[Salty]

Hey all, some of you may remember the post I made a while ago asking about what I should be charging for graphic design work? Well, I just finished another project as a sort of, make sure I can pull things off without any problems at the size the guy wants it done at.

I just have a few questions. The guy wants these 8 by 10 foot wall murals. I'll be drawing them in photoshop in this sort of style:


My big questions are, if I'm doing something that big, what should my DPI be? I imagine I should actually be lowering it since it won't really be looked at up close much I don't think.
Also, where does one get this sort of thing printed? I imagine you'd go to a professional printer. Does anyone have any idea what my client can be expecting to have to pay for that sort of thing?

[Mark Larr]

100dpi is fine for murals that big.

However 8'x10' is going to be unbelievably expensive.

About $500-$600 apiece.

[Buckaroo]

You need to find someone with a color injet plotter. Standard plotters are 36" wide, but for a lot of bucks you can get the whole 8 feet in (there are some plotters that are huge, I'm not sure what width they are but they are huge).

If you can deal with two 36" each 10 feet long, then it will save you a lot of money. You will have to put one up and then the other. You need to look for someone in the plotter sign business.

I use 36" plotters all the time, but I couldn't do it for you. It really won't be that bad if you can go 36". Depending on the material that you plot on, I'd say approx. $300, maybe a little more. Just my guess.

[Salty]

Wow... pricey

36 inches? And 10 feet long? Wow I would have thought they'd do it in more standard dimensions. But OK, so they'd be three feet tall and 10 feet long? And how much do you think one of those panels should cost? And nobody knows the name of any good shops in the LA area?

[Rampant1]

You got a great large format printer in your back yard, AAA Flag & Banner.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Rampant1 

You got a great large format printer in your back yard, AAA Flag & Banner.

Rampant have you used them?

[Railroader]

$300-500 is CHEAP!

I charge $350 for 20" x 30".

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Rampant1 

You got a great large format printer in your back yard, AAA Flag & Banner.

I lasted about 15 seconds on that sight. Ouch.

[Salty]

For the record, AAA Flag & Banner has gotta be the worst name for a printer ever!

I estimated him 20 hours worth of work per illustration, and he didn't seem to have a problem with that. Which I guess makes sense since I told him what I should apparently be charging. So I don't imagine he's going to have a problem with me giving myself a lot of time to work on each of the pieces.
I guess the problem is I keep thinking about this from my perspective and I have trouble remembering and the interior of a shop is typically worth a good deal of cash.

[Rampant1]

Originally Posted by Salty 

Rampant have you used them?

Yes, but it has been a year or maybe longer. Used to purchase from them for a project every once in awhile before we started doing digital work in house. Tossed their name out as they are local for you and the largest width we can do in house at the company I work for is just under six feet.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Salty 

For the record, AAA Flag & Banner has gotta be the worst name for a printer ever!

It puts them first in the phone book. A lot of people start at the top of the yellow pages and work their way down.

My step-grandfather had a pool company called "Ability Pools" for that very reason.

[zro]

That's some awesome bg music there. They seem more like a sign shop to me.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by zro 

That's some awesome bg music there. They seem more like a sign shop to me.

That's essentially what Salty is making. He is just doing the design work himself. This happens a lot in the sign business.

[Salty]

Rampant, some people have suggested multiple panels, do you have any idea if it would be less expensive to go with a company like your own and do more than one Panel? The graphics are basically just going to be on the walls, and probably won't be looked at up close, so I don't think it's a huge deal if there's a seam or two.

[andi*pandi]

Or you could design them as a triptych intentionally, and not worry about the seams at all. Space them out even.

ArtLex on Triptychs

[Salty]

That's an interesting idea. I'll mention it to my client

[Rampant1]

Originally Posted by Salty 

Rampant, some people have suggested multiple panels, do you have any idea if it would be less expensive to go with a company like your own and do more than one Panel? The graphics are basically just going to be on the walls, and probably won't be looked at up close, so I don't think it's a huge deal if there's a seam or two.

Depends on the substrate. Probably not a good idea on artist canvas or other heavy fabric. If a woven fabric is what your client is after a dye-sublimation print without seams is the way to go. A smooth banner vinyl is probably best for doing a multi-part mural with seams.

If your customer is interested in something that's a little more high end like direct print to brushed aluminum or plexiglas or just about anything else I could help you with that for sure. We've got a digital flatbed that does gorgeous work on stuff up to 5' x 10' x 1.5" thick.

Edit - We're not local, located halfway 'cross the country in old Saint Lou'...

[zro]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

That's essentially what Salty is making. He is just doing the design work himself. This happens a lot in the sign business.

What? Being called a print shop?

[iMOTOR]

A&I is an excellent shop in Los Angeles.
Would be about $550.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by zro 

What? Being called a print shop?

Your intelligence must be far superior to mine. I have no idea what you're rambling about.

[Salty]

It's pretty bad that I'll probably be charging him less for the graphic than for the print job eh?

[Salty]

By the way, what happened to Doofy? I thought he was sure that I should just give up on things, since this client obviously wouldn't actually want work done for them. They were simply being nice and placating. Right, Wasnt' that what you said Doofers?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Salty 

It's pretty bad that I'll probably be charging him less for the graphic than for the print job eh?

Yes. I feel for any design people they work with after you.

Originally Posted by Salty 

By the way, what happened to Doofy? I thought he was sure that I should just give up on things, since this client obviously wouldn't actually want work done for them. They were simply being nice and placating. Right, Wasnt' that what you said Doofers?

Your "work" is certainly nothing special. You trace photographs. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut eventually.

[Salty]

Cough, bitchy.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Salty 

By the way, what happened to Doofy? I thought he was sure that I should just give up on things, since this client obviously wouldn't actually want work done for them. They were simply being nice and placating. Right, Wasnt' that what you said Doofers?

Originally Posted by Salty 

Cough, bitchy.

Indeed.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Yes. I feel for any design people they work with after you.

Your "work" is certainly nothing special. You trace photographs. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut eventually.

By the way, if about a quarter of the time I spent on that piece let's say was actually doing the black lines. And after that point I didn't really look at the original photo much aside from reference for colors and where I should be dodging and burning for lighting. How much tracing is that? What makes that piece impressive especially if you look at the high resolution version, is not necessarily the shapes, but how I managed to bring in a lot of texture through out the piece to make the jeans, T-shirt, jacket, hat, steps, pavement, etc come to life. It's easy to critique someone else when you have no work for anyone else to critique as carelessly as you do.
So, if you're going to degrade my work, why not post some of your own to show off how much better than me you are?

And my comment to Doofy was about the fact that he said this person wasn't really interested. Which is funny, cause one would think that they wouldn't be telling me when they should be able to get the photos taken, and asking whether or not I knew of any printers in their area. I mean, seems like an awful lot to do for just playing nice.

[iREZ]

its not design, its illustration

its interesting i guess, but definitely nothing special

contour lines, not 'black lines'

technical stuff doesn't mean good design, just means good technical work

and yes...you do all designers (including yourself) a disservice by charging cheap

i've had nothing but positive experiences with A&I (never printed anything this large)...if i were you i'd take andi pandi's advice and cut it up a bit unless your client doesn't mind paying for the amount. g'luck.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Salty 

By the way, if about a quarter of the time I spent on that piece let's say was actually doing the black lines. And after that point I didn't really look at the original photo much aside from reference for colors and where I should be dodging and burning for lighting. How much tracing is that? What makes that piece impressive especially if you look at the high resolution version, is not necessarily the shapes, but how I managed to bring in a lot of texture through out the piece to make the jeans, T-shirt, jacket, hat, steps, pavement, etc come to life. It's easy to critique someone else when you have no work for anyone else to critique as carelessly as you do.
So, if you're going to degrade my work, why not post some of your own to show off how much better than me you are?

Uh, no. It is not impressive. You actually spend 25% of your time tracing the photos!??!?! WOW!!! I would have thought it would be like 2-3%!!!

My critiques are not careless. Unlike you, I applied and was accepted to an art school, CCSCAD http://www.ccscad.edu/ I chose not to go simply due to money issues.

I do have a success photography business which is an art in itself. I find photography more challenging than oil and water color painting. I am also a member of the National Association of Photoshop Professionals. http://www.photoshopuser.com/

Why don't you ask Roger Ebert for the latest movies he's made? Here's a newsflash: you don't have to actually make something to be critical of it. I do have artistic talents and have some artist education. I just chose to use my artistic talents elsewhere. You certainly won't catch me tracing a digital photo with photoshop.

Originally Posted by Salty 

And my comment to Doofy was about the fact that he said this person wasn't really interested. Which is funny, cause one would think that they wouldn't be telling me when they should be able to get the photos taken, and asking whether or not I knew of any printers in their area. I mean, seems like an awful lot to do for just playing nice.

No, Doofy's comment was much kinder than you think. He was pointing out a pride issue he sees you having. It seems to have been highly accurate as you are dragging it out and trying to rub it in his face. Very humble of you. Galatians 6:3

[Salty]

Why the heck would I apply for a design school if I'm already in school for something else? If I've determined this isn't the direction I want to head in as a career why the heck would I try going to school for it? Especially when I have people asking me to do work for them? Quite frankly you seem more concerned with making malicious comments than you are with actually having a supportable argument. Then again who needs to make sense when your sole motive is to be unkind to someone? And please, don't throw Bible verses behind your posts, I'd hate to have people think that your attitude is somehow justified by Scripture.

[brassplayersrock²]

hell salty, i go to school for music education so that i can teach. but i also want to go to school for marine biology or astronomy or even both. i want to because those things interest me. btw salty, your sig, and that picture, well okay, tracing above, they suck beyond belief. why? because 1) they're ugly as hell. 2) there is no imagination to them, and 3) they're to personal, it seems like your making them for something that you would like, not what others would. that's why so many people who flip houses suck at it because they put in their taste into the house, and not everybody has the same tastes


-a

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Salty 

By the way, what happened to Doofy? I thought he was sure that I should just give up on things, since this client obviously wouldn't actually want work done for them. They were simply being nice and placating. Right, Wasnt' that what you said Doofers?

Page me when you have photos of the fat lady singing.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Salty 

Why the heck would I apply for a design school if I'm already in school for something else? If I've determined this isn't the direction I want to head in as a career why the heck would I try going to school for it? Especially when I have people asking me to do work for them? Quite frankly you seem more concerned with making malicious comments than you are with actually having a supportable argument. Then again who needs to make sense when your sole motive is to be unkind to someone? And please, don't throw Bible verses behind your posts, I'd hate to have people think that your attitude is somehow justified by Scripture.

It looks like you are trying to misunderstand my post on purpose. I would NEVER suggest you go to an art school.

The verse is highly applicable.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Page me when you have photos of the fat lady singing.

Well your mom did book an appointment for photos next week... so give me a couple days after the photos are taken and I should have something to show

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Salty 

Well your mom did book an appointment for photos next week... so give me a couple days after the photos are taken and I should have something to show

You're calling my mum fat?

You just brought yourself a world of hassle.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Salty 

Well your mom did book an appointment for photos next week... so give me a couple days after the photos are taken and I should have something to show

Why are you going to a bible college?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Why are you going to a bible college?

He's going to a Bible college because everyone else hates him. They don't like him much at the college either but they're too polite to say anything much about it because, hey, they're nice people at Bible college. So he likes it there - less resistance and a nice safe place in which to be an asshat.

And Salty's main drive is to have his own church so he can have a bunch of people at his beck and call who he thinks will look up to him - something which nobody does at the moment because he's a self-absorbed talentless asshat. The captive audience effect, which he needs and yearns for because he's grossly dysfunctional in everyday social situations.

[brassplayersrock²]

note self: don't make fun of doofy's family. oh and salty, you seem to respond to most people posts, how about responding to mine?

-a

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock 

note self: don't make fun of doofy's family.

Dude, SECONDED!!!

Doofy:

[IceEnclosure]

ror

[brassplayersrock²]

did you roar?

-a

[IceEnclosure]

it's the new lol

[brassplayersrock²]

oh, alrighty. it's the new lol then. i like

[MindFad]

ror

[brassplayersrock²]

let the games begin!

oh, and be sure that Josh sees this as well