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besson3c
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Apr 17, 2012, 01:16 AM
 
I found this thing that says that it is good to drink 8 glasses of water a day, so I figure that I'll drink 16 so that I'll be even healthier!

So far so good, although I'm peeing a lot. I don't think I'm dehydrated though.
     
Snow-i
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Apr 17, 2012, 01:18 AM
 
I tried the same thing with "a glass of wine a day"...









Never been happier! Works like a charm!
     
P
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Apr 17, 2012, 03:19 AM
 
I realize that this is a joke, but drinking too much water is actually not good for you either.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
ghporter
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Apr 17, 2012, 06:41 AM
 
It sure isn't. Too much "throughput" tends to deplete important minerals. And frankly, the "8 glasses of water a day" thing has been debunked pretty thoroughly. Drink enough water so that you urinate regularly and you'll be fine. It is, however, much better to use water for hydration than any other drink.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 17, 2012, 08:06 AM
 
FYI, people have died from drinking too much water. Frat pranks etc.
     
mattyb
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Apr 17, 2012, 11:52 AM
 
Dunno how much a glass is, but you should drink at least 1 litre of water a day. My doctor recommends 2.
     
Athens
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Apr 17, 2012, 12:19 PM
 
Sacrilege!!!! You used metric language in here. The imperial gods will smite you....
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
el chupacabra
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Apr 17, 2012, 01:05 PM
 
I've got an even better health tip. I found this thing that says take $10 a day and put it in a health savings account. So I figure everyone should put $20 so they'll be even healthier.
     
ghporter
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Apr 18, 2012, 06:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
FYI, people have died from drinking too much water. Frat pranks etc.
It's called water intoxication.

Originally Posted by Wiki
Water intoxication, also known as water poisoning, is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside of safe limits (e.g., hyponatremia) by overhydration, i.e., over-consumption of water.


Air Force Basic Training is conducted at Lackland AFB, here in San Antonio. Since dehydration is such a problem with the physically demanding training conducted there, hydration is heavily stressed. We have had at least 2 trainees die in the last several years from water intoxication.

It takes a lot of water in a short time, and your body usually has to be under pretty serious stress otherwise, but over-hydrating is bad. You should drink enough water that you urinate regularly, and that your urine is not too concentrated (dark urine indicates concentration). Going much past that is asking for trouble.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
ebuddy
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Apr 18, 2012, 06:56 AM
 
Peeing light, sweet crude here.
ebuddy
     
abby
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Apr 18, 2012, 10:55 AM
 
yes. my mother is always saying that. it's really good for your health and your skin
     
Tiresias
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Apr 18, 2012, 11:34 AM
 
I read about the origin of the 8 glasses of water rule recently.

A group of German nutritionists in the 50s came up with the amount as the gross water intake required by the human body—but it included the water in the food one eats each day—that is, the H2O in your bowl of cereal, that apple, mash potato, steak, slice of watermelon, etc.

The total amount of water contained in the average daily intake of food is (as I can state with scientific exactitude) quite a bit. At any rate, the additional water one was required to drink each day to met the quota was considerably less than 8 glasses.

However, evil bottled water companies jumped on and popularized the standard in order to move units.

You know how it goes.
     
Eug
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Apr 18, 2012, 10:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Dunno how much a glass is, but you should drink at least 1 litre of water a day. My doctor recommends 2.
Your doctor should stop believing old wives' tales. (2 L is 8 cups.)
     
Lateralus
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Apr 18, 2012, 11:10 PM
 
Isn't this one of those things that also depends on body size and height? Not to mention climate (humidity, or lack thereof) and regular physical exertion.
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
     
gradient
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Apr 19, 2012, 03:30 AM
 
Well I'll say this: If I have only around 4-6 glasses of water in a day, I end up feeling dehydrated. Around 8 glasses is about right, for me.
     
ghporter
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Apr 19, 2012, 06:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
Isn't this one of those things that also depends on body size and height? Not to mention climate (humidity, or lack thereof) and regular physical exertion.
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. The proper metric is whether or not your body is processing water effectively and producing the proper amount and concentration of waste products. Dehydration cuts down on many things, including urine output, but over-hydration can cause the opposite as the body attempts to remove excess water through "whatever means necessary." Bad stuff.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
olePigeon
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Apr 19, 2012, 01:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c
I found this thing that says that it is good to drink 8 glasses of water a day...
The health tip is wrong. The recommendation is "1 milliliter or water per calorie of food. Most of this quantity is contained in prepared foods." That means most of the "8 glasses" is already in the food you're eating. For some reason the second half of that recommendation gets left out.

It's important to stay hydrated, especially during sports, but you don't need to drink 8 glasses a day.
Originally Posted by besson3c
...so I figure that I'll drink 16 so that I'll be even healthier!
I know you're being silly, but this is actually how a large portion of Americans think. 99% of people don't need to take vitamin supplements, yet 40% of Americans take them anyway. It's a ridiculous notion peddled by the food supplement industry. Because a little bit of a certain vitamin or protein is healthy, then obviously taking a bunch of it is even healthier!
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Waragainstsleep
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Apr 19, 2012, 02:30 PM
 
You sound like Dr. Sheldon Cooper.

You're correct, of course.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
el chupacabra
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Apr 20, 2012, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
99% of people don't need to take vitamin supplements, yet 40% of Americans take them anyway. It's a ridiculous notion peddled by the food supplement industry. Because a little bit of a certain vitamin or protein is healthy, then obviously taking a bunch of it is even healthier!
That would be true that you can get most vitamins from food if people still ate natural food; or for the ones that still manage to. But what most Americans eat really shouldn't qualify as food.

One example, while not vitamins... Supposedly we (and all animals) need omega fatty acids for proper development which come from oceanic plankton. They work their way up the food chain from small fish to large fish. The salmon, sturgeon and a few other come up the rivers by the millions and get eaten by birds, bears, coons etc by the millions, which in the end spreads the fish oils all over the forest and even into the plants. Of course with salmon and sturgeon, for all practical purpose on the verge of extinction, where is everything going to get its proper dosage of omegas 3s? How much fatty acids are making it inland today without eating strait ocean-run fish? I can post example with regard to vitamins as well but will spare a long post that no one really wants to read since people in general would rather just make up their mind for life on stuff they know little about, and would rather spend their time searching and digging for preaching to the choir articles to prove their rightness anyway.

Then again it's not really a big deal. Vitamins can make people healthier, and grow better in their youth, but generally a lack of them doesn't kill anyone.
the largest problem for Americans today is they eat too much food and dont have enough work to do to keep their heart healthy
     
olePigeon
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Apr 20, 2012, 01:47 PM
 
I'm getting dragged into this again, so I'll try to be brief.

There has been zero evidence that taking a multivitamin (even Flintstone's vitamins for your kids) does anything measurably helpful. It doesn't make you strong, it doesn't help you grow.

Every person is different, of course, but I'm talking about your average person. Even on the American diet you speak of, it's practically a non-issue. Diabetes or heart disease, sure, but not lack of vitamins. Keep in mind that healthy eating and lack of vitamins are two different things, though they do overlap. I don't want to downplay the importance of a healthy meal.

I'll make it really simple: don't take my word for it. Go talk to your doctor, he or she can run a blood test. You'll fast for 24 hours, they'll check your blood for any deficiency. Bam, you're done. I'll eat my hat if you're actually prescribed a supplemental vitamin. Not because you want them, but because you have a real medical need for supplementary vitamins.

I think it goes without saying that when I say "doctor," I mean your GCP with a medical degree. Not a "nutritionist" at a Vitamin Shoppe or GNC.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 20, 2012, 02:06 PM
 
My doctor (real with a degree and all) has prescribed at various times: iron, prenatals, vitamin D. Iron and Vitamin D were lab result = deficient. Prenatals weren't for a deficiency of course, more preventative deficiency, but while I was taking them my fingernails and hair were superstrong. Those are effects I could see.

Anecdotally, my husband swears by taking zinc at the early onset of a cold, and I've tried it too and am inclined to believe him.

There used to be lots of diseases from being vitamin deficient - scurvy for one. We have a lot more access to Vitamin C than in days of yore, but I bet there's plenty of people out there who don't eat real fruit or real juice.
     
olePigeon
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Apr 20, 2012, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
My doctor (real with a degree and all) has prescribed at various times: iron, prenatals, vitamin D. Iron and Vitamin D were lab result = deficient. Prenatals weren't for a deficiency of course, more preventative deficiency, but while I was taking them my fingernails and hair were superstrong. Those are effects I could see.
Yep, that's the best way to go. Sometimes people are low on iron or other specific vitamins. Iron is one of the more common deficiencies. Again, I can't stress enough to see your doctor before taking a bunch of random pills.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Anecdotally, my husband swears by taking zinc at the early onset of a cold, and I've tried it too and am inclined to believe him.
Please, please be careful, and don't use the nasal sprays. Zinc overdose will lead to a permanent loss of taste. I'm not joking, and I know one person personally who has had this happen. Zinc has been demonstrated to cause permanent loss of your sense of taste. All incidents were linked to nasal sprays.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
There used to be lots of diseases from being vitamin deficient - scurvy for one. We have a lot more access to Vitamin C than in days of yore, but I bet there's plenty of people out there who don't eat real fruit or real juice.
Maybe not, but there are lots of foods that are enriched with extra vitamins. Take a look at your packaged snacks next time. Even those precut Apples you get at McDonald's are enriched with vitamin C and D. Not that it can't happen, it's just pretty darn rare.

Even with your own personal experience, I doubt very much that a daily multivitamin would have fended off an iron deficiency. When you start taking iron supplements, it's usually a lot more than you'll ever get in a daily vitamin. More importantly, it's a controlled and appropriate amount, not just some random pill coupled with 100 other different amounts of vitamins.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
ghporter
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Apr 22, 2012, 08:03 AM
 
I'm not usually inclined to go merely by empirical evidence in something linked to health, but if I miss my vitamin in the morning, I feel exhausted by afternoon. The days I've missed don't come to my attention until I get home, feeling like crap, and notice the vitamin bottle sitting there next to the unused juice glass...I am confident that the tiredness does not come from an anti-placebo effect.

On the other hand, I have examined the research on "do they work or not" with vitamins and other supplements, and I am not very confindent in their research designs. The cohorts are not well selected nor well matched, and there is usually too much dependence on questionnaires versus before/after lab values.

I will continue to take my daily multivitamin, knowing how much my even slightly processed diet lacks in trace elements and a variety of nutrients.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Eug
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Apr 22, 2012, 08:59 AM
 
Sounds like placebo effect.
     
el chupacabra
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Apr 22, 2012, 11:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I'm not usually inclined to go merely by empirical evidence in something linked to health, but if I miss my vitamin in the morning, I feel exhausted by afternoon. The days I've missed don't come to my attention until I get home, feeling like crap, and notice the vitamin bottle sitting there next to the unused juice glass...I am confident that the tiredness does not come from an anti-placebo effect.

On the other hand, I have examined the research on "do they work or not" with vitamins and other supplements, and I am not very confindent in their research designs. The cohorts are not well selected nor well matched, and there is usually too much dependence on questionnaires versus before/after lab values.

I will continue to take my daily multivitamin, knowing how much my even slightly processed diet lacks in trace elements and a variety of nutrients.
When I first started taking vitamins I did it before bed; and I couldn't sleep. It took me a week to realize it was the vitamins so started taking them in morning and have more energy all day. The whole idea that we get proper vitamins in food is illogical. We're suppose to believe that our bodies don't manufacture 'all' vitamins so we get them in food, yet we're suppose to believe what ever plant or animal we eat 'does' manufacture all the vitamins... Certain things have to work their way into the food web and food that is grown in mass on exhausted depleted cropland, engineered only to add weight/bulk from nothing more than petroleum based fertilizer isn't going to have the levels it did in its more natural form. There's been tons of research on this... Not that there needs to be it's common sense. If you take any animal and feed it primarily 1 thing most its life it will either be stunted or die. We humans don't eat just 1 thing but we farmed things that were fed just 1 thing their whole life. Farmed salmon vs wild is a very easily observable example in difference in nutrition.
the largest problem for Americans today is they eat too much food and dont have enough work to do to keep their heart healthy
     
knifecarrier2
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Apr 23, 2012, 01:01 AM
 
Also, order the regular crunchy tacos fresco style. Removes tons of fat and 25% of calories, tastes better anyway.
     
olePigeon
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Apr 23, 2012, 01:45 PM
 
There have been several smaller studies with mixed results, and it mostly boiled down to specific conditions: women who are pregnant or were pregnant, people suffering from osteoporosis, anemia, etc. However, a huge international study in 2009 done with over 150,000 people over 10 years showed absolutely no benefit to taking a multivitamin. Likewise, an 11-year study concluded last year in 2011 with even larger 180,000 person sample, and came to the same conclusion. The FDA has a good writeup on vitamins, but note the most important sentence at the beginning of the page: "your doctor may recommend you take them." They fit a specific need.

Remember, Federal Law does not require dietary supplements to prove that they're safe. I would think that alone would make people stop and think before popping a multivitamin. The FDA garnered the attention of the Government Accountability Office when people started dying after taking ephedra. It took 10 years to get ephedra banned. The FDA argued (and rightly so) that they couldn't ban ephedra because it was labeled as a dietary supplement. They need more oversite. The FDA has been trying for a very long to be able to regulate the industry, but the lobbyists have been very successful at preventing it from happening.

Since the FDA can't regulate them, they've now been testing and releasing reports since 2007. You know what they found? Of the 324 randomly sampled supplements (remember, this includes name brand products like Centrum, Herbalife, etc.) only four didn't contain lead. Four. 16 out of 40 supplements contained pesticide levels that exceeded Federal guidelines. That's that's nearly half of all the dietary supplements.

Here's a good read at Forbes that sums up my opinion on the supplement industry. Honestly, it's not really the studies that interested me so much as the response from the industry groups. You have a quack telling people to do the exact opposite of what a long, large study concluded you shouldn't do.

I'm admittedly biased against the alternative medicine industry, so take it how you will.

By the way, if you're feeling terrible in the afternoon after not taking a multivitamin, then maybe you should see your doctor. It could be signs of something more serious, or it could simply be a nocebo.

Of course, one of my favorite comics that illustrates the alternative medicine industry beautifully, and the point he makes in the hover text:

"I just noticed CVS has started stocking homeopathic pills on the same shelves with--and labeled similarly to--their actual medicine. Telling someone who trusts you that you're giving them medicine, when you know you’re not, because you want their money, isn’t just lying--it’s like an example you’d make up if you had to illustrate for a child why lying is wrong."

"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
olePigeon
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Apr 23, 2012, 03:40 PM
 
And I've derailed the thread again, so I won't post anymore.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
mattyb
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Apr 24, 2012, 04:39 AM
 
I found your post interesting, cheers for the links.
     
   
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