[leperkuhn]

How many of you are in the same boat as me? I do not like the hardware. I don't meant the g5 necessarily, but the whole package.

For starters, putting in a new dvd burner into my g4 tower has been a huge pain.

Issue #1: Space allocated to the tray is not big enough. The drive can't eject. In either the upper or lower area. Remove drive, take off plastic front. It fits now.

Issue #2: in the process of removing the drives, i forgot to put on the protective plate on the ATA ribbon. Huge heatsink sliced it open when i closed the case, ruining the cable. Maybe not the fault of the design, but irritating and lead to #3.

Issue #3: went out to look for a > 2 foot ATA/133 ribbon. No luck at Best buy or staples, but i found one of the new kinds that is more of a wire than a ribbon. sounds great but once again, the heatsink screws me. It presses against the wire, disconnecting it from the drive.

This is stupid. Now I have 0 working DVD drives when I should have 2. Granted, if i had remembered to put the cover back on I'd be fine, but why is this such a pain in the first place?

Love the OS, i could care less about the hardware. /rant

[Lateralus]

If you're having this much trouble installing an optical drive, you should probably get a notebook.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by Lateralus:
If you're having this much trouble installing an optical drive, you should probably get a notebook.

I have one already. Doesn't have a DVD burner. I was upgrading to a 16x DVD-R on the tower. I've done hardware upgrades before, not very hard. This is just an instance of the hardware being inflexible and a pain in my ass.

[deboerjo]

I agree in principle (Apple hardware sucks) but I'm trying to figure out how you could have sliced a ribbon cable in a G4 tower, can't say I've ever had that problem. The G4 towers were the pinnacle of Apple hardware design. Easy-open, brilliant case layout that packs a great deal of hardware into a very small case while keeping all cables neatly tucked aside. Very well-designed cooling that achieves comprehensive cooling with only two fans. Lotsa PCI slots (64-bit no less). The G4s rock, especially the original case.

I just don't like the rest of Apple's hardware. I don't like the G5 because it has half the drive bays of a G4 despite the monsterous size and weight. And I don't like the fact that Apple's product line is missing a low-cost expandable tower. They really should have a G5 minitower or SFF cube in the $999-$1399 pricerange. I hate how difficult and expensive it is to add upgrades to just about any Mac, especially the iMac/eMac family and the G5.

Oh, how I long for the days of the clones....

[tooki]

I do disagree.

The hardware is very well designed, and it ships with components that mesh perfectly. Aftermarket components usually require little or no modification. Snapping the bezel off an optical drive tray really isn't that big a deal, and you also ignore that many PCs require the same treatment!

As for the cable... well, just as in any PC (which tends to have more sharp edges anyway), you have to watch out for cables, that's just normal procedure when dealing with electronics. With respect to needing a long one... it's a custom cable fitted to that case, so yeah, getting an exact replacement might be tough. But I've seen 3' ATA cables (which, by the way, are actually out-of-spec) in lots of retail stores, they're really not hard to find!

tooki

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
I agree in principle (Apple hardware sucks) but I'm trying to figure out how you could have sliced a ribbon cable in a G4 tower, can't say I've ever had that problem. The G4 towers were the pinnacle of Apple hardware design. Easy-open, brilliant case layout that packs a great deal of hardware into a very small case while keeping all cables neatly tucked aside. Very well-designed cooling that achieves comprehensive cooling with only two fans. Lotsa PCI slots (64-bit no less). The G4s rock, especially the original case.

I just don't like the rest of Apple's hardware. I don't like the G5 because it has half the drive bays of a G4 despite the monsterous size and weight. And I don't like the fact that Apple's product line is missing a low-cost expandable tower. They really should have a G5 minitower or SFF cube in the $999-$1399 pricerange. I hate how difficult and expensive it is to add upgrades to just about any Mac, especially the iMac/eMac family and the G5.

Oh, how I long for the days of the clones....

lets not forget about graphics cards.

[jcadam]

I sliced an ATA ribbon cable while installing a 2nd Optical drive in my MDD. SInce replacements are time-consuming and expensive to acquire, I used a standard PC ATA/100 cable I had lying around. Managed to fandangle that sucker in there somehow. It ain't at all pretty, though.

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by jcadam:
I sliced an ATA ribbon cable while installing a 2nd Optical drive in my MDD. SInce replacements are time-consuming and expensive to acquire, I used a standard PC ATA/100 cable I had lying around. Managed to fandangle that sucker in there somehow. It ain't at all pretty, though.

Ah, MDDs I haven't worked with much, their innards are a little different layout than the Quicksilvers and original G4s I know and love. I guess I can see how that could happen. That still has a lot more to do with carelessness than hardware design though. The MDD is still a very elegant arrangement.

[CatOne]

So you fat finger the install and blame Apple?

The stuff is designed pretty tightly and cleanly... you never see wires running all roughshod in Apple hardware. Which means if you don't pay attention before doing your work, and let a ribbon cable hang loose, you could have issues. I'd recommend you play close attention before doing work.

If you pull the engine on a car and end up a couple mounting bolts short and you get bad torque steer, do you blame BMW? I wouldn't; I'd blame the mechanic. Same goes here.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by CatOne:
So you fat finger the install and blame Apple?

The stuff is designed pretty tightly and cleanly... you never see wires running all roughshod in Apple hardware. Which means if you don't pay attention before doing your work, and let a ribbon cable hang loose, you could have issues. I'd recommend you play close attention before doing work.

If you pull the engine on a car and end up a couple mounting bolts short and you get bad torque steer, do you blame BMW? I wouldn't; I'd blame the mechanic. Same goes here.

Except the design is done in such a way that it's a huge pain to do anything that requires moving cables around. Say the ATA cord goes bad on it's own. Replacing it isn't easy, and I've finally managed to get a semi working solution... I say semi because...

Now the DVD drive keeps ejecting. I hit f12, it goes in, then pops out. Same if i push it in. Not sure if this is an os issue or a hardware issue.

My bitterness is not based solely on this incident, rather it left me feeling quite pissed off and thought i'd check to see if anyone else felt this way.

[tooki]

Originally posted by leperkuhn:
Except the design is done in such a way that it's a huge pain to do anything that requires moving cables around. Say the ATA cord goes bad on it's own.

Which is something that happens just about...never. It is effectively unheard of for them do just die. Invariably, they fail because of damage caused by improper handling.

See, the thing is, you should never be moving the cables around. It's all designed so that the cables start and end exactly in the right places, so all you do is unplug and boom, you're ready to go.

(Some earlier models, especially those equipped with ultra SCSI cards, had icky cable routing, but the blue and white G3 and all subsequent Power Macs have had sublime cable routing.)

tooki

[UnixMac]

Installing the second drive on my current G5 was something on the order of 5-10 times easier than my last hard drive upgrade in my IBM Aptiva. Furthermore, the design of the G5 tower is easily the best laid out computer that I've ever seen, and I can safely say I've owned some 15 different machines in my life. Mac, PC, Unix etc..


That said, YES.. its not the most expandable machine made.. but you can attach all kinds of RAID boxes, or Firewire devices and do what ever your hear desires.

Apple hardware design is superior to all others IMHO.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by tooki:
Which is something that happens just about...never. It is effectively unheard of for them do just die. Invariably, they fail because of damage caused by improper handling.

See, the thing is, you should never be moving the cables around. It's all designed so that the cables start and end exactly in the right places, so all you do is unplug and boom, you're ready to go.

(Some earlier models, especially those equipped with ultra SCSI cards, had icky cable routing, but the blue and white G3 and all subsequent Power Macs have had sublime cable routing.)

tooki

For a moment, try not to be a complete fan-boy and realize that it is POSSIBLE that you might need to replace an ATA cable. Jesus Christ, I'm not saying i want to replace the processor, this is something that shouldn't be hard.

In addition, also realize that while I should have replaced the cover, the design itself is inherit to problems. Similar to building a house on the edge of a cliff. Maybe the designer planned it out perfectly, but when you threw that grand piano on your porch the house fell over. Extreme example, but I don't see why it's so hard to see that the components should be more accessible.

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by leperkuhn:
For a moment, try not to be a complete fan-boy and realize that it is POSSIBLE that you might need to replace an ATA cable. Jesus Christ, I'm not saying i want to replace the processor, this is something that shouldn't be hard.

In addition, also realize that while I should have replaced the cover, the design itself is inherit to problems. Similar to building a house on the edge of a cliff. Maybe the designer planned it out perfectly, but when you threw that grand piano on your porch the house fell over. Extreme example, but I don't see why it's so hard to see that the components should be more accessible.

For a moment, please try to consider that you are completely out of your skull on this topic.

Does MacNN have a Most Senseless Waste of Drive Space award in these forums? If not, they should start one so I can nominate this entire thread for that dubious, but fitting, distinction.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by aaanorton:
For a moment, please try to consider that you are completely out of your skull on this topic.

Does MacNN have a Most Senseless Waste of Drive Space award in these forums? If not, they should start one so I can nominate this entire thread for that dubious, but fitting, distinction.

I've considered it. I am not "out of my skull".

Reasonable desire: replace an ATA cable.

[aaanorton]

Dear Steve Jobs, Apple Computer, et al,

Please make your computers more roomy. I'd appreciate having more room to move around in there. I'd also like to be able to replace every cable in there incorrectly without damaging them. Maybe you could also make LARGER cables with BIG easy-to-grip connectors. If all the cables inside were just like the power cables (only a little bigger), that'd be neat. And maybe you could make sure all the edges of all the components were rounded and finished smooth to prevent any cutting in the door hinges. Or better yet, move the door 2 or 3 feet away from any of the cables, so there won't be any problems.
And while you're at it, perhaps you could put some cup holders in there, so while I'm sitting inside this new design G6(?) moving perfectly good cables around (simply cuz I can), I'll have a place to set my Fresca.

Thank you in advance,
leperkuhn


Reasonable request: Please someone lock (or delete!) this inane thread.

[itai195]

Originally posted by leperkuhn:
Extreme example, but I don't see why it's so hard to see that the components should be more accessible.

It is a tradeoff, if you want more accessibility then you will not be happy with Apple hardware, which is designed with simplicity in mind. I sympathize with you because I do imagine those cables are hard to replace, but the error was still on your part. It doesn't really matter that the design inherently can lead to that kind of problem... the more accessible design of most PC workstations can also inherently lead to all sorts of problems. No design is perfect.

BTW did you go to an Apple store to ask them about finding a replacement cable?

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by itai195:
It is a tradeoff, if you want more accessibility then you will not be happy with Apple hardware, which is designed with simplicity in mind. I sympathize with you because I do imagine those cables are hard to replace, but the error was still on your part. It doesn't really matter that the design inherently can lead to that kind of problem... the more accessible design of most PC workstations can also inherently lead to all sorts of problems. No design is perfect.

BTW did you go to an Apple store to ask them about finding a replacement cable?

I am not suggesting that the cut cord is Apple's fault. No one seems to get it. What I am suggesting is that it sucks that it's really hard to put in a new cable. That's it.

I live in Vermont. There is no apple store anywhere near here. Nor a Comp USA.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by aaanorton:
Dear Steve Jobs, Apple Computer, et al,

Please make your computers more roomy. I'd appreciate having more room to move around in there. I'd also like to be able to replace every cable in there incorrectly without damaging them. Maybe you could also make LARGER cables with BIG easy-to-grip connectors. If all the cables inside were just like the power cables (only a little bigger), that'd be neat. And maybe you could make sure all the edges of all the components were rounded and finished smooth to prevent any cutting in the door hinges. Or better yet, move the door 2 or 3 feet away from any of the cables, so there won't be any problems.
And while you're at it, perhaps you could put some cup holders in there, so while I'm sitting inside this new design G6(?) moving perfectly good cables around (simply cuz I can), I'll have a place to set my Fresca.

Thank you in advance,
leperkuhn


Reasonable request: Please someone lock (or delete!) this inane thread.

Funny, but you're obviously missing the point. The thread might seem inane to you, that's fine. However, that's only due to the fact that you don't understand what's being said.

As far as the door is concerned, yeah, it would be nice if they used standard components instead of some dumbass size that's just a few millimeters to small.

The only problem with this thread is your contribution.

[Lateralus]

...yeah, this thread is out of go-go juice.