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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Consumer Hardware & Components > New KB and Mouse

New KB and Mouse
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anti-sleep
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:13 AM
 
It's official. Wahoo.
     
DVD Plaza
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:22 AM
 
Single button - they can shove that right up their
     
ZildjianKX
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:49 AM
 
Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
Single button - they can shove that right up their
I agree, what a waste. No scroll wheel, a single mouse button. This is a useless piece of trash. Any professional who might have considered buying it just lost interest.
     
Eriamjh
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:57 AM
 
Hmmm... Does anyone know if the keyboard has USB ports on it?
( Last edited by Eriamjh; Sep 16, 2003 at 01:10 PM. )

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as2
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Sep 16, 2003, 06:02 AM
 
Looks like I'll be sticking with my Microsoft Blue wireless mouse for a bit longer.

KB looks quite good though
[img=http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1300/desktj.jpg]
     
DVD Plaza
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Sep 16, 2003, 06:10 AM
 
You would think Apple would have the brains to do with their mouse what they've done with the ipod - creating something so cool that even Windows users will buy them.

Think about it - a refined version of this mouse with two buttons, perhaps a scroll wheel, and a ghosted or glowing Apple logo. Compare that to the absolutely ugly bluetooth mice (all two of them!) that are currently out there.

Instead not only do they waste such an opportunity, but there are plenty of us that won't be buying this mouse.

Surely at the end of the day they realise we aren't stupid enough to need babying with a single button (and that many of us have bought our own two button mice to avoid smashing our computer in frustration), and that they could make a lot of money from flushing their stubbornness.
     
subego
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Sep 16, 2003, 06:14 AM
 
Originally posted by ZildjianKX:
Any professional who might have considered buying it just lost interest.
Hmm. I just bought one.

     
ZildjianKX
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Sep 16, 2003, 06:49 AM
 
Originally posted by subego:
Hmm. I just bought one.

Professional of what?
     
WJMoore
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:09 AM
 
Originally posted by as2:
Looks like I'll be sticking with my Microsoft Blue wireless mouse for a bit longer.

KB looks quite good though
My thoughts exactly.
     
as2
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:16 AM
 
I'm tempted by the keyboard.. I use bluetooth already to sync my T610, and the keys on my current keyboard are starting to pack up (it is 4 years old! and very well used).

Only problem is, I cant get on the UK apple store to find out how much it is, or to order one.
[img=http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1300/desktj.jpg]
     
ruttopia
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:18 AM
 
What kind of battery life can we expect with the wireless keyboard? Don't see a mention of it on Apple's site - but it could just be because it's 7am and I haven't had any coffee yet ...
     
ruttopia
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:21 AM
 
Okay, the press release says it - uh yeah. Up to 9 months of usage on 4 AA's ... now I wonder what that REALLY means? I'd like to know hours per day usage. Are they talking 8 hours a day, 5 days a week or 1 hour a night after work or ...

Oh well, still nice looking...
     
DigitalEl
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:24 AM
 
Pure male ego has to be the reason why Apple still insists on the one-button mouse. Yes, there are countless reasons newbies can benefit from the alleged simplicity of the single-button device, but selling a G5 with a one button... Or a wireless Bluetooth single button mouse... Just ridiculous. Okay Steve, you win. I'll buy a mouse from someone else!
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daniel999
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:25 AM
 
grr..... still one button.........
does apple know how to make a mouse with 2 buttons??
Got a 12" Powerbook ^__^
     
Link
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:36 AM
 
Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
Single button - they can shove that right up their
I think that's the whole purpose. It looks like a preperation H suppository.

Tommorow when i get up I'm gonna hit photoshop and slap a Peperation H logo on that sucka!
Aloha
     
videian28
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:57 AM
 
2 things

not rechargable..either of them strike one

and ONE button? strike 2/3/4/5/6/7....wtf?

c'mon, thats just asinine

when are they gonna learn?

thats called shooting yourself in the foot....repeatedly

just foolish
     
dfiler
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Sep 16, 2003, 08:29 AM
 
I still agree with shipping single-button mice as standard. A search of these fora should turn up pages of how I justify this policy. Sorry, don't have time to repost it every time this comes up... but don't want the multi-button proponents to think their view is unanimous.

As for wireless peripherals, they are pure gimmick for nearly all deskbound computer users. Sure, they're neat and I want one. Yet, batteries, reception, and other issues make them less convenient than their wired counterparts. The wire is simply less trouble than the hassles which accompany battery powered electronic devices. My desk lamp could be battery powered too, but what would be the point other than to look cool?
     
cwasko
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Sep 16, 2003, 09:07 AM
 
Originally posted by dfiler:
I still agree with shipping single-button mice as standard. A search of these fora should turn up pages of how I justify this policy. Sorry, don't have time to repost it every time this comes up... but don't want the multi-button proponents to think their view is unanimous.
I'm not going to search the forums, but considering this is an *after-market* product and does *NOT* come with any Mac... there is absolutely no reason what-so-ever that it should be one button. I haven't seen one BT mouse yet that I like or is 100% compatible with the Mac. I was hoping that Apple was going to dish it out now. I think it is degrading that Apple refuses to make a mouse that an obvious, substantial part of the customer base wants.


Originally posted by dfiler:
As for wireless peripherals, they are pure gimmick for nearly all deskbound computer users. Sure, they're neat and I want one. Yet, batteries, reception, and other issues make them less convenient than their wired counterparts. The wire is simply less trouble than the hassles which accompany battery powered electronic devices. My desk lamp could be battery powered too, but what would be the point other than to look cool?
Maybe its the people with the PowerBooks with built-in BT that want these types of things... And, now that the entire PowerBook like has BT, I'd imagine the desire to have these types of devices is going to increase.
     
GORDYmac
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Sep 16, 2003, 09:21 AM
 
I won't buy them for a couple of reasons, but they should sell well. They're cute enough.
     
-Q-
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Sep 16, 2003, 10:36 AM
 
Originally posted by cwasko:
I'm not going to search the forums, but considering this is an *after-market* product and does *NOT* come with any Mac... there is absolutely no reason what-so-ever that it should be one button. I haven't seen one BT mouse yet that I like or is 100% compatible with the Mac. I was hoping that Apple was going to dish it out now. I think it is degrading that Apple refuses to make a mouse that an obvious, substantial part of the customer base wants.
I definitely agree that an aftermarket mouse should have two buttons (or here's a comprimise Steve, why not make TWO mice??? One single-button to stick your vision of 'one-button is better' and a two-button with scroll for those of us who use have been using computers for awhile).

However, I disagree that a substantial part of the customer base wants this. Every time my company does market research sessions, the right button is still confusing to newer computer users. I can see why it's still important in terms of usability. But I think they're definitely losing money by not offering one.
     
Sophie
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Sep 16, 2003, 11:09 AM
 
Originally posted by -Q-:
Every time my company does market research sessions, the right button is still confusing to newer computer users.
Hi, can you mention what demography was used in the research? It would be fun to know if this confusion is layered to a age group for instance. I can only attest to myself, friends and family and we have never had a problem understanding and using a mouse be it one button or multibutton. The fact is all you have to do is try and click the mysterious button. We are in a computer age when among our childrens first toys are a computer and a cellphone so it's a bit confusing that these results come out in the research, then again we are all different. It's for instance kids that use SMS the most and writing with those keys are not the easiest so an extra button should be easy.
( Last edited by Sophie; Sep 16, 2003 at 11:32 AM. )
     
southtdi
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Sep 16, 2003, 11:20 AM
 
Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
You would think Apple would have the brains to do with their mouse what they've done with the ipod - creating something so cool that even Windows users will buy them.

Think about it - a refined version of this mouse with two buttons, perhaps a scroll wheel, and a ghosted or glowing Apple logo. Compare that to the absolutely ugly bluetooth mice (all two of them!) that are currently out there.
Now this is a good idea. I would like to add the one ultra cool, and useful, feature that would truly make it a must have. Kenetic recharging of the battery. That way you never have to change the battery and it will always run once you wiggle it a second.

Glowing apple logo and cool looking white with two buttons would be a great moouse and truly wanted by the windows users.
     
Zoom
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Sep 16, 2003, 11:23 AM
 
I agree with most of the people here. I was hoping fervently that this would be the dawn of a new Apple mouse, that finally Jobs would realize that a one-button Pro mouse is an oxymoron. Pros have no use for this. Even the Apple OS has contextual menus, which cry for a second button. Do they really believe it's easier or more intuitive to hit a meta key on the keyboard while clicking a mouse button to access these menus? That's just nuts.

And as for people not understanding a second button, I have a VERY hard time believing that. How long have home Windoze boxes had two-button mice? Are these studies showing that people never use this second button, even if they know what it does?

Even if that were the case, then those idiots would simply not use the second button while the rest of us super geniuses will be more productive.

And a scroll wheel is essential to me, though I could see where this might take an average, non-techie person a short while to get used to.

I'm just ... speechless to explain this. What the hell are they smoking?

So, what are the other options? Can someone provide a link to the Microsoft bluetooth keyboard? And who makes the other one, Logitech? (Will they work with Apple's new control panel?)

I have to agree that it's not really practical to have these on a desktop system, unless you have a wacky desk setup. (Though when Apple's keyboard used to have a 3-foot cord, it would make sense. That was another idiotic oversight.) But it is cool, and Apple is all about being cool. I could dig having one just to remove some cable clutter, but I can't see spending $140 to do it. That's crazy.

I want a Bluetooth printer, mouse, keyboard and speakers. Oh, and a Bluetooth iPod (strictly for iSync stuff, not songs). And a BT digital camera. I'm sick of cables. Hate them. I'm ready for wireless. Bring it on.
     
Zoom
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Sep 16, 2003, 11:27 AM
 
Originally posted by southtdi:
Now this is a good idea. I would like to add the one ultra cool, and useful, feature that would truly make it a must have. Kenetic recharging of the battery. That way you never have to change the battery and it will always run once you wiggle it a second.

Glowing apple logo and cool looking white with two buttons would be a great moouse and truly wanted by the windows users.
I agree. Apple is innovative and they have the ergo engineers and style engineers to pull off a truly beautiful, sexy, ergonomic, and supremely functional two-button scroll wheel optical Bluetooth mouse. And yes, the kinetic thing would push it right over the top and give it that extra special something that Apple is usually known for.

But this?? Come on, guys.
     
Ken Masters
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Sep 16, 2003, 11:29 AM
 
originally posted my "well ME"
STUPID, STUPID, STUPID


MOUSE!!!!!



Im sure it will be much simpler? WHY the hell would you want a wireless mouse, when everytime you need a alternative menu,

You'll need to press a key on the keyboard!!! Wouldn't that deminish the reason for being wireless.

Stupid, just STUPID

When are the people at APPLE going to GROW UP and use a REAL MOUSE.

Here's a good idea, why not make a keyboard with half the amount of keys, and let the CPU predict what word is correct? Like smart SMS???

"don't give me the third party crap"

Why not just get a third party monitor,
(that uses the ADB port)
third party keyboard,

third party mouse,

Third party software,

Third part CD/DVD/CDWR,
(that will work with iTunes, iDVD etc.)

Third party SOund card,
(instead of intergrated one)
Third Party Graphics card,
(i think ati cards/nvidia are done by apple)
Third party every!!!

If that is the case, then apple should just give us the option of buying the tower with only the CPU and give us the option of all the equipement form the manufacturer of choice.

But the fact is, its not possible, so if they are going to sell us a Comp, get it right.

"yes errors,"
     
zubro
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Sep 16, 2003, 12:29 PM
 
Ken, what about a third party brain! ;o)

If you dont like it, dont buy it, and be a grownup, use a Wacom!
     
subego
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Sep 16, 2003, 12:41 PM
 
Originally posted by ZildjianKX:
Professional of what?
Film & Video.
     
TimmyDee51
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Sep 16, 2003, 12:45 PM
 
And the thing that really bugs me is the keyboard. It's the same damn thing as the crappy eMac keyboard. I want something better than that $3 design. Turns out the last Apple keyboard I will own is the black Pro model that came with my MDD 867.
     
osxisfun
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Sep 16, 2003, 12:50 PM
 
There is a a rumor that congress is going to pass a law that will allow mac people to buy third party mice with multiple buttons.


oh wait....

You can do that today...
     
osxisfun
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Sep 16, 2003, 12:52 PM
 
ut the last Apple keyboard I will own is the black Pro model that came with my MDD 867



its all a matter of taste. i own the dual 867 and bought the white keyboard as soon as it came out since i did not like the feel of the black...
     
Eriamjh
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Sep 16, 2003, 01:14 PM
 
Hmmm. If you have two bottons on your mouse and you don't know how to use the right-button, you don't use it, but you COULD.

If you have a single button mouse, and you know how to you the right-button, you CAN'T!

So why not at least offer the option to those who want it?

You can argue all you want about the single-button mouse, but if someone NEEDS or just plain WANTS a second button, he has to go third-party.

Oh well.. say la vee.

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goose
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Sep 16, 2003, 01:40 PM
 
Yeah, the single mouse button kinda bugs me, but not as much as the single button philosophy Apple has. I can always buy a third party mouse with multiple buttons (which I have done), but all their laptops are stuck with one button. That's the real kicker for me, if I want to have multiple buttons, I have to get an external device, but then I'll have to deal with cables, unless it's a BlueTooth device, but the Apple BT mouse has only one button. Aargh!

There's never enough when you have too little
     
mindwaves
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Sep 16, 2003, 02:19 PM
 
I think Apple may do something here...

The Apple Pro Mouse has been named the Apple Mouse lately so MAYBE there will be a NEW PRO MOUSE later on with "professional" features (e.g. scrollwheel, 2 buttons, etc).
     
Seamus
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Sep 16, 2003, 02:27 PM
 
You know, to the people here suggesting that more than one button is "confusing" for new users, I urge you to find ONE single-button PC mouse. 95% of all computers out there...if not more...have at LEAST two buttons.

Anyone who says that a considerable number of Mac users prefer one-button mice are pulling that figure right out of their ass. Show me ONE study that points in this direction. It's obvious that there's overwhelming demand for multi-button mice.

Think about it: If Microsoft shipped the X-box with a controller that had a single button and a single control stick, and offered nothing but a third-party alternative, that would SEVERELY turn you off to the system. I mean hell, the system is basically crippled. I do believe that Microsoft would be tarred and feathered for such an action. But we put up with it from Apple because it's their lame "tradition." It sucks.
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subego
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Sep 16, 2003, 03:00 PM
 
Originally posted by Seamus:
Think about it: If Microsoft shipped the X-box with a controller that had a single button...
Apparently Apple has chopped off your keyboard hand.

Sure, Apple should offer a variety of mice, but your analogy is ridiculous.
     
SplijinX
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Sep 16, 2003, 03:06 PM
 
I hope a new "pro" mouse is headed our way soon and give us veteran users the control we need.
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Seamus
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Sep 16, 2003, 03:25 PM
 
Originally posted by subego:
Apparently Apple has chopped off your keyboard hand.

Sure, Apple should offer a variety of mice, but your analogy is ridiculous.
As it was intended to be.
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videian28
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Sep 16, 2003, 03:27 PM
 
apple pro mouse

$200

with 2 buttons (scroller optional for an extra $50)
     
motti
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Sep 16, 2003, 03:44 PM
 
Is this a sequel to "dumb & dumberer" ?
Mouse - scroll wheel - 2 buttons = totally useless to me!
     
Zoom
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:08 PM
 
Originally posted by mindwaves:
I think Apple may do something here...

The Apple Pro Mouse has been named the Apple Mouse lately so MAYBE there will be a NEW PRO MOUSE later on with "professional" features (e.g. scrollwheel, 2 buttons, etc).
That would be nice. I can certainly understand why Apple would produce two types of mice. The eMac and iMac would ship with the one-button mouse and have the 2-button scroll mouse as a BTO option (for a ridiculous price, I'm sure). The PowerMacs would ship with the Pro mouse.

I'd say this is possible. I just hope it's true, and I hope we find out soon. I'm more than ready for a new mouse and keyboard at home (I still have the rinky-dink keyboard that came with my G4/400), and I was waiting for the rumored two-button scroll mouse. I thought this was going to be it. Ah, well. Guess I'll just get a third party K&B.
     
zachs
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:24 PM
 
I was hoping to be able to ditch my 3rd-party Logitech mouse. I guess that isn't happening. Why is it that Apple feels the need to design their mice around a very small, select few? At least make two mice, so there's an option.

The keyboard is terrible...I want the old white-on-black keyboard with wireless capabilites. I hate the sharp edges of eMac-style keyboard.

Grrr...
     
Uday
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:31 PM
 
I have just sat through interviews where the candiates had to do a presentation. It was on a PC laptop with powerpoint and they had a two button mouse. The number of times they pressed the wrong button was amazing considering that these people used PC's all the time.

I for one am glad that Apple have stuck to a single button mouse. I know how to use two hands and have no trouble pressing the Ctrl button at the same time as the mouse button. I would have given anything to avoid what I had to sit through today.

I think some of you should try and deal with real everyday people trying to use PC computers. It is soooooo painful
     
parsec_kadets
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:38 PM
 
Don't know how many have seen this yet, but MacosRumors.com says the following: "Although we haven't seen it in this first version, know that with very nearly 100% certainty.....two-button mice with a scroll wheel-like third button are on their way. Count on it."

Now MOSR doesn't have the greatest track record, but they rarely take such a firm position. However, they fail to give any kind of timeline. Apple could take two weeks or two years and MOSR would still be right. Anyone want some salt?
     
hardcat1970
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:41 PM
 
i can live with the one button mouse that come with the system. However, with the sticker price at $69, no scrollwheel and only one button. No thanks!

also, the white color doesn't match their pro products. i understand that by making one color across the line, it will save production cost, but..
     
zachs
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Sep 16, 2003, 05:41 PM
 
Originally posted by parsec_kadets:
Don't know how many have seen this yet, but MacosRumors.com says the following: "Although we haven't seen it in this first version, know that with very nearly 100% certainty.....two-button mice with a scroll wheel-like third button are on their way. Count on it."

Now MOSR doesn't have the greatest track record, but they rarely take such a firm position. However, they fail to give any kind of timeline. Apple could take two weeks or two years and MOSR would still be right. Anyone want some salt?
We'll see them when Steve-O jumps ship.
Until then, I'm not getting my hopes up.
     
Suspiciousguy
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:08 PM
 
This is a little off topic as far as bitching about how many buttons on the new mouse. However, I called Apple to ask if I was going to be getting a wireless mouse and keyboard with my 2.0DP (that hasn�t shipped yet) and was politely but firmly told that I would not. I then asked to upgrade and offered to pay the difference. That was declined as impossible due to the fact that mouse and keyboard comes packed with the computer. I asked to speak to a manager and was put on hold for five minutes. When the lady came back she told me that they NEVER do this, HOWEVER they would add a wireless keyboard and mouse to my order for no charge, THIS ONE TIME ONLY. I was very surprised. I thanked them and immediately typed this message up. My advice� if you have a G5 on the way, and you want one of the new KB/Mice, go complain and see what happens. BTW, I never raised my voice, but I did point out that I had ordered the top of the line machine and didn�t understand why I wasn�t able to upgrade to the top of the line accessories? hard to believe. I think they may be taking some heat over there�
     
jfischetti
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:27 PM
 
now that the technology is built into OS X -- HOPEFULLY Kensington, Belkin, or even Microsoft will build or optimize to sell their own.
"....and the capital of Nebraska is Lincoln!"

     
DVD Plaza
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Sep 16, 2003, 07:57 PM
 
Amazes me that some people believe the 95% of two-button Windows users, and 5% of single-button Mac users, should all use single-button mice just because of a handful of morons that can't handle two buttons.

I guess we should all walk to work - it's the fairest way to handle the handful of people that can't drive.
     
mini-pbook
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Sep 16, 2003, 10:27 PM
 
I am disappointed like most people with their only being 1 button, but I have a question. Currently with my 12" Pbook (I'm assuming the 15" and 17" as well), if you connect a usb mouse and usb keyboard, you can operate with the lid closed and connected to an external monitor only. Does anyone know if using the apple bluetooth keyboard and mouse would do the same thing? I may consider these if so, since I don't have much room on my desk, and if I could hide my pbook on the floor connected to my monitor it would free up some much needed room on my desk. Otherwise, I think $140 for the two is pretty darn expensive.
     
theolein
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: zurich, switzerland
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Sep 16, 2003, 10:50 PM
 
Perhaps, if enough unhappy one buttoners were to click here...
weird wabbit
     
 
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