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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Move over antennagate, it's time for Bendghazi

Move over antennagate, it's time for Bendghazi (Page 3)
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Shaddim
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Sep 26, 2014, 07:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
It's not perceived quality, it's quality. I'm not speaking of the choice of aluminum as a material for the shell. I'm thinking of the plastic insets on the back which are flush with the rest of the body. I'm speaking of the curved glass transitioning perfectly into the shell. That's what I mean when I say that Apple products exude quality. (Again, this has nothing to do with plastic vs. metal.)

Especially when I know that certain competitor's products are not cheaper than Apple's own, I feel offended by some of their bad design choices.
Yes, it IS perceived, because some plastics can be more durable, and even more comfortable in the hand, but the perception is that aluminum is better all around, when it really isn't.

The iPod touch with a camera bump was designed when Jobs was still around.
An iPod Touch isn't a $1000 iPhone.

(Where's my mic drop?)

According to the commenter on reddit, it has nothing to do with the thickness of the device or the choice of material. It's just a matter of a lack of structural rigidity at a single point.
Which is a design flaw, especially when using a soft metal as your base. Yep.
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Shaddim
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Sep 26, 2014, 07:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
9 people out of 11 million have reported a problem and all of a sudden it's "poor design".

Yeah, within a day or two, and I don't trust Apple's numbers at all, especially since they supposedly have a "no questions asked" return policy on these. Amiright? Yep.
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Waragainstsleep
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Sep 26, 2014, 07:21 PM
 
Yeah there is no way in hell they implemented that policy on the basis of 9 complaints in 11 million.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Shaddim
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Sep 26, 2014, 09:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yeah there is no way in hell they implemented that policy on the basis of 9 complaints in 11 million.
Exactamundo.
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OreoCookie
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Sep 26, 2014, 09:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Yes, it IS perceived, because some plastics can be more durable, and even more comfortable in the hand, but the perception is that aluminum is better all around, when it really isn't.
I wrote explicitly in my last post that quality does not depend on the choice of materials (plastic versus aluminum). I gave examples of what I see as signs quality (assembly at very tight tolerances). Some of my toys/tools use high-quality plastic (e. g. dslr and my Fuji X100s have a metal/polycarbonate shell). I also never claimed aluminum is better than plastic.
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Which is a design flaw, especially when using a soft metal as your base. Yep.
The reddit contributor claimed that using plastic instead of alum wouldn't have made a difference on the overall structural rigidity. The only difference would have been the failure mode (shattering vs. bending).
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Shaddim
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Sep 26, 2014, 09:18 PM
 
But the perception is that alu is better than plastic, a perceived improvement in quality, due to greater aesthetics. (aka. "Form over function.")

Which contributes to my comment that it's just too thin. It's a poor design, especially for durability.
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starman
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Sep 26, 2014, 09:40 PM
 

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Shaddim
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Sep 26, 2014, 10:39 PM
 
What it shows is there are consistency issues, possibly between batches, the nerds still bent the phones with their bare hands, and my local store told me this evening that they've replaced 2 "warped" iP6s already. So, while it's good that some are stronger than others (55lbs is way too low to test for), obviously not all are being built alike.

Another, and with even less effort than the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3Ds6uf0Yg
( Last edited by Shaddim; Sep 27, 2014 at 12:07 AM. )
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Waragainstsleep
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Sep 27, 2014, 06:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yeah there is no way in hell they implemented that policy on the basis of 9 complaints in 11 million.
I'm going to add that I've seen Apple refuse to acknowledge issues where I personally have seen more than 9 examples.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 27, 2014, 10:31 AM
 
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777
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Sep 27, 2014, 11:13 AM
 
At this point, the most likely explanation is that the quality / materials used are inconsistent, causing some iPhones to be of inferior strength.

Apple will fix this for sure. And since they have a very generous return / exchange policy, I don't think this should be an issue holding people back from buying a new iPhone 6.

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CharlesS
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Sep 27, 2014, 01:10 PM
 
Consumer Reports did some formal testing on this, and Apple will be happy to know that the iPhone 6 isn't the most bendable phone around; the HTC One M8 is. The amount of force needed to deform went like this:

HTC One M8: 70 lbs to deform, 90 lbs to separate the case
iPhone 6: 70 lbs to deform, 100 lbs to separate the case
iPhone 6 Plus: 90 lbs to deform, 110 lbs to separate the case
LG G3: 130 lbs to deform, 130 lbs to separate the case
iPhone 5: 130 lbs to deform, 150 lbs to separate the case
Galaxy Note 3: 150 lbs to deform, 150 lbs to separate the case

Not sure why they didn't do some other conspicuously popular smartphones like the GS5 and the Moto X, but there you go.

Source: iPhone 6 And 6 Plus Bend Test - Consumer Reports News

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OAW
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Sep 27, 2014, 02:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Okay, angry man, whatever. No one has been carrying around larger phones in their pants pockets (and everyone wears jackets all year round), it's all been my imagination that I've been doing that for years now (yes, it would fit fine in the second pic you posted, which was my whole point, thanks). Keep screaming, makes you look terribly sane... shows the issues you have in other places around here as well. I can just imagine you foaming at the mouth, freaking out over the precious fruit company making something so imperfect. I was wrong, the nature of Apple fans is worse than others, because you can't even admit that anything is wrong with this product. Find help.
As usual when confronted with these little things we call facts you resort to irrelevant comments about what you erroneously suppose my emotional state to be. Deflection at its finest.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Sep 27, 2014 at 04:33 PM. )
     
Shaddim
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Sep 27, 2014, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
As usual when confronted with these little things we call facts you resort to irrelevant comments about what you erroneously suppose my emotional state to be. Deflection at its finest.

OAW
QQ angry man, QQ. Keep powering that distortion field.
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OAW
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Sep 27, 2014, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
QQ angry man, QQ. Keep powering that distortion field.
I see you are highly motivated to persist with your deflection. Which is understandable considering the fact that you certainly aren't the first person in the world who has lacked the intellectual maturity to simply acknowledge when they are on the losing side of the argument. Unfortunately for you, I have neither the time nor the inclination to take the bait. So I will ask you a simple question point blank. If a phone is so big that when it is resting at the bottom of your front pocket the top of the phone still reaches your hipbone or further like this ....



… do you think that it would be a good idea to sit down with that phone in your pocket given the physical strain on the device that would undoubtedly ensue? Yes or no?

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Sep 27, 2014 at 08:32 PM. )
     
Shaddim
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Sep 27, 2014, 09:05 PM
 
That's not the full depth of that pocket, see the wrinkle ~2" below the phone? That's where the bottom of it is. My 6+ fits in my Levi's with another 1" to spare, without any of the phone sticking out, but keep talking about something you don't even own.
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iMOTOR
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Sep 27, 2014, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
What it shows is there are consistency issues, possibly between batches, the nerds still bent the phones with their bare hands, and my local store told me...
     
OAW
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Sep 27, 2014, 09:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
That's not the full depth of that pocket, see the wrinkle ~2" below the phone? That's where the bottom of it is. My 6+ fits in my Levi's with another 1" to spare, without any of the phone sticking out, but keep talking about something you don't even own.
Steady ducking and dodging a simple question I see.

In any event, these jeans clearly have a bunch of wrinkles in them ...



... but apparently you have x-ray vision or something that allows you to conclude that the bottom of the pocket is 2 inches lower where one particular wrinkle is and the phone is hanging out of his pocket just for sh*ts and grins. So ok ... let's roll with that for the sake of discussion. If that were the case then when seated the iPhone 6+ would be laying flat along the thigh and NOT pressing up against the torso. So that would mean there is no physical strain that might cause it to bend right? Which then begs the question ... do you really think the iPhone 6+ is getting bent by simply laying flat in a pocket with no upward and downward pressure? Yes or no?

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Sep 27, 2014 at 10:10 PM. )
     
Shaddim
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Sep 28, 2014, 12:09 AM
 
Pockets are usually more than 4" deep on jeans, obviously the phone is being held up by pressure at the opening of the pocket. If you had one you could try it out for yourself.

However, yes, if the phone were designed properly it should still be able to handle that pressure, even in that position. It should handle being carried in any pants pocket, because that's how most people carry them. There's nothing wrong with it either and Apple should be designing the phones to fit that situation, but they didn't. Yet again, because of some aesthetic that they want to enforce, (this time they made the thing too thin) they want to change the way someone carries, handles, or uses the device they purchase, and that's bullshit. The fact is, if it were 1mm thicker it wouldn't have hurt anything, on the contrary it would have made several other things better (more battery space, no unsightly camera bulge), but that's not what they do. If you want something from the great Fruit Company you must conform and comply with their demands, and wherever the shepherd leads... etc. etc. I know, you can't believe that, saying something inane about "common sense", but "common sense" would be a company making something that fits the need, not the other way around. (Duh?)

How will Apple eventually handle this? They'll send out cases to 6+ owners, something thin that will make it less susceptible to "the bends", which is ridiculous because they should have designed it properly from the get go.
( Last edited by Shaddim; Sep 28, 2014 at 12:21 AM. )
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Shaddim
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Sep 28, 2014, 12:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by iMOTOR View Post
How else do you explain the guy from Unbox Therapy bending numerous 6+ phones so easily with his bare hands? He's no body builder (far from it) and he sure as hell isn't exerting over 100lbs of force with his thumbs. No, we have some musclebound dude on some news show seemingly huffing and puffing trying to bend one and Apple inviting Consumer Reports to a lab (that Apple setup) and CR then accepting everything Apple is telling them. Because, "who wouldn't trust Apple?" apparently.

Hey, ultimately, it doesn't matter, people will bend them and Apple will replace them. The uproar from "the Faithful" over some people daring to say that the new iPhone is somehow flawed? That's a hoot.
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Sep 28, 2014, 01:00 AM
 
No offense mate, but the real hoot is watching fAndroids, people who feel the need to defend their choice of mobile platform so desperately, and people who general don't like Apple get so emotional and bent out of shape about it (like they did with every other '-gate').

Just a lot of noise ... useless noise.
     
Shaddim
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Sep 28, 2014, 01:31 AM
 
If you don't see that there's been crap both ways, then... There's been idiocy from both quarters.

Fandroids: "iPhones are junk made from aluminum foil!"
iSheep: "There's nothing wrong with it, why would you keep a phone in your pocket?!"

Irrationality abounds.
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starman
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Sep 28, 2014, 03:24 AM
 
No, the Fandroids are far more defensive vocal.

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Aron Peterson
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Sep 28, 2014, 07:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yeah there is no way in hell they implemented that policy on the basis of 9 complaints in 11 million.
Right people go cray cray over nothing. Don't realise that sites and youtube channels need hits to earn advertising bucks. Breaking, bending, dropping and blending phones attracts public attention. You can break anything if you really want but it won't reflect real world use in nearly every case.
Web dev, Poe, faux-naïf, keyboard warrior, often found imitating online contrarians . My stuff : DELL XPS, iPhone 6
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 28, 2014, 08:19 AM
 
Apple typically ignores the crazy overreactions to a fault. Things have to get worse then they should before Apple will issue any sort of acknowledgement or REP.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Shaddim
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Sep 28, 2014, 09:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
No, the Fandroids are far more defensive vocal.
The Fandroids use hyperbole, then the iSheep get defensive. They're just electronic devices (mostly toys), if you're telling people to shut up and raging over them, then you're way too emotionally invested.
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Waragainstsleep
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Sep 28, 2014, 11:44 AM
 
I have tended to notice its the Fandroids that go on the attack typically. Sometimes they are "provoked" by Apple fans evangelising but the negativity and rage always starts from the Apple haters.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
starman
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Sep 28, 2014, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I have tended to notice its the Fandroids that go on the attack typically. Sometimes they are "provoked" by Apple fans evangelising but the negativity and rage always starts from the Apple haters.
This. Very much this.

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Shaddim
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Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I have tended to notice its the Fandroids that go on the attack typically. Sometimes they are "provoked" by Apple fans evangelising but the negativity and rage always starts from the Apple haters.
Not always, other forums and Twitter are loaded with overly defensive Apple fans.
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starman
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Sep 28, 2014, 03:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Not always, other forums and Twitter are loaded with overly defensive Apple fans.
You obviously don't spend time on Google+.

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OAW
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Sep 28, 2014, 03:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Pockets are usually more than 4" deep on jeans, obviously the phone is being held up by pressure at the opening of the pocket. If you had one you could try it out for yourself.
Perhaps on the mom jeans you wear. Suffice it to say that I and millions of other people have jeans that don't fit this description.

Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
However, yes, if the phone were designed properly it should still be able to handle that pressure, even in that position. It should handle being carried in any pants pocket, because that's how most people carry them.
First and foremost you are contradicting yourself. Above you intimate that the iPhone is hanging out of the guy's pocket because it's being "held up by the pressure at the opening of the pocket". IOW, this and all the other pictures you see of the iPhone 6+ extending beyond the opening of the pocket are just "staged" or something for some strange and unknown reason. Which begs the question, why would anyone walk around or sit with the iPhone 6+ hanging out of their pocket like that if it was deep enough for it to be placed completely inside? And if it did fit completely inside the pocket then as I said earlier there would be no issue sitting down with it because there would be no downward pressure from it jamming into one's torso. You go on to say "it should handle being carried in any pants pocket" which is a nonsensical statement at best. At some point a device is going to be too large to fit in the pockets of a particular pair of pants. Because different pants have different sized pockets! The iPhone 6 is 5.44" tall and 2.64" wide. And the iPhone 6+ is 6.22" tall and 3.06" wide. Which is PRECISELY why there are articles like these all over the internet:

As supersized smartphones from Samsung continue to get more and more unwieldy, it’s not just rival handset makers that are being forced to rework their offerings in response. A recent report draws attention to an interesting phenomenon brought on by the phablet craze currently sweeping the world: Smartphones have become so massive that clothing companies actually have to reengineer their pants in order to accommodate these huge new handsets.
Phablet Size Study: Supersized Smartphones Now Too Big For Pants | BGR

Phones Are a Big-Screen Hit but a Bit of a Fashion Challenge - WSJ

Apple's Huge New Phones Could Bring Back Cargo Pants

Silly phablets, pockets are for regular phones | ITworld

Will The iPhone 6 Plus Fit Into Women's Jeans Pockets? - Business Insider

All I'm saying is that if you have pockets that can accommodate a big ass phablet then more power to you! I'm sure you will have no issues with the device getting damaged when standing, sitting, whatever. But if you CHOOSE to try and force a big ass phablet into a pocket that it does NOT fit into and it ends up getting damaged when you sit down ... then you don't have a leg to stand on because that is simply NOT a common use case considering the fact that most people have enough sense not to do that. IJS

OAW
     
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Sep 28, 2014, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Not always, other forums and Twitter are loaded with overly defensive Apple fans.
The Apple fans get defensive, but they are usually given something to be defensive about.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Aron Peterson
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Sep 28, 2014, 06:30 PM
 
Phablets need a new phablet shirt pocket. End of the story, check please.
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subego
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Sep 28, 2014, 07:03 PM
 
A phocket.
     
Phileas
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Sep 28, 2014, 08:19 PM
 
Consumer Report just weighed in with an independent test, finds that the iPhone doesn't bend more or less than other cellphones.

The End.
     
Shaddim
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Sep 28, 2014, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
You obviously don't spend time on Google+.
I really don't.

Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Perhaps on the mom jeans you wear. Suffice it to say that I and millions of other people have jeans that don't fit this description.



First and foremost you are contradicting yourself. Above you intimate that the iPhone is hanging out of the guy's pocket because it's being "held up by the pressure at the opening of the pocket". IOW, this and all the other pictures you see of the iPhone 6+ extending beyond the opening of the pocket are just "staged" or something for some strange and unknown reason. Which begs the question, why would anyone walk around or sit with the iPhone 6+ hanging out of their pocket like that if it was deep enough for it to be placed completely inside? And if it did fit completely inside the pocket then as I said earlier there would be no issue sitting down with it because there would be no downward pressure from it jamming into one's torso. You go on to say "it should handle being carried in any pants pocket" which is a nonsensical statement at best. At some point a device is going to be too large to fit in the pockets of a particular pair of pants. Because different pants have different sized pockets! The iPhone 6 is 5.44" tall and 2.64" wide. And the iPhone 6+ is 6.22" tall and 3.06" wide. Which is PRECISELY why there are articles like these all over the internet:



Phablet Size Study: Supersized Smartphones Now Too Big For Pants | BGR

Phones Are a Big-Screen Hit but a Bit of a Fashion Challenge - WSJ

Apple's Huge New Phones Could Bring Back Cargo Pants

Silly phablets, pockets are for regular phones | ITworld

Will The iPhone 6 Plus Fit Into Women's Jeans Pockets? - Business Insider

All I'm saying is that if you have pockets that can accommodate a big ass phablet then more power to you! I'm sure you will have no issues with the device getting damaged when standing, sitting, whatever. But if you CHOOSE to try and force a big ass phablet into a pocket that it does NOT fit into and it ends up getting damaged when you sit down ... then you don't have a leg to stand on because that is simply NOT a common use case considering the fact that most people have enough sense not to do that. IJS

OAW
There's that wall of text, I was wondering when it would pop up. I'll skim it but I'm not reading all that.

Phones usually go in pockets and Apple needed to ensure that the design was more pocket friendly. It's a flawed design based on them putting form over function (too thin). Period.
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Shaddim
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Sep 28, 2014, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
The Apple fans get defensive, but they are usually given something to be defensive about.
Someone said their beloved iPhones are flawed?

Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Consumer Report just weighed in with an independent test, finds that the iPhone doesn't bend more or less than other cellphones.

The End.
That was already addressed here.
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Waragainstsleep
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Sep 28, 2014, 08:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
A phocket.

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OAW
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Sep 28, 2014, 09:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I really don't.



There's that wall of text, I was wondering when it would pop up. I'll skim it but I'm not reading all that.

Phones usually go in pockets and Apple needed to ensure that the design was more pocket friendly. It's a flawed design based on them putting form over function (too thin). Period.
Spoken like someone with no comeback. Here it is short and sweet since a PARAGRAPH is apparently too intellectually challenging for you. If you sit down with a big ass phablet in a pocket where it doesn't fit and it ends up damaged ... then you are are simply an IDIOT. Period.

OAW
     
Shaddim
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Sep 28, 2014, 11:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Spoken like someone with no comeback. Here it is short and sweet since a PARAGRAPH is apparently too intellectually challenging for you. If you sit down with a big ass phablet in a pocket where it doesn't fit and it ends up damaged ... then you are are simply an IDIOT. Period.

OAW
You habitually fill up a lot of space, while saying nothing. I don't have time for that.

They made a phone that fits in the pocket (even if the top sticks out a little in some shallower pockets), but doing so puts it at risk of being severely bent. It's flawed. That's where millions of people carry their phones and they should have allowed for that. EOD.

And yeah, that goes for any phone in that situation, from any maker.
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Sep 28, 2014, 11:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I have tended to notice its the Fandroids that go on the attack typically. Sometimes they are "provoked" by Apple fans evangelising but the negativity and rage always starts from the Apple haters.
QFT. (based on my observations on other tech news sites)

As an example, just have a look at the vitriol in the comments section of this article on CNET ...(Consumer Reports' flex test puts new bent on fuss over squashed iPhones - CNET)

I wouldn't recommend replying or engaging with those idiots; it is completely pointless.
     
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Sep 28, 2014, 11:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Phones usually go in pockets and Apple needed to ensure that the design was more pocket friendly. It's a flawed design based on them putting form over function (too thin). Period.
Yeah, bad on Apple for those nine reports...

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OAW
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Sep 28, 2014, 11:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You habitually fill up a lot of space, while saying nothing. I don't have time for that.

They made a phone that fits in the pocket (even if the top sticks out a little in some shallower pockets), but doing so puts it at risk of being severely bent. It's flawed. That's where millions of people carry their phones and they should have allowed for that. EOD.

And yeah, that goes for any phone in that situation, from any maker.
So basically we can take Shaddim's word for it based on some dude on YouTube looking for page views and a bunch of retweets of the same HANDFUL of claims ... or we can take the word of the INDEPENDENT TESTING conducted by Consumer Reports. Ok. So let me be clear where I stand on this. I think you are completely full of sh*t on the issue. And something tells me that I'm not alone in that assessment. So let's agree on this note … EOD.

OAW
     
unicast reversepath
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Sep 28, 2014, 11:57 PM
 
Wow, only took three (four?) pages for this to devolve into a troll-fest!

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turtle777
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Sep 29, 2014, 12:07 AM
 
You must be new here.

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unicast reversepath
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Sep 29, 2014, 12:34 AM
 
that, or just in a really really sarcastic mood!
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Shaddim
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Sep 29, 2014, 01:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Yeah, bad on Apple for those nine reports...
You really believe it's 9, even after the statement that they now have a new zero questions asked policy on bent phones (within 3 days)?

Originally Posted by OAW View Post
So basically we can take Shaddim's word for it based on some dude on YouTube looking for page views and a bunch of retweets of the same HANDFUL of claims ... or we can take the word of the INDEPENDENT TESTING conducted by Consumer Reports. Ok. So let me be clear where I stand on this. I think you are completely full of sh*t on the issue. And something tells me that I'm not alone in that assessment. So let's agree on this note … EOD.

OAW
and I think it's been proven that your axe to grind with me is screwing with your mind, so now you're just personally going after me in multiple forums.

Oh, and there you go distorting things... again. Consumer reports based the results on a small sample (one phone), hell, at least the guy on Youtube bent two of them. You're willing to base your "facts" on one phone tested by CR (where did they get it from?) and a statement from Apple themselves, which is more than a little odd in several ways.

Tell you what, if CR goes out and buys a dozen phones from different vendors, from all over the US, tests them, and comes out with the same results, I'll put some faith in what they find out. How's that? That's not unusual for them, they've done that sort of thing before.
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Shaddim
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Sep 29, 2014, 01:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by unicast reversepath View Post
Wow, only took three (four?) pages for this to devolve into a troll-fest!

a discussion is a "trollfest"? Just because someone disagrees doesn't mean they're trolling. IMO, trolling would include, I don't know... something like personal attacks and name-calling, out of the blue.
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Jawbone54
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Sep 29, 2014, 11:14 AM
 
Things bend when we sit on them, especially when we're on the husky side. It's not a story.

Let's all agree to take the Plus out of our back pockets before sitting down, and everything will be fine.
     
Shaddim
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Sep 29, 2014, 12:37 PM
 
It's not about sitting on the phone, the issue is sitting with the phone in your front pocket.
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