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Canadian apologies and observations
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[email protected]
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Aug 28, 2010, 02:01 PM
 
****EDIT Whoops: Obviously the title is supposed to be Canadian apologies and observations ***

So having returned from my vacation in Montreal (Thanks to all who gave recommendations, they were very helpful), and had a awesome time.

That being said I feel I need to offer our northern neighbors an apology for two things I experienced there:

1st. While enjoying a late lunch at O'burger there were a Masshole couple at the next table loudly carrying on a conversation with their kids back home.....for 45 mins...the entire duration I was trying to enjoy my meal and relax. The waiter was so taken aback by this behavior and recognizing me as a fellow yank made a point of asking if this was acceptable in the US. I explained that it was not and I explained to him about Massholes in general and most Americans have realized this is unacceptable behavior.

2nd. Walmart. I'm glad this wonderful slice of Americana has found its way north and the Canadians have learned the appropriate way to behave in the store, such as letting their screaming child be drag across the floor while holding on the cart that the parents are pushing (If you think this spectacle is interesting to see in English, it's 10x times so in French!). The redeeming factor of WallyWorld Canada is the sell 5 Alive and the DVD prices are even better then in the US, and that before the rate conversion.

As for general observations: I'm surprised at the lack of handicapped/mobility accommodations Montreal has, even in newer buildings. I noticed there seems to to be a greater percentage of the population in wheelchairs and yet many places (especially the Subway) does not have elevations and such to assist the mobility limited (I did come across a inclined travelator for the 1st time in my life. It's to my understanding we don't have them in the US due to fear of lawsuits from injuries. (Edit: we do have the regular flat one though)) As a gimp myself, I found this a little annoying. What's up with this?
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turtle777
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Aug 28, 2010, 02:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
(I did come across a inclined travelator for the 1st time in my life. It's to my understanding we don't have them in the US due to fear of lawsuits from injuries.
Pff, that's for beginners when it comes to injuries.

I used to work (in Germany) in an old building that had a paternoster. Thta's where the real injury potential lies





-t
     
Wiskedjak
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Aug 28, 2010, 03:00 PM
 
By "inclined travelator" are you referring to one of these?


If so, estimates are that there are 30,000 of them in the US.
How escalator is made - manufacture, making, used, components, structure, steps, industry, machine, Components, Design, The Manufacturing Process, Quality Control, The Future
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 28, 2010, 03:01 PM
 
I love paternosters.

Such a shame they're dying out.
     
Oisín
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Aug 28, 2010, 03:03 PM
 
^^ 30,000 escalators? In the entire US? That’s crazy.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 28, 2010, 03:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
By "inclined travelator" are you referring to one of these?


If so, estimates are that there are 30,000 of them in the US.
How escalator is made - manufacture, making, used, components, structure, steps, industry, machine, Components, Design, The Manufacturing Process, Quality Control, The Future
I'm pretty sure he'd have called an escalator an "escalator".

I think he means acrosscalators - those occasionally come at an angle to go up or down, especially in largish supermarkets.

     
dzp111
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Aug 28, 2010, 03:06 PM
 
Hi [email protected]

I live about 8 hours east of Montreal (I did live in Montreal 1983-1985). Anyway, where I live (Sudbury ON) has a population of nearly 160,000 and growing. I'd have to say that probably over 80% of our buildings here are handicap-friendly.

I suppose that in Montreal not enough people are complaining and as far as those businesses that don't cater to those in question, well, their loss. However we need to keep in mind that Montreal is a very, very old place (over 300 yrs?) with ancient buildings and complexes.

As for the disruptive little brats in public places, that is common here in Sudbury as well. I don't get it.

Glad you enjoyed your trip besides the issues you've raised. I myself am looking forward to my next visit there.
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Wiskedjak
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Aug 28, 2010, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I'm pretty sure he'd have called an escalator an "escalator".

I think he means acrosscalators - those occasionally come at an angle to go up or down, especially in largish supermarkets.
Could be. What is the danger of an acrosscalator?
     
[email protected]  (op)
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Aug 28, 2010, 04:12 PM
 
Spheric Harlot - you are correct, I mean "acrosscalators".

Wiskjak - the danger with them is unlike the "moving walkways" (as they're better known as here in the US) which are almost always horizontal (or if inclined, no more so then maybe 3 degrees), the true "acrosscalator" as the one I tried as an incline of about 25 to 30 degrees. The danger would be of anything on wheels being let go and crashing tot he bottom. Also, for folks such as myself who are gimps, while I'm currently fully ambulatory, I found the "Acrosscalator" rather uncomfortable.


dzp111 - The historic nature of Montreal is one of the many reason I went there. A the locations where preservation trumps convenience, I can understand the limitations of making it handicapped accessible. However, as I noted before, it's even newer construction that seems to be lacking in accessibility. I'm curious, does Canada have anything like our ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) laws?
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dzp111
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Aug 28, 2010, 04:51 PM
 
does Canada have anything like our ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) laws?
I'm not familiar with your ADA laws, but according to the link below such thing does exist in Ontario.

Federal Disability Act | Council of Canadians with Disabilities

Federal (Canada) Disability Act

"In Canada, people interested in disability public policy have different views on the effectiveness of disability legislation for removing barriers and improving the lives of people with disabilities. The United States, Australia and Ontario have such legislation but the results vary. CCD, using a human rights and disability rights analysis, examined what a federal disability act could do for Canadians with disabilities".
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Eug
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Aug 28, 2010, 08:55 PM
 
Massholes? Meaning from Massachusetts? I don't find people from Mass particularly obnoxious. Is there some sort of rivalry between NH and MA?

Anyways, some things about Montreal vs. Canada outside of Quebec:

1. Everyone smokes
2. Crappy recycling programs
3. Poor accessibility
4. Better dressed
5. Poutine
6. People butter their pizzas (Actually this is pretty uncommon, but I haven't seen it anywhere else in Canada.)
7. Worse bureaucracy (and it's pretty damn bad in much of Canada)
8. Decent subway system (excluding the accessibility issues)
9. Drinking age of 18
Etc.
     
dzp111
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Aug 28, 2010, 09:16 PM
 
Anyways, some things about Montreal vs. Canada outside of Quebec:

1. Everyone smokes
2. Crappy recycling programs
3. Poor accessibility
4. Better dressed
5. Poutine
6. People butter their pizzas (Actually this is pretty uncommon, but I haven't seen it anywhere else in Canada.)
7. Worse bureaucracy (and it's pretty damn bad in much of Canada)
8. Decent subway system (excluding the accessibility issues)
9. Drinking age of 18
Etc.
Lol! Nice list. I'd like to add a couple more..

10. No.1 capital of alcoholics (especially in beer consumption)
11. If you know your French, it's also the capital of swearing and cussing (but that applies to the whole province as well).
12. The fact that for decades they tried to become their own nation while separating from Canada has tainted them forever. Yet again that applies to the whole province. In fact Montreal is the most multi-cultured city in the province, so as a whole, a large chunk of Montréalais' weren't keen on the idea.
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Eug
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Aug 28, 2010, 09:25 PM
 
Re: #10

I went to university in Montreal. My dorm was sponsored by Labatt. It's true that Labatt Blue isn't great, but since we were sponsored by them and got their beer wholesale, that's mostly what I drank for years, even after I moved out of the dorm. Brilliant marketing plan on their part, but I'm surprised the university administration allowed it.

     
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Aug 28, 2010, 10:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Re: #10

I went to university in Montreal. My dorm was sponsored by Labatt. It's true that Labatt Blue isn't great, but since we were sponsored by them and got their beer wholesale, that's mostly what I drank for years, even after I moved out of the dorm. Brilliant marketing plan on their part, but I'm surprised the university administration allowed it.

They were wasted.
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[email protected]  (op)
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Aug 29, 2010, 01:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Massholes? Meaning from Massachusetts? I don't find people from Mass particularly obnoxious. Is there some sort of rivalry between NH and MA?
Please let me take this opportunity to invite you to visit my beautiful state on any Friday afternoon during the summer. Make sure your driving north on Either I-89, I-93, or I-95 and tell me if you notice anything odd. Grant you can do this on any direction anytime of the year and see my point, but Friday, in the summer, driving north will really make it obvious. (*disclosure* I'm well aware our states economy would be non existent with them, but even still! I think the invasion at Normandy was less of a spectacle.)

Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Anyways, some things about Montreal vs. Canada outside of Quebec:

1. Everyone smokes
2. Crappy recycling programs
3. Poor accessibility
4. Better dressed
5. Poutine
6. People butter their pizzas (Actually this is pretty uncommon, but I haven't seen it anywhere else in Canada.)
7. Worse bureaucracy (and it's pretty damn bad in much of Canada)
8. Decent subway system (excluding the accessibility issues)
9. Drinking age of 18
Etc.
As an unbiased 3rd party observer, I agree with everything you say except for 2. I was giving mad props to QC as everywhere I went from the KOA where I stayed, to La Ronde, to the Carrefour Angrignon I saw many recycling opportunities all around. In fact I was a bit overwhelmed in the Carrefour Angrignon food court 'cause I wasn't sure which of the 4 bins I was supposed to put each piece of refuse into. If that's what you call failing, they're doing it with high marks.
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Eug
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Aug 29, 2010, 10:05 AM
 
I'm talking about residential recycling. Apparently a lot of condo and apt. buildings still have none. Mind you, things might have improved in the last couple of years.

So you saw people buttering their pizza too?
     
dzp111
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Aug 29, 2010, 10:14 AM
 
There are excellent pizza parlours in Montreal. One major difference between their pizzas and ours is that they cover the toppings with the cheese (this gives the cheese a small crunch), whereas here the toppings are on top of the cheese.
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Eug
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Aug 29, 2010, 11:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by dzp111 View Post
There are excellent pizza parlours in Montreal. One major difference between their pizzas and ours is that they cover the toppings with the cheese (this gives the cheese a small crunch), whereas here the toppings are on top of the cheese.
Eh? Pizzas can be bought with either style in either province. If you want truly different, go to western Canada, where an "all dressed" pizza has 10 toppings, 7 of which are meat.

Actually my favourite pizza doesn't even have cheese, which is often the case for authentic Italian pizza. My all time favourite pizza is Marinara, which is just tomato sauce, a sprinkling of oregano and garlic, topped with a bit of olive oil and usually some basil leaves.



This is available in Toronto at several downtown places. I hadn't found it in downtown Montreal though, although I haven't looked for it that much in Montreal.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 29, 2010, 12:11 PM
 
That's a margarita. Marinara is seafood, unless the canadians are weirder than expected.
     
Oisín
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Aug 29, 2010, 12:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
That's a margarita. Marinara is seafood, unless the canadians are weirder than expected.
No, a Margherita has mozzarella. Marinara is exactly what Eug said, a pizza with pure marinara sauce.

Calling seafood pizzas ‘marinara’ is, as far as I know, a northern European phenomenon, though at least it makes some sense—you would expect a mariner’s pizza to have stuff from the ocean on it, after all.
     
Eug
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Aug 29, 2010, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
That's a margarita. Marinara is seafood, unless the canadians are weirder than expected.
Incorrect, on both counts.

Margarita pizza has cheese.

Seafood Marinara means seafood, but traditionally in Italy, Marinara is a basically just tomato sauce with herbs and no meat or seafood. You can put it over seafood, but the word Marinara itself doesn't imply seafood. I guess some non-native Italian restaurants might now use the term Marinara to suggest seafood, but that's not the original meaning.

Marinara Sauce Recipe - The Italian Chef

1/4 cup of olive oil
4 cloves of garlic sliced in half
1 35oz can of imported Italian tomatoes
salt & pepper to taste
3 basil leaves, washed, patted dry and chopped

EDIT:

Oisín beat me to it.

Anyways, the reason I like it so much is because it's so light. Cheese pizza is North America is often too heavy for my tastes, but Marinara isn't. If I want something a bit more filling, sometimes I'll order a modification of it with added ricotta cheese (not too much).
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 12:45 PM
 
Seafood marinara pizzas were one of my favourite things about Italy.

Just a marinara pizza with mussels, shrimp, and other random shellfish dumped on top. Amazing.
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Spheric Harlot
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Aug 29, 2010, 01:24 PM
 
I learned me something today. I be silent, now.

(iPhone corrects "lernd" to "learned" - that's amazing. They correct for stupid, too...)
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by dzp111 View Post
There are excellent pizza parlours in Montreal. One major difference between their pizzas and ours is that they cover the toppings with the cheese (this gives the cheese a small crunch), whereas here the toppings are on top of the cheese.
In the USA, one pizza chain called Papa John's Pizza puts the toppings all under the cheese. I think they are Indianapolis based (too lazy to look, but not too lazy to admit it). I've eaten at a few places that put some toppings under the cheese and some on top.

But a vast majority put the toppings all on top.

When we visited Montreal we ate exclusively at French places. Very good stuff. Except for the one place where a worker stole over $3k from my back account when he copied my debit card number and used it. The bank credited me the full amount.
     
Oisín
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Aug 29, 2010, 01:40 PM
 
When you say they put the ‘topping’ on top of the cheese …

Do you mean that they sprinkle some oregano and/or basil on top, and things like that? Or do you mean that the cheese actually goes on the pizza first, and all the other topping comes after that, sauce and meat and all?!

’Cause that’s a bit bizarre.
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 01:46 PM
 
Cheese on first. Crust, sauce, cheese, pepperoni, mushrooms, etc., etc., applied in that order. Sometimes it's OK-plain pepperoni pizza for example-but I really prefer cheese on the top, and that's how I make it at home.

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Oisín
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Aug 29, 2010, 01:48 PM
 
Okay, so at least the sauce goes under the cheese. That’s always something, it’s not complete anarchistic madness, then.

Still odd. How can the cheese melt into the topping if the topping is on top of the cheese? (I think I just broke the record for using the words ‘top’ and ‘cheese’ the most times in one sentence)

This thread makes me want pizza.
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 01:53 PM
 
Me too. I guess the toppings are supposed to "melt into" the cheese.

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Eug
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Aug 29, 2010, 02:40 PM
 
In the early 1980s where I lived (western Canada) cheese was on top of the toppings, and then some time in the 1980s some of the places starting putting some of the toppings on top of the cheese. It seemed like it was supposed to be more trendy or something. I guess many of the restaurants in Sudbury stuck with that? Or have they always been like that?

When I make a cheese pizza, I put the sauce then a tiny bit of cheese, then some toppings, then some more cheese, and then more toppings, and then some more cheese. That way there is cheese all the way through and the toppings stick to each other. However, I use way less cheese than usual - roughly half of what you get in a place like Pizza Hut - despite the fact I have multiple sprinklings of it.

Actually, I do know that many of the pizza places that have cheese on top in places where I've lived do in fact have multiple layers of cheese, not just the top layer.
     
turtle777
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Aug 29, 2010, 02:53 PM
 
I think in the USA (with some pizza chains at least), the cheese under the toppings is actually NOT considered a topping. It comes standard.

If you want cheese on top, you add extra cheese as a topping. Then it goes on top.

-t
     
Eug
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Aug 29, 2010, 02:54 PM
 
Which chains? In Pizza Hut, at least in Canada, the cheese is mostly on top… and it comes standard. Or at least it was when I worked there and when I've eaten there since. I haven't eaten at a Pizza Hut since about 2006 though.
     
turtle777
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Aug 29, 2010, 02:57 PM
 
E.g Dominos (IIRC). You get a certain amount of basic cheese underneath, but if you want more, it goes on top.

Also, local Italian restaurants tend to have "ground" (well, dunno what it's really called, the non-fresh version that doesn't come swimming in salted water) mozzarella underneath, but if you order a pizza with extra fresh mozzarella, it will go on top.

-t
     
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Aug 30, 2010, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
E.g Dominos (IIRC). You get a certain amount of basic cheese underneath, but if you want more, it goes on top.

Also, local Italian restaurants tend to have "ground" (well, dunno what it's really called, the non-fresh version that doesn't come swimming in salted water) mozzarella underneath, but if you order a pizza with extra fresh mozzarella, it will go on top.

-t
Grated Cheese.

Most every pizza place I've eaten at chain wise, comes with mozzarella standard, other than ma and pa shops that try to be more authentic to italy.

Nothing beats a true pizza sauce with real fresh crushed tomatoes. Mmmmmm. Only one place does that in my town, best pizza here too!
     
turtle777
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Aug 30, 2010, 07:27 PM
 
Ha. I thought you'd call grated cheese only cheese that comes from hard cheeses (like parmesan).
Mozzarella is softer, but I guess it's still "grated".

-t
     
[email protected]  (op)
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Aug 30, 2010, 09:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Ha. I thought you'd call grated cheese only cheese that comes from hard cheeses (like parmesan).
Mozzarella is softer, but I guess it's still "grated".

-t
Correction: Hard Cheeses are grated, soft cheeses are shredded, at least that's the verbage we use in my area.
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turtle777
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Aug 30, 2010, 11:17 PM
 
Finally. Shredded was the term I was looking for. Geez, brain fart. :-)

-t
     
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Aug 31, 2010, 12:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Finally. Shredded was the term I was looking for. Geez, brain fart. :-)

-t
I was going to make a joke about the German word for "shredded" being "geshredded," but Google Translate tells me it's "geschreddert." Seriously?

That sounds almost as bad to me as the separable prefix verb "upgraden," as in, "Ich habe mein Software upgegradet."

*Note: I realize that Google Translate is not always the best source, but it's not bad for quick and dirty translations. Until you get to translating Japanese or Chinese into English. Then you get bizarre results bordering on surreal.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 31, 2010, 01:17 AM
 
Geupgradet or upgegradet - either way, yuck.

But yeah, that's accurate.
     
Oisín
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Aug 31, 2010, 06:01 AM
 
Geupgradet?!

That’s bizarre.
     
turtle777
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Aug 31, 2010, 07:29 AM
 
Mein Gehirn has just been gedownshreddert

-t
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 31, 2010, 07:34 AM
 
Well, it's a loan word.

It doesn't make sense to split it just to build a perfect tense, any more than it would to say "Ich grade gerade up." So the correct form HAS to be "geupgradet" - if there is any such thing as a "correct" form here.

I really hate it when it's used as a verb in German. The noun "Upgrade" is fine, but the verb - what a headache.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 31, 2010, 07:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Mein Gehirn has just been gedownshreddert

-t
Apropos: "gedownloadet" or "downgeloadet"?

I say: neither.
     
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Aug 31, 2010, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Well, it's a loan word.

It doesn't make sense to split it just to build a perfect tense, any more than it would to say "Ich grade gerade up." So the correct form HAS to be "geupgradet" - if there is any such thing as a "correct" form here.

I really hate it when it's used as a verb in German. The noun "Upgrade" is fine, but the verb - what a headache.
I think since it's a loan word, the rules aren't hard and fast. Your use is the first time I've seen that it was not treated as a separable prefix verb. But over on the Facebook page for Navigon's iPhone app, I mostly saw Germans using it as a separable prefix verb. I saw upgegradet, upzugraden, etc...

Ah well, interesting, at any rate.
     
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Aug 31, 2010, 07:41 PM
 
....so my thread on my experiences in French Canada transmogrified into the the proper preparation of an iconic Italian dish, before sauntering into the oddities of German software upgrade language. Weird.

Originally Posted by Eug View Post
So you saw people buttering their pizza too?
No, but now I know why the girl at the pizza place thought I was asking for butter when I asked "for another" (I was asking for an additional napkin).
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Aug 31, 2010, 08:23 PM
 
Tell me, did they put salad dressing on their pizza in Montreal? If so, what kind?

I worked with a primarily English speaking CF captain for a while, and I found his accent quite interesting-some French flavor crept into what I easily recognized as Canadian English, but overall it was not nearly the Ontario English I expected. Is this other people's impression too?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Eug
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Aug 31, 2010, 08:59 PM
 
Lots of Ontarians are Francophone, and that seems esp. true in the military for some reason. Was he Francophone?

BTW, I know primarily English speakers who have a very slight French accent, presumably cuz they grew up in Quebec with one French parent and attended elementary school in French.

BTW, IMO Toronto English is the most generic English accent in Canada, but Torontonian English still has some characteristics that might make it recognizable as Canadian English. However, if an American TV channel were to look for a news anchor from Canada, it would seem the best place to look would be in Toronto, both because of the genericness of the accent, and because of the population base.
     
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Aug 31, 2010, 10:04 PM
 
The captain said Montreal was home, but I wouldn't have said his surname was "French." I didn't get into much more personal stuff than that-we were, after all, supposed to be working.

I grew up with 1960s CBC and Windsor local TV; I agree that Toronto is home to a far more generic accent which is very subtly "Canadian" without any glaring hallmarks. I visited Victoria BC last summer, and found that the predominant accent there was noticeably different-but I couldn't put my finger on any identifying characteristic. Kind of frustrating in a "mental exercise" (or maybe just "mental") sort of way.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Aug 31, 2010, 10:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Correction: Hard Cheeses are grated, soft cheeses are shredded, at least that's the verbage we use in my area.
I guess that's accurate, however, if I use a cheese grater to grate my mozza, then it's grated to me
     
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Sep 1, 2010, 09:59 AM
 
There exists many French communities in Ontario, particularly in the southern tip (Windsor/Detroit) and in the North Eastern parts of the province.

Growing up in one of these communities I could hardly speak English until the age of 11. That's when it was mandated by the government that English be taught at the grade six level.

Akin to the States, there are many flavours (dialects) of the French language. Here in the North our French is considered "slang" -a mixture of French with a teaspoon of English, we call it Frenglish.

In the South, their French has an Acadian background. And in Quebec there's a Parisian flavour blended in their localized style of expressions.

If you work for the Canadian government sector, you must be bilingual.



Factoids:
There existed several French communities in the States as well after the Great Deportation of Acadia in 1770-1775.

Napoleon (French Emperor) owned a big chunk of the USA which he sold for cheap before his exile in the early seventeen hundreds.
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