[PacHead]

Originally Posted by zerostar

Exactly, lets see what IBM will deliver in the next year, Ill be amazed if they reach another 300MHz

Well, technically, they're not at 2.7 now, since that's overclocked I hear. So they have more to go than just 300 MHZ.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

They're shadier than most and I won't do business with them.

So you have a set scale of shadiness that you wont deal with then?

What about Apple's rip off of Dashboard? Sherlock? Many earlier SW's? How about blatant HW problems the have ignored until they disappeared (the Apple 17" LCDs frying comes to mind, a problem so sever at least 2 3rd parties are offering solutions now, yet apple choose to ignore them all, and delete message off their boards)

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Do you honestly believe Macs haven't been competitive for the last few years?

At the middle and lower levels, no. Apple has had to tack on extras like DVD burners, cool software etc. to make it worth it IMHO. And the OS is amazing.

For that matter, do you honestly believe that Macs will survive the next release of Virtual PC on Windows, which will almost certainly run OSX?

How is that going to happen? Not only will it be illegal... who says that OS X won't require a hard coded rom or something completely different?

IBM had its 3GHz chip, and it would have the mobile chip very soon. I've heard nothing about any shortage of G5 Macs, and as for Microsoft and the XBox, they're turning their attention other places too. One of those places could have been Apple, if only Apple would have allowed it.

Show me the 3GHz chip in a Mac (are you telling me Apple has been sitting on 3GHz chips
?)... that should have been here last year. Where will we be in 2 more years. 3.5GHz? I could care less about raw speed, but x86 just makes sense the more you think about it.

ALSO, the XBox chip isn't even considered a supported CPU by IBM.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Well, technically, they're not at 2.7 now, since that's overclocked I hear. So they have more to go than just 300 MHZ.

To be fair I think Intel did around 400MHz in the last 2 years

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by zerostar

So you have a set scale of shadiness that you wont deal with then?

Yes.


All companies do bad things, Intel is simply worse than most. I don't buy their stuff for the same reasons I won't buy MS products. I consider the two to be in the same league.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Intel is simply worse than most. I don't buy their stuff for the same reasons I won't buy MS products. I consider the two to be in the same league.

Alright, well at least you have choices, a Dual 2.7 would last a good while for someone who is not using it for work related things I guess... Perhaps 4-5 years?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by zerostar

Alright, well at least you have choices, a Dual 2.7 would last a good while for someone who is not using it for work related things I guess... Perhaps 4-5 years?

Probably not. I'll just use my dual 1.42 G4 for another year or so, and in the mean time buy top of the line MP Opteron Linux box, and gradually move everything over to it.

Probably something like this:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/busines...x_day2-12.html

I figure buying a top of the line dual G5, in light of Apple's announcement, would be like buying a premium SDTV.

[zwiebel_]

Good luck to all of ya' jumping ship (for whatever reason). I just hope that two years from now you will not be in the same position again, once you realize the versatility of the new Mac platform.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

It's funny watching the x86 Mac zealots attack the people who simply want to stay with PPC.

Is it possible for you to come to grips with Apple's failure to keep these customers? Can't you understand that some people won't buy an Intel product?


Stop being so insulting. It doesn't get your point across, and only shows your "fanboyness".

Exactly, MacNStein. It's sad and insulting how some people will just blindly follow Apple, no matter what they do and then turn around and ridicule and insult those who actually care, and have legitimate concerns and problems with Apple's actions.

They're the type of people who would blindly follow and applaud Apple if they announced a partnership with Microsoft to merge Mac OS X and Windows.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Exactly, MacNStein. It's sad and insulting how some people will just blindly follow Apple, no matter what they do and then turn around and ridicule and insult those who actually care, and have legitimate concerns and problems with Apple's actions.

They're the type of people who would blindly follow and applaud Apple if they announced a partnership with Microsoft to merge Mac OS X and Windows.

Please... it's a CPU switch. You are disliking something you aren't even sure about. I'm cautiously optimistic. And are YOU saying that I don't care about the Mac platform? If you are, you are dead wrong.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Exactly, MacNStein. It's sad and insulting how some people will just blindly follow Apple, no matter what they do and then turn around and ridicule and insult those who actually care, and have legitimate concerns and problems with Apple's actions.

They're the type of people who would blindly follow and applaud Apple if they announced a partnership with Microsoft to merge Mac OS X and Windows.

Legitimate concerns is one thing. Crying and creating eleventy billion posts about how they feel betrayed are are migrating to Windows or some flavor of Linux is silly.

[theolein]

Originally Posted by Randman

Then give up Macs. No one really cares. For everyone who jumps ship to stay with an outdated and dying architecture, there'll be hundred, at least, giving Windows the boot and coming over to XP.

Sideus, you're sounding like maxximo. Replace PPC with OS9 and it's scary.

Wrong, you clown. YOU CARE. You and all the other little snobs who have been belittling and mocking people who have been quite civil about their future choice of OS and/or hardware.

If you didn't care you wouldn't be insulting sideus like you are.

But I am still totaly confused as to why you care so much. Are you frightened that the Mac will fold if a few isolated individuals like sideus, millenium or myself leave it? Surely you're joking.

Or are you so uncertain about the future of Apple that you need to mob a few lone dissenters in order to gain some false measure of security?

And there I was thinking that Apple was all about Thinking Different?

But what do I see? Idiots making comparisons between a bloody computer and a car. Shows how much you know about both.

And I also see the same morons who were making jokes about Intel cpus not that long ago and making excuses for the Mac's lack of performance by saying that the PPC Mac "was good enough" and that "OSX isn't about speed", now making the same claims that Apple's PR does "Performance units per watt"

WTF are performance units per watt?

The same man who promised you 3GHZ G5s three years ago now and who came up with the Megahertz Myth in order to seel his computers now comes up with Performance per Watt, and you believe it like a child believe in Santa Claus before it turned out that Santa was the dirty old man and a paedophile to boot.

What is it about Steve Jobs and Apple's PR that makes nominally intelligent people stop thinking?

Apple is a great company and Macs are great computers and OSX is one of the best OSes out there, but it doesn't mean that everyone has to like them or at least question why they should be using them.

[theolein]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Oh give it a rest already.

Apple had no choice. IBM was not delivering the goods, that's what this is coming down to. Do you really think that this was an easy decision for Apple? Do you really think that they want to cause all of this upheaval? That they want to risk losing business over the next year or so? That they want to have to ask developers to change their apps? Get real.

Apple's hand has been forced. That's all there is to this.

To be honest Mas, I don't give a flying fsck whether Apple was forced to do it or not. Apple sure as hell doesn't give a flying fsck about my financial situation and I don't care about theirs.

All this insulting and mobbing of people who are switching, for whatever reason, is just childish and above all, it smacks of a giant measure of uncertainty lurking beneath the surface.

What are you all scared of?

All I've seen are some people who've stated their opinions, mostly quite civilly, getting badgered about "crying betrayal" etc to the point where I flipped out and started cursing last night.

I've seen millenium and sideus who prefer the PPC as a hardware platform. MacNstein who prefers AMD to Intel and myself and version (I think) who are basically tired of Apple.

That's about 4 or 5 people.

So again, what are you all frightened of?

Are you scared if dissenting opinion is allowed any room that it might become contagious and that people will then leave the Mac like rats a sinking ship and leave you all alone with your It Just Works™?

Come one, grow up. It's just a few people stating their reasons not to follow Apple's path.

This isn't the USSR where you're forced to do what everyone else does.

[theolein]

Originally Posted by Randman

Legitimate concerns is one thing. Crying and creating eleventy billion posts about how they feel betrayed are are migrating to Windows or some flavor of Linux is silly.

Bullsh¡t. Randman you are full of it. I haven't seen many posts about people crying betrayal. What I have seen is about eleventy billion posts by people like you who for some very weird and perverse reason, seem to fell betrayed because a tiny amount of people don't agree with Apple's path.

Again, I ask you: Why do you care so much anyway? And don't tell me it's becuase of cries of betrayal. Millenium started off by saying he prefers to stay with PPC because he likes the cpu. Is that betrayal????????

Are you insane?

[Randman]

theolin, you're the one who keeps insulting people in every thread. First, you curse out erik then you come back (after saying you're leaving) to make abusive comments.

Why don't you just move on and get a life? You've crossed into troll territory and your boorish behavior is making you seem like a peevish pr1ck.

I don't give a damn if you feel betrayed or not. If you do, move on. Quit insulting others who take umbrage with your viewpoint, which many of us who aren't going on half-cocked see as illogical and irrational.

You are not happy? Fine, then move on. But, if you haven't noticed, this is MacNN, not PpCNN. Personally? I've seen this before when Apple jumped to IBM. I think this time it's more thought out and in the long run will benefit Apple as well as (more importantly) benefit me who has never owned a PC, never plan to and who uses Macs for work and personal stuff.

Other than that, I really have nothing more to say to you. I always thought you had some good views, even if I didn't agree. But in this, you come across as an as$, a rude and insulting one.

So, go ahead and start using the f words and more curses as you did with erik. Then maybe you will be banned from here and you can start off elsewhere with those who share your myopic view of computing.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Please... it's a CPU switch. You are disliking something you aren't even sure about. I'm cautiously optimistic. And are YOU saying that I don't care about the Mac platform? If you are, you are dead wrong.

No, I am disliking something I'm sure I don't like, as sure as I like the Mac over Wintels, which is why I've been a Mac user for over a decade. I don't believe I ever said you didn't care about the Mac, but it's funny how quickly some people here change their tune when Jobs changes his.

I don't follow Jobs. I use the Mac because of the vision, passion and high standards and quality behind it. I happen to disagree with Jobs' latest decision to switch to an inferior CPU, which I believe is one of the core components that has always made the Mac better, and it's wrong to patronize and ridicule those people who think so.

I really believe in the PPC, and its superior design, and people who know more about microprocessors here generally seem to agree. We've spent more than 10 years with the PPC, and even before that we also had a CPU of superior design for its time. To suddenly take this step backwards is unintuitive and shakes my faith in Apple and the Mac.

You think its all about the OS, and the actual hardware doesn't matter. If so, then why welcome the change at all- if it doesn't matter? There could be a piece of cardboard in the CPU's place, for that matter, right?

I think Mac OS X is a great OS, and so far it suits my needs better than any other OS, which is why I'll stick with the Mac for now. I will never go to Windows. Never. But the fact of the matter is that the hardware does matter, and this definitely a step back. If Apple continues to compromise the quality of the Mac, or insists on infringing on my rights with aggressive DRM, I will have to leave the platform as well.

Originally Posted by Randman

Legitimate concerns is one thing. Crying and creating eleventy billion posts about how they feel betrayed are are migrating to Windows or some flavor of Linux is silly.

You know what? Members here are entitled to create as many threads as they like, and post as they wish, as long as they observe the forum rules. To you this whole matter may be silly, but to others, including myself, it is not. It is far from silly. It is quite fundamental and important.

[keyser_soze]

wah wah wah.
Keep on bitching, and we're not going to accept your apologies about how childish you are acting when you come crawling back after apple on intel proves successful.
Go on already, we get it. Just click on that little circle(possibly an X for some of you already) at the top left corner of the screen. No need for fond farewells or long goodbyes. Good times they were indeed, now get on with it. You have a lot of preparation for your new platform of choice. We understand, and we don't mind.
Really, we do.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by keyser_soze

wah wah wah.
Keep on bitching, and we're not going to accept your apologies about how childish you are acting when you come crawling back after apple on intel proves successful.
Go on already, we get it. Just click on that little circle(possibly an X for some of you already) at the top left corner of the screen. No need for fond farewells or long goodbyes. Good times they were indeed, now get on with it. You have a lot of preparation for your new platform of choice. We understand, and we don't mind.
Really, we do.

Hey, Mr. 7 post, Dec 1999, didn't your mother ever tell you not to speak if you don't have anything good or intelligent to say? Your post was of 0 value. You contributed nothing but negativity and the childishness you claim I and others are exhibiting. I applaud you for making my point, sir.

[ShotgunEd]

OK, a few points.

When did Apple say they are dropping PPC support? Who is to say that 10.5 Leopard won't support PPC Macs as well as Intel Macs? 10.4 supports the Pismo, which is what, nearly 5 and a half years old.

Also, people talk about this chip change being regressive. We don't know what Intel processor Apple will be using in their MacTel. We don't even know if they are going to be using exclusively Intel processors. The 2 year time frame Apple has given is, as far as I understand, not a timetable for chip transition, but a timetable for chip independance for OSX and its 3rd party software. There will be an Intel based Mac, there may also be a PowerPC based Mac released subsequently. Universal Binaries are handy things.

And about IBM not being able to deliver 3GHz G5s, yes they are going to be used in XBOX360, but that is one chip, with no roadmap for speed bumps. Apple needs a chip that will get faster over a number of revisions. The only revisions IBM will make will be as regards manufacturing process.

I started using Apple Macs because the OS was superior to the alternatives I had tried. I continue to use Macs because theres nothing that comes close to OSX, and the next computer I'll buy will be a Mac, because it'll run the latest and greatest OS available. I'm of course assuming that Longhorn will be the big pile of dung that it is anticipated to be.

[keyser_soze]

Gabriel, I was actually talking to Theolein and the others leaving the platform, but I don't mind including you in that statement if that's what you want. I'll stop posting negatively when all naysayers leaving apple stop complaining in 400 different threads and actually leave. This place is a mess right now.
Didn't your dad teach you how to be a man? Actions speak louder than words.
Those of us staying here might have some doubts about the future of apple, but we are indeed staying. Those that plan to leave could do so with dignity and just leave. Don't stand in the door yelling how we're all fools and expect us to take you seriously for long. Others will come and others will go. Just get out of the way so MacNN can move on.

[zerostar]

I think it is a bit silly to make your decision 12 months to 2 years early. (Except if you despise Intel, then ok)

As far as Inferior Technology. Tell the person who buys a 3.2GHz Dual Core 6+Hr Battery PowerBook next year that they got inferior technology to the 1.5Ghz 3 year old G4 that would have never been updated significantly in at least another 2 years.

Nothing against PPC, it was a great chip, it is a great architecture, it has been way ahead many times, we don't know the REAL reasons for the switch but the PPC's very future was surely a decisive factor, couple that with how fast Mac OS and the Native Apps are ALREADY running on Intel and the switch could have been made 2 years ago.

What we do know: In around 1 year there will be a sweet Powerbook that is solid, fast and will be a great performer for hopefully 6+ hours.

In around 2 years we will have a pro machine running a chip architecture that probably hasn't even been fabbed yet, so complaining about it now seems a bit early.

We still have time to see where PPC goes, but with what IBM has on their plate I assume 1 real update then a whole bunch of nothing, but I would love to see 3.0 - 3.5 next January in the PowerMac's, I guess time will tell.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by keyser_soze

Those of us staying here might have some doubts about the future of apple, but we are indeed staying.

Exactly, and those of us who base 90% of our income on Macs and sole application that only Apple provides obviously DO see the risks involved. I see a big big risk, but I think it will all work out and Apple will have a lot to gain in the coming years.

For now I pine for the day I can run Motion on a Dual Itanium or similar with an ATI Fire GL PCI-E card, talk about real-time.

If this all doesn't work out in 4-5 years, there is always Windows for me.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

No, I am disliking something I'm sure I don't like, as sure as I like the Mac over Wintels, which is why I've been a Mac user for over a decade. I don't believe I ever said you didn't care about the Mac, but it's funny how quickly some people here change their tune when Jobs changes his.

How do you know you don't like Intel if you have never used a Mac on Intel. I think your blinded by anti-Intel sentiments. I've never cared for Intel all that much, but this seems logical. I've been on the platform for over 20+ years... and we have ALWAYS been fighting an uphill battle with CPUs.

I don't follow Jobs... but I do listen to where Apple is going and reconsider my position on technologies when presented with change unlike those that run around crying that the sky is falling.

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

I don't follow Jobs. I use the Mac because of the vision, passion and high standards and quality behind it. I happen to disagree with Jobs' latest decision to switch to an inferior CPU, which I believe is one of the core components that has always made the Mac better, and it's wrong to patronize and ridicule those people who think so.

Correct, it IS wrong to patronize and ridicule those people, but at the same time they open themselves up to ridicule if they blindly hate Intel. You have no confidence in Apple's ability to take Intel chips and constructively use them in their hardware. I DO.

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

I really believe in the PPC, and its superior design, and people who know more about microprocessors here generally seem to agree. We've spent more than 10 years with the PPC, and even before that we also had a CPU of superior design for its time. To suddenly take this step backwards is unintuitive and shakes my faith in Apple and the Mac.

I think EVERYONE knows that PPC is a superior architecture... I haven't seen ONE post saying that x86 is superior. That being said, I can show you information indicating that x86 is faster... and has mobile options... is faster at the lower ends (where the G4 lives today) etc. etc.

The fact that Apple is still selling a G4 desktop (the eMac) two years after the introduction of the G5 says volumes. You can cry "superior system" until you are blue in the face, but business is business and IBM hasn't been able to deliver the goods. The G5 is a marketing nightmare. How do you sell laptops without the "G5"... you know... laptops where 1/2 of the market is going. I see this move as a move for the future, and Intel has some big ideas for mobile processing.

You think its all about the OS, and the actual hardware doesn't matter. If so, then why welcome the change at all- if it doesn't matter? There could be a piece of cardboard in the CPU's place, for that matter, right?

You are once again putting words in many people's mouths. Who EVER said "Hardware doesn't matter?" I think what most people are saying is "If Apple can make an x86 box that's as good as their PPC offerings, there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

I think Mac OS X is a great OS, and so far it suits my needs better than any other OS, which is why I'll stick with the Mac for now. I will never go to Windows. Never. But the fact of the matter is that the hardware does matter, and this definitely a step back. If Apple continues to compromise the quality of the Mac, or insists on infringing on my rights with aggressive DRM, I will have to leave the platform as well.

You don't know that they have compromised. I'll wait for the end product before making that decision which you seem to have already made. It may be "technological" step back, but it may very well be a business/solutions/marketing/mobile/software step forward.

You know what? Members here are entitled to create as many threads as they like, and post as they wish, as long as they observe the forum rules. To you this whole matter may be silly, but to others, including myself, it is not. It is far from silly. It is quite fundamental and important.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I feel you are wrong. You are making mountains out of mole hills. In the end (2-3 years down the road) I see the Mac being as strong if not stronger than it is now. Intel has consistently been able to trump the offerings from IBM in terms of speed and price.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by zerostar

Exactly, and those of us who base 90% of our income on Macs and sole application that only Apple provides obviously DO see the risks involved. I see a big big risk, but I think it will all work out and Apple will have a lot to gain in the coming years.

For now I pine for the day I can run Motion on a Dual Itanium or similar with an ATI Fire GL PCI-E card, talk about real-time.

If this all doesn't work out in 4-5 years, there is always Windows for me.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by keyser_soze

Gabriel, I was actually talking to Theolein and the others leaving the platform, but I don't mind including you in that statement if that's what you want. I'll stop posting negatively when all naysayers leaving apple stop complaining in 400 different threads and actually leave. This place is a mess right now.
Didn't your dad teach you how to be a man? Actions speak louder than words.
Those of us staying here might have some doubts about the future of apple, but we are indeed staying. Those that plan to leave could do so with dignity and just leave. Don't stand in the door yelling how we're all fools and expect us to take you seriously for long. Others will come and others will go. Just get out of the way so MacNN can move on.

Some Mac users here are understandably upset with this move, and have legitimate concerns and reasons to be so. You are within all your rights to civilly argue those points and disagree, but you have no right to insult and ridicule those people. If it is true that some people have become uncivil, then act according to your beliefs and do not be uncivil back, but treat others as you wish to be treated, do not fuel the fire.

Yes, there is a lot of activity on these boards right now, pertaining to the Intel transition. But this is understandable because of the technological and social/political significance of this move. It will eventually settle, but if people continue ridiculing and insulting one another, a lot of people will wind up angry at each other even after.

As for actions speaking louder than words-- if that were true here, then you have even less reason to "speak". Unfortunately that doesn't seem relevant in a virtual discussion forum in cyber-space completely composed of text and graphics. Talk and discuss is what people do in a forum, to ask people not to do so because you simply don't like their opinion would be contrary to a forum's purpose.

I sense much anger and resentment in your post. And, I don't understand why, or why fellow Mac users have to treat each other this way. If you don't like these threads, then simply do not participate in them, or do so civilly. Because someone else is uncivil does not give you the right to be so. On that note, I also ask that we all try to treat each other correctly.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

I also ask that we all try to treat each other correctly.

On that I agree with you. Perhaps I was harsh and if so, I apologize. I posted it shortly after someone else cursed and insulted for no reason (I'm at least the second person this person has been verbally abusive to in the past two days). Emotions are running high.

Originally Posted by zerostar

I think it is a bit silly to make your decision 12 months to 2 years early. (Except if you despise Intel, then ok)

As far as Inferior Technology. Tell the person who buys a 3.2GHz Dual Core 6+Hr Battery PowerBook next year that they got inferior technology to the 1.5Ghz 3 year old G4 that would have never been updated significantly in at least another 2 years.

Nothing against PPC, it was a great chip, it is a great architecture, it has been way ahead many times, we don't know the REAL reasons for the switch but the PPC's very future was surely a decisive factor, couple that with how fast Mac OS and the Native Apps are ALREADY running on Intel and the switch could have been made 2 years ago.

What we do know: In around 1 year there will be a sweet Powerbook that is solid, fast and will be a great performer for hopefully 6+ hours.

In around 2 years we will have a pro machine running a chip architecture that probably hasn't even been fabbed yet, so complaining about it now seems a bit early.

We still have time to see where PPC goes, but with what IBM has on their plate I assume 1 real update then a whole bunch of nothing, but I would love to see 3.0 - 3.5 next January in the PowerMac's, I guess time will tell.

Well said.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

How do you know you don't like Intel if you have never used a Mac on Intel. I think your blinded by anti-Intel sentiments.

One of the reasons I love the Mac is because of it's superior hardware architecture. Even the simple observation of a lack of BIOS text at startup changes how one perceives the Mac, and adds to its personality. Things like this, as well as other deeper technological and non-technological details is why I prefer Apple/Mac hardware to Intel.

Also, I've always believed Apple to be a more passionate and ethically responsible company than Intel, though that perception has been gradually changing. I also believe Microsoft to be a most unethical company dangerous to innovation. Even if M$ made a great product, I would not buy or use it, because I have ethical concerns about the company and I don't want its power to increase (even though I am only one, it is the principal of the matter). Similarly (though not as deeply) have I felt about Intel.

Intel is the company that touts clock-rate over efficiency, compromises on its design for marketing purposes. I always saw Apple (IBM, and formally Motorola, too) as the kind of company who did things right, who wouldn't compromise on a product's true potential to make it more marketable, in part because it's customers believed and knew better.

Correct, it IS wrong to patronize and ridicule those people, but at the same time they open themselves up to ridicule if they blindly hate Intel. You have no confidence in Apple's ability to take Intel chips and constructively use them in their hardware. I DO.

I respect the way you've answered my post. You disagree with me, but you haven't ridiculed or insulted me. I have no problem with that at all.

The fact that Apple is still selling a G4 desktop (the eMac) two years after the introduction of the G5 says volumes.

Interestingly enough, my main (and fastest) machine is an eMac, and I have no problems with its speed.

You are once again putting words in many people's mouths. Who EVER said "Hardware doesn't matter?" I think what most people are saying is "If Apple can make an x86 box that's as good as their PPC offerings, there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

Well, several people have claimed that the CPU is merely a "component" and not all that important. I was just making a point, and disagreeing with this.

You don't know that they have compromised. I'll wait for the end product before making that decision which you seem to have already made. It may be "technological" step back, but it may very well be a business/solutions/marketing/mobile/software step forward.

In my opinion, if it is "technological" then Apple has compromised. If you tell me that there was no other way and that otherwise the Mac would have died in a few years, well then the compromise is understandable. Indeed, this may have been the case. I do not know. But, it is still a compromise, and people have a right to be upset at this, especially on a platform that prides itself on its superior software and hardware technology.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I feel you are wrong. You are making mountains out of mole hills. In the end (2-3 years down the road) I see the Mac being as strong if not stronger than it is now. Intel has consistently been able to trump the offerings from IBM in terms of speed and price.

I don't believe this is a trivial matter. It involves a lot of factors and work. But, believe me, I hope you are right, and that the Mac will survive and even become stronger. Even if that were so, I would still lament the loss of the PPC. But, I don't want to see (what's left of) the Mac die, either. Let us hope you are right.

[esXXI]

This thread, in fast forward:

"We're not going to support the x86 transition! *Waves banner*"
"Oh my god, hope!!"
"You're going to use Linux because of a CPU change..?"
"Yeah! Apple broke my heart! *Pining, weeping, wailing, thrashing of limbs*"
"Then stop whining and leave?"
"Oh my god! Stop hassling me you zealot!"
Line 3 through 6 then repeats.

I'm waiting for someone to set up a "PPC Mac Only" forum so we don't have to put up with this every day for the next two years.

[Randman]

Ppcnn.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by esXXI

I'm waiting for someone to set up a "PPC Mac Only" forum so we don't have to put up with this every day for the next two years.

Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea-- Your wish has come true!

[Stratus Fear]

Originally Posted by Millennium

It's in the XBox 360.

If you don't think the next-gen consoles don't require a laptop-capable chip on account of the small size, you're insane.

So, if we're talking about small consoles, let's take the Gamecube. Ever seen the heatsink inside that thing? It's pretty big, and it wouldn't fit in a PowerBook. I highly doubt that chips capable of laptop thermal requirements are required for the next gen systems. I mean, you've heard about the kind of thermal output the cell in the PS3 has, and that's definitely no laptop chip.

I think you're grabbing stuff out of your butt to prove your point here. I don't buy it.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

One of the reasons I love the Mac is because of it's superior hardware architecture. Even the simple observation of a lack of BIOS text at startup changes how one perceives the Mac, and adds to its personality. Things like this, as well as other deeper technological and non-technological details is why I prefer Apple/Mac hardware to Intel.

Again, you are assuming that it is going to use BIOS, have an ugly start up screen, etc. etc. Feel free to criticize when a shipping system has any of these.

Better does not always equal faster... and this industry is run by speed.

Also, I've always believed Apple to be a more passionate and ethically responsible company than Intel, though that perception has been gradually changing. I also believe Microsoft to be a most unethical company dangerous to innovation. Even if M$ made a great product, I would not buy or use it, because I have ethical concerns about the company and I don't want its power to increase (even though I am only one, it is the principal of the matter). Similarly (though not as deeply) have I felt about Intel.

I wish I didn't have to buy Microsoft products, but I live in a world where Microsoft is the standard and I need to make money. Without Office on Mac, I would be forced to Windows. I would keep my Mac at home, but I would be forced to buy a PC for compatibility reasons.

Intel is the company that touts clock-rate over efficiency, compromises on its design for marketing purposes. I always saw Apple (IBM, and formally Motorola, too) as the kind of company who did things right, who wouldn't compromise on a product's true potential to make it more marketable, in part because it's customers believed and knew better.

Many of those things have been changing inside of Intel. Many technical writers are even saying they are "starting to get it right" technologically. Intel is also bound to an industry that doesn't like change. I'm sure Intel would love to abandon legacy components, but the industry won't have it. I guess I would rather switch to Intel than hold my high moral technological ground and see the Mac erode into oblivion.

I respect the way you've answered my post. You disagree with me, but you haven't ridiculed or insulted me. I have no problem with that at all.

Sorry... I'm not trying to be difficult, I simply get upset when people criticize a move without knowing all the facts. We don't know what Intel on Apple has in store for us. So far, the speed thing seems positive (Single P4 outpacing a dual g5... interesting)

Interestingly enough, my main (and fastest) machine is an eMac, and I have no problems with its speed.

I ALSO think the eMac is a great little machine... but it's using 2+ year old chip technology. But trying placing a low end P4 next to a G4 and the two are night and day.

Well, several people have claimed that the CPU is merely a "component" and not all that important. I was just making a point, and disagreeing with this.

It's a component of the overall system.

In my opinion, if it is "technological" then Apple has compromised. If you tell me that there was no other way and that otherwise the Mac would have died in a few years, well then the compromise is understandable. Indeed, this may have been the case. I do not know. But, it is still a compromise, and people have a right to be upset at this, especially on a platform that prides itself on its superior software and hardware technology.

I don't think that Apple would have died... we would still be here, but the "switchers" would eventually see that PC laptops are 2X faster and have battery lives of 3x longer... and cost less. If you take the CPU out of the equation, I think people will be willing to pay a premium for a Mac.

Considering more people are buying laptops, this becomes even more of an issue.

I don't believe this is a trivial matter. It involves a lot of factors and work. But, believe me, I hope you are right, and that the Mac will survive and even become stronger. Even if that were so, I would still lament the loss of the PPC. But, I don't want to see (what's left of) the Mac die, either. Let us hope you are right.

I'm going to lament the PPC... but it didn't deliver. It would be one thing if we were seeing portable G5 systems and 3.5+ GHz G5s rolling off the lines with rumors of the G6... but it's been 2 years and we are still without a portable G5 solution.

I'm starting to think Apple gave up trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole.

[Zimphire]

Too bad it doesn't run any Adobe Products...

It's useless to me.

[darwin23]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Indeed. Who cares if one Linux distributor throws a hissy fit? I used to play with Linux in pre-OS X days, now there's just no need.

It's not a hissy fit.

YDL ports x86 linux to PPC linux, that's what they do. They won't be porting x86 linux to Intel-Based Macs because.......................You get the point.

BTW, YDL SUCKS, more often than not after you install you spend weeks finding and fixing all the broken dependancies. May as well compile from source to start with it will only take a few days.

Paid versions of YDL maybe better, but I think they make their $Money$ "supporting" linuxPPC for their PAYING customers. You, I, or anyone could do what they do (if we know how to support linux, IT for Linux) as they sell service.

YDL is RedHat PPC. They do not want to go into competition with their partner.

[theolein]

Originally Posted by Randman

theolin, you're the one who keeps insulting people in every thread. First, you curse out erik then you come back (after saying you're leaving) to make abusive comments.

Why don't you just move on and get a life? You've crossed into troll territory and your boorish behavior is making you seem like a peevish pr1ck.

I don't give a damn if you feel betrayed or not. If you do, move on. Quit insulting others who take umbrage with your viewpoint, which many of us who aren't going on half-cocked see as illogical and irrational.

You are not happy? Fine, then move on. But, if you haven't noticed, this is MacNN, not PpCNN. Personally? I've seen this before when Apple jumped to IBM. I think this time it's more thought out and in the long run will benefit Apple as well as (more importantly) benefit me who has never owned a PC, never plan to and who uses Macs for work and personal stuff.

Other than that, I really have nothing more to say to you. I always thought you had some good views, even if I didn't agree. But in this, you come across as an as$, a rude and insulting one.

So, go ahead and start using the f words and more curses as you did with erik. Then maybe you will be banned from here and you can start off elsewhere with those who share your myopic view of computing.

I lost my temper with erik because of his flamebaiting me because of my decision. I lost my temper with you too, because you went out of your way to attack every one, not just me, who was unhappy about the proceedings. Who the hell are you to tell people what to be happy about and what not? And your opinion is your opinion. It is not the Truth™. Just like everyone else's opinion, inclusing mine.

And, as I have often stated, I have no dislike of Apple, Macs or OSX and will continue to follow what is happening. I am currently still a Mac user, and I'll use my Powerbook as long as I can.

You won't stop me from stating my opinion, thank god.

[wy4tt]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Probably something like this:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/busines...x_day2-12.html

Looks like a nice rig. I've been building AMD systems for years for family and friends. I even use one for a desktop. I've got a mobile CPU that's overclocked to the moon in my desktop. They run cool, fast, and efficient. And at $80, these chips are cheap. Way more bang/buck than Intel. The problem I have is with the Powerbook line. My 15" has very poor battery life and with less power than Centrinos. In that regard, I really don't care what company gets the job done, as long as it gets done. I hope they work out for Apple.

[MrForgetable]

Originally Posted by zerostar

I doubt Apple would allow this.

I doubt Apple would allow it too, but them hackers these days...