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More "Vegetarians and Hypocracy" Stuff
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Raylene
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Nov 29, 2007, 08:54 PM
 
This thread is in reference to the OLD Vegetarians - hypocrites? thread. Glenn

My best friend considers herself a vegetarian, yet she eats chicken and turkey!! It makes me angry sometimes. She just considers that a vegetarian doesn't eat red meat. I think that a vegetarian shouldn't eat anything with a face. Just because a turkey or chicken has an ugly face, doesn't mean it isn't meat.
( Last edited by ghporter; Nov 30, 2007 at 09:17 AM. )
     
Chuckit
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Nov 29, 2007, 10:20 PM
 
Holy Zombie thread, Batman! Anyway, just because something doesn't have a face doesn't mean isn't meat either.
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Oisín
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Nov 29, 2007, 10:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Raylene View Post
My best friend considers herself a vegetarian, yet she eats chicken and turkey!! It makes me angry sometimes. She just considers that a vegetarian doesn't eat red meat. I think that a vegetarian shouldn't eat anything with a face. Just because a turkey or chicken has an ugly face, doesn't mean it isn't meat.
That definition is pretty bogus, by all accounts. Eggs work fine (for me, since I’m lacto-ovo vegetarian), but chicken and turkey? No. Fish, chicken, and turkey is meat.

Then again, I’m only vegetarian because meat tastes like poo.

The root of the word 'vegetable' is 'veg', meaning "edible plant".

Silly me for not thinking that it included animals
I realise I’m well over two years late with this, but what? “The root [...] is ‘veg’, meaning «edible plant»”?

Um... no.

The root is ‘veget-’, supine stem of the Latin verb vegere, which means to be alive, be active, be animated (yes, animated, as in having an anima [soul], like the animals), same root as ‘vigor’. It had nothing to do with “edible plant” up until the 16th century.
     
macdude
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Nov 29, 2007, 10:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Raylene View Post
My best friend considers herself a vegetarian, yet she eats chicken and turkey!! It makes me angry sometimes. She just considers that a vegetarian doesn't eat red meat. I think that a vegetarian shouldn't eat anything with a face. Just because a turkey or chicken has an ugly face, doesn't mean it isn't meat.
Um, ok?
     
sek929
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Nov 29, 2007, 10:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by zerostar View Post
And the angel of the Lord came unto me,
snatching me up from my
place of slumber,
and took me on high,
and higher still until we
moved in the spaces betwixt the air itself.
and he bore me unto a
vast farmland of our own midwest,
and as we descended cries of
impending doom rose from the soil.
one thousand, nay, a million
voices full of fear.
and terror possessed me then.
and I begged,

"Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?"
And the angel said unto me,
"These are the cries of the carrots,
the cries of the carrots.
You see, reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day
and to them it is the holocaust."
And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat
like the tears of one millions terrified brothers
and roared,
"Hear me now,
I have seen the light,
they have a consciousness,
they have a life,
they have a soul.
damn you!
let the rabbits wear glasses,
save our brothers...can I get an amen?
can I get a hallelujah? thank you, Jesus.
I'll keep the Zombie alive.

Also, I didn't know it was Les Claypool narrating that for a long time.
     
natnabour
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Nov 29, 2007, 11:45 PM
 
so much hate, jeeez. labels are so 90s - people eat what they want to eat.

i had a friend who got SOOOO MAD that when asked if I was a vegetarian, I'd say yes. The reason being is that occasionally, I'll have fish. So to appease him and other friends, now I say I'm a pescatarian - even though I have fish once or twice a month - maaaayyyyybeee.

Honestly, why does it bother you so much what other people eat and what they call themselves? If they're not having meat, that means there's more for you - right?
     
monkeybrain
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Nov 30, 2007, 01:57 AM
 
I applaud any vegetarians or vegans who peruse these boards. Probably 150 years from now we'll all have to be vegetarians since the world cannot support the farming of such huge numbers of animals, particularly cows. Either that or soylent green.
     
ort888
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Nov 30, 2007, 02:13 AM
 
What the hell?

How does this happen? People find the thread on google and feel the need to respond to a 2 year old thread?

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
besson3c
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Nov 30, 2007, 02:16 AM
 
Maybe we should start eating people that have been killed via the death penalty to supplement our cow intake? Have you ever wondered what human meat tastes like?
     
Chuckit
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Nov 30, 2007, 03:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
supine stem
Dude, there are ladies and children reading this forum.
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Oisín
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Nov 30, 2007, 04:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Dude, there are ladies and children reading this forum.
     
MacosNerd
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Nov 30, 2007, 08:41 AM
 
I'm not a huge meat eater, but that doesn't mean I'm a vegetarian. I enjoy an occasional cow now and then

What I find hypercritical are these vegetarians and even the PETA folks who complain so loudly we're abusing these animals and we have no right eating our fellow creatures. The last time I noticed someone complaining about that, they had a nice leather belt and leather shoes.

Heck what about plants and trees they're living too, why should we harm our plant brothers to gasp feed and cloth us.

I could probably go on to a spiritual point of God providing the animals for our enjoyment (not just eating enjoyment but they was included) but I won't. The point is eating meat is perfectly natural and last time I checked eating a cow (or if you're at Arby's a horse) it was pretty tasty
     
Kevin
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Nov 30, 2007, 09:00 AM
 
Arby's serves horse? mmmm.

BTW leather shoes are made from secret ingredients.
     
ghporter
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Nov 30, 2007, 09:15 AM
 
I would like to remind Raylene to read our General Forum Rules. We strongly disapprove of bringing back threads that haven't had activity for a long time. In this case, two years is WAY past our 6-month limit.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
wallinbl
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Nov 30, 2007, 09:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by monkeybrain View Post
I applaud any vegetarians or vegans who peruse these boards. Probably 150 years from now we'll all have to be vegetarians since the world cannot support the farming of such huge numbers of animals, particularly cows. Either that or soylent green.
Right, and all the mega farming of corn and other edible plants is benign. Can you point me to some actual facts showing that animal farming is going to destroy the world while edible plant farming is better?
     
Kevin
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Nov 30, 2007, 09:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I would like to remind Raylene to read our General Forum Rules. We strongly disapprove of bringing back threads that haven't had activity for a long time. In this case, two years is WAY past our 6-month limit.
Yeah I thought that too. But maybe it depends on the thread? If it's something stupid that is dated I can see closing it. But what if she wanted to make a comment, did a search, saw a thread on the matter and decided "I'll juts add to it"

If you guys want to make a 6 month limit.. start archiving and making so you can't post to threads over said time limit unless specified. If that is possible. (For example some threads like the screenshot thread has been going on since 2002 even though no one has ever stickied it. (almost a 6 year long thread.. ) so that wouldn't fall under the same category I guess.

But anyhow, that is veering off topic. So go on and talk about eating stuff.

I wonder of vegetarians eat jello.
     
MacosNerd
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Nov 30, 2007, 09:26 AM
 
In most cases i think a new thread can be created instead of resurrecting a zombie thread.

I basically skipped past all of the old stuff and posted what $.02. I have no idea if what I had said already was posted. New threads I read through the posts and I'll generally try not duplicate what was posted.

With that thread it is an interesting subject matter so I didn't mind throwing in my $.02
     
ghporter
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Nov 30, 2007, 09:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
Right, and all the mega farming of corn and other edible plants is benign. Can you point me to some actual facts showing that animal farming is going to destroy the world while edible plant farming is better?
Industrial production of cattle for food produces more methane than any other source. On the other hand, ANY plant agriculture is going to take up CO2 and release O2, so mega farming of corn is helpful in reducing greenhouse gasses, especially when compared to cattle farming.

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SirCastor
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Nov 30, 2007, 10:31 AM
 
I heard a story on NPR several months back about a cow farm who is capturing all their methane and generating electricity out of it. They even feed power back into the grid.
We could make our meat habit very productive, but as always, most people aren't willing to give up their dollars...

I had a boss who was cooking food for the 'office' (I call it that loosely) one day, and he was making chicken for the vegetarians. Sigh...

I like red meat a lot. Avoiding eating the flesh of an animal makes you a vegetarian. Avoiding any products of an animal or the flesh for food (milk, eggs) makes you a Vegan (meaning you only eat plants). As well all learned in school, a well balanced diet is the best thing for a person.
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Kevin
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Nov 30, 2007, 10:38 AM
 
Yes too much of anything is bad IMHO. I don't think red meat is bad for you. Too much of it is however. I like me some steak.
     
wallinbl
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Nov 30, 2007, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Industrial production of cattle for food produces more methane than any other source. On the other hand, ANY plant agriculture is going to take up CO2 and release O2, so mega farming of corn is helpful in reducing greenhouse gasses, especially when compared to cattle farming.
Corn farming is all about genetically engineered corn that is sterile (can't reproduce because they don't want you stealing the secret formula), which means that we've actually destroyed a working part of nature. It's also full of chemical pesticides and fertilizers. Sure, you get some O2 out of it, but you're doing hoards of harm at the same time.

Cows are one of the few animals that can turn mere grass into meat. It's a pretty good deal. Cow manure is also an excellent fertilizer.

The reality is that big business is generally going to do bad things in order to maximize profit. There's no sense in romanticizing the thought of growing corn or of simple farmers. ConAgra and Archer Daniels Midland are two of the most evil companies in the US. They just don't make the news as much as Halliburton or Enron. You'd probably do the world a bigger favor to buy food that didn't come from them than to be a vegetarian to avoid animal farming while still eating the crops from the big guys.
     
wallinbl
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Nov 30, 2007, 10:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
Then again, I’m only vegetarian because meat tastes like poo.
You should see a doctor about that! It's vegetables that taste like poo!
     
paul w
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Nov 30, 2007, 10:46 AM
 
How does he know what poo tastes like?
     
Oisín
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:15 AM
 
“Hypocracy”, is that when the plebs gets to make the decisions?
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:27 AM
 
Meat tastes good. Steak? Mmmmm. Pork? Mmmmm. Chicken? Mmmmm, mmmmmm.

In honor of this thread, I think I'll have a nice juicy burger for lunch. With a side of chicken fingers.
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Doofy
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I wonder of vegetarians eat jello.
Proper veggies (like myself) won't touch it, since it has dead things in it. There's a veggie alternative available though.

Of course, fashion veggies won't be aware of the contents of jello and will likely eat it.
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scaught
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I wonder of vegetarians eat jello.
There are viable vegetable sources for gelatin, I don't know that I've ever seen it made into those cute little red squishy cubes. They have a veg version of everything else though, so there probably is.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Maybe we should start eating people that have been killed via the death penalty to supplement our cow intake? Have you ever wondered what human meat tastes like?
Yes.

I would imagine it tastes like hell.

1. Cows that people eat are relatively young (per this article http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/73/11/3304.pdf younger slaughtered cows produce more desirable cuts, I imagine this is the standard in the slaughterhouse industry). Noone wants to eat a little kid.

2. Cows are fed grass. Humans eat deep fried twinkies and fries covered in cheese and dipped in ranch.
     
OldManMac
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Raylene View Post
This thread is in reference to the OLD Vegetarians - hypocrites? thread. Glenn

My best friend considers herself a vegetarian, yet she eats chicken and turkey!! It makes me angry sometimes. She just considers that a vegetarian doesn't eat red meat. I think that a vegetarian shouldn't eat anything with a face. Just because a turkey or chicken has an ugly face, doesn't mean it isn't meat.
You ought to be more concerned about what "makes" you angry, and why you don't feel you're in charge of your own emotions, than what other people eat.
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Oisín
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Proper veggies (like myself) won't touch it, since it has dead things in it. There's a veggie alternative available though.

Of course, fashion veggies won't be aware of the contents of jello and will likely eat it.
If it exists where they live. And if it weren’t so blubberily icky.
     
scaught
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Meat tastes good. Steak? Mmmmm. Pork? Mmmmm. Chicken? Mmmmm, mmmmmm.

In honor of this thread, I think I'll have a nice juicy burger for lunch. With a side of chicken fingers.
People mention things like this and People Eating Tasty Animals, etc, ad nauseum, all the time in these veg threads. Do you think this is clever? Are you trying to be offensive?


p.s.: try harder.
     
paul w
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:44 AM
 
I think it's an effective counterpoint to the "meat tastes icky" argument.

Neither are of any use in this discussion/debate/poo fling-athon

My arguments: Are you being realistic, respecting or not missing out on certain pleasures? Is there a time when you can eat meat so as not to offend, or there's no other source of food available (travel in certain countires makes this a reality)? And finally - are you getting enough protein (I know you can, but are you)?

But the idea of being vegetarian doesn't bother me one bit. Live and let live, y'know.
     
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:46 AM
 
No, it just makes us think of lunch.

On that note, I think I'll go to Fuddruckers and have a Dogzilla with chili and cheese.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Oisín
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Nov 30, 2007, 11:56 AM
 
I think it's an effective counterpoint to the "meat tastes icky" argument.
Except for the deliberate childish, taunting nature of it.

(I admit my poo comment, apart from pandering to besson3c, can be seen as childish and taunting, too, but normally in such threads, I’ll just say that I’m a vegetarian because I really don’t like the taste of any kind of meat anymore.)

The ‘meat proselytisers’ always seem to be in it for the childish pleasure of rubbing, “Mmmm, look what I’m eating: big, fat, juicy, blood-dripping raw steak!” in the face of the vegetarians, which is the part that gets old very quickly.

Neither are of any use in this discussion/debate/poo fling-athon
Seriously, though: was the discussion/debate/poo-flingathon any use to begin with?
     
MacosNerd
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Proper veggies (like myself) won't touch it, since it has dead things in it. There's a veggie alternative available though..
I got news for you doof.

vegetables are a "dead" thing. That is they were alive before they were harvested for consumption.
     
Doofy
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
I got news for you doof.

vegetables are a "dead" thing. That is they were alive before they were harvested for consumption.
I got news for you too. Stick a bunch of carrots or potatoes into some soil and they'll carry on growing. They're technically still alive.
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Oisín
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I got news for you too. Stick a bunch of carrots or potatoes into some soil and they'll carry on growing. They're technically still alive.
Stick a pork loin into some soil and it’ll carry on ‘growing’, too...
     
Kevin
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by scaught View Post
I would imagine it tastes like hell.
How do you know what hell tastes like, have you tasted it?!?

Sorry, I had to. Move on.
     
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:24 PM
 
That's made my morning even worse. For me, I try to stay away from meat and milk.
     
Kevin
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by scaught View Post
People mention things like this and People Eating Tasty Animals, etc, ad nauseum, all the time in these veg threads. Do you think this is clever? Are you trying to be offensive?
Both sides have their same cliches they spout in every thread of the like. The thing is, the only people that complain are the ones that say things they don't like.
     
wallinbl
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I got news for you too. Stick a bunch of carrots or potatoes into some soil and they'll carry on growing. They're technically still alive.
So, you'd eat live monkey brains? They say it's good for your sex drive.
     
Kevin
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I got news for you too. Stick a bunch of carrots or potatoes into some soil and they'll carry on growing. They're technically still alive.
So you are eating things WHILE they are still alive!!?!??! YOU ANIMAL!
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
Stick a pork loin into some soil and it’ll carry on ‘growing’, too...
eeewww
     
MacosNerd
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I got news for you too. Stick a bunch of carrots or potatoes into some soil and they'll carry on growing. They're technically still alive.
True but there's plenty of plants that stop ripening or will not do that once they're harvested

Just making an observation that's all. I have not problems with people who avoid meat. I barely touch it myself. Like I said I'll enjoy chewing on a cow once in a while. That once in a while is generally less then once a month. I have beef rarely, chicken a few times a month and fish once a month.
     
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by scaught View Post
There are viable vegetable sources for gelatin, I don't know that I've ever seen it made into those cute little red squishy cubes. They have a veg version of everything else though, so there probably is.



Yes.

I would imagine it tastes like hell.

1. Cows that people eat are relatively young (per this article http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/73/11/3304.pdf younger slaughtered cows produce more desirable cuts, I imagine this is the standard in the slaughterhouse industry). Noone wants to eat a little kid.

2. Cows are fed grass. Humans eat deep fried twinkies and fries covered in cheese and dipped in ranch.

Well, many cattle are grain fed these days, but I get your drift...
     
wallinbl
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by scaught View Post
2. Cows are fed grass. Humans eat deep fried twinkies and fries covered in cheese and dipped in ranch.
So, if we're saying that an animal's meat will taste better if the things it eats taste worse, then you should eat my dog. She eats cat poop, and from the smell of it, I imagine it tastes awful.
     
scaught
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
So, if we're saying that an animal's meat will taste better if the things it eats taste worse, then you should eat my dog. She eats cat poop, and from the smell of it, I imagine it tastes awful.
Uh. The exact opposite

Not that grass tastes "good". But I'm sure it imparts a taste onto the meat. Look at deer and rabbit and other things people would say taste "gamey". It's all because of their diet.
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by scaught View Post
People mention things like this and People Eating Tasty Animals, etc, ad nauseum, all the time in these veg threads. Do you think this is clever? Are you trying to be offensive?


p.s.: try harder.
Not trying to be clever or offensive, just stating my opinion. Meat tastes good to me. Beef, pork, chicken, doesn't matter - it all tastes good. Just because vegetarians don't think it tastes good or that eating meat is someone how "wrong" or "unhealthy" doesn't make meat taste any less delicious to the vast majority of people.
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Kevin
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Nov 30, 2007, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Not trying to be clever or offensive, just stating my opinion. Meat tastes good to me. Beef, pork, chicken, doesn't matter - it all tastes good. Just because vegetarians don't think it tastes good or that eating meat is someone how "wrong" or "unhealthy" doesn't make meat taste any less delicious to the vast majority of people.
I just hate the veggies that try to make you feel GUILTY for eating meat. The whole guilt trip thing is 10x worse than your post. "HOW CAN YOU EAT THAT POOR DEFENSELESS BAMBI!11"
     
besson3c
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Nov 30, 2007, 01:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Not trying to be clever or offensive, just stating my opinion. Meat tastes good to me. Beef, pork, chicken, doesn't matter - it all tastes good. Just because vegetarians don't think it tastes good or that eating meat is someone how "wrong" or "unhealthy" doesn't make meat taste any less delicious to the vast majority of people.
I agree that your tone was disrespectful to vegetarians. They deserve our respect, their are many reasons to be a vegetarian:

1) Don't like factory farming and how animals are treated there

2) Think that eating animals in general is wrong

3) Don't like the taste of meat

4) Wish to minimize our environmental footprint

5) Grossed out at the idea of consuming dead flesh

6) Any combination thereof


Instead of picking apart these points and countering them with why you disagree with them, wouldn't it be better to simply respect other people's choices? Would you get into an unsolicited critique of somebody's religion if they were to share with you their religion of choice?
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 30, 2007, 01:03 PM
 
Neurobiological View of Plants and their Body Plan

"The computational and informational capacity of this nervous system based on interconnected parallel units is predicted to be higher than that of the diffuse nervous system of lower animals, or the central nervous system of higher animals/humans."

In short, many plants feel pain.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
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Nov 30, 2007, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
1) Don't like factory farming and how animals are treated there

2) Think that eating animals in general is wrong

3) Don't like the taste of meat

4) Wish to minimize our environmental footprint

5) Grossed out at the idea of consuming dead flesh
6) Health reasons

7) Spiritual reasons

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
8) Any combination thereof
There ya go.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
 
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