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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 76)
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goMac
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Nov 7, 2007, 05:41 PM
 
I think it all depends on the quality of the DVD. I've seen DVD's that (upscaled) look like crap in both the PS3 and XBox 360 (I know my copy of Austin Powers looks awful in my 360 upscaled). And I've seen titles that look just awesome upscaled in both the PS3 and 360 (Lost on DVD looked gorgeous on the PS3, and Stranger than Fiction looks gorgeous on my 360).
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Railroader
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Nov 7, 2007, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
5 minutes? I recall some discussion about this issue before, but that's insane! That would drive me absolutely crazy.
It is HIGHLY annoying. Luckily the reward is just enough.
     
Montezuma58
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Nov 7, 2007, 07:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
They thing that bugs me is the little features that are absent. When I push stop on the HD-DVD player the movie restarts from the beginning, where as I can eject and reinsert a DVD on the Sony and it will pick up where it left off. I turn on the HD-DVD player and about 5 minutes later I am watching a movie. I turn on the Sony DVD player and I am watching a movie in 20 seconds or less.
FWIW, Blu-Ray players also have the stop/resume problem. With HD DVD I believe it is possible for the player to do the stop/resume thing if the disc is authored to allow it.

The slowness of the HD DVD player is annoying. It seems like it takes forever and a day for Transformers to get to a playable state.
     
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Nov 7, 2007, 08:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
To be honest, so far I am not super impressed with my HD DVD player.

The movies do look noticeably better, but the increase in quality is not that big of a deal.

We are talking about a 10% - 20% increase in noticeable difference between a regular DVD and an HD DVD.

In some ways I'm relieved. I was kind of worried that I would never want to go back to regular DVDs again, but I'm finding that normal DVDs look so good on the HD-A2 that it isn't going to be an issue.
On my 42" LCD from a fair distance away, the difference is noticeable, but often not an OMFG-that's-totally-insane-!!!11 type of difference.

On my 90" projector screen from 9', the difference is absolutely ginormous.


Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Really? I find that even on my 720p TV that the cheapo Toshiba HD-DVD player has much better sound and picture over my top of the line sony DVD player.

They thing that bugs me is the little features that are absent. When I push stop on the HD-DVD player the movie restarts from the beginning, where as I can eject and reinsert a DVD on the Sony and it will pick up where it left off. I turn on the HD-DVD player and about 5 minutes later I am watching a movie. I turn on the Sony DVD player and I am watching a movie in 20 seconds or less.
If you put a DVD in the Toshiba player, it will also resume immediately.

As for taking 5 minutes for HD DVD, that's exaggeration, at least in my experience. Yes, the resume issue is stupid, but just FYI it's a stupid issue on both HD formats. The problem is that whomever designed these formats forgot about these "little" things most of us have come to expect.

However, DVDs resume normally, as do HD DVDs (and Blu-ray discs) authored in the basic spec. There are several HD DVDs that resume just fine. However, anything that is authored in the more advanced mode loses resume capability. It has to do with the design of the disc menus and screensavers, etc, and is a problem on both Blu-ray and HD DVD.

Recent HD DVDs have a bookmarking feature that compensates for this. You can simply press one button to bookmark the spot before you shut off. Yeah, it's another step, but it's better than nothing.

They really should properly set up automatic bookmarking and resume though, but so far haven't done it, which is dumb. What worries me is that they still haven't done it, on either hi-def format. One HD DVD guy told me that on their initial attempt, they had problems such as in the situation where a screen saver activates. If the person shut the machine off while the screensaver was active, resume would take you back into the screensaver, and you'd be stuck there. Lame. So, it's a lot more complicated than they originally imagined.

Playing DVDs in the Toshiba is a miserable experience. I find the picture quality is better on the Sony DVD player.
? As mentioned, DVD's resume on the Toshiba HD DVD player just fine. It's HD DVDs that don't resume. I find the upscaling on the Toshiba player pretty good (and better than the Xbox 360), but there are better upscalers out there (like the A20 apparently).
     
jokell82
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Nov 7, 2007, 11:38 PM
 
The changelog from the latest version of SlySoft's AnyDVD:

AnyDVD 6.1.9.6 beta - SlySoft Forum
6.1.9.6 2007 11 07

* New (Blu-ray): AnyDVD ripper copies BD+ titles
* New (Blu-ray): Removed "BD+ not supported" warning, as all available BD+ titles can be copied with AnyDVD ripper, or can be watched on HTPC without HDCP using PowerDVD 3104 and AnyDVD. Reports indicate, that burned BD+ titles work on PS3 and standalone players as well.
* Note to Twentieth Century Fox: As you can see, BD+ didn't offer you any advanced security, it just annoyed some of your customers with older players. So could you please cut this crap and start publishing your titles on HD DVD? There are thousands of people willing to give you money.
* Note to people considering to invest in HD media: Please buy HD DVD instead of Blu-ray. HD DVD is much more consumer friendly (e.g., no region coding, AACS not mandatory). Don't give your money to people, who throw your fair-use rights out of the window.
* New (HD DVD & Blu-ray): Support for more MKBv4 titles
* Some minor fixes and improvements
* Updated languages
Couldn't agree more, SlySoft. Couldn't agree more...

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icruise
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Nov 7, 2007, 11:59 PM
 
Is it really any surprise that a company that specializes in defeating copy protection would prefer the format with weaker copy protection?
     
jokell82
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Nov 8, 2007, 07:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
Is it really any surprise that a company that specializes in defeating copy protection would prefer the format with weaker copy protection?
That's not surprising. What's surprising is that Blu-Ray's indestructible BD+ protection scheme has been broken.

Well, it's not surprising to me. But it's probably surprising to Fox, Disney, and Sony.

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Dakarʒ
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Nov 8, 2007, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
I think it all depends on the quality of the DVD. I've seen DVD's that (upscaled) look like crap in both the PS3 and XBox 360 (I know my copy of Austin Powers looks awful in my 360 upscaled). And I've seen titles that look just awesome upscaled in both the PS3 and 360 (Lost on DVD looked gorgeous on the PS3, and Stranger than Fiction looks gorgeous on my 360).
I couldn't agree more about the 360. I was absolutely stunned by the quality of the Sopranos DVD, but a couple nights ago I was less then impressed by my Star Trek DVD. To state the obvious, I think it's mostly the source quality -- TNGs wasn't all that great back in 89-90, unlike the Sopranos from a few years ago.
     
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Nov 8, 2007, 01:47 PM
 
The other problem is the 360 is a poor upscaler IMO.

I tried VGA for 1080p60 to my projector, and I was wholly unimpressed with the upscaling. Finally, I just switched to component to force the Xbox 360 to output only 480p, and let the projector do the upscaling. The result is much better. It's still not as good as some of the top end scalers out there, but it's pretty good... unlike the 360's upscaling which is at best mediocre.
     
goMac
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Nov 8, 2007, 07:24 PM
 
Interesting article here:
Exclusive: The State of Blu-ray

Key Points:
• The Bluray camp is split on what version of the format to support
• Denon is going to go neutral
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starman
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Nov 9, 2007, 12:03 AM
 
Uh, wow. This makes this thread look like nursery school.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/annou...hp?f=150&a=116

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jokell82
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Nov 9, 2007, 07:57 AM
 

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Eug
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Nov 9, 2007, 01:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
But...but...I thought Blu-Ray already won?!?!
Sony's Stringer: Blu-ray vs. HD DVD battle a "stalemate" - Engadget HD
Hey, cut him some slack. Stringer sort of sounds half reasonable here at least in certain parts, unlike some of his BD brethren.

Original article.

However, this statement seems a bit odd to me:

At the same time, he played down the importance of the battle, saying it was mostly a matter of prestige whose format wins out in the end.

"It doesn't mean as much as all that," Stringer said. He added that he believed there was an opportunity of uniting the two camps under one format before he became CEO, and he wishes he could travel back in time to make that happen.


That seems like a capitulation to me. He knows they have gotten a bit hit in the past couple of weeks, but now is trying to claim winning doesn't matter. Personally, I think it matters a great deal, as the end of the format war would spur consumer sales, and the winner would stand gain TONS in royalty payments.

If winning didn't matter, they should have said so last year.
( Last edited by Eug; Nov 9, 2007 at 01:13 PM. )
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Nov 9, 2007, 03:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
That seems like a capitulation to me. He knows they have gotten a bit hit in the past couple of weeks, but now is trying to claim winning doesn't matter. Personally, I think it matters a great deal, as the end of the format war would spur consumer sales, and the winner would stand gain TONS in royalty payments.

If winning didn't matter, they should have said so last year.
Hold your horses. Seems microsoft also had something to say today about it:
"Microsoft Consumer Media Group Director Kevin Collins seemed uninterested in making the format a cornerstone of the Xbox 360 package. "Microsoft knew if we put in an HD DVD drive that we would have to raise costs and disenfranchise our customers (that are primarily gamers) as the unit would become too expensive," he said.

Sony, MS downplay high-def movie war - Joystiq

While Collins said he was proud of HD DVD's strong performance against Blu-Ray, his desire for a fight to the death between the formats left something to be desired. "The [Blu-ray] camp's claims about Microsoft's desire to have a format war are baseless," Collins said."

The part that gets me is:
""Microsoft knew if we put in an HD DVD drive that we would have to raise costs and disenfranchise our customers (that are primarily gamers) as the unit would become too expensive," he said."

Last time I checked a PS3 with a BR player, bigger HD, free online play and built in Wifi costs $399.

Xbox 360 costs the same without an HD-DVD player, small hard drive, $60 a year online play and no damn Wifi.
To get the HD-add on is $150-$200 more
Wifi is outragiously priced at $110 when even the Wii and DS have it.
And that isn't even including a bigger HD or online play.

The only down side is the $400 PS3 has no backwards compatibility which isn't that big a deal as the 360's sucks and you can get a whole stand alone PS2 slim with DVD player for $99. Not good enough? Well then you only have to pay $499 for the 80 gig PS3 with BC which is still waaaay cheaper than a 360 with the mentioned features.

The value for your dollar of the 360 totally sucks next to the PS3.
     
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Nov 9, 2007, 03:07 PM
 
Your really simplifying it. The 360 launched in 2005. how much would an HD DVD drive have cost back then. A whole lot.

Sony found out how well a $599 console sells. Like poo.

Also, the PS3 sells for $399 now, but it took a year to get down to that price. In the mean time, they have been getting outsold 2:1 by Microsoft and about 4:1 by Nintendo. The initial prce of the PS3 has left them standing in a deep hole looking up at Microsoft and Nintendo.

Did you see the current reports from Ea and Activision on software sales? EA sold about 218 million on the 360 and about 17 on the PS3. Those are sobering numbers.

Gamasutra - EA Filing Reveals GameStop/Wal-Mart Reliance, SEC Options Settling

I agree that the $399 PS3 looks like a bargain next to the 360 right now, but Microsoft has yet to respond to this latest sony price drop.
( Last edited by ort888; Nov 9, 2007 at 03:15 PM. )

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Nov 9, 2007, 03:10 PM
 
Yeah, they have already responded. They brought some games worth playing. So yeah, dollar for dollar, we've logged some serious game time on our consoles. How much Bluray time you guys pulling these days?

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Dakarʒ
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Nov 9, 2007, 03:11 PM
 
How much does a PS3 with equal features to a 360 cost (small hard drive, backwards compatibility)? $499 vs. $399. And the 360 has rumble and games I actually want to play.

Edit: And I wonder who is currently taking a larger loss per console.
     
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Nov 9, 2007, 03:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Hold your horses. Seems microsoft also had something to say today about it:
"Microsoft Consumer Media Group Director Kevin Collins seemed uninterested in making the format a cornerstone of the Xbox 360 package. "Microsoft knew if we put in an HD DVD drive that we would have to raise costs and disenfranchise our customers (that are primarily gamers) as the unit would become too expensive," he said.

Sony, MS downplay high-def movie war - Joystiq

While Collins said he was proud of HD DVD's strong performance against Blu-Ray, his desire for a fight to the death between the formats left something to be desired. "The [Blu-ray] camp's claims about Microsoft's desire to have a format war are baseless," Collins said."
The difference here though is they said the same thing last year. ie. At least they're consistent.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Nov 9, 2007, 03:40 PM
 
So what is the saving grace for HD this week? Transformers didn't do it so I guess the next thing will be "wait till the numbers for the $99 wal-mart sale comes in".



"What's really interesting is that there is only one HD DVD title in the top ten this week, and to add insult to injury, four of the top ten titles are also available on HD DVD, but didn't sell well enough to make the list. Keep in mind that these numbers are from last week, so Disney's two blockbusters aren't included and HD DVD's highly successful sale of the HD-A2 was too late in the week to impact the results, as well. "

Nielsen VideoScan High-Def market share for week ending November 4th, 2007 - Engadget HD
     
ort888
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Nov 9, 2007, 03:47 PM
 
I think we are either going to see a Blu-ray win or a stalemate.

I think the reason Blu-ray is selling better is because of the movie selection. Now that I have an Hd DVD player, I'm noticing that for there are many more Blu-ray titles that I'm interested in the HD DVD. A lot more.

It's annoying. This format war is very annoying. I woudn't have jumped in if it wasn't for the $99 price. I just couldn't resist. I'm still very hesitant to buy a lot of titles on HD DVD. Especially at the current pricing. Every damn movie is $25 or more at most places.

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Eug
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Nov 9, 2007, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I think we are either going to see a Blu-ray win or a stalemate.

I think the reason Blu-ray is selling better is because of the movie selection. Now that I have an Hd DVD player, I'm noticing that for there are many more Blu-ray titles that I'm interested in the HD DVD. A lot more.

It's annoying. This format war is very annoying. I woudn't have jumped in if it wasn't for the $99 price. I just couldn't resist. I'm still very hesitant to buy a lot of titles on HD DVD. Especially at the current pricing. Every damn movie is $25 or more at most places.
It's personal taste. I happen to prefer what's on HD DVD, but then I'm not one buy Disney movies for example.

Overall they're neck and neck. I believe BD has just over 330 titles available, and HD has just under 330. ie. It's about a 5 title difference between the two.

If you like what's on BD, then get BD (if you can stand the $399 entry price). Or if you like both, get both.

P.S. The reason BD is selling better is the PS3. I don't understand why anyone would say otherwise.
     
jokell82
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Nov 9, 2007, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
So what is the saving grace for HD this week? Transformers didn't do it so I guess the next thing will be "wait till the numbers for the $99 wal-mart sale comes in".



"What's really interesting is that there is only one HD DVD title in the top ten this week, and to add insult to injury, four of the top ten titles are also available on HD DVD, but didn't sell well enough to make the list. Keep in mind that these numbers are from last week, so Disney's two blockbusters aren't included and HD DVD's highly successful sale of the HD-A2 was too late in the week to impact the results, as well. "

Nielsen VideoScan High-Def market share for week ending November 4th, 2007 - Engadget HD
What's even more interesting is outside of the top 3 (2 BDs and 1 HD) the rest sold like crap.

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ort888
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Nov 9, 2007, 04:36 PM
 
In the grand scheme of things, both formats are selling very poorly. Sony was just bragging about 130,000 copies of Spiderman 3 being sold like ti was impressive... but really, that number is complete crap. 130,000 is nothing in the big picture. The sales of both formats amount to a hill of beans at this point.

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goMac
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Nov 9, 2007, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
So what is the saving grace for HD this week? Transformers didn't do it so I guess the next thing will be "wait till the numbers for the $99 wal-mart sale comes in".
You know, if you want to gauge the difference Transformers made, maybe you should actually look at the numbers from the week Transformers launched.
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Nov 9, 2007, 05:36 PM
 
I just bought Cars and Ratatouille the other day. Since they are all animation, hi-def makes everything even better. Would like to see the number of the sales are as well.
     
exca1ibur
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Nov 9, 2007, 05:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
You know, if you want to gauge the difference Transformers made, maybe you should actually look at the numbers from the week Transformers launched.
Honestly, which number? There has been a discrepancy with the numbers ranging from 85,000 to 190,000 units, from different sources.
     
goMac
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Nov 9, 2007, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Honestly, which number? There has been a discrepancy with the numbers ranging from 85,000 to 190,000 units, from different sources.
I couldn't find the nice pretty graphic to go with it... but...
NXTbook flash detection page

Edit: NM! Here is the graphic:


Sales for that week on the right.
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jokell82
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Nov 9, 2007, 06:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Honestly, which number? There has been a discrepancy with the numbers ranging from 85,000 to 190,000 units, from different sources.
Official notice from Paramount is 190,000 units SOLD (not shipped). I don't know anyone that would be more accurate about sales of their movie as they would...

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exca1ibur
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Nov 9, 2007, 07:13 PM
 
Probably because they don't do point of sale to have REAL numbers, just an estimate of what they have (SHIPPED aka SOLD to retailers, not end users).

According to actual retail places that sell to end users, there is a different number.

Controversy Swirls Around 'Transformers' HD DVD Sales Numbers | High-Def Digest

Doesn't seem like 190,000, but no one seems to say what it actually is.

Why is it if Sony gives this type of number that varies from other sources, there is a problem?
     
icruise
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Nov 9, 2007, 09:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Sales for that week on the right.
Before you start acting like that's an HD-DVD victory, you might want to read the text of the article (entitled "Blu-ray Has Edge Despite Paramount Move"):



So basically, even having the biggest selling movie for HD-DVD ever couldn't result in more sales than BR, even though there were no blockbuster releases that week, and as subsequent weeks have shown, the increase was only temporary.
     
Eug
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Nov 9, 2007, 11:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
Before you start acting like that's an HD-DVD victory, you might want to read the text of the article (entitled "Blu-ray Has Edge Despite Paramount Move"):



So basically, even having the biggest selling movie for HD-DVD ever couldn't result in more sales than BR, even though there were no blockbuster releases that week, and as subsequent weeks have shown, the increase was only temporary.
Don't leave out the huge 2-for-1 sale that BD had that week, specifically to counteract the Transformers release numbers.

ie. Both sides are fighting the price game now.
     
icruise
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Nov 9, 2007, 11:09 PM
 
I guess I missed that one. Who did that?
     
jokell82
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Nov 9, 2007, 11:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
I guess I missed that one. Who did that?
At least Best Buy and Circuit City did. Maybe Amazon as well?

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Nov 9, 2007, 11:45 PM
 
Don't forget that Walmart data does not get incorporated into those Nielsen numbers, which makes them garbage for judging the success of the recent HD-DVD blowout sales. With the extremely small number of either format selling, the lack of Walmart data pretty much makes those sales numbers worthless IMHO.

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Nov 10, 2007, 12:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Don't leave out the huge 2-for-1 sale that BD had that week, specifically to counteract the Transformers release numbers.

ie. Both sides are fighting the price game now.
How about notebook computers shipped with HD DVD or Blu-ray drive? As last check, they ain't that expensive at all.
     
icruise
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Nov 10, 2007, 02:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Weezer View Post
Don't forget that Walmart data does not get incorporated into those Nielsen numbers, which makes them garbage for judging the success of the recent HD-DVD blowout sales. With the extremely small number of either format selling, the lack of Walmart data pretty much makes those sales numbers worthless IMHO.
As I understand it, they don't include Walmart directly (because Walmart doesn't share their numbers with anyone) but they they do take Walmart and all other US retailers into account. NPD numbers aren't raw data, but rather projections based on everything that the company knows about market conditions, and so forth. That means that they estimate the sales from Walmart and include that in their projections. So while it would certainly be more accurate if they had direct data from Walmart and others, it's not as if they totally ignore it either.

In other words, if people on an Internet forum know that Walmart sold a lot of a particular product, people who track this kind of thing for a living also know about it.
     
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Nov 10, 2007, 03:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post

In other words, if people on an Internet forum know that Walmart sold a lot of a particular product, people who track this kind of thing for a living also know about it.
People on an internet forum have rampant speculation based on anecdotal stories of people buying lots of HD-DVDs. I dont know how you could ever accurately estimate that. Additionally, the scale we are talking about is in the thousands for these 2:1 "victories." When your sample is so small, and you have no real sales data from the big player, it all seems completely inaccurate. In the end Warner knows how much they are selling, and we will see what side they go with. IMO if Warner goes Blu-ray, it's over. If Warner goes HD-DVD, it's over.

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icruise
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Nov 10, 2007, 06:47 AM
 
I'm not saying they base their estimates on what people are saying on the Internet. I'm saying that if we know about a general buying trend, then you can bet that NPD knows about it too, and with much greater accuracy.
     
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Nov 10, 2007, 07:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
I'm not saying they base their estimates on what people are saying on the Internet. I'm saying that if we know about a general buying trend, then you can bet that NPD knows about it too, and with much greater accuracy.
I don't think Neilson can reliably peg the sales trends with regards to HD movie sales yet. The market is just too small with too much variation. If half the people that purchased the $98 player at Wal-Mart purchased one HD-DVD to go along with it at the same time that would be a significant percentage of the total HD movie sales. And most likely the sales at Wal-Mart for that week won't fit the same ratio of BD:HD-DVD seen at other retailers.

Then you have the buy one get one sale a couple of weeks ago for Blu-Ray. A couple of retailers were able to really skew the numbers from what would have been expected without the sale. I doubt they could have done that with SD DVD sales.

It all just goes to show that the sale ratios reported need to be looked at with a little skepticism.
     
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Nov 10, 2007, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
I'm not saying they base their estimates on what people are saying on the Internet. I'm saying that if we know about a general buying trend, then you can bet that NPD knows about it too, and with much greater accuracy.
All I am saying is this:

If you are estimating a dvd launch, and it sells several million, it is not a huge deal if you are off by 50k-100k. In the case of HD, that margin of error is all these titles are selling in the first place. You can look at the ratio, but if one sold 5,000 and one sold 10,000, that 2:1 ratio doesnt really mean anything to the studies.

The install base is just way too small for the studios to care much about sales numbers of software at this point. I think Warner is going to go with whoever they think has the best long term strategy, biggest standalone install base, and cheapest replication costs.

I think blu-ray is narrowly winning right now. However, with every HD-DVD player ever sold fully up to spec (none of those blu-ray profile mess), replication infrastructure already in place from DVDs, and Toshiba on the warpath to increase their install base, I would put my money on HD-DVD. Warner has a long history with Toshiba, and I think it is only a matter of time before they go exclusive. I don't think Walmart would be pumping all of these players to consumers if they didn't know something we didn't know about Warner.

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Nov 10, 2007, 12:03 PM
 
Just for some comparison, the best selling DVD is Finding Nemo, which sold 15 million copies in it's first two weeks.

Compare that to Spiderman 3 selling 130,000 and you get a good idea of the scales we are dealing with.

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Nov 10, 2007, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
How about notebook computers shipped with HD DVD or Blu-ray drive? As last check, they ain't that expensive at all.
Most models are from Sony and Toshiba who don't have to pay the price.
     
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Nov 10, 2007, 12:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Just for some comparison, the best selling DVD is Finding Nemo, which sold 15 million copies in it's first two weeks.

Compare that to Spiderman 3 selling 130,000 and you get a good idea of the scales we are dealing with.
When you consider that low res video on phones and web browsers is so popular you kinda get the feeling not many give a **** about high definition until everything is in high definition bar none. Look at this factoid. This thread and its poll is very old but only has 47 votes. Sucky level of interest.
     
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Nov 10, 2007, 12:26 PM
 
I don't think DVD sales comparisons are relevant. It's going to be a long time until the DVD goes away. Most homes are still SD and it will remain that way for a long time.

This "war" is about which HD format is dominant. DVD and HD…at least in my mind…are separate issues. They will remain separate issues until HD TV's are in the majority of homes. By that time the dominant format might be a 20TB HD DVR with movie downloading capability.
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Nov 10, 2007, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
I don't think DVD sales comparisons are relevant. It's going to be a long time until the DVD goes away. Most homes are still SD and it will remain that way for a long time.

This "war" is about which HD format is dominant. DVD and HD…at least in my mind…are separate issues. They will remain separate issues until HD TV's are in the majority of homes. By that time the dominant format might be a 20TB HD DVR with movie downloading capability.
Well you're half right. The reason that most homes are still not HD is BECAUSE there is a HD war. That's why the war is so important at this point, because it's the very reason that the HD numbers ARE so low. And that's why the fan-boys are so insistent that one format or the other wins and soon, so that the rest of the world can jump on board and go HD without thinking that half of them are going to get screwed over if their choice loses. There is no comparison between HD and DVD..... there will never be a war between them..... once BR or HDDVD wins, regular old DVD will go the way of the Dodo the next day.

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Nov 10, 2007, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
Well you're half right. The reason that most homes are still not HD is BECAUSE there is a HD war. That's why the war is so important at this point, because it's the very reason that the HD numbers ARE so low. And that's why the fan-boys are so insistent that one format or the other wins and soon, so that the rest of the world can jump on board and go HD without thinking that half of them are going to get screwed over if their choice loses.
This is very true — I know many people who view it exactly this way. This is also why I think HD-DVD will win. It's going to get into the price range where people can think "Aww, heck, I can afford to eat this" long before Blu-Ray does.
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icruise
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Nov 10, 2007, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
once BR or HDDVD wins, regular old DVD will go the way of the Dodo the next day.
That couldn't be farther from the truth, unless you have a different definition of "winning" than I do. Regular DVD will be around for quite some time, simply because even after the winning HD format has been decided, there will still be a lot of people who haven't gotten on board, and who may not even have HDTVs.
     
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Nov 10, 2007, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
That couldn't be farther from the truth, unless you have a different definition of "winning" than I do. Regular DVD will be around for quite some time, simply because even after the winning HD format has been decided, there will still be a lot of people who haven't gotten on board, and who may not even have HDTVs.

I think DVD will disappear a LOT faster than LPs did when CDs came out. DVD's don't even have any various advantages over HD like LPs did over CDs so there's no reason to keep buying DVDs whatsoever. Once the winner is decided everyone will go get a $79 bluray player at wall-mart and buy BR discs even if they don't have an HDTV won't they? They will get a better picture, still be able to watch all their old DVDs, still be able to use their old TV, etc. and will stop digging themselves into a obsolete hole. Why the heck would anyone wait once the war ended? Everyone would have switched already NOW if not for the format war. YOU are the one that couldn't be farther from the truth (or more exaggerated in your rebuttal style).
( Last edited by mrtew; Nov 10, 2007 at 03:11 PM. )

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Nov 10, 2007, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
Well you're half right. The reason that most homes are still not HD is BECAUSE there is a HD war. That's why the war is so important at this point, because it's the very reason that the HD numbers ARE so low. And that's why the fan-boys are so insistent that one format or the other wins and soon, so that the rest of the world can jump on board and go HD without thinking that half of them are going to get screwed over if their choice loses.
I don't completely agree.

HD TV's are still too expensive to attain the kind of market saturation they need for any kind of win for HD over SD, though they are getting better and better. Plus it hasn't been until just recently that any significant number of HD channels was available. Yes, I agree that the format war complicates things and certainly doesn't help, but to give it all or even the majority of the blame is an exaggeration.

The real reason is that HD's time hadn't come yet. It's been perpetually "on it's way" for years. The war is only a part of that, not the cause and not even the greatest cause. I think that HD broadcasts and a good and economically viable selection of HD channels available on cable and satellite will do more for getting those homes than any silly HD format victory. As has been mentioned a million times, upscaled DVD's still look pretty awesome. people can live without an HD movie format, it's living with an SD signal that's the killer. Had Blu Ray or HD DVD been the only choice from the start and had their been no war we would still be waiting for the TV prices and HD content to come around.

Not to mention that with those expensive TV's we had mechanical issues, bulkiness, short life-spans or burn-in, high bulb replacement costs etc. These just have not been consumer-oriented machines. It seems to me that cheaper and better flat screens are the ticket now.

Did we all forget that when it comes to broadcasts that everyone dropped the ball? No one could agree on resolution and still there is no real standard and they have dragged their feet for years just to get to this stage now.

That's just my opinion. I'm not as highly knowledgeable about this as many of you obviously are.
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Nov 10, 2007, 03:23 PM
 
DVDs aren't going anywhere for a long time.

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