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mbfisher · Jul 27, 2002, 02:22 PM

[Warning: moderate rambling ahead]

Okay, so let me preface this by saying that I know a lot of people don't give a rat's a** about what kind of keyboard they use. But I think there's a minority out there who are particular about the feel of keyboards, and I happen to be one of them.

So - I'm looking for recommendations on USB keyboards. It seems to me that over time, the quality of keyboards available for Macs has gone way downhill. For such an important input device, my impression is that there are relatively few -good- options out there.

I guess that I'm sort of old-school on this, to me keyboards should have a good, crisp tactile feel - one that makes it very obvious that you have engaged a key. I like the old (REALLY OLD) original IBM PC keyboard - the one that goes "CLACK!" at every keystroke, and as I recall there were one or two Mac keyboards early on that also had really good, positive feedback like this. Yeah, they can be noisy - but at least you know when you've pressed a key.

I recently switched to an Apple Pro keyboard, and have been very disappointed. It feels mushy as hell to me - not at all what I was expecting. Half the time I miss caps because my hand can't tell when the shift key is fully engaged.

I had been using a Microsoft "Internet" keyboard (or whatever it's called, the one that has a bunch of silly dedicated buttons for "home", etc.) and this was ok, but not great. I switched to the Apple Pro in part because I figured that if anyone would be thinking about keyboard ergonomics, it would be Apple. I guess not.

So, all that said - what good options are available? There are tons of USB keyboards available, most of them look like junk. Does anyone (who is also picky about key feel) have a particular favorite?

My preference would be a Mac-specific keyboard, since this will have command & option labels, but at this point I'd settle for a PC keyboard if it had a good feel. I hate split-keyboard designs, I've never found them to be helpful but that's just me.

Opinions, etc. are most welcome.

Thanks for the bandwidth,

Mike

slider · Jul 28, 2002, 07:30 PM

The keyboard I think you're looking for is this one <a href="http://www.microconnectors.com/usbkey.html" target="_blank">http://www.microconnectors.com/usbkey.html</a> in my opinion the worst keyboard I've ever used. But it's clackity clack and all that. But, you see I love my Apple pro keyboard, I know it's sad, but it just fits me. Seriously, the above like sounds like what you're looking for. I really gotta know if this works for you, so post back.

mbfisher · Jul 29, 2002, 04:58 PM

Thanks for the input - but no, I don't think that's what I was referring to. That keyboard is considered a "soft touch" - definitely not like the original IBM PC keyboard.

After doing a little more research over the weekend, what I learned is that what I'm after is called "buckling spring" technology. This is what was used in the old IBM keyboards, and it's what gives them that great tactile feedback.

One company that makes a buckling spring keyboard is here:

<a href="http://www.pckeyboard.com/ep104.html" target="_blank">http://www.pckeyboard.com/ep104.html</a>

... and I also discovered that the original IBM bucking spring keyboard was called the Model M - and at one point it was made with a PS/2 connector. PS/2 can be easily converted to USB, and obtaining a model M keyboard is as simple as a search on Ebay. Now this won't solve the typical problem of PC keyboards not mapping perfectly to Apple (as I recall the 'option' button is missing), but that could probably be solved with some function-key mapping.

Now, I'll be the first to agree that keyboards are a personal choice - what works well for one person might not for another. But I just can't see how the Apple Pro keyboard is in any way a step forward. In my opinion, the keys are too close together and it's got about as much "feel" as a 1972 Lincoln Continental . But as I said, I'm picky and what works for one person, etc.

Anyway, I was amused to discover that I'm not the only person who thinks the original IBM keyboards were the best ever made. One guy even has a whole website devoted to the Model M keyboard:

<a href="http://www.3m3718.com/modelm.html" target="_blank">http://www.3m3718.com/modelm.html</a>

Pretty fanatical, but it's nice to be vindicated :-)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by slider:
The keyboard I think you're looking for is this one <a href="http://www.microconnectors.com/usbkey.html" target="_blank">http://www.microconnectors.com/usbkey.html</a> in my opinion the worst keyboard I've ever used. But it's clackity clack and all that. But, you see I love my Apple pro keyboard, I know it's sad, but it just fits me. Seriously, the above like sounds like what you're looking for. I really gotta know if this works for you, so post back.<hr /></blockquote>

slider · Jul 29, 2002, 08:47 PM

I'm an certainly not a keyboard pro, it's just that the Apple keyboard fits me. I have used others, although not the model M, and I just like it. I even like it's weight.

I think it's awesome that you found what you're looking for. How long has it been since you last used one? I wonder if it will be all that you remember it to be or if, you'll find that your feel for keys has changed. Anyways, just curious, I'd like to hear back when you get your Model M.

slider

Wagnerite · Jul 30, 2002, 04:49 AM

alright, more mindless rant coming:

I type about 125-130 wpm and with a bad keyboard that drops to around 80-90wpm. IMHO, the keyboard on the Powerbook 1400 is absolutely the best keyboard ever build. if you have/had a pb1400 you know what i'm talking about. yes, it clacks, but the distance that the key travels is very short (don't have to press it down 2 inches to get that click). Once i maxed out at 145 wpm (that was a good day)

anywho, if anyone knows of a usb keyboard that feels like the 1400 pb, then definately post a link, i'd be willing to pay up to 130 bucks for them.

btw, posting my wpm is not meant to brag, only to illustrate the difference a good keyboard makes (i know people that types 170-190wpm, so i'm definately no speedster)

mbfisher · Jul 30, 2002, 10:41 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by slider:
I'm an certainly not a keyboard pro, it's just that the Apple keyboard fits me. I have used others, although not the model M, and I just like it. I even like it's weight.

I think it's awesome that you found what you're looking for. How long has it been since you last used one? I wonder if it will be all that you remember it to be or if, you'll find that your feel for keys has changed. Anyways, just curious, I'd like to hear back when you get your Model M.

slider<hr /></blockquote>Yes, it's certainly true that it all comes down to what works for you personally. Also, I would imagine that people who started using computers after the early 90s would have a very different sense of what feels "right" than people who used the buckling-spring stuff. The whole thing reminds me of the difference between a piano and most synthesizers. Same musical language more or less (88 keys, arranged the same way) but the feel is totally different, and someone who is completely used to one will probably have a difficult time adapting to the other.

The old Model M is on its way, so I'll definitely post a follow-up report.

Mike

Evangellydonut · Jul 30, 2002, 03:52 PM

I'm not too much into keyboards, but surprisingly enough, I really like the M$ Natural Keyboard Pro...that is if you don't get annoyed by the windoz icon instead of apple icon. M$' drivers are also pretty good IMHO...one or two keys did get stiff though, after 'bout a year + of usage...

mbfisher · Aug 4, 2002, 05:13 PM

Follow-up:

Okay, my 1994 Model M buckling spring keyboard arrived Friday. After a lengthy and thorough cleaning, it's ready for business (did you know that most of the Model M can be washed in a dishwasher? Amazing what you can learn on the Internet).

I obtained a PS/2 to USB adapter from a local Fry's Electronics for $25, and it's good to go. Total spent: $55, less than the cost of the Apple Pro keyboard.

General comments: keyboard layout is much better than the Apple Pro I had been using. Keys are spaced a comfortable distance apart, and the curvature of the key layout (slightly angled up, instead of fairly flat like Apple Pro) is nice. The overall weight of the keyboard is also nice (the Model M has a steel backplate and is extremely heavy compared to more current designs. There's almost no chance that you'll move it out of place by accident.) The height of this keyboard is better (for me, at least) than that of the Apple - I had to have the Apple keyboard seated on a thin phone book to get it to the right height.

The key action isn't quite as crisp as I remember it, but I am defintely liking the tactile feedback.

Now for the problems: as expected, the option and control functions don't exist on this keyboard (as far as OS X is concerned). So I need a way to map "Ctrl" and "Alt" to other funtions. I had thought that USB Overdrive software would do this, but I see now that it's intended for mice and gamepad assignments, not for keyboard assignments.

So, my question to anyone who's reading this is: any suggestions for re-mapping keys under OS9 and OSX?

My next move is going to be to get at least one more Model M - to see if it's any "looser" or "tighter" than this one. In the meantime, though - this is definitely a step up. I already notice fewer typos and a better overall typing "feel".

slider · Aug 4, 2002, 07:28 PM

Well done, sorry, can't help you with the mapping, but I know someone here can. Again, nice job.

Evangellydonut · Aug 5, 2002, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by mbfisher:
Now for the problems: as expected, the option and control functions don't exist on this keyboard (as far as OS X is concerned). So I need a way to map "Ctrl" and "Alt" to other funtions. I had thought that USB Overdrive software would do this, but I see now that it's intended for mice and gamepad assignments, not for keyboard assignments.

So, my question to anyone who's reading this is: any suggestions for re-mapping keys under OS9 and OSX?

Like i mentioned before, M$ keyboard drivers are pretty good under OS 9 and X...and it changes key mapping under both OS...

mbfisher · Aug 6, 2002, 02:10 AM

A little more follow-up:

I've ordered a "Customizer" buckling spring keyboard from www.pckeyboard.com - they're one of only a tiny number of companies (like, um, two) that still make keyboards with this technology. Only $60 - same price as the Apple Pro, but I'd place my bets on the buckling spring 'board to survive the long haul. Did I mention how much I loathe the insanely short cable on the Apple Pro keyboard?

Anyway, the nice thing about the Customizer keyboard is that it comes with the extra windows key found on most modern PC keyboards. Oh, and since it's new I won't be spending next Saturday morning disassembling it and running it through the dishwasher, as I did with the Model M.

I'll give that and the current Model M a try with the MS keyboard drivers under 9 and X, and will post a follow-up here when I've got some results to share.

mavherzog · Aug 22, 2007, 02:34 PM

I love the Model M...but the space saver model is my favorite. I NEVER use the numpad and hate that I have to reach over it to get to my mouse. The Happy Hacking Pro and space saver Model M's are the only keyboards I'll use now.