[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by runejoha

The last PB Als updates have no significant performance upgrades. To expect a great one now, just before the mactels, is very unlikely.

Even if the 15" PowerBook went from a G4 7447A 1.67 GHz to a G4 7448 1.7 GHz, that's still a pretty significant performance upgrade. The G4 7448 has twice the L2 cache of the 7447A.

However, the 12" has the most to gain. It's current configuration sucks, with its 256 MB soldered on and GeForce FX 5200 GPU. Unless you absolutely must have the machine today, I think it's a mistake to buy the current 12" PowerBook at this point.

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

The 7448 is a drop-in replacement for the 7447A. It's a no-brainer upgrade. Plus, such a machine will be very attractive to those requiring PowerPC Macs to run specific software.

Also, I don't expect Yonah PowerBooks to appear until calendar Q2 2006 anyway. The last update was Jan. 2005. If the next update is November 2005, then an April 2006 Yonah PowerBook will be perfect timing.

I agree completely that the 7448 would be a nice upgrade to have on the market, especially given that it might spur sales a bit going into the holiday season. And if you turn out to be right about Yonah Powerbooks coming out no earlier than April, I would fully expect to see a 7448 upgrade no later than November.

My original point calling into question whether Apple will even bother with an upgrade to the 7448 (despite pin compatibility) was made on the assumption that Apple would be ready to announce Yonah powerbooks in January, either for immediate shipping or shipping no later than February.

I'm torn myself. I want to buy a 15" Powerbook sometime in the next 12 months or so. I'm in no dire need, so I'm flexible. I'm not interested in the current models, because while they're still good machines, they're a little long in the tooth, given their price. I would be tempted if they upgraded to the 7448 (especially if combined with other upgrades to the machine), but I'd really rather wait for the Intel chips. Like many, though, I'm also wary of first versions. Part of me would like to see no 7448 upgrade, a quick Yonah-based Powerbook in January, and a Merom-based "Rev. B" in the late-Summer/early-Fall. Under that scenario, I might be able to hold out for Merom.

[robisconfusedd]

so does anyone have any guess as to when they are gonna make and improvements? i dont care how little of an improvement they make, i just want the last of the last they make with a g4 processor

[Tesseract]

No one ever really knows for sure.

The most reliable source of rumors and 'inside information' over the past year or two has been thinksecret.com. Lately (since the lawsuit against them) the quality and quantity of information has decreased.

Anyway, what thinksecret says and our own hunches are the best information we have. Thinksecret (correctly) predicted that there would not be a PB upgrade at the Apple Expo. (They also predicted a dual core PowerMac, so that gives you some indication of their fallibility). The general belief (aka wild conjecture) is that Apple will update the PowerBook with a final G4 processor either this year or in January 06, then announce an Intel PB within the first 8 months of 2006. This could just be wishful thinking, of course.

[runejoha]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

The G4 7448 has twice the L2 cache of the 7447A.

- Yes, it could be a difference for some people and some tasks/prosesses/programs, but the same FSB, memory and HW setup in general, and laptop use in general, this upgrade is primary a number for marketing. The truth is that the CPU is not longer the bottle neck, which makes a PB today pretty fast regardeless the outdated CPUs. More RAM, better battery etc. may be issues for a upgrade.

[runejoha]

Seriously, I dont want to troll here, but buying a G4 CPU in 2006 is like buying a Ericsson 688 mobile phone this year. It is not outdated, it is the stone age compared to Intel.

How much longer can they milk the marked with these terrible CPUs. (ok a little nice troll, but he is a happy one )

[robertj]

Originally Posted by runejoha

Seriously, I dont want to troll here, but buying a G4 CPU in 2006 is like buying a Ericsson 688 mobile phone this year. It is not outdated, it is the stone age compared to Intel.

How much longer can they milk the marked with these terrible CPUs. (ok a little nice troll, but he is a happy one )

I like this comment, I don't know why. It's only the last point I disagree with. How much longer can/will Apple continue to sell these CPUs? About 8 more months. Apple would rather "milk the marked" with the fastest CPUs available, and they will, as soon as they switch to Intel.

But, as far as whether or not a Powerbook is a good investment in 2005... well, the iBook I would consider a very good investment. The PowerBook is less of a value, but even though the processor sucks, you know, it's still the fastest mobile processor the Mac has ever seen. (A G5 desktop is much faster, and comparable to Intel chips in speed. It's just a little heavy to carry around.) How much faster would a Windows laptop have to be in order for me to prefer it? The Windows laptop would have to be fast enough that I couldn't live without it, fast enough to double my productivity. In real-world terms, I feel like a Powerbook G4 brings me better value than a 1500^10 GHz Pentium M running Windows. But yes, I do look forward to the transition to faster portable chips.

In other words, from my perspective, buying a computer running XP in 2005 is, you know, the stone age compared to Mac OS 10.4...

P.S. On topic: please bring the new Powerbooks, 1-800-SOS-APPL

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by runejoha

Seriously, I dont want to troll here, but buying a G4 CPU in 2006 is like buying a Ericsson 688 mobile phone this year. It is not outdated, it is the stone age compared to Intel.

In 2006, you may be right, but not this year. By late 2006, Merom is scheduled to debut, and should be available soon thereafter as a 64-bit Mactel PowerBook. And by "Revision B," 4-6 months later, I'll be buying one of them. Since I want more power this year, I plan on buying the upcoming PowerBook PPC "last upgrade," which will more than fulfill my needs until then, giving me reasonable computing power to run the world's greatest OS!

And, as robertj so eloquently stated, "buying a computer running XP in 2005 is, you know, the stone age compared to Mac OS 10.4..."

Couldn't have said it better myself!



iBorg

[Simon]

Originally Posted by runejoha

- Yes, it could be a difference for some people and some tasks/prosesses/programs, but the same FSB, memory and HW setup in general, and laptop use in general, this upgrade is primary a number for marketing.

That's not entirely correct. The 7448 will also allow a new FSB (200MHz) and thus have a larger overall impact than just what you'd expect from the larger L2 or the +133MHz.

An upgrade from a 1.67GHz 7447 to a 1.8Ghz 7448 would be nothing to sneeze at. Of course it's not Merom, but for those that need a new PowerBook now it would be a very decent improvement.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by runejoha

- Yes, it could be a difference for some people and some tasks/prosesses/programs, but the same FSB, memory and HW setup in general, and laptop use in general, this upgrade is primary a number for marketing. The truth is that the CPU is not longer the bottle neck, which makes a PB today pretty fast regardeless the outdated CPUs. More RAM, better battery etc. may be issues for a upgrade.

As Simon says, the 7448 also supports a faster bus. And 1 MB L2 would indeed be quite a performance boost over 512 KB L2, for a whole variety of stuff. I'm guessing on average the L2 boost alone would be somewhere around 5-10% or even 15% with some apps, at the same clock speed. Plus you'd get a bit more because of the increased bus speed.

If Apple were to ship 1.8 GHz G4 7448 15" PowerBooks, that would mean a difference of somewhere around a 15% speed boost overall compared to the current fastest PowerBook. I should also point out that a 1.8 GHz G4 7448 with 200 MHz bus would probably play back most 720p H.264 material cleanly, whereas a 1.67 GHz G4 7447A with 167 MHz bus often drops frames on 720p H.264 material.

BTW, I highly doubt the first IntelBooks will ship with more than 512 MB built-in, and I expect the next PowerPC 12" to have 512 MB built-in too. OTOH, the current 12" PowerBook only has 256 MB built-in, which is kinda lame. Even the iBook has more than that (not to mention a better GPU too). As you said, CPU performance isn't everything, and RAM will help. However, the big RAM amount upgrade on the 12" will come with the next PowerPC upgrade, not with Intel.

[Macpilot]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

OTOH, the current 12" PowerBook only has 256 MB built-in, which is kinda lame. Even the iBook has more than that (not to mention a better GPU too). As you said, CPU performance isn't everything, and RAM will help. However, the big RAM amount upgrade on the 12" will come with the next PowerPC upgrade, not with Intel.

You seem to have the answers on all the future Apple products, but can't get the facts straight on the current specs. ALL Apple computers except for the Combo eMac currently ship with 512mb RAM standard.

And the average person won't be able to notice the difference in graphics performance between the new iBook and a 12" Powerbook. And anyone using these machines for serious gaming is kidding themselves.

[habibman]

Originally Posted by Macpilot

You seem to have the answers on all the future Apple products, but can't get the facts straight on the current specs. ALL Apple computers except for the Combo eMac currently ship with 512mb RAM standard

I am pretty sure s/he was talking about built in RAM. After all, it would be prefered that the 12 would come with 512 built in, and one slot to upgrade to 1.5 with a gig stick.

[ghoti_9]

AppleInsider recently posted a rumor about new iPods and Pro level macs this month, citing dry supply as an indicator.

http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1298

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Macpilot

You seem to have the answers on all the future Apple products, but can't get the facts straight on the current specs. ALL Apple computers except for the Combo eMac currently ship with 512mb RAM standard.

Originally Posted by habibman

I am pretty sure s/he was talking about built in RAM. After all, it would be prefered that the 12 would come with 512 built in, and one slot to upgrade to 1.5 with a gig stick.

Correct, and I specified that I was talking about built-in RAM in my post too. The iBook has 512 MB soldered onto the mobo, whereas the PowerBook 12" has only 256 MB soldered on. It's lame having to remove 256 MB in order upgrade the RAM in the PowerBook.

Originally Posted by Macpilot

And the average person won't be able to notice the difference in graphics performance between the new iBook and a 12" Powerbook. And anyone using these machines for serious gaming is kidding themselves.

I agree the real-life performance difference isn't humungous, but nonetheless the GPU of the iBook is still superior to the GPU of the 12" PowerBook which costs significantly more.

That will be corrected soon enough, with a new PowerPC 12" PowerBook, which was my original point.

Originally Posted by ghoti_9

AppleInsider recently posted a rumor about new iPods and Pro level macs this month, citing dry supply as an indicator.

http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1298

Yup, the fish is correct, but it's not just dry supply. AI is also saying that 10.4.3 directly references unreleased Power Macs and PowerBooks.

"Mac OS X 10.4.3 continues to include references to unreleased PowerMac and PowerBook models, according sources. The frequency in which Apple has released new builds of the update indicates that a release is on tap for the first half of October."

This type of pre-release documention of Apple products in the OS has happened several times already.

[Pao|o]

My speculations on the next Powerbook

Processors will be bumped up to 1.67GHz and 1.8GHz from 1.5GHz to 1.67GHz OR (though unlikely) Powerbooks with G5s.
Memory will be bumped up to 768MB/1GB from 512MB.
Hard disc drive capacity will be bumped up from 60/80/100GB to 80/100/120GB
Video card will be bumped up to the next generation video card but video memory may not get a boost.
Backlit keyboard becomes standard from 12" to 17"
Gigabit Ethernet becomes standard from 12" to 17"
Firewire 800 becomes standard from 12" to 17"
Digital/analog audio becomes an option for 12" to 15"
Superdrives becomes standard for 12" to 17"

What may not happen:
New Ive's Powerbook designs. I think Apple's reserving it for the Mactels.
No price cuts because Apple wants to reserve that option when they offer Mactels.
People not whining that their half year old Powerbook is now obsolete.

[Macpilot]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

It's lame having to remove 256 MB in order upgrade the RAM in the PowerBook.

Uh, you don't have to remove anything if you order the Powerbook with the amount of RAM that you want from Apple.

[brokenjago]

The RAM from Apple is nutoriously overpriced. Nutoriously.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Macpilot

Uh, you don't have to remove anything if you order the Powerbook with the amount of RAM that you want from Apple.

LOL.

512 MB 12" PB --> 1.25 GB 12" PB pre-configured by Apple: $425

OR

1 GB Crucial DDR400 SO-DIMM (which is higher spec than needed) from Newegg: $120, and you have a 256 MB stick left over.

Of course, you're maxed out at 1.25 GB. The max for the lowly iBook is 1.5 GB. More important is the difference with the cheaper 512 MB upgrade however. (512 MB is $50 for Corsair DDR333 at Newegg.) With the current 12" PB, that 512 MB SO-DIMM only takes you to 768 MB. With the iBook it totals 1 GB, and I find with Tiger and moderate usage that extra 256 MB can be significant, especially if there is more than one user account active. (I had a 768 MB TiBook, and now I have a 1 GB iBook.)

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Pao|o

Scrolling Trackpad becomes standard for 12" to 17"
Sudden Motion Sensor becomes standard for 12" to 17"

Has been the case since February.

[Pao|o]

Originally Posted by Simon

Has been the case since February.

Thanks for the head's up. will correct

[harrisjamieh]

Looks like an update is just round the corner, according to Apple Insider: http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1298

along with updates to the powermac and 5th gen iPods with bigger capacity and small physical sizes

[gee308]

Yeah , Ithink they are coming soon, someone noticed ship time increases: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/grou...1#841003165731

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

Looks like an update is just round the corner, according to Apple Insider: http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1298

along with updates to the powermac and 5th gen iPods with bigger capacity and small physical sizes

[habibman]

Originally Posted by gee308

Yeah , Ithink they are coming soon, someone noticed ship time increases: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/grou...1#841003165731

But why would they just bump the 15's? That makes little sense.

[No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones]

Well, I hope it's soon, trigger finger itchy.

[DKeithA]

oh me too, but it is not a good idea to buy now unless you are in dire need of a new machine.

[Pao|o]

Here's a little crazy speculation... BD-ROM/DVD writer drives.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Pao|o

Here's a little crazy speculation... BD-ROM/DVD writer drives.

Yeah, that's crazy. That's even more crazy than HD-DVD drives for 2005, and HD-DVD laptop drives actually already exist.

[DKeithA]

Since Intel is supporting HD-DVD, it might be quite a stretch to think we might get Blue Ray drives since Apple is now in bed with Intel.

[Pao|o]

Blu-ray Disc Association Welcomes Apple to Its Board of Directors
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/mar/10blu-ray.html

The press release is the reason why I think Apple will go with BD rather than HD-DVD.

Sony uses Intel chips but are part of Blu-ray Disc Association

I'm thinking a BD-ROM/DVD writer drive is feasable because of the two~ month delay of the Powerbook. Apple has to offer features that *really* defines their consumer line from their professional line.

The current 12" iBook vs 12" Pbook doesnt have much of a difference really.

[Pao|o]

Though this press release makes it appear that Apple will do BD & HD-DVD.

A dual drive Macs in the future?

[Tim916]

I'd really like to see the 12" get a good upgrade in terms of standard ram and video and also a better screen. I read a rumor that the 12" would be dropped, but I don't see how that would make any sense, seeing how a lot of people need a small notebook that is (or should be) more capable than the 12" ibook. Not to mention that it is really slick looking, too.

[DKeithA]

Interesting links. Thanks for the info.

[Pao|o]

I second the better screen is really needed. I just passed by a coffee shop on my way to work and a person with a Compaq (yes, one of those...) had a better quality screen that what i have on my iBook. I am not to whine but... WTF? A higher resolution screen would be most welcome for the Powerbook line.

[pat++]

Originally Posted by Pao|o

I second the better screen is really needed. I just passed by a coffee shop on my way to work and a person with a Compaq (yes, one of those...) had a better quality screen that what i have on my iBook. I am not to whine but... WTF? A higher resolution screen would be most welcome for the Powerbook line.

I believe one of the reason why Apple was planning to release (and cancelled) higher def PowerBooks is that they are not capable of playing H.264 with a higher res. This might change with the 7448, but honestly I doubt we'll see a higher res until Intel based PowerBook or even Leopard...

[salaryman]

probably worth noting that the UK online store has the following ship times for the standard powerbook set ups:

15" combo - 2 days
15" super - 2-3 WEEKS
17" super - 5 days

updates coming very soon, without question :-)

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Nothing to add. I just wanna show my sausage.

[jesset]

Have you guys heard about the One More Thing special event on the 12th? I wonder if pbook updates would preceed a big announcement on the 12th.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/...04154949.shtml

[gkorsgard]

My 17" PB was dropped and destroyed. I can't decide wether to buy a new current model or wait to see what next week brings. Any suggestions?

[Weezer]

think secret says new powerbooks/powermacs are coming on the 12th

[redheadfred]

so we got new vPods, or new Powerbook and Powermacs. Hmmm...how bout all three?

[jesset]

I bit the bullett and finally got my new powerbook on the 26th. If they release new ones I'm going to be slightly pissed... any chance I can return it? Is the 14 day policy flexible?

[Pao|o]

if it isnt the ipod video then pbooks and pmacs with a built-in Blu-ray drive

[Kenstee]

Originally Posted by salaryman

probably worth noting that the UK online store has the following ship times for the standard powerbook set ups:

15" combo - 2 days
15" super - 2-3 WEEKS
17" super - 5 days

updates coming very soon, without question :-)

Maybe so. But ship times at US Store are 1-2 days. The thing that points to updates are rebate offerings which expire in a week or two at Amazon and MacMall among others.

[pat++]

One the France store, standard setup :

15" Combo : 2-3 weeks
15" SuperDrive : 5 days
17" SuperDrive : 2-3 weeks

If you add memory on the 15" SuperDrive, it says 2-3 weeks as well

[DKeithA]

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Maybe so. But ship times at US Store are 1-2 days. The thing that points to updates are rebate offerings which expire in a week or two at Amazon and MacMall among others.

but add memory and it turns into 2-3 weeks.

[tracemhunter]

i just got my powerbook about a month and a half ago so if they come out with new ones i will be slightly pissed. but not too bad. i am pretty excited about it actually.

[imacgeek]

Yeah the 12 of OCt. and I can't wait

[B Gallagher]

yeah... i'm holding out for the 12th.. right now I am in limbo between my old desktop PC and a 15" PB... ah waiting is never fun. Oh well. I'm sure the wait will be worth it. With the announcement (of something) on the 12th, it would be rediculous for me to not wait right now.

[Kenstee]

Think Secret ...

"Updated PowerBooks expected next week will sport higher resolution displays, sources have said. Although specific resolutions are unknown, sources expect the number of pixels packed into the displays to increase by about 15 percent on the 15- and 17-inch models. Much how Apple abandoned monochrome screens in its iPods this year, as Think Secret foretold in February, documents reveal the company plans to have widescreen displays in all of its systems in 2006. While it's possible that the 12-inch display currently featured in the PowerBook may be replaced with a widescreen model now, it's more likely to arrive next year.

Both updated Power Mac and PowerBook systems are expected to use DDR2 memory, delivering performance improvements beyond the typical processor speed bumps. At least one Power Mac G5 configuration will feature IBM's PowerPC 970MP dual-core processor, while PowerBooks are expected to see their PowerPC 7447A processor replaced with a slightly faster 7448 model."

Might be pretty sweet if true.

[habibman]

Hi, I just wanted to point out that forbes.com (not a site i ever check to be honest; totally random) seems to think that the video ipod is coming out on the 12th. I personally think that they are wrong and that it will be a PB/PM update, but that would be cool if it were both. I'd be set