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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Genetically modified salmon

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Genetically modified salmon
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el chupacabra
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Sep 24, 2010, 11:11 PM
 
The proposal is to make a really big salmon... well im against it. so many farmed salmon have already escaped and fudged up the genes of wild salmon already.

Super salmon or 'Frankenfish'? FDA to decide - Health - Food safety - msnbc.com
     
AKcrab
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Sep 25, 2010, 12:06 AM
 
I'm always shocked that someone thought it would be a good idea to farm Atlantic salmon in the Pacific.

We monitor all of our major salmon rivers for Atlantic salmon and they have indeed been spotted.

I foresee the day where all the salmon you eat will be farmed salmon, and probably genetically modified.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Sep 25, 2010, 12:33 AM
 
and this is why I support the buying of wild caught whenever I go shopping for fish!
     
smacintush
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Sep 25, 2010, 01:00 AM
 
I'd like to see some objective evidence that this is actually a bad idea. Haven't seen any yet, only gut feelings and scare mongering.
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Captain Obvious
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Sep 25, 2010, 09:07 AM
 
I'd like some administration to prioritize the FDA and USDA as the agencies they want grow out into bigger departments before tackling something random like a new Consumer Protection agency.

Half our food supply is genetically modified and not properly labeled to reflect that. 8 out of 10 Americans take some form of dietary supplement and those are regulated worse than normal food. Not to mention the fact that every other month we have some contaminated food recall.

No, I don't want mutant salmon sold at the corner store until the government can prove themselves effective at regulating and testing the foods already on the dinner table.
( Last edited by Captain Obvious; Sep 25, 2010 at 09:15 AM. )

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nonhuman
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Sep 26, 2010, 12:22 PM
 
I have no problem with this per se. However I think we should all be eating less meat (I include all animals in this category) across the board. If we did that there'd be no reason to do this at all.
     
Shaddim
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Sep 26, 2010, 10:30 PM
 
I need more solid information, not just knee-jerk reactions.
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brassplayersrock²
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Sep 26, 2010, 10:42 PM
 
But this is a thread about genetics. Of course a knee jerk or two is going to happen.

I’m still against this abomination though. Who knows if they’ve put in some kind of hidden gene that is known to cause cancer to grow quicker, and thus the drug companies will have more profits. /end tinfoil
     
imitchellg5
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Sep 26, 2010, 10:44 PM
 
Maybe it's just me, since while growing up in Seattle I'm used to eating fish that was killed the morning of the day I eat it for dinner, but I can always taste GMO salmon from just from the smell while it's cooking.

Alex, GMO salmon has actually been linked to increasing risks of cancer. Also, it disturbs me greatly that most GMO salmon are fed a mixture of CORN. How natural is that?
     
macaddict0001
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Sep 26, 2010, 10:52 PM
 
Salmon genetically modified to be larger would be unlikely to survive in the wild.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Sep 26, 2010, 11:04 PM
 
The GMS aren’t able to breed (sterile). Thing is though, what if they mutate in the wild, and are able to ? Say bye bye to the fish that evolution, years and years of it, made right. We, humans, really have no right to say “F you G-D; we can make better”

Which what gene modification really is.

The other side of that, is that scientists have been able to eradicate illnesses with very similar methods. Change a gene in (insert virus here), and now there’s a vaccine.

Which goes right back to what I said earlier. Who knows what else they’ve put in.

Hope this is clear.
     
macaddict0001
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Sep 26, 2010, 11:31 PM
 
The thing is, they're not better. Just less expensive. Fishing Salmon takes time and is therefore expensive.
Just remember all the grapes on the vine have the same DNA, So do identical twins. DNA plays an important but somewhat limited role in development. The genetically modified salmon aren't going to take over the world.
     
Sage
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Sep 26, 2010, 11:43 PM
 
Genetic engineering has saved billions of lives.

How “natural” something is doesn’t matter. If nature had its way we’d all die before age 25 because of stupid diseases.
     
Doofy
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Sep 26, 2010, 11:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sage View Post
Genetic engineering has saved billions of lives.
And now we have an overpopulation problem.

One shouldn't mess with complex systems until all variables are known.
     
olePigeon
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
We, humans, really have no right to say “F you G-D; we can make better”
Yeah, well, my invisible pink unicorn says we do have the right to say "F*ck you god."

So, f*ck you god. If you're too lazy to miracle us more fish, we'll do it ourselves.
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King Bob On The Cob
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
And now we have an overpopulation problem.

One shouldn't mess with complex systems until all variables are known.
Uhhhh... I hope this is a joke.
     
King Bob On The Cob
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
and this is why I support the buying of wild caught whenever I go shopping for fish!
Bad idea. We've already stressed our modern schools to their breaking point, especially for the large predator fish that humans like to eat. Better solution: Eat freshwater fish that's easy to farm, like panfish and trout.
     
jamillion
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sage View Post
Genetic engineering has saved billions of lives.

How “natural” something is doesn’t matter. If nature had its way we’d all die before age 25 because of stupid diseases.
And child obesity, early onset diabetes, and other early diseases are already killing people before age 25.

GM foods have only been around for 25 years or so anyway... how do we know if they're healthy for us long-term or not?

OTOH, we've been eating natural foods for millions of years, and apparently we're still here. Eating too many raw greens, rice, or nuts never killed anyone.
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Shaddim
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Sep 27, 2010, 01:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob View Post
Uhhhh... I hope this is a joke.
Actually, it isn't, and it is a point to consider.
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Sep 27, 2010, 06:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
We, humans, really have no right to say “F you G-D; we can make better”
I say that at least 3 times a week

Originally Posted by Sage View Post
Genetic engineering has saved billions of lives.
Irrelevant. Your statement seems to make the presumption that those lives saved was a good thing. I could easily argue they aren't. Actually, I believe that it wasn't in some cases.

The question is if there is valid concerns about these mutant salmon being bred in large quantities that amount to cause for the process to be held off. Unintended consequences like a scenario in which Asian Carp are now making their way up into Great Lakes raise enough of a question for me to say yes. If there are questions that consumption of these fish could lead to unknown side effects then we need to test it.

This ties in to your billions of third world lives saved. They should be our human test subjects for this and all sorts of things. Realistically, that would be the greatest contribution to humanity they are ever capable of making.

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voodoo
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Sep 27, 2010, 07:57 AM
 
(though not being in the US, I'm just going to approach this matter in a general way)

No, I don't see any point in allowing a growth-modified salmon being sold to consumers. An animal GM to create growth hormones all year round? Um, no thanks.

Shame on you biologists who participated in this dumb GM. You should have been using it on sharks, for later laser-implanting. Not salmon!
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andi*pandi
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Sep 27, 2010, 08:24 AM
 
Would the bigger fish taste the same? Dunno, I'm skeeved about this, and corn, and bees, and AAAAAGH!
     
SpaceMonkey
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Sep 27, 2010, 09:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
Shame on you biologists who participated in this dumb GM. You should have been using it on sharks, for later laser-implanting. Not salmon!
But are they ill-tempered?

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osiris
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Sep 27, 2010, 09:19 AM
 
I sure as hell won't eat this, but I'll pay top dollar for an adult elephant that fits in the palm of my hand. Come on science!
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Doofy
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Sep 27, 2010, 10:11 AM
 
I'd pay top dollar for dogs that know how to use a toilet (and thus don't crap on your lawn).
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2010, 10:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
We, humans, really have no right to say “F you G-D; we can make better”
Oh for ****s sake, another dash lover.

We humans shouldn't be flying either, because god didn't endow us with that ability either.

...and of course, this argument is even more nonsensical if there is no god.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Sep 27, 2010, 10:45 AM
 
Also: evolution!

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olePigeon
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Sep 27, 2010, 11:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh for ****s sake, another dash lover.
God may be omniscient, but he's horrible at word games. Censorship fools him every time. That's why word problems in math are so evil, because Satan made them.
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imitchellg5
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:08 PM
 
You all should watch the documentary Food, Inc.
     
imitchellg5
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Yeah, well, my invisible pink unicorn says we do have the right to say "F*ck you god."

So, f*ck you god. If you're too lazy to miracle us more fish, we'll do it ourselves.
Been there, done that.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Maybe it's just me, since while growing up in Seattle I'm used to eating fish that was killed the morning of the day I eat it for dinner, but I can always taste GMO salmon from just from the smell while it's cooking.
That's funny, since the article says this is the first ever GM animal (for consumption), and it hasn't been approved yet (and the company making it is in MA, not WA). Where did you get a chance to taste any GMO salmon? DIY?
     
SpaceMonkey
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:15 PM
 
He probably means farm-raised with hormone supplements.

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imitchellg5
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
That's funny, since the article says this is the first ever GM animal (for consumption), and it hasn't been approved yet (and the company making it is in MA, not WA). Where did you get a chance to taste any GMO salmon? DIY?
By definition, a GMO product is a product that has had any genetic material altered using genetic engineering. So maybe the label of GMO wasn't entirely correct, but it certainly isn't natural.
     
olePigeon
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
He also committed infanticide, adultery, and murdered millions of innocent people.

Blessed are the cheese makers.
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imitchellg5
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:38 PM
 
Hmm? Is the the Pol/War Lounge?
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Hmm? Is the the Pol/War Lounge?
It's not but the thread felt like one from the get go. Didn't even realize.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Sep 27, 2010, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
By definition, a GMO product is a product that has had any genetic material altered using genetic engineering. So maybe the label of GMO wasn't entirely correct, but it certainly isn't natural.
I'm going to go ahead and jump to the conclusion that your reaction as colored by you jumping to conclusions about "natural" "organic" foods tasting better.
     
imitchellg5
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Sep 27, 2010, 01:15 PM
 
They do. Go to the supermarket and buy off the shelf beef. Then buy from a hunk of local grown grass-fed (not just grass-finished) beef. You'll notice the difference immediately. I didn't think there would be a difference, but now that I buy my beef from Lasater ranch (local), I can't even stand regular off the shelf beef. It tastes totally bland. And maybe unrelated, and maybe not, I haven't gotten sick at all since buying local grass-fed. And it's actually not that much more expensive, but of course that helps when there are quite a bunch of local competitors here.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Sep 27, 2010, 01:18 PM
 
It makes perfect sense why an animal's diet (grass v. corn v. whatever) would cause it to taste differently. But that has nothing to do with whether or not the grass is organic, or the animal treated with hormones.

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imitchellg5
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Sep 27, 2010, 01:23 PM
 
Generally, or at least in the case of cows, they are given hormones because they can't digest the corn that they are fed, leading to lower milk production and issues with digestion. When I spoke to a rep from Lasater, they said that if your cows are fed off of grass their entire lives, there is no reason to give them hormones because they'll produce nearly the same amount of milk as a corn-fed hormone-infused cow. The side effect of this is that of course a grass-fed cow won't get as fat as a corn-fed, grass-finished cow, so it's less lucrative.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Sep 27, 2010, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Generally, or at least in the case of cows, they are given hormones because they can't digest the corn that they are fed, leading to lower milk production and issues with digestion. When I spoke to a rep from Lasater, they said that if your cows are fed off of grass their entire lives, there is no reason to give them hormones because they'll produce nearly the same amount of milk as a corn-fed hormone-infused cow. The side effect of this is that of course a grass-fed cow won't get as fat as a corn-fed, grass-finished cow, so it's less lucrative.
Right. It's tough to not conflate some issues in this kind of discussion, but my point is just that regardless of whether or not the use of hormones depends on the diet, the hormones themselves should not affect taste. The diet does.

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Sep 27, 2010, 03:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
a grass-fed cow won't get as fat as a corn-fed, grass-finished cow, so it's less lucrative.
Ok, this makes me think you're totally full of crap. No cows are corn-fed their whole lives, that would be too expensive. All there is is corn-finished (see here for example). It would be ludicrous to feed the cow corn for its lifetime and then switch to grass. They pay more for corn because it tastes better (to some), and that money is wasted except for the last ~6 weeks of the cow's life.

Honestly, how can you think that corn is cheaper than grass?
     
nonhuman
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Sep 27, 2010, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Honestly, how can you think that corn is cheaper than grass?
Massive government subsidies.
     
imitchellg5
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Sep 27, 2010, 04:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Ok, this makes me think you're totally full of crap. No cows are corn-fed their whole lives, that would be too expensive. All there is is corn-finished (see here for example). It would be ludicrous to feed the cow corn for its lifetime and then switch to grass. They pay more for corn because it tastes better (to some), and that money is wasted except for the last ~6 weeks of the cow's life.

Honestly, how can you think that corn is cheaper than grass?
Corn is about the cheapest substance in the US. The government will pay you about $48 to buy an acre's worth of corn seed. If you've seen a feed lot full of cows, you'll notice something. There is no grass to be seen. They're standing in mud and their own poop. Obviously, a cow isn't fed corn its entire life, as it would die. Most cows are generally fed a mixture of corn and grass and additives, and then the last 6 weeks of their lives are fattened up using exclusively corn. But it's still not the same as a cow that's been on grass for its entire life.
     
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Sep 27, 2010, 04:09 PM
 
Is it possible to leave religion out of lounge threads? I know some of you can't seem to help yourself, either for or against, so take a moment and read these words: Shut about it unless you're posting in the political lounge. If someone else mentions it, ignore it. Lounge posts that introduce religion, or discuss it for that matter, get infractions unless it's discussed in the proper forum.
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Sep 27, 2010, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Corn is about the cheapest substance in the US. The government will pay you about $48 to buy an acre's worth of corn seed.
But bringing it to harvest is still more

If you've seen a feed lot full of cows, you'll notice something. There is no grass to be seen. They're standing in mud and their own poop. Obviously, a cow isn't fed corn its entire life, as it would die. Most cows are generally fed a mixture of corn and grass and additives, and then the last 6 weeks of their lives are fattened up using exclusively corn. But it's still not the same as a cow that's been on grass for its entire life.
But the fact remains there is no "corn fed, grass finished."
     
imitchellg5
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Sep 27, 2010, 04:26 PM
 
The government pays for ALL of the costs and leaves the farmer with a profit. Believe me, there are people out in Nebraska growing corn that isn't worth anything to be resold, but they're doing it because the government will pay a heap load of money for people to grow it (many farmers make around $55k a year just growing corn).

Okay, now you're just picking nits and arguing with my agreement to your statement that I was in err.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2010, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Okay, now you're just picking nits and arguing with my agreement to your statement that I was in err.
Welcome to the political loun--oh shi–
     
imitchellg5
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Sep 27, 2010, 04:41 PM
 
Ha ha, so true.
     
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Sep 27, 2010, 05:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
But are they ill-tempered?
Ask Samuel L Jackson.
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