[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I just spent the day looking into VoIP for home use as I don't use my home line all that much. I am not talking about services that make you talk through your computer but rather just hook up an adapter to your home lines.

AFAIK the only one available for me right now is:
http://www.vonage.com/

After carefully reading the website and calling them I decided against it for the following reasons:

1) Setup charges, shipping charges and disconnect charges (first year will work out to basically no savings)
2) On the basic plan they actually bill you for LOCAL calls which is ridiculous.
3) If you have your line forwarded to your cellphone even answering on your cellphone (or any other phone) will still count as minutes. Insane.
4) Reliability and quality not as good as home line.
5) 20 days to transfer your home number.

My local phone company also discounts me for every service I have with them. Currently I have Satellite, home line and internet with them. Getting rid of my phone line with them will bring my other services up.

Since I don't use long distance much if at all there isn't any cost savings with only a couple minor technical advantages. Things might change when my phone company offers the same services.

[dreilly1]

I currently have Vonage as an inexpensive second line for when I work at home.
(If you do finally decide on Vonage, PM me your E-mail address and I'll get you the referral discount!)

The thing I like about it is that can not just do forwarding, but "simultaneous ring" also. So when I get a call on that line, it also rings my work line, and if I don't answer, my work voice mail answers.

The call quality is not so hot: people often complain that they have trouble hearing me on the other side of the call. I think I have a dodgy phone adaptor. I should call Motorola about it one of these days....

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by dreilly1

The thing I like about it is that can not just do forwarding, but "simultaneous ring" also. So when I get a call on that line, it also rings my work line, and if I don't answer, my work voice mail answers.

That is what attracted me to it also until i found out no matter where you pick it up it counts as vonage time. Odd.

[Mastrap]

There's another similar service available in Toronto, cheaper and less hassle. But I can't remember the name and the bookmark is on my other tower at home. I'll post it later.

Also, check out Phone Gnome: http://www.phonegnome.com
No monthly fees and very cheap calls.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

There's another similar service available in Toronto, cheaper and less hassle. But I can't remember the name and the bookmark is on my other tower at home. I'll post it later.

Please do

[budster101]

VOIP SUXXORS. Anyone who sells you on that is a lying bag of sh it.

[Kerrigan]

Frankly it sounds like crap, and home lines are quite cheap and reliable so there is little incentive to switch.

edit: Another thing about VoIP is that it just seems like yet another non-standardized technology.. These days we have so many conflicting formats and DRM and compatibility issues that it is nice to have one thing which I'm paying for that "just works".

[Scifience]

I have Speakeasy VoIP over my Speakeasy DSL line. It costs $23.95 a month, sounds just as good as a regular landline (both according to me and the people that I called), and has true E911 which most other VoIP providers do not.

Since Speakeasy is also my ISP (they only provide VoIP to people who have Speakeasy broadband), they allocate a dedicated portion of my line to use for my voice service without messing with the speed of the internet for my computers.

I also have lines from Packet8 and Vonage. Packet8 will be going in a month or two - wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy and will be cancelling as soon as my contract is up. Vonage is nice, but Speakeasy's service is cheaper, has real E911 service, and better quality voice. If it's all that's available, though, I'd say it's a pretty good option - the quality is about 85% of a regular landline, and better than a cell phone call any day.

[C.J. Moof]

Considering how good Skype calls sound, why do VoIP lines always sound worse than a standard analog line? I have an office extension in my house- connected to the office phone system over IP. It's acceptable, but definitely not as good as an analog line, much less Skype.

[the_glassman]

I had Lingo and it was absolute crap, it's made my mind up for me as far as an VoIP is concerned for now and the near future.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by the_glassman

I had Lingo and it was absolute crap, it's made my mind up for me as far as an VoIP is concerned for now and the near future.

What sucked about it?

[the_glassman]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

What sucked about it?

Mind you, I only have experience with Lingo. But here is a short list.
Dropped calls, lost voice mails, poor tech support and a firmware update that required me to get a router that still didn't fix the problem. The audacity to charge me a $40 cancelation fee because while I read and agreed to the TOS contract I never agreed to continue to pay for a service that stopped working completely through no fault of my own. Not to mention a tax and other BS fees they added for something that isn't regulated yet.

The first two months I didn't have any of those problems. Everything worked as it should, they didn't have any associated BS fees or taxes.

Would I like to use it or try it again in the future? Sure when it matures and things become a little more cut and dry. I loved being able to make calls all over the country for $20 a month, but the other crap just wasn't worth it.

[Link]

I have vonage here and it works pretty darn good, in fact it works just like our landline does for the most part, except that your service is as stable as your DSL or cable line. So it's $28 a month, that includes long distance in the US and Canada (Puerto Rico too), but it has caller id, voicemail, and all that stuff..

Voicemail is *123 too, just like on a cellphone -- and the service makes it so that you can get the VMs through the internet or through the phone... you can set up call forwarding and all that great stuff through there as well

Wish I had more time to elaborate on this, but I don't right now, all I can say is that it's truly worth the money

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Right now the #1 complaint with VoIP is quality.

Routers are now starting to ship with what is called QoS (Quality of service) which can prioritize the data which flows through your connection so that you don't get dropped calls when you download lots of porn. You can also get stand alone boxes that do the same thing.

[Link]

Starting to? SWG I got my box in January and they've been shipping this one since middle of last year, and it DOES do QoS.

Congrats on your 7777 post

[jasonsRX7]

I have Vonage, works well, but I also have a very fast and reliable cable connection.

Originally Posted by budster101

VOIP SUXXORS. Anyone who sells you on that is a lying bag of sh it.

Any explanation as to why you say that? Careful not to blame the technology when it could be the connection that's at fault. And I'm assuming you're referring to VoIP in the home. In the workplace it can be a phenomenal advantage.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Link

Starting to? SWG I got my box in January and they've been shipping this one since middle of last year, and it DOES do QoS.

Congrats on your 7777 post

Most linksys have it but 90% of routers shipping today DO NOT.

And thanks.

[Railroader]

Had Vonage but dropped it quickly. I have a very good 3 MB connection and the quality was horrible and I could never get my TiVo to work with it. I also have a friend who has a dedicated T-1 line to his house and he had some quality issues as well. It's not the speed of the broadband connection if you ask me.

[Eriamjh]

Wow. Such bad comments. Let me offer some good ones.

I have SunRocket for my VOIP. I paid $199 for a whole year (that's $17.something a month). I saved $33 a month compared to POTS. They have had some network problems recently, but I make very few calls.

All 48-state LD calls are free. International calls are $0.3 per minute and the first 100 minutes per month are free. You can cancel within 30 days for a full refund. You can cancel at any time and get a monthly pro-rated refund.

Caller-ID, call-forwarding, call-waiting, and probably others are included. I tranfered my old phone number and got two more to use also. I also got two free cordless phones for signing up.

Other than an occasional echo of my own voice, the quality is the same as POTS. I'm saving $450 per year or more. I can handle a few problems now and then because I still have a cell to fall back on.

No other fees. No taxes. No cancellation fees. It's just that their service has been running around 1 day of trouble for every 1 to 3 months. Overall, worth the money.

SBC calls me a lot now. I don't even pick up the phone when I see it is them.

If anyone wishes to sign up, PM me and I'll give you a special code which will get you the free phones.

Overall, a 10 on price, an 8 on reliability, a 9 on quality. I haven't had to call service for anything yet and it works fine between my cable modem and router. No setup issues at all.

End Spam.

Other VOIP comments: This is an emerging technology. It might not really be ready for prime time as some companies are growing faster than they can handle and others simply aren't ready. The savings can be dramatic if you are getting screwed out of $50 a month by the POTS companies before you even make a call like I was. If you run a business, consider using VOIP for outgoing calls only and use POTS for all your incoming calls. If you call LD, you can't beat the savings.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Please do

Here ya go: http://www.lingo.com/

[budster101]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

I have Vonage, works well, but I also have a very fast and reliable cable connection.

Any explanation as to why you say that? Careful not to blame the technology when it could be the connection that's at fault. And I'm assuming you're referring to VoIP in the home. In the workplace it can be a phenomenal advantage.

I met a charlatin trying to sell me some VOIP snake oil... I didn't bite, but he did.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Had Vonage but dropped it quickly. I have a very good 3 MB connection and the quality was horrible and I could never get my TiVo to work with it. I also have a friend who has a dedicated T-1 line to his house and he had some quality issues as well. It's not the speed of the broadband connection if you ask me.

Considering that you need a high speed internet connection to get VOIP, it seems kind of counterproductive to me to connect your TiVo with a phone line when you can connect it over the internet.

Chris

[dreilly1]

Originally Posted by chabig

Considering that you need a high speed internet connection to get VOIP, it seems kind of counterproductive to me to connect your TiVo with a phone line when you can connect it over the internet.

Chris

You can't connect older Series 1 tivos over the Internet (at least, not without opening the thing up, adding the add-on card, and dremeling a hole for the Ethernet cable...)

[chabig]

Originally Posted by dreilly1

You can't connect older Series 1 tivos over the Internet (at least, not without opening the thing up, adding the add-on card, and dremeling a hole for the Ethernet cable...)

Ahhhh...mine is series 2.

[wdlove]

I prefer to just stay with my land line phone service.

[Scotttheking]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Had Vonage but dropped it quickly. I have a very good 3 MB connection and the quality was horrible and I could never get my TiVo to work with it. I also have a friend who has a dedicated T-1 line to his house and he had some quality issues as well. It's not the speed of the broadband connection if you ask me.

According to their documentation, you can't use a modem with the line.

I have to replace my tivo if I go voip. It's the number one user of that phone line.

Edit: E911 coming soon. Once that happens I'll probably go with Vonage. $15/month make Scott happy.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Scotttheking

According to their documentation, you can't use a modem with the line.

I have to replace my tivo if I go voip. It's the number one user of that phone line.

Yuck, even after hooking it up to an adapter? So that mean no more faxing from your mac!

[Scotttheking]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Yuck, even after hooking it up to an adapter? So that mean no more faxing from your mac!

You have to get a dedicated fax line. I believe it's $10 for home services, included for business services.

[jasonsRX7]

Modems don't like the compression that takes place on VoIP.

[chabig]

That's too generalized of a statement. Many modem connections can be achieved over the VOIP lines. I did some searching on the net and one of the things that was mentioned is that TiVo owners might have various degrees of success with different TiVo phone numbers. Since there are no long distance charges with Vonage, you can try TiVo dial up numbers from all over the country. Also, if you are using Vonage's bandwidth saver, try putting *99 before the TiVo number. That turns the bandwidth saver off for that phone call.

Chris

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

This report just came out about VoIP.

http://www.keynote.com/news_events/r.../05july12.html

[Eriamjh]

911 update: According to SBC for Southeastern Michigan, if you hook up a standard phone to a "dead" telephone line and dial 911, it will connect. Dial tone is not required. Many people have voiced concern over 911 service (not here, but where I work) and this should eliminate that problem. This is not widely known (unlike cell phones that will work for 911 even if you have "no service").

Other than periodic outages, the biggest problem I have with Sunrocket it an occasional echo of my own voice back to me. Apparantly, the other end doesn't hear it.

Normally, it works transparently. But I know I'm saving $437 a year using it compared to Talk America.

[Eug Wanker]

My friend has VoIP...

1) Rogers is almost as expensive as Bell.
2) Vonage in Canada apparently isn't as good quality as Rogers, but costs less. The biggest problem seems to be echoing.
3) His home security monitoring company reports that some people have problems with security systems hooked up through VoIP lines. It should work, but sometimes doesn't.
4) Once in a while the router may need to be reset...
5) Modems and fax machines...
6) Telephone calls during a power outage won't work with VoIP obviously. Mind you, all my phones need a power outlet anyway, so the point is moot at my place (unless I dive into my closet to find an old line powered phone).

I'm sticking with POTS. (I have a fax machine, and a home security system. I also expect my land line to be crystal clear for voice calls.)

[turtle777]

Well, I'm using Vonage, and it works great. Seems like Vonage in Canada has slightly different terms and conditions.

Anyways, show me ONE landline provider where I get unlimited local and long distance for $ 25, and calls to Europe for $ 0.03 / min.

-t

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Well, I'm using Vonage, and it works great. Seems like Vonage in Canada has slightly different terms and conditions.

Anyways, show me ONE landline provider where I get unlimited local and long distance for $ 25, and calls to Europe for $ 0.03 / min.

-t

Well, VoIP does have advantages, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, Sprint in Canada offers unlimited North America calling for US$16.50 a month, but that's on top of the usual US$25 a month for the monthly fee, for a total of US$41.50. Depending on the plan, calls to places like the UK and China are US$0.04/min.

Vonage here is US$33.50 a month for the land line and unlimited North American long distance.

So you end up paying more, but you don't have to worry about fax issues, or the cable going down, etc. For that I can handle the extra CAD$10 a month.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Well, VoIP does have advantages, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, Sprint in Canada offers unlimited North America calling for US$16.50 a month, but that's on top of the usual US$25 a month for the monthly fee. Depending on the plan, calls to places like the UK and China are US$0.04/min.

So you end up paying more, but you don't have to worry about fax issues, or the cable going down, etc.

True. But the cheap international rates was what got me to switch.

-t

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by turtle777

True. But the cheap international rates was what got me to switch.

Well, like I said, it costs me 4¢ US a minute to call China on Sprint in Canada. It varies for Europe but it's still cheap. I don't call Europe much so it's not a big concern for me. However, if it matters, there are land line rates available for Europe that are cheaper than Sprint.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

My friend has VoIP...


6) Telephone calls during a power outage won't work with VoIP obviously. Mind you, all my phones need a power outlet anyway, so the point is moot at my place (unless I dive into my closet to find an old line powered phone).

I'm sticking with POTS. (I have a fax machine, and a home security system. I also expect my land line to be crystal clear for voice calls.)

Thats not totally true, Shaw Cable offers VOIP with a dedicated Internet connection for the VOIP and the equiptment has a battery backup inside to allow for calls even if the power is out. In your case it wont work cuz your phones plug in anyways

Side note on 911, in BC any land line outlet has 911 service even if you don't have a active phone line. If you are really worried about 911 for people in BC anyways just keep a regular phone in the house plugged in. It will still provide your address to the 911 operator and everything just as if you had a active phone line. Same goes for Cell phones. My old Telus cell phone has been with out service for 3 years now and I can still dial 911 on it.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

This report just came out about VoIP.

http://www.keynote.com/news_events/r.../05july12.html

A while back I bitched about Vonage quality and people jumped all over me. Looks like I was right after all.

VOIP has a LONG way to go.

[Athens]

I don't know, ive used it in 4 different places, from 3 different companies and found that it for the most part its the internet connection that either makes or breaks it. Its really high speed internet on its own that still has a long way to go in some places. Of the 4 VOIP setups I have used, the 2 on Shaw Cable worked PERFECT and the 2 on Telus ADSL, to be blunt was total crap. And one of each was Vonage. Shaw Cable has much more reliable internet service here so it really looks like it all comes down to how good is your internet.

[Railroader]

So, you're saying my friend who has a T3 direct connection from Verizon had a slow connection? O.K. Never mind the study SWF linked. We'll all go by your experience.

[Link]

You know, I have no idea what all the bickering is about, sometimes you'll have run-ins with quickly released hardware that still needs stable firmware, but for the most part I've had nothing but good things to say about my vonage service..

and that's across both a 3/512 SBC DSL line and a 4/384 comcast line now. With both, the phone service works great, if anything more reliable than the phone company's landline did. For $10 more than the phone company charges for a basic landline (more like $8 now), you get all sorts of addons and free long distance within the US, canada and puerto rico..

It's not what I call a bargain, it's what I call "what it should be". The phone company was ridiculous about this stuff, and you could never guess what a bill would cost; Vonage on the other hand has rate tables, relatively quick calling logs, and shoot even the voicemail is a bit niftier

That and if my ATA is out of contact with the company, the phone calls are automatically sent to my cellphone, something the phone company would never do to begin with.

How nice!

The staff are very quick to respond nowadays (though they did take a while on hold in the past), and pretty nice at that.. about the only gripe I have is that if you switch out your terminal adaptor they hold $100 of your money hostage until they get the old box back, but I don't plan to rip them off so that's no real big problem.

[ratter]

We work from home and have 2 ATT Callvantage lines (and 3 numbers). We're on cable, not a particularly great connection either. It tests anywhere from 1-3Mb d/l when I run online speed tests. The ATT box does do QoS, so maybe that factors in, but I've asked folks on the other end and they can't tell that I'm not on a regular landline. We even make two calls at once (with two PC's connected via VPN doing work stuff simultaneously) - no problems. I really like the emailed voicemail and the "simultaneous ring" option. I have calls simultaneously ring the home line and my cell line, very nice.

One thing that annoyed me about consumer VoIP initially was the telephone adapter and the fact that you had to plug your phone into this box that was near your cable/dsl modem. And their answer for folks needing more than one phone was to buy a cordless set with multiple handsets. Bah. So what I ended up doing is rewiring things such that all my ordinary old phone jacks in the house actually go to one of the two VoIP lines. Makes it "feel" much more like traditional phone service.

We have a security system, so I did keep one traditional landline for that. It also serves as a 911-type of outlet in that, even if the power is down, I could contact emergency services using the alarm keypad. I have a baby daughter, so I'm not about to skimp on safety. But we do have occasional power outages, and when the power does go out, I just use my cell.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Today I switched to something that is much like VOIP but it doesn't have much of the disadvantages.

I am still trying to figure out exactly how it works.
What I do know...
1) Does not use your internet connection.
2) Does not need adapters
3) Cheaper
4) 911
5) Does not go out during power failures.

How I THINK it works is that it is a normal phone line in your house that after it gets to the switching station it is converted to VOIP at there end. If anyone knows better please tell me.

The LITE version is VOIP but the normal one is not:
http://www.digitalvoice.bell.ca/Overview/

Thoughts?

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO

The LITE version is VOIP but the normal one is not:
http://www.digitalvoice.bell.ca/Overview/

They're both VOIP.

http://www.digitalvoice.bell.ca/Digi...witWorks/index

[hotani]

I've been using Vonage for a few months now and it's been great for the most part. No sound quality issues at all, love the features that are bundled in even with the cheapest plan, I'm paying $15 ($17-ish after taxes).

Good:
- simultaneous ring, I can ring my cell phone in case I'm not home, ring my work phone, etc.
- online voicemail, e-mail notification
- $15 for 500 minutes. I have yet to even come close to using that.
- my local phone monopoly Qwest was charging close to $30 for a BASIC line with NO features, NO long distance. I pretty much cut my phone bill in half.
- I no longer have to mess with the local phone company AND a long distance carrier

Bad:
- TiVo series 1 can't work with it. Series 2 can just use the network. fortunately I had weened myself from tivo pre-vonage so it didn't matter.
- their website is constantly hammered and slow. It's been completely unusable at times when I've needed it.
- their phone support is awful, really long waits.

In the end, I'm glad I made the switch. For what I do with my home phone it's perfect.

[juanvaldes]

We have one as a secondary line so my sister could call cross country. The only problems I can remember was when our net was unreliable. There is also some latency but that is not so bad.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally Posted by chabig

They're both VOIP.

http://www.digitalvoice.bell.ca/Digi...witWorks/index

Ya I can see that. The advantage to this one is that it doesn't have many of the major downsides of normal VOIP.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

... dropped calls when you download lots of porn. You can also get stand alone boxes that do the same thing.

A standalone porn download box ? Where ? Links, please

-t

[Athens]

Well ive been on vonage canada for 2 weeks now, it runs PERFECT so im very happy with it.