[wolfen]

Wusses.

You've never lived until you've felt the warm squishy sound when you pull your hammer from some stranger's skull. Let's say he's a guy whose name you don't know -- just some guy that looks deserving of a shortcut to paradise. Yeah, and so for a few weeks you think of him as "Tom" or something. One day you figure the perfect plan for Tom and your favorite claw hammer to finally meet. Hell, you might as well inscribe "Tom" on the hammer. Fateful moments like this should be celebrated with all the frills.

So anyway, you know Tuesdays Tom comes home pretty late from bonking his girlfriend and so you hang out near his home. You show him your fancy hammer up close before dragging his lifeless body to the truck.

Sure...Tom could be a baby seal. Why not? Just imagine you're in Northern Canada. Same feel. The beauty is the story is equally inspiring with just about any land dwelling mammal.


Bring a heavy coat.


wolfen

[deedar]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I would argue that most people here have never been to a cattle ranch or a chicken farm.

Visit one of those, and you will think the baby seals get off easy.

And your point is? Why do some of you folks (not just you mitchell_pgh, I don't mean to be picking on you) use this argument to minimize the sentiments of those that happen to be disgusted by the seal killing? What exactly is the connection? If you aren't outraged by how animals are treated when they are farmed for human consumption then you are not allowed to be disgusted with killing seals? Is that it?

[nam_pog]

Cattle is killed by a bolt being shot into their head then retracted and they die instantly.
Horses are euthenized in the exact same way, as you may or may not know, it is humane to kill an older animal than to let it die a painful and slow death. There was a story in the news about a rancher in I think Wisconsin that had a herd of horses he let starve slowly... they are now being distributed to loving families and other rancher in an effort to save them.

I do joke at times, maybe a bit to roughly, but I have a love of Horses and all animals. Some are for eating, and some are not. I've owned several horses and they are magnificent, intelligent creatures. I would also note that we in the USA do not eat horses, but they do eat them in other parts of the world. "Belgium" for one.

There was a processing plant discovered in Illinois, in the news that burned down, and in the process of rebuilding the community 'discovered' it's existence. Strange, I know, but now that I know of it, it makes me a bit upset. The company was wholey owned by a Belgium corporation. I wonder what other "US" companies are doing such things for export?

Finally, how humane is it when a cheetah kills a zebra? etc. etc. We are animials that need to eat too.

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know I had to keep my mouth shut if my country of residence happens to also treat animals badly.

I can disagree with how animals are treated wherever they are.


Given that plane tickets from here to Iceland are really cheap right now, I'd watch it.

Shut up you....you..... muslim!!!!!!!!!

Yes, that is correct. You can disagree how ever much you want. I have no problem with that. But will your disagreement with how they are treated make you support banning these hunts all together, or will you rather try to work for more effective ways of hunting them?

[Logic]

Originally posted by deedar:
And your point is? Why do some of you folks (not just you mitchell_pgh, I don't mean to be picking on you) use this argument to minimize the sentiments of those that happen to be disgusted by the seal killing? What exactly is the connection? If you aren't outraged by how animals are treated when they are farmed for human consumption then you are not allowed to be disgusted with killing seals? Is that it?

What is it with this seal hunt that you don't like?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by wolfen:
Wusses.

You've never lived until you've felt the warm squishy sound when you pull your hammer from some stranger's skull. Let's say he's a guy whose name you don't know -- just some guy that looks deserving of a shortcut to paradise. Yeah, and so for a few weeks you think of him as "Tom" or something. One day you figure the perfect plan for Tom and your favorite claw hammer to finally meet. Hell, you might as well inscribe "Tom" on the hammer. Fateful moments like this should be celebrated with all the frills.

So anyway, you know Tuesdays Tom comes home pretty late from bonking his girlfriend and so you hang out near his home. You show him your fancy hammer up close before dragging his lifeless body to the truck.

Sure...Tom could be a baby seal. Why not? Just imagine you're in Northern Canada. Same feel. The beauty is the story is equally inspiring with just about any land dwelling mammal.


Bring a heavy coat.


wolfen

Oooooo!! You made my nipples hard!

[deedar]

Originally posted by Logic:
What is it with this seal hunt that you don't like?

Not my point. I don't really have a strong opinion either way, although on the surface it seems rather barbaric. My point was that when others stated they were against it, didn't like it, were disgusted, etc., people seemed to keep pointing out that there were other situations (such as conditions in which animals for slaughter were raised) that were worse, implying that because of that, cases made against the seal killing weren't valid. I was commenting on the apparent lack of logic.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Logic:
Shut up you....you..... muslim!!!!!!!!!

Reported.





Don't you have a bomb making class to attend, you terrorist?!

Originally posted by Logic:
But will your disagreement with how they are treated make you support banning these hunts all together, or will you rather try to work for more effective ways of hunting them?

Until someone can confince me of a decent reason as to why people should be allowed to hunt animals, I'll support banning them completely. Even if it means no Whales for Logic!

[Logic]

Originally posted by deedar:
Not my point. I don't really have a strong opinion either way, although on the surface it seems rather barbaric. My point was that when others stated they were against it, didn't like it, were disgusted, etc., people seemed to keep pointing out that there were other situations (such as conditions in which animals for slaughter were raised) that were worse, implying that because of that, cases made against the seal killing weren't valid. I was commenting on the apparent lack of logic.

Fair enough. But I can perhaps explain why that is. Living in this country I have been able to see what happens when people who are against it start acting against it. And it is the hypocrisy of it that irritates many of us. That people seem to be perfectly fine with eating pork or beef that have been treated in a disgusting way but at the same time they are willing to stop trading with countries that do something that they don't like, and by doing that hurting our economies. It is irritating and get frustrating to hear people say these things.

Hope I was clear enough, I'm a bit tired today.

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Reported.





Don't you have a bomb making class to attend, you terrorist?!

Tomorrow, not tonight. And don't tell anyone, you fool!!!

Until someone can confince me of a decent reason as to why people should be allowed to hunt animals, I'll support banning them completely. Even if it means no Whales for Logic!

ok. Lets give it a try.

We need to eat animals.

Certain cultures can't live without eating animals.

They taste good.

Rather hunt wild animals than slaughter animals that have been confined to a small "cell" all their life.

Excellent source of proteins.


I'll let that do for now

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Logic:
ok. Lets give it a try.

We need to eat animals.

Certain cultures can't live without eating animals.

They taste good.

Rather hunt wild animals than slaughter animals that have been confined to a small "cell" all their life.

Excellent source of proteins.

I'll let that do for now

Hmm, my problem is not with hunting animals for consumption - I'm OK with that as long as it is done humanely. I know circumstances vary, but if possible, I believe animals for consumption should always be killed 'the halal way'.

I'm referring to animal hunting in terms of it being a 'sport'. Over here there was great controversy when the government attempted to ban fox-hunting. It's such a barbaric 'sport' which, imo, has absolutely no point to it. It's just cruel, just like every other animal that is hunted merely for our 'entertainment'.

p.s forgot it was 2moro. Silly kitten!

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Hmm, my problem is not with hunting animals for consumption - I'm OK with that as long as it is done humanely. I know circumstances vary, but if possible, I believe animals for consumption should always be killed 'the halal way'.

I'm referring to animal hunting in terms of it being a 'sport'. Over here there was great controversy when the government attempted to ban fox-hunting. It's such a barbaric 'sport' which, imo, has absolutely no point to it. It's just cruel, just like every other animal that is hunted merely for our 'entertainment'.

p.s forgot it was 2moro. Silly kitten!

I agree with that completely. I've never been a fan of "game hunting" and similar things.

Will you come to the class 2moro?

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Logic:
I agree with that completely. I've never been a fan of "game hunting" and similar things.

Will you come to the class 2moro?

OH FFS! Will we ever disagree for more than 2 or 3 posts?! DAMMIT!

You crazy lunatic! Don't talk about those classes here!

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by typoon:
What I don't get is the people talking about the poor baby seals. What about the poor fisherman who can't put food on his table becuase these cute little animals are eating up all his fish? What I don't think are going to kill them to the point of extinction just control the heard like they do with dear.

Somone mentioned something about polar bear. I don't think they can eat that many of these to help with the control of the population.

Actually, polar bears are on the decline...

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
Actually, polar bears are on the decline...

That's correct, apparently there are fertility problems with female polar bears in the wild (saw it on Animal Planet). Biologists are currently working on a reason/solution.

Or maybe it's the male bears not doin' their bidness... maybe they need a little viagra added to their salt licks.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by Logic:
We need to eat animals.

False. People can live without eating animals. Many people already do.

Certain cultures can't live without eating animals.

True.

They taste good.

True. But this does not justify us in killing them. For all I know, people taste good. That doesn't mean I can kill people to eat them without being punished.

Rather hunt wild animals than slaughter animals that have been confined to a small "cell" all their life.

I agree somewhat. Problem is, lots of hunters don't kill cleanly with the first shot or whack to the head.

Excellent source of proteins.

True. But there are excellent non-animal sources of protein, as well.

The Newfoundland seal hunt is nothing more than a welfare program for rural Newfoundlanders who can't adapt to a changing world. They won't or can't learn a new skill. And they won't move from their towns. So the federal and provincial governments told them to kill seals and we'll do our best to revive the nearly dead market for seal fur.

It's a backward-thinking, short-term policy that will not help out the Newfoundland economy in the long run. They overfished the cod and screwed themselves.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
That's correct, apparently there are fertility problems with female polar bears in the wild (saw it on Animal Planet). Biologists are currently working on a reason/solution.

Or maybe it's the male bears not doin' their bidness... maybe they need a little viagra added to their salt licks.

...without counting the problem with the ice which is not as thick as it was. It is also not as extended anymore.

Although polar are excellent swimmers, they are facing the issue of the rising heat in the North. Hunting was also a cause of their receding numbers.

http://www.nunatsiaq.com/archives/31.../31114_06.html

Stirling was drawn to the Western Hudson Bay polar bears because these animals are unique to the Arctic. They fast for four to eight months, depending heavily on hunting during the sea ice season.

He found that, as a result of the reduction in sea ice in Hudson Bay over the past 20 years, the polar bears have less time to hunt and are returning to land in poorer condition. Bears are leaner, smaller and less able to find food to survive.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by rjenkinson:
137 species a day works out to 50,005 species a year. if 50,000 species a year become extinct because of the depletion of the rainforests, there are only 5 species in the world becoming extinct per year, for reasons not related to the rainforest. does this not sound odd?

That was 50,000 species for the rain forest alone, not including other habitats. I should have been a little more clear on that.

also, that list you posted is of 631 species which have become extinct... but over the past 400 years.

-r.

So? Doesn't that say something about human nature if for the past 400 years (well, at least as long as we've been keeping records) when humans have actively seek out the extinction of plants and animals?

[DBursey]

The Newfoundland seal hunt is nothing more than a welfare program for rural Newfoundlanders who can't adapt to a changing world

Most of the men who participate in this 300 year old hunt would rather die than accept welfare as such. The hunt is dangerous, challenging, and at upwards of $100 a pelt profitable to those who eke out a living in a seasonal economy.

'Adapting to a changing world' is exactly that in which they intend to assist their children by pursuing such arduous work.

Don't confuse these people with some blood thirsty hoard intent on barbarism. The killing of baby harp seals is illegal in Canada. The vast majority of animals, themselves more plentiful than Michigan landfill rats, are taken by rifle.

So the federal and provincial governments told them to kill seals and we'll do our best to revive the nearly dead market for seal fur.

Wrong again. There exists quite the thriving market for seal products. Rightly or wrongly, the free market is the driving force for this trade, not the government.

t's a backward-thinking, short-term policy that will not help out the Newfoundland economy in the long run ...

The Newfoundland seal hunt a short-term policy? It's on record as having occurred annually since 1723!

They overfished the cod and screwed themselves.

The inshore fishery was sustainably prosecuted for hundreds of years. Although it fueled entire communities, the inshore fishery was small-scale in comparison to the mechanized offshore trawler fleets that would spend the twentieth century's latter third scouring the grand banks in one-ship operations that would process more in a day than an entire outport town would in a month. Those trawlers were foreign, operating under (frequently exceeded) federal quotas. A generation of Newfoundlanders spoke out against the plunder of offshore resources, against competing political interests in Ottawa and elsewhere.

[Spliff]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DBursey:

Wrong again. There exists quite the thriving market for seal products. Rightly or wrongly, the free market is the driving force for this trade, not the government.

The federal government has actively promoted seal products abroad to revive the nearly dead market for seal products. They were very aggressive in pushing the "health" benefits of seal products in China.

The inshore fishery was sustainably prosecuted for hundreds of years. Although it fueled entire communities, the inshore fishery was small-scale in comparison to the mechanized offshore trawler fleets that would spend the twentieth century's latter third scouring the grand banks in one-ship operations that would process more in a day than an entire outport town would in a month. Those trawlers were foreign, operating under (frequently exceeded) federal quotas. A generation of Newfoundlanders spoke out against the plunder of offshore resources, against competing political interests in Ottawa and elsewhere.

It's always easy to blame foreigners. Newfoundlanders were happy to overfish for years. And the government allowed them to do that. Only when the cod practically vanished did they go after those damn foreign fishing trawlers.

It's a welfare program, plain and simple. Between 1995 and 2001, the sealing industry received over $20 million in subsidies, from the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, Human Resources Development Council, and Canada Economic Development-Quebec. Let's yank the subsidies and see if the market will sustain the hunt.

The seal hunt represents only about 1% of Newfoundland's GDP and it only offers part-time employment for a small group of people. Why should taxpayer's money support an antiquated industry that was nearly dead? Why revive it? If they're going to receive government subsidies, then the money should be put towards retraining these hunters with skills that would provide them with year-long employment. Any f**king moron can club a seal or shoot it in the head. And if they love killing for a living, then they can get a full-time job at a slaughterhouse.

[DBursey]

Do you really consider a $20 million subsidy to be welfare? Many industries wouldn't share that perspective.

As for 'blaming foreigners' ... well, if the glove fits. The offshore trawler fleets came from home ports in Spain, Portugal and Russia to name a few.

The seal hunt represents only about 1% of Newfoundland's GDP and it only offers part-time employment for a small group of people ... Any f**king moron can club a seal or shoot it in the head. And if they love killing for a living, then they can get a full-time job at a slaughterhouse.

I doubt any government wants to kill an industry which contributes a full 1% to GDP. Most of your f**king morons would end up getting themselves killed out on the ice floes. For that matter, how many f**king morons does it take to do your job?