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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Gotta admire China's reaction time...

Gotta admire China's reaction time...
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Kevin
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Aug 27, 2007, 03:44 PM
 
China Airlines paints over name, logo on wreckage of jet at Naha Airport

NAHA -- China Airlines has painted over its name and logo on the wreckage of a passenger jet that exploded in flames at Naha Airport in Okinawa moments after passengers slid down emergency chutes to escape.

The airline painted over the name "China Airlines" on the left-hand side of the aircraft and the company's logo on the plane's tail fin.

After the accident, photographs and video footage of the jet continued to appear in news reports, and the company apparently painted over the name and logo to limit further damage to its image.

When questioned over the move, an official from the Taiwan-based airline said, "We followed international procedures. We do not have detailed information." (Mainichi)

China Airlines paints over name, logo on wreckage of jet at Naha Airport - MSN-Mainichi Daily News

     
Timo
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Aug 27, 2007, 04:02 PM
 
Not to be confused with Air China, the national airline of People's Republic of China. Wikipedia

Your thread title doesn't make sense -- China Airlines is Taiwanese. Your article even points that out.
     
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Aug 27, 2007, 05:27 PM
 
According to China (the People's Republic thereof, anyway) there is only One China, and Taiwan is a part of it.
     
tie
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Aug 27, 2007, 06:09 PM
 
I guess Kevin agrees that Taiwan is part of China? Are you a communist, too, Kevin? UNBELIEVABLE.
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Kevin  (op)
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Aug 28, 2007, 06:50 AM
 
I gotta get me one of those sit and spins.
     
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Aug 28, 2007, 08:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I gotta get me one of those sit and spins.
So that you can try to spin your way out of this one?
     
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Aug 28, 2007, 09:03 AM
 
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Aug 28, 2007, 05:06 PM
 
I'm headed over in a few months... perhaps I'll take a different airline. I'm just happy to see that everyone survived.
     
OldManMac
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Aug 28, 2007, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
According to China (the People's Republic thereof, anyway) there is only One China, and Taiwan is a part of it.
So the fact that they have their own elected government, and they run the country as they see fit doesn't mean much?
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nonhuman
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Aug 28, 2007, 06:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
So the fact that they have their own elected government, and they run the country as they see fit doesn't mean much?
Not according to the Party. The official line is that Taiwan is entirely a part of the People's Republic of China. The so-called 'government' in Taiwan is nothing but a bunch of treasonous criminals.

[Edit: Now that I think about it, the relationship between the Republic of China and the People's Republic of China is basically the same as that between the Confederated States of America and the United States of America.]
     
OldManMac
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Aug 28, 2007, 07:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Not according to the Party. The official line is that Taiwan is entirely a part of the People's Republic of China. The so-called 'government' in Taiwan is nothing but a bunch of treasonous criminals.

[Edit: Now that I think about it, the relationship between the Republic of China and the People's Republic of China is basically the same as that between the Confederated States of America and the United States of America.]
I'm well aware of what the party line is; I lived in Taiwan for 15 months, many years ago, in the Air Force. What the party says, however, is not reality. What is reality is the fact that Taiwan is indeed a separate country, and unless China somehow finds a way to take over rule on the island, it will continue to be so. Just because a group of people in mainland China harbor a fantasy that they own the island, doesn't make it so.
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nonhuman
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Aug 28, 2007, 07:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
I'm well aware of what the party line is; I lived in Taiwan for 15 months, many years ago, in the Air Force. What the party says, however, is not reality. What is reality is the fact that Taiwan is indeed a separate country, and unless China somehow finds a way to take over rule on the island, it will continue to be so. Just because a group of people in mainland China harbor a fantasy that they own the island, doesn't make it so.
Reality? Why is what Taiwan says any more real than what China says? Why is Taiwan justified in splitting off from China when the South wasn't justified in splitting off from the North?

When you're in China, what China says is the reality. Everyone there believes it, they have no choice because no other reality has ever been presented to them. Friends of mine who have taught English in China have gotten in trouble for even just forgetting to draw in Taiwan when drawing a map of China.

It's also interesting to note that the official US position is to support the One China policy because we don't want to ruin our relationship with China. If the US doesn't officially recognize the existence of a country as an independent state, then in what context can we call it one? What makes a country legitimate if not the official recognition of other countries? We certainly make the claim that certain governments are illegitimate. When a military coup overthrows a democratically elected government we call it illegitimate, and we speak out and sometimes act against those that treat them otherwise.
     
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Aug 28, 2007, 09:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Reality? Why is what Taiwan says any more real than what China says? Why is Taiwan justified in splitting off from China when the South wasn't justified in splitting off from the North?

When you're in China, what China says is the reality. Everyone there believes it, they have no choice because no other reality has ever been presented to them. Friends of mine who have taught English in China have gotten in trouble for even just forgetting to draw in Taiwan when drawing a map of China.

It's also interesting to note that the official US position is to support the One China policy because we don't want to ruin our relationship with China. If the US doesn't officially recognize the existence of a country as an independent state, then in what context can we call it one? What makes a country legitimate if not the official recognition of other countries? We certainly make the claim that certain governments are illegitimate. When a military coup overthrows a democratically elected government we call it illegitimate, and we speak out and sometimes act against those that treat them otherwise.
It is in fact a separate country, with separate leaders and governments. Tap dancing around a bunch of fancy political rhetoric doesn't change that. The people of Taiwan elect their own leaders, who make the laws and rules the citizens of Taiwan abide by. Chaing Kai-shek left mainland China in the late 40s, took over Formosa and established a separate country, which was recognized by the U. S. as such for many years. Current official U. S. policy is political mumbo jumbo designed to appease the lion that we were stupid enough to recognize, because we were afraid he would bite us (and now he's biting us economically instead of militarily, achieving the same results). Whether you want to recognize it as a separate country or as an adjunct to mainland China is irrelevant; it in fact exists as an independent self governing entity. Just because you, or George Bush, or whomever, say it isn't a country, doesn't make it so. We don't have to deal with them if we question the legitimacy of their government, but that doesn't change the fact that they have a separate and distinct system of governance. Some people can't seem to be able to discern the difference, and that attitude of hubris and arrogance is in fact what gets us into a lot of the trouble we're in around the globe.

Your analogy of the South versus the North also has no relevance here; different countries/cultures and political systems, and different reasons. The split in China was in fact successful for a number of years, and was indeed recognized by the U. S., among other nations, as such, until political and economic expediency, for the benefit of a few, caused the U. S. to dump one of its most trusted allies for a shortsighted view that's now biting us in the ass.
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Meneldil
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Aug 28, 2007, 11:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
It is in fact a separate country, with separate leaders and governments. Tap dancing around a bunch of fancy political rhetoric doesn't change that. The people of Taiwan elect their own leaders, who make the laws and rules the citizens of Taiwan abide by. Chaing Kai-shek left mainland China in the late 40s, took over Formosa and established a separate country, which was recognized by the U. S. as such for many years. Current official U. S. policy is political mumbo jumbo designed to appease the lion that we were stupid enough to recognize, because we were afraid he would bite us (and now he's biting us economically instead of militarily, achieving the same results). Whether you want to recognize it as a separate country or as an adjunct to mainland China is irrelevant; it in fact exists as an independent self governing entity. Just because you, or George Bush, or whomever, say it isn't a country, doesn't make it so. We don't have to deal with them if we question the legitimacy of their government, but that doesn't change the fact that they have a separate and distinct system of governance. Some people can't seem to be able to discern the difference, and that attitude of hubris and arrogance is in fact what gets us into a lot of the trouble we're in around the globe.

Your analogy of the South versus the North also has no relevance here; different countries/cultures and political systems, and different reasons. The split in China was in fact successful for a number of years, and was indeed recognized by the U. S., among other nations, as such, until political and economic expediency, for the benefit of a few, caused the U. S. to dump one of its most trusted allies for a shortsighted view that's now biting us in the ass.
The situation is complicated a bit politically by the fact both claimed to be the legitimate government of all China for a long time. Taiwan was not initially recognized as a separate country, but as the seat of the legitimate government of China.

When a country fights a civil war, a stalemate is reached, and then later on one side decides to secede, which side do you pick? (In reality I think the international community should judge each case individually, a rule wouldn't work well at all here).

That said, I agree with you. I lived in China for 4 years and I feel it would be extremely sad for Taiwan to be brought under the control of Beijing. However, the current policy may be the best way forward in my mind. Overtly supporting Taiwan would probably result in cutting off many of the sources of western influence in China that are slowly eroding the control of the party. I do think the US could make its support of Taiwan in the event of an invasion more clear, however. Popular wisdom is that China wouldn't risk its international standing with a direct attack, but the CCP and PLA are not on the same page in all things.
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Aug 28, 2007, 11:03 PM
 
Both Taiwan and mainland China consider Taiwan to be a part of China. They just differ on who's in charge.
     
OldManMac
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Aug 29, 2007, 01:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Both Taiwan and mainland China consider Taiwan to be a part of China. They just differ on who's in charge.
Really? You might want to tell that to the Taiwanese people and government; I'm sure they'd be amused to know that they don't consider themselves to be a separate country.
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mitchell_pgh
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Aug 29, 2007, 01:34 AM
 
My friend that lives in China basically said you are both either wrong or right. There are three main views...

Taiwan independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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Aug 29, 2007, 05:05 AM
 
I remember bitter fights between Chinese and Taiwanese in my dorm in Nagoya, they've `resolved' the matter by agreeing to never talk about it again.

For all intents and purposes, Taiwan is an independent state. On the other hand, legally, the question of whether it is really a state is a different matter. Try finding a Taiwanese embassy, for instance.
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Aug 29, 2007, 08:44 AM
 
Regardless of the question over whether or not Taiwan is independent of China, it's fairly clear that China does not make decisions relative to China Airlines. Therefore, the title of this thread is inaccurate. China did not paint over the logo on the China Airlines plane.
     
monkeybrain
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Sep 3, 2007, 10:44 AM
 
That is true, but it is also true that probably 99% of people don't know China Airlines is Taiwanese, and in fact that unreliable airline is hurting the reputation of China, not Taiwan. The Taiwanese find this quite funny.

And if we're talking semantics, then Taiwan would be a part of China, because Taiwan is China. It's official name is the Republic of China (ROC). Therefore the People's Republic of China is a rogue province (a bigun though) of the ROC.
     
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Sep 3, 2007, 04:36 PM
 
...way to take a thread off topic.
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Kevin  (op)
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Sep 3, 2007, 08:06 PM
 
Wisk just wanted to make sure the jab about my topic was made well known.

Not that this was meant to be a SERIOUS thread. I was actually hoping for a little light heartedness since no one was hurt.

But this is this Politcalous Loungarieah.
     
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Sep 3, 2007, 08:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Wisk just wanted to make sure the jab about my topic was made well known.

Not that this was meant to be a SERIOUS thread. I was actually hoping for a little light heartedness since no one was hurt.

But this is this Politcalous Loungarieah.
Kevin, just admit it. You fell flat on your face. You were trying to take a jab at China, but you just made yourself look ignorant as a result.
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Kevin  (op)
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Sep 3, 2007, 08:30 PM
 
Why would I admit something I wasn't doing?

Do I have a habit of taking jabs at china? No.

And fell for what? It wasn't a joke.

Did I call China Airlines part of China? Yes. Yes I did. And if you want to wring your hands together in the knowledge I did that, so that you in some way can feel better about yourself, do that too. I wouldn't want it any other way.



Some of you guys crack me up you are so uptight. This is why I guess they say the PL needs an enema.
     
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Why would I admit something I wasn't doing?

Do I have a habit of taking jabs at china? No.

And fell for what? It wasn't a joke.

Did I call China Airlines part of China? Yes. Yes I did. And if you want to wring your hands together in the knowledge I did that, so that you in some way can feel better about yourself, do that too. I wouldn't want it any other way.



Some of you guys crack me up you are so uptight. This is why I guess they say the PL needs an enema.
If it was American Airlines instead and a thread posted to the Political Lounge with the title "Gotta admire America's reaction time..", aren't you saying America is somehow responsible for painting over the name and logo on the plane involved in the accident?

Come on, you are taking cheap jabs at China and it fell flat on its face.

You are spreading FUD and people here are just educating you on your ignorance.
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Kevin  (op)
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
If it was American Airlines instead and a thread posted to the Political Lounge with the title "Gotta admire America's reaction time..", aren't you saying America is somehow responsible for painting over the name and logo on the plane involved in the accident?
No cause America's airlines are privately owned.
Come on, you are taking cheap jabs at China and it fell flat on its face.
I promise you, I wasn't attempting to take ANY jabs at China. I was just making fun of the whole act of erasing ones name to avoid bad PR.
I found it funny. Hence the
You are spreading FUD and people here are just educating you on your ignorance.
No, I posted something funny, humorous. Certain people are uptight, took it too seriously, and got their panties in a knot. And now they are projecting thoughts, beliefs, and motivations I simply do not hold.



And yes, you sure showed me hyteckit. I was so pwned.

Someone get a pwned image in here SAP!
     
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
No cause America's airlines are privately owned.
American Airlines is not a privately owned company. It's a public owned company who's parent company is traded under AMR.

AMR - AMR Corporation - Google Finance


Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I promise you, I wasn't attempting to take ANY jabs at China. I was just making fun of the whole act of erasing ones name to avoid bad PR.
I found it funny. Hence the

No, I posted something funny, humorous. Certain people are uptight, took it too seriously, and got their panties in a knot. And now they are projecting thoughts, beliefs, and motivations I simply do not hold.


Right, that's why the thread is posted to the political lounge with the thread that says China and not China Airlines.

Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
And yes, you sure showed me hyteckit. I was so pwned.

Someone get a pwned image in here SAP!
You are so pwned, I don't even need an image. How is China responsible in any way or form for what a Taiwanese-based airline company did is beyond me.
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Kevin  (op)
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:44 PM
 
hyktek go look up the meanings of and when used in context.

I have a history of posting silly things in this part of the forum to relax the anal retentive. (Someone always has to crash the party though) I don't have a history of bashing China.

Your accusations are unfounded, and simply 100% silly.
     
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:44 PM
 
China Airlines, like American Airlines is a publicly traded company.

2610 - China Airlines Ltd. - Google Finance

China Airlines is Taiwan based. American Airline is US based. Neither is government owned.
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Kevin  (op)
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:44 PM
 
You sure pwnt me. You won the internets!

I wonder if you go to comedy shows, and get serious when someone tells a political joke.





I'd take two.
     
hyteckit
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
You sure pwnt me.
I sure did.

Here's for you ->

The same smilies Senator Craig used in the bathroom stalls.
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Kevin  (op)
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I sure did.
Here is your cookie. (keep waiting for it... )
Here's for you ->

The same smilies Senator Craig used in the bathroom stalls.
Wow, I think hyteckit is now hitting on me. *blushes*

I am flattered (ok, i'm not) but no thanks.
     
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:54 PM
 
Everybody misunderstands you, don't they Kevin?
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Kevin  (op)
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Sep 3, 2007, 09:56 PM
 
Nope. Most people understand me fine. I am not hard to understand at all. I wouldn't be so pretentious as to think my posts were above the level of those that post here. That would be obnoxious.

What is with the projecting in the PL? It used to be bad, but man...

I guess if you can't attack the msg...

For example, if someone tells you they have no problems with China, you keep repeating the same thing acting as if they do is obnoxious. As if you or someone else would know better of the intentions or reasons for doing things more than the person that said them. Now THAT is pretentious.
     
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Sep 4, 2007, 02:40 PM
 
This thread should now be called "Gotta admire Timo's reaction time..."
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Sep 10, 2007, 09:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Everybody misunderstands you, don't they Kevin?
I understand Kevin. Covering the vertical stab is not uncommon in the military either. In 91 we (174th TFW) had the nose gear collapse on a Viper about 800' into the roll. Slid off into the sand, pilot ejected, small fire. Arrive on seen, A) Recover crew, B) Secure Scene, C) Cover the Vertical Stab before any photos for unit pride.

Just thought I'd give an example of a Govt. owned airline.
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Sep 10, 2007, 09:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Kevin, just admit it. You fell flat on your face. You were trying to take a jab at China, but you just made yourself look ignorant as a result.
You heretic. You asked Kevin to admit a mistake ? Burn in hell !

-t
     
Kevin  (op)
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Sep 13, 2007, 11:43 AM
 
Except for the fact I have a history of admitting when I am wrong. And not only that, I apologize to said person after being proven wrong.

Do a search for my name, and zimphire and "wrong" & "sorry"

Many of the ad-hominem attacks in this part of the forum rarely have any merit to them.

And you used to not act like this turtle. I have a feeling this part of the forum has rubbed off on you a bit. And not in a good way.

Now lets see if the turtle can admit he was wrong...
     
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Sep 21, 2007, 12:09 PM
 
Please respect the school cormorant, which was given to the school to commemorate Empire Day, when we try to remember the names of all those from the Sudbury area who so gallantly gave their lives to keep China British.
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