[MacNZ]

After going through a whole heapa posts I have a few general things that are bugging me related to apple products. be Appreciated if ppl would answer:

1. Why is Apple always so slow to adopt new technologies (eg, ATA/100)? I mean most PC makers update their products all the time. If a new technology comes in it is immediately adopted. Instead Apple waits until 6-7 new ones come along before adopting them all at once. Anyways, by the time revised mac models with all the new technologies come out everyone wants the new model. We are stuck with all thse ppl deciding to buy a mac now or whether to get the next majorly improved one. Wow, a long wait in most cases.
2. Intel had the same problems as Motorola with the G4 last year getting reliable PIII chips at certain speeds. They solved it really quickly and have kept really upping their speeds regularly. Why couldn't Motorola solve the G4's probs nearly as quickly and why is the PowerPC lagging behind so much in Mhz (beware: I didn't say actual overall speed so no need for an arguement.)
3. Is Apple more concerned with their profits than turning out quality products? (likely to be opinionated)
4. Does Apple really believe it's Photoshop tests on G4 are convincing and 'real'???

yeah, If you got through all that crap, good on ya's!

[wlonh]

Apple personnel obviously smoke too much pot!

they are hopelessly addicted!

[MacNZ]

Don't get me wrong wlonh, I am not trying to be anti-mac, just annoys me sometimes ey. Does everyone smoke it in the states??

[wlonh]

sorry to be glib, i could not resist...

i suppose a large number of folks use it here... sure seems like it, it is the largest cash crop in the USA, or it was

probably still is... i saw a report some months back about country folk (some call them hillbillies) that were growing the stuff because they can't make their family farms payoff any other way but by growing pot...

it is quite an industry, and our gov't wastes huge amounts of money throwing people into jail for using it when the gov't should be realizing a large revenue through taxation of the crop...

but of course that makes too much sense and outrages the ignorant puritan bible-thumpers we have in this country

permissiveness! legalization would send us to hell, they say... ha! people have already shown their propensity to use pot, it is quite normal for animals to seek out mind altering substances, it truly is part of our nature! (as Casey Stengel used to say, "you could look it up!")

so, if people at every level of society are using pot, why not stop persecuting them and rather tax them instead? there's any number of ways to use the money... how about more sincere attempts at drug treatment programs with easy access in any area of the country?

oh, but i forget, this makes too much sense! why? because i am leaving any moral judgements out of the equation and simply examining the facts.

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 06-28-2000).]

[Cipher13]

Lotsa people smokes pot - so lets legalise it.
Lotsa people kill others - so lets legalise that too while we're at it.
Same thing. If you legalise one thing because everyone does it, then you can't stop at that one thing - it will keep going.
"You legalised pot so why not legalise angeldust?"
And drugs and **** do have an effect on society. Basically they screw it up.
Thats all I have to say on that issue, and there's no point disputing it with me.
I'm just presenting another arguement - personally I don't care. The druggies will die one way or another so I'm ok then.

Cipher13

[DBursey]

It seems to me there's a hell of a difference between smoking pot and using angeldust, or for that matter killing someone, for christ's sake. How you can so blithely equate them is beyond me. "You legalised pot so why not legalise angeldust?"
Well, they legalized alcohol, so why not legalize pot? As wlonh stated, some things are part of our nature. Individuals should be allowed to make certain choices for themselves, provided that their choices do not harm others. U.S. citizens are allowed to own and in certain states carry concealed weapons; they're allowed to consume alcohol, but they're not permitted to smoke pot! Ahhh, give me a break ...

[wlonh]

LOL
willfull ignorance, that is what leads folks to make the sort of colossally dumb remarks equating murder and pot smoking...

obviously a misguided moralist who admits that he/she has blinders on and has also stuck her/his head in the sand! an enlightened individual! NOT!

just incredible that someone can be just plain stupid...

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 06-28-2000).]

[MacNZ]

Um, yeah, so we are stuck talking about pot again. Oh well.......I thought the US got a lot of it's supply from places like Afghanistan etc. I know they get their hard drugs often from foreign agents. Oh, they do grow a lotta pot in the south-east of the states though ey!?

I am not a bible-thumper, I just had bad experiences with the stuff. If these hadn't happened I'd be smoking like a chimney. All my friends do.

+ Pot has good uses. My friend uses it for his asthma. If you wanna legalise it then I suggest getting a darn national vote on it. I think that's wat we are doing here. Democracy works here,does it there?

[yoyo52]

I've made my remarks on drugs elsewhere so I won't repeat here, but I believe Cipher was indicating that the form of the argument is invalid. His example is a reductio ad absurdum, by which he illustrates the fallacy. The problem with reductio ad absurdum as a conterargument is itself illustrated by wlonh's responses. Arguments by analogy never hold much water. Which is perhaps why digital media are so much better than analog media.

This comment brought to you courtesy of many years teaching freshman composition

[This message has been edited by yoyo52 (edited 06-28-2000).]

[wlonh]

MacNZ, pot is grown everywhere in the USA... probably growing in my apartment building!

just because it is a city means nothing, the stuff is everywhere... and there are small towns in this country that were hemp-trading towns, just as some were cotton towns... all perfectly legal and the use was industrial, hemprope etc..

look, i could care less whether peeps puff it or not... i have quit all my bad habits except tobacco, which is undeniably the most addictive drug (thanks again, Surgeon General Koop!) and kills (as does its legal companion, alcohol) far more people than cocaine or heroin!

i just hate to see such insanity about an herb that our founding fathers (USA) cultivated and smoked, for pleasure! it is undeniable historical truth

and throughout history cultures have used cannabis for its intoxicating properties...

peeps, let it alone! be like the Dutch authorities in Amsterdam! be smart, and stop persecuting human nature!

[Cipher13]

Thank you yoyo - I was NOT expressing my opinion (as I said, I don't care), but simply stating the your arguments are invalid, and shaky at best.
Smoke whatever the **** you want, I really don't care.

Cipher13

[wlonh]

a real humanitarian:
"The druggies will die one way or another so I'm ok then."

that about says it all, such prejudice that he wishes them dead, every last one...

maybe we should euthanize them nasty ol' druggies, and hurry the process along?

[Cipher13]

I never said I was a humanitarian. They wanna smoke pot they can reap the consequences. Personally I couldn't care less what happened to them.
And when did I say I wished them dead? How did I even imply that?
You seem to assume a lot, so just remember;
"Assumption is the mother of all f*** ups."
-Steven Segal, Under Siege 2

Cipher13

[ThinkInsane]

A couple of points:

1. I am noticing that all our posts are becoming reefer oriented, except for my clever and well thought out posts. Why is that you bunch of dope fiends?

2. Pot is a glorious thing with many medicinal uses, but I have NEVER EVER heard of it being used as a relief for asthma. Tell your friend to try unfiltered Pal-Mal's, should have about the same helpful effects (which is to say NONE.)

3. If you want to smoke, go ahead and do it. I absolutly encourage it! When I'm running this country, it will be required, so start tokin' away boy-o's!

4. I'm all in favor of legalized murders, given a certain set of rules. I think everyone should be issued two hunting tags, similar to deer tags, in thier life. Once your tags are used, you can't kill anyone anymore. This builds upon my "an armed society is a polite society" theory.

5. "And Hillbillies want to be called 'Sons of the Soil', but it ain't gonna happen" *chuckling*
- Dr. Julius T. Hibbert M.D.
Family Practitioner
Springfield USA

[This message has been edited by ThinkInsane (edited 06-29-2000).]

[wlonh]

Cipher13, if you say that: "druggies will die one way or another so I'm ok then."

you are essentially wishing them dead, because then you will be ok, meaning you are not ok now because they aren't dead

i am starting to think you have fecal matter instead of grey matter...

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 06-29-2000).]

[disectamac]

This one isn't pointed at anyones opinion, it's just my opinion on drugs and dealers.
As far a drug dealers, let them do what they want so long as it doesn't come near my house. Property value, family safety come into mind so I might shoot them myself, tie one to a telephone pole hanging upside down and scrape "dealer" on his forehead with a needle just to make others think twice about selling on my street.
Isn't that the old saying, do what you want, just not in my backyard. I guess that makes me a hypocrite being that I see anything viable as a means of survivial to include selling. If I had to sell I would but I don't.
That goes for all drugs, I guess I might be considered prejudice and a hypocrite but I'm not prejudice in classifying what drugs are worst to sell illegaly. I don't really care what's sold, pot, hash, crack, coke, E, G, NOT IN MY BACK YARD.
I guess my prejudice is with dealers not with the usage of drugs. Hey have a blast with drugs as far as I'm concerened.

[wlonh]

well, no one should think i advocate the use of drugs, unless you mean beer... and then only in large quantities at very few occasions and don't drive of course...

i just think that there's no reason why the per capita rate of incarceration in the USA should be nearly so high... it should make everyone think...

Pot in excess is shown o kill brain cells, and if people want to smoke it, i have no objection. true it has been shown to have some medical uses, therefore it should be only available through presciption. kinda like with morphene.
As far as beer(alcohol) goes.....the same as with pot, if used in small amounts, it has some positive effects, but as always its overdone. and in my opinion from being in a couple of other countries, some of them have adopted this concept of "alcohol-permits", where just like a driving-permit, it can be revoked if rules are violaated. And are only issued to people who meet the age limit,etc...
As far as Smoking(cigarettes and cigars), i see no positive aspect of it, and think that tabacco for the most part should be banned.
Killing......take switzerland for example where no one is allowed to own guns, but every citizen is obligated to defend he country, and will be supplied with weapons if necessary. So what do u end up with ? less school-shooting, less murders.
People argue that they need to defend themselves from the military in their respective country.....yeah right...im sure a couple of shot guns and hand grinades can help a lot against AK47s, stealth bombers, trained professionals, tanks and God knows whatelse.

[yoyo52]

In my book drugs are only a symptom of the disease that leads to the high incarceration rate in the US. An example. I was talking today to a guy who works for the local newspaper and is also one of my students--a "nontraditional student," as we call them--finishing his BA some 25 years after he started it

Anyway, we got to talking about some of his fellow students, one of whom happens to be the daughter of an important lawyer in town. He's important because he's on the school board, he's on the airport board, he's legal counsel to the county, he's best buddies with our state rep, etc.--you get the picture.

So my student tells me that this man's daughter had been caught DUI--had actually had an accident. Did she go to jail? Did she get a fine?

Now imagine the same thing happening to someone who is not a member of ruling class.

The war on drugs in the US is really a class war. Sure a couple of upper middle class guys get caught now and then, but the guns are not aimed at them.

[ThinkInsane]

You're right DL, that's why we kicked ass in Vietnam and the Russkies did so well in Afganistan.

Don't ever underestimate what a few pissed off hillbillies can do to a world power when working from within. If a revolution started in the U.S. tomorrow, do you think the Gov. would use nukes on it's own soil? No, not a chance. Do you also think that a big majority of the U.S. armed forces might be hesitant to take up arms against thier own families? Yep, good chance of that. Imagine Oklahoma City on a larger scale. A well timed and executed plan on a national level. Now add in armed militants to the mix. It would leave this (or any other) country in a shambles and all the stealth bombers in the world won't be able to stop it, at least not at first.

I mean, your absolutly correct. Look, it took no time at all for the mighty British army to disarm a bunch on Irish Nationals known as the IRA. Oops, I forgot, that hasn't happened yet... And just a little warning, don't even start getting all philosophical about Northern Ireland, 'cause until you live there AND have it effect your every day life, you have NO COMMENT on it. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but i accept no armchair quarter-backing on a subject that has had such a major impact on my own life.

[elzinat]

apple wants everything to be perfect before they release it; they want every new product to make us say, "Wow. They've done it again!" -- and we do say it (about once a year). unlike most manufacturers who care about us saying "cool" (every few months).
intel's main business is from processors. motorola doesn't care about the G4's because it's not where there income comes from.
not Everybody in this country smokes pot. (btw, I am new here; I have been reading several threads -- why do SO MANY of them turn into discussions about drugs? and why are they always the same conversations? personally, i think that the governement must know better than us what is good for us (because it's bigger, and has a bigger budget than us, right?--though I guess then this does not apply to billy) so we should all just follow the laws. although if we all just followed the laws there would be a problem: when everyone follows the laws then they are repealed because it seems as though they are no longer necessary, and then bad stuff happens, like floating turnipeyeballs)so if the governement tells us not to smoke pot, i think that every American not only has a right but a duty to disobey civily (ie civil disobedience) and smoke lots of pot, whether they like it or not, but how could anyone not like this stuff? but to say that it is good for asthma is pure BS. smoke of any sort is bad for asthma because the small particles are irritants and they inflame your bronchiols and then air cannot reach the alvioli where oxygen-co2 exchange is supposed to take place, and then you asphyxiate and have to go to the hospital and get injected with steroids. yes i have visited the ER for asthma several times in my life. but seriously, if people just respected simple intelligent rules like not driking/smoking pot and then driving, society would just be better. also, people should not smoke tobacco because it smells bad. and streets full of cigarette butts are ugly. people just should have more respect and now through their trash on the ground and stuff. the real proplem with this society is that everybody has a "screw you" attitude. the US sucks. but in other respects it is a good place. in CA we have some public smoking bans. and even some smokers have told me that they notice that the city streets are cleaner and nicer, and that they in fact approve of the regulations.
and also, we should tax the h*** out of these things. I mean, since so many people are addicted and whatnot, we should take advantage on their dependance on tobacco and gasoline for their cars and increase the taxes hugely. it would generate revenue and it might discourage some people from smoking so much or encourage people to use public transportation. because gas prices in the US are just simply WAY too low.
and we need to repeal the 2nd amendment. it is very obviously obsolete. and TI, your response to DL about Vietnam, etc. well,... that the gov't might not be willing to use its military superiority over the hillbillies (as it was unWilling, not unable, in Vietnam) does not mean that the hillbillies would be able to overpower the US armed forces if they fought back with heart.
I have babbled enough. Now eat me alive.

ps. I love America. not for what she is (yuk!) but for what she could be (if i controlled her!)

[Anthony the PC lover]

I noticed all the people who say the U.S. is the greatest country ever are people who have never left their country.

I noticed all the people who are against pot smoking are the people who never tried it.

I noticed all the people who are against gun ownership are the people who have never had to defend themselves because they live in the American suburbs.


If you got something to say about one of these things, I suggest you learn more about it before you go mouthing off about your opinions. Wlonh and ThinkInsane are some very knowledgable guys and you oughta shutup and listen to what they say. They've been around, and they know whats what. In other words, dont bash pot until you've gotten yourself really high, and dont tell me the U.S. is the best at everything until you've seen the world.


Thats my little scolding to all the underage kids....now carry on with your business

[elzinat]

was that addressed to me?

[Anthony the PC lover]

No, elzinat, it was mostly directed toward Cipher13.

[wlonh]

i have travelled the world fairly extensively.

i have smoked pot, and gave it up many years ago.

i have defended my property with a gun, a sawed-off (legal length) shotgun, while living in a very rural area... i now live in an urban area, New York City (maybe you have heard of it) and thoroughly condemn ownership of handguns... at one time i owned more weapons (including a very nice custom Walther PPK) than i want to admit and those were the days when i had redneck fools to deal with... gimme the inner-city anyday... twenty one years with nary an issue of personal safety, not one!

[wlonh]

the idea that the gov't knows better than us is anti-american at its core... if you can't see that, you are deaf, dumb and blind! WE are the gov't!

and the idea that people or persons in power deserve to be in power simply because they are in power is the saddest remark, the sorriest example of thought i can imagine and i pity you

Hitler was in power, did he deserve to be? i think not, and while i am not sayiing that our gov't and its leaders are fascist, they ain't far from it, and i mean both parties... dems and reps

hyperbole? yes... so what! i am in a hurry at the moment and do not have time for more than hyperbole right now...

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 07-03-2000).]

[elzinat]

I am very sorry. I was writing rather strangely. So strangely, in fact, that I no longer remember or can tell what parts exactly of what I wrote were sarcastic and where I was being sincere. So if I confused people, which I must have, having confused even myself, I apologize. I will try in the future to be more coherent, and separate sarcasm and sincerity into different paragraphs with line breaks between them.

I do not in any way shape or form subscribe to the philosophy of Hobbes' Leviathan. He started with false assumptions and then used crappy logic. I therefore conclude that it is "unlikely" that he is correct. In other words, no I do not actually think that the government knows better than everybody what is good for them. It knows better than some people (as do I). But others (like myself) know better than it. In short, I would never say that the government is always right and mean it. Of course there are people who know better than I do what is good for me. But I never listen to my friends when they tell me to stop playing text-based RPG's. And sometimes the government is right (for instance, I will reiterate that regardless of what I think of drinking and/or smoking pot [neither of which do I have a firm opinion on, btw], I feel very strongly that the government is right in telling people not to drive while intoxicated).

Also, though I have never had to defend my property and myself from rural rednecks, I live in a city (NOT suburbs), and have been in situations (plural) where I really would have liked for the guy opposite me to not have a gun. I myself do not do drugs, but I know a lot of people who do. I knew someone who drove off a cliff while on acid, and I have a friend who drinks alone (16, and I mean he gets drunk alone "because it's more fun than being alone not drunk"), and I know someone who couldn't get a new liver, and I know lots of people who have died of lung cancer.
Also I have been to a half-dozen other countries, mostly in Europe, and I have lived in France for a number of months. And I don't think by any means, that the US or her government is perfect.

I apologize again, and hope this helps any confusion/anger/distress, etc. I may have recklessly caused.

[ThinkInsane]

Geez, you go away for a couple of days and come back to find chaos. I love it. For the record, I understand perfectly that the US gov't was unwilling to go all out in Vietnam. That doesn't mean that the individual soldiers felt the same way. Ask a vet thier opinion on this. My point was that even if the Pres ordered the U.S. Army into the streets of NYC, how many of those soldiers would have second thoughts about opening fire on thier friends and relatives. If that had ever happened when i was in, I can tell you which direction I would be shooting.....

[wlonh]

tin soldiers and Nixon's comin...

four dead in Ohio

[disectamac]

Ahem.....I wouldn't have second thoughts............I'd have after thoughts or at least that's the way I was trained.......

Most others would react differently I guess, in the fashion that TI explained, their own families, friends live in NY. i on the other hand reason with my actions in a much simpler way. If I'm told to squeeze the triggor. there ARE analytical thoughts of course I wouldn't just shoot blindly, but there are no second thoughts. If a massive riot broke out in NYC, well you can't have the city fall apart on one hand and you can't have our military fail on the other hand. If this happens then the whole country is screwed as it will all fall apart, and the ugliest things you could imagine from people will be seen. The worst forms a segregation, racism, violence, robbery, etc will be seen in every city in every state in the whole freakin country and I for one do NOT want to see that happen. SO if I'm told to shoot someone, or a crowd of people, or buildings or cars, or whatever you can think of, than in as fast as humanly possible I'm going to blow it up. NOW if you want to argue about what might happen if I fired on a crowd of people and whatever else you can think of, we can do that after I pull the trigger. If you don't understand this than you don't understand why and how our military is meant to work from our backbone NCO's to the top and all around.

[ThinkInsane]

In this country you have the inherant right to revolt. That is why you have the right to keep and bare arms. That is the reason that you have the right to establish malitias. And that does NOT mean the National Guard, which althugh it is a state militia, it is still an extension of the US Army.

[wlonh]

the general populace of the USA is not Vietnamese... we did not spend decades living in tunnels and eating rats and steeling ourselves against an enemy...

any militia formed by a part of our populace would be slaughtered in no time at all.. never think the US armed services couldn't be convinced that any such indigenous force would be nefarious and should be destroyed...

don't kid yourself... Curly (Three Stooges) said it best: "Moe, Larry... we're trapped like rats!"

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 07-04-2000).]

yup....four dead in Ohio. Anyone who dosent comply is a threat to "freedom", and therefore must pay with his life. A very quiet form of tyrany.

[DBursey]

One might think the topic of this thread could be "Libertarians Unite". Sounds like a real police state you have down there.

[rhino_g3]

What happened here? After reading these posts regarding opinions on pot and other common problems in the world today. I scroll up to the original question, read it again and say, WOW!

[disectamac]

dang rain ruined the firerworks show .....or at least until tommorow night

[wlonh]

well, the Lounge is a very loose place, and is meant to be that way...

i enjoy taking liberties (no reference to any remarks in this thread intended) in the Lounge, but i will try to be more on topic, sorry

mea culpa

(oh and i am in no way a libertarian, nor am i a liberal... i am a democratic secular humanist with_slight_socialistic leanings and a dose of anarchistic tendencies who believes that the noose is getting tighter around all our necks)

[elzinat]

it's a very healthy place to be


ps. this has no meaning except for that with which you may choose to infuse it.

does this mean the thread is closed?

------------------
How do you measure a man?
By how many miles of electrical wire he can strip in a day with his teeth, of course.