiers who died in Afghanistan.

Easy on the hyperbole, bud. I care a LOT about them. We should have had the Taliban mopped up by 2003, and a Marshal pan for Afghan recovery in place by 2004. We took out eye off the ball in a big way. Painting crumbling schools with a fresh coat of paint is not reconstruction. A national govt. that can't set foot outside of its capitol is as much of a sham as the puppets we installed in Saigon.

Afghanistan should be fixed, and pronto. We need 10X the effort there, and it should have been that way from sept. 12, 2001.

You've got to look at this through the lens of Celebrity. Pat Tillman certainly got plenty of press when he died in Afghanistan.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by chris v 

Easy on the hyperbole, bud. I care a LOT about them. We should have had the Taliban mopped up by 2003, and a Marshal pan for Afghan recovery in place by 2004. We took out eye off the ball in a big way. Painting crumbling schools with a fresh coat of paint is not reconstruction. A national govt. that can't set foot outside of its capitol is as much of a sham as the puppets we installed in Saigon.

Afghanistan should be fixed, and pronto. We need 10X the effort there, and it should have been that way from sept. 12, 2001.

You've got to look at this through the lens of Celebrity. Pat Tillman certainly got plenty of press when he died in Afghanistan.

Funny how you mention Pat Tillman. The government lied about how he died and try to use his death as a propaganda tool. Hid the truth about his death from Tillman's family.

Sad how the government and army treated the Tillman family. Sad how the US Army said Pat Tillman is "Worm Dirt" because he is an Atheist.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

True, all very true.

However in order to respect his opinion he must first respect that the man lost his life and voice his opinion in the proper manner. This is his remembrance thread.

That's not how this forum works though. People take whatever opportunity they can find to express their opposition and dislike of policies that surround the deceased figures.

For instance I in no way regret harping on Rosa Parks and the fact her body had no business being in the Capitol building. It was a disgrace to the memory of those who did deserve the honor and motivated by pathetic political correctness. They should have instead tossed her body someplace in Montgomery, her institute, or even the Apollo theater.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by tie 

We obviously disagree on this. I guess if I were an Iraqi, you wouldn't want me criticizing my countryman Saddam Hussein either. I think if someone sells out his country, like Snow or Hussein, then he doesn't deserve the respect of his countrymen. That's fine if you disagree, since that what political forums are all about. Iraqis can criticize Snow and Americans can criticize Saddam Hussein, but not the other way around---I think I can understand your logic even if I disagree. My own feeling is that it is disgusting to start a "remembrance thread" for a moral scumbag, and since this is a political forum, not a mourning forum, I feel perfectly fine saying that.

And to answer your question, I think it is just as likely that Hussein thought he was working towards what was right as it is that Snow did. (Since they were both smart people, I doubt that either believed it, but nobody can know.) Neither of them actually was working for the good of their countries, of course.

I'd probably join you.

But, i guess to me...its like going to someone's funeral and being like "what a piece of **** eh?" to everybody attending. Not the proper venue. Another thread debating his views or his politics would be a much better place to voice your dislike and/or your beliefs of his character. Its about universal respect that everyone should be entitled to. If its a thread about remembering or mourning someone's death, just leave it be.

I doubt anyone will make a "RIP bin laden" thread to remember him. IMO, in a thread like this...if you don't have any respect for him at all then just keep it to yourself, and let others pay their respects. If no one has any, then there won't be such a thread.

And even in politics, there needs to be some sort of social guidelines. As much as our politicians show quite the opposite, we as people should work together and be conscious of others. Its not about Snow, its about the people trying to mourn or remember him. You may feel disgusted by their urge to do so, but at the same time...you wouldn't want them to talk **** about someone you were mourning would you? Don't justify our politicians lack of respectable behavior by engaging in it yourself.

[Atomic Rooster]

I'm interested what the original poster thinks. He seems to have broken several rules with this thread.

No link. No thoughts or opinions to discuss.

And post and run.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

I'm interested what the original poster thinks. He seems to have broken several rules with this thread.

No link. No thoughts or opinions to discuss.

And post and run.

And this is a problem how? Lighten up... This place has enough people fussing over the rules as it is.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

And this is a problem how? Lighten up... This place has enough people fussing over the rules as it is.

Well mods should be an example to us grunts.

I'm lighting up right now.

Anyway it ends for me now. Continue on topic please besson.

[Big Mac]

Tony Snow seemed like a really great person, and he was wonderful as an anchor on Fox News. Cancer is an horrific such a scourge. Snow showed how to live with dignity and to carry on bravely in the face of such a terrible prognosis.

[Chongo]

Ian Anderson's take
Tony Snow: A Tribute

Some people ask me, usually vehement liberal Americans, how I could count amongst my few real friends, an arch-Republican spokesman for the Bush administration.

Well, Tony and I disagreed on most things political and came to robust verbal blows on the subject of climate change but that’s the charm of friendship. Life would indeed be a bore if all of your buddies agreed with everything you said and tap-danced to the same tired riff.

I like to think that Tony was a professional journalist and political commentator first and White House spokesman second. He could, I rather think, have filled the post of Press Secretary for an Obama or McCain administration with equal aplomb, dignity and bonhommie.

“An old-fashioned gentleman” is how my wife described him. Once, after Shona’s harassment by long-distance phone to his office in the White House, I asked Tony, “Did you ever get to meet Margaret Thatcher? “No, he replied. “Well, you just did,” I offered, to his great amusement.

With a family history of associated genetic risk, the long battle with colon cancer finally proved too much for even the ever-optimistic, ambitious T. Snow. His last email to me, less than three months before his death spoke of a planned family summer vacation in Italy, book deal, lecture tours and meeting up in August at our concert where I really wanted to get Tony up on stage at Wolftrap to have a flutey moment together, if only for one last time. Sadly, that will not now happen. But the memories of a good American, loyal to citizen and nation, will remain a treasure.

Tony badgered me for a couple of years to get a colonoscopy after my brother’s death from liver failure following his own colon cancer. I finally did just that and, although I never discussed the results with Tony, I am glad that I took his stern advice, not to put too fine a point on it. Good, solid advice to all middle-aged gents, especially where such cancer has been the unfortunately bountiful fruit of the family tree. Think on it, brothers. I shall renew my acquaintance with the one-eyed camera-snake later this year to check out that wondrous organ once again and will be thinking of the Snowman as I drift off into the land of nod, invitational buttocks gently parted. And, on waking, I will be all the better prepared for the outcome, whether good or not-so-good, having known and learned a little of life from Robert Anthony Snow. June 1, 1955 – July 12, 2008

[subego]

Originally Posted by Ian Anderson 

I like to think that Tony was a professional journalist and political commentator first and White House spokesman second. He could, I rather think, have filled the post of Press Secretary for an Obama or McCain administration with equal aplomb, dignity and bonhommie.

Sounds like he didn't dig what he did at the end much either, and sorta calls him two-faced to boot.

With friends like these...