[besson3c]

I'm *really* disturbed by this story. Regardless of whether you like her politics or not, obviously shooting her point blank in the head and shooting 12 others on her staff as well is not good for our democracy particularly when this event was an open "meet your Congress person" sort of event. I'm sure this does not bode well for events of this nature in the future.

We don't know the motivations of the gunman yet, but their is speculation that he was some tea party nut.

Arizona Rep. Giffords Shot; Condition Unclear : NPR

[Snow-i]

She is in my thoughts and prayers.

Let us remember that regardless of how you may feel about politics, we are all God's children and there is no room in this country for such senseless destruction. I'm pulling for you, Congresswoman and for the other 11 caught up in this despicable act of violence.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

We don't know the motivations of the gunman yet, but their is speculation that he was some tea party nut.

By whom? Anyone other than left blogs?

Reading Twitter and believing what either side says politically at the moment is despicable.

[Athens]

Violence is never a good solution. I hope she pulls through but if she does her life is for ever changed. Stuff like this just causes reactionary policies making government even less accessible to the public.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

By whom? Anyone other than left blogs?

Reading Twitter and believing what either side says politically at the moment is despicable.

The New York Post:

Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, wept when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies.
"Yeah," he told The Post. "The whole tea party."

This is only relevant to me because of all of the calls for guns and extremism that have seemed to originate from factions of this movement, particularly if it spawns copycat sort of murders.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This is only relevant to me because of all of the calls for guns and extremism that have seemed to originate from factions of this movement, particularly if it spawns copycat sort of murders.

A federal judge was killed that was appointed by bush. I am going to come to the conclusion before i hear any facts that it must be a left wing, bush hating nut.

Your turn.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

A federal judge was killed that was appointed by bush. I am going to come to the conclusion before i hear any facts that it must be a left wing, bush hating nut.

Your turn.

Stop being a reactionary d-bag. I'm not saying that left wing Bush hating nuts are not capable of violence, or that violence is the exclusive domain of any particular group. I'm just saying that I hope that this isn't a sign of more incidents like this, since if it is true that this was tea party originated we know that this organization was popular enough to be nationally recognized.

[ironknee]

[Laminar]

Wow, can't even go one post before the typical "IT WUZ A LIBURAL/CONVERVUHTIVE" argument. Well done.

[besson3c]

Tell me about it, mentioning the *speculation* of the tea party affiliation (and I was specific enough to label it as such) was really not the main thrust behind my post.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Stop being a reactionary d-bag. I'm not saying that left wing Bush hating nuts are not capable of violence, or that violence is the exclusive domain of any particular group. I'm just saying that I hope that this isn't a sign of more incidents like this, since if it is true that this was tea party originated we know that this organization was popular enough to be nationally recognized.

You know EXACTLY what you were trying to do with that first post. If you cared about anything but the politics of the situation, you would have simply made your condolences and left. As per usual of your type, you are trying to make this political BEFORE any of the facts are produced by those investigating.

It may be a tea-partier, but there is simply NO reason to worry about that TODAY.

[besson3c]

Whatever...

I just hope that this is not the beginning of more acts of this nature, or the beginning of some new movement and/or organized terrorist group.

[The Final Dakar]

besson, you are the biggest ****ing hypocrite. You post this thread and immediately spin it into a left vs. right mentality, which you made a name for youself complaining about and that's bad enough without getting into the heart of the matter which is people died here.

Had this been a republican shot by a "dark-skinned" person and "speculation" was that it was a muslim, instead you'd be in here crying that we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions and we should wait until all the facts are in.

So seriously, do all of us and yourself a favor and stay the **** out of the PL until you can at least cobble together an illusion of objectivity because you are the biggest hypocritical and transparent piece of shit starting threads in the PL today, and it's stench is so over-powering I felt compelled enough to post on a Saturday.

(And I'll take this infraction happily)

[turtle777]

Let me make a prediction:

No matter what and who (Rep or Dem), this is going to happen more and more often. Why ?

Because people are f*cking pissed at all those corrupt politicians that bankrupt our country.
The US has come to a point where politicians are NOT representing the will of the people anymore.

Like Gerald Celente likes to say: "When People Lose Everything, They Have Nothing Left To Lose, And They Lose It”.

-t

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

You know EXACTLY what you were trying to do with that first post. If you cared about anything but the politics of the situation, you would have simply made your condolences and left. As per usual of your type, you are trying to make this political BEFORE any of the facts are produced by those investigating.

It may be a tea-partier, but there is simply NO reason to worry about that TODAY.

I think your reading more into the original post then was intended.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

besson, you are the biggest ****ing hypocrite. You post this thread and immediately spin it into a left vs. right mentality, which you made a name for youself complaining about and that's bad enough without getting into the heart of the matter which is people died here.

Had this been a republican shot by a "dark-skinned" person and "speculation" was that it was a muslim, instead you'd be in here crying that we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions and we should wait until all the facts are in.

So seriously, do all of us and yourself a favor and stay the **** out of the PL until you can at least cobble together an illusion of objectivity because you are the biggest hypocritical and transparent piece of shit starting threads in the PL today, and it's stench is so over-powering I felt compelled enough to post on a Saturday.

(And I'll take this infraction happily)

I think you need to take a breath and go for a little walk.

[besson3c]

So, now that we have sorted out who is a hypocrite, got some political bickering out of the way, Dakar got to blow off a little steam, maybe we can focus on the actual shootings?

[Athens]

Who wants to bet this will lead to more calls for tighter gun control as a reaction?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Who wants to bet this will lead to more calls for tighter gun control as a reaction?

Or at least hyper-intense security at any sort of public event where a politician or political group might be present.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Because people are f*cking pissed at all those corrupt politicians that bankrupt our country.
The US has come to a point where politicians are NOT representing the will of the people anymore.

I don't think we have *ever* heard this before from you. Why have you been holding out on us?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Let me make a prediction:

No matter what and who (Rep or Dem), this is going to happen more and more often. Why ?

Because people are f*cking pissed at all those corrupt politicians that bankrupt our country.
The US has come to a point where politicians are NOT representing the will of the people anymore.

Like Gerald Celente likes to say: "When People Lose Everything, They Have Nothing Left To Lose, And They Lose It”.

-t

I'm inclined to agree. The US has been driving towards revolution for several years now. The traditional signs of disappearing middle class and extreme political polarization have been present for awhile.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Or at least hyper-intense security at any sort of public event where a politician or political group might be present.

Will go well with cutting spending when incidents like this force additional security. Look at the Vancouver Olympics, due to 911 and other terrorist attacks around the world over the last couple decades we had to spend 1 Billion dollars on security for a month long event. And when you stop to think thats insane, the Gx summits held in Toronto this year as well spent 2 Billion on security for a 2 day event.

As a tax payer I can't even complain about the cost of security because its idiots like this assign that cause it. Who wants to be shot, so of course they will spend more and more on security. Idiots like this cost us all freedoms, access and money and most important the lives of the victim, the family and friends of the victim.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Let me make a prediction:

No matter what and who (Rep or Dem), this is going to happen more and more often. Why ?

Because people are f*cking pissed at all those corrupt politicians that bankrupt our country.
The US has come to a point where politicians are NOT representing the will of the people anymore.

Like Gerald Celente likes to say: "When People Lose Everything, They Have Nothing Left To Lose, And They Lose It”.

-t

This, right here, is the crux of the matter. Are things really so bad here that ordinary folks have no choice to get their voices heard than to shoot up their Congressmen?

It seems to me that the system is working fine: A lot of folks were angry at the Democratic congress, and the other side made big gains in the last election, because people got off their ass and voted. That's the way hings are supposed to work here. Will neither side be happy until they get everything they want, all the time, and shoot up the joint if they're unhappy? If so, then we've got big problems ahead.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I'm inclined to agree. The US has been driving towards revolution for several years now. The traditional signs of disappearing middle class and extreme political polarization have been present for awhile.

Yes, we will have a second Revolution, sooner or later. It's gonna be ugly.

Instead of independence from Britain, we're going to fight for independence from the ruling elite (Bankers, Politicians, Special Interests). We've come full circle: Taxation without representation.

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Looks like Palin has decided that cross-hairs map on her website was inappropriate.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

This, right here, is the crux of the matter. Are things really so bad here that ordinary folks have no choice to get their voices heard than to shoot up their Congressmen?

It seems to me that the system is working fine: A lot of folks were angry at the Democratic congress, and the other side made big gains in the last election, because people got off their ass and voted. That's the way hings are supposed to work here. Will neither side be happy until they get everything they want, all the time, and shoot up the joint if they're unhappy? If so, then we've got big problems ahead.

Good point.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Yes, we will have a second Revolution, sooner or later. It's gonna be ugly.

Instead of independence from Britain, we're going to fight for independence from the ruling elite (Bankers, Politicians, Special Interests). We've come full circle: Taxation without representation.

-t

Which could be interesting too since many of these banks and special interests and such are so convoluted in their structures that its hard to know who owns what and what ought to be targeted. Politicians are easy targets because they are recognizable semi-public individuals, although it is probably also hard to tell which of them are fairly benign and which are evil ****ers given all of the intense rhetoric and propaganda driven by both sides.

[andi*pandi]

This.

I was impressed with the respect her colleagues showed her in that article.

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

She is in my thoughts and prayers.

Let us remember that regardless of how you may feel about politics, we are all God's children and there is no room in this country for such senseless destruction. I'm pulling for you, Congresswoman and for the other 11 caught up in this despicable act of violence.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Instead of independence from Britain, we're going to fight for independence from the ruling elite (Bankers, Politicians, Special Interests). We've come full circle: Taxation without representation.

What's a Special Interest, exactly? DARPA paid for my Master's Degree. Am I a Special Interest? Am I going to be the first against the wall when the rEVOLution comes?

[besson3c]

Jesus Christ, you guys think our thread here is hostile, some of the comments on the Fox News post will make the hair on the back of your neck stand on end. According to Slashdot, the Fox guys to their credit are deleting stuff, but here is one I found, just for example:

Stupid Lib. got what she deserved

Rep. Giffords in Intensive Care After Being Shot in the Head at Public Event - FoxNews.com


Full disclaimer for my MacNN fans: I'm not saying that this sort of hate is the exclusive property of Fox, the right, the tea party, whatever. People in general can just be vile creatures.

[besson3c]

Here's another winner:

It is astounding how the Democrats fake that their outrage by today killing

when they are responsible for the murder of 51 million defenseless baby’s and

then they’ll ignore this commit because they have no defense!

[Dork.]

That guy was probably against the Ground Zero Mosk.

[Lateralus]

And science.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Tell me about it, mentioning the *speculation* of the tea party affiliation (and I was specific enough to label it as such) was really not the main thrust behind my post.

What do you mean, "Tell me about it"? My post was meant for you.

[glideslope]

1861.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Which could be interesting too since many of these banks and special interests and such are so convoluted in their structures that its hard to know who owns what and what ought to be targeted. Politicians are easy targets because they are recognizable semi-public individuals, although it is probably also hard to tell which of them are fairly benign and which are evil ****ers given all of the intense rhetoric and propaganda driven by both sides.

I agree.

But just wait till the first big TBTF CEO gets shot in public. It's gonna happen, sooner or later.

-t

[imitchellg5]

Who cares about what party it is? It's stupid and immature on every level.

[lpkmckenna]

Sarah Palin removed the crosshairs poster from her website: a tacit admission of a guilty conscience. She and others have fanned the flames of extremism and violence, bringing violent rhetoric into politics when none is needed.

There will always be crazy people. Those crazy people will kill other people. Flooding the political discourse with violent imagery means those crazy people will latch on to violent rhetoric and implement it, whether Palin intended it or not. When you sell a crazy message, don't act surprised when crazy people buy into it and act on it.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Because people are f*cking pissed at all those corrupt politicians that bankrupt our country.

The US is nowhere near backruptcy. Look at this graph:



The US public debt-to-GDP ratio is better than the era prior to WW2. Stop being so hysterical.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Sarah Palin removed the crosshairs poster from her website: a tacit admission of a guilty conscience. She and others have fanned the flames of extremism and violence, bringing violent rhetoric into politics when none is needed.

Removed today also from the Daily Kos.

Fine. Want to play the blame game, @markos, @xenijardin, @mat... on Twitpic

Again, what is the point of this argument TODAY? Why is everyone so quick to try and label this nut as anything but just that?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Will go well with cutting spending when incidents like this force additional security. Look at the Vancouver Olympics, due to 911 and other terrorist attacks around the world over the last couple decades we had to spend 1 Billion dollars on security for a month long event. And when you stop to think thats insane, the Gx summits held in Toronto this year as well spent 2 Billion on security for a 2 day event.

Can you point me to a breakdown of the $2B spent on security for the 2 day Gx summit?

Originally Posted by Athens 

As a tax payer I can't even complain about the cost of security because its idiots like this assign that cause it. Who wants to be shot, so of course they will spend more and more on security. Idiots like this cost us all freedoms, access and money and most important the lives of the victim, the family and friends of the victim.

At some point it's not worth it. Like the FAM program, which costs over a hundred million dollars per life saved.

[lpkmckenna]

Yes, Lint Police, anonymous bloggers and national politicians should be held to the same standard.

Finding crazy-peddlers, left or right, is easy. But we expect the political machine to weed out the crazy, not embrace it. Palin, Huckabee, the Tea Party, they are all indications that the GOP is embracing crazy instead of censuring it. The Democrats sideline their crazy-mongers, but lately the GOP is enshrining theirs.

How I long for the likes of Buckley, and curse this era of Rush, Coulter, Beck, and O'Reilly. (No one knows how the tides work? Really? And that proves God's existence? Really?)

[besson3c]

The O'Reilly tide-goes-in-tide-goes-out thing was more weird than anything, I think.

[lpkmckenna]

Giffords in May 2010: “Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they’ve gotta realize there are consequences to that action.”

Palin will never admit her words were reckless. Hell, she couldn't be bothered to correct her own children's vulgar language.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Wow, can't even go one post before the typical "IT WUZ A LIBURAL/CONVERVUHTIVE" argument. Well done.

I've heard news report after news report and hadn't once had to endure speculation on whether this is leftwing or rightwing craziness or part of this movement or that movement. From his You Tube smatterings the guy was anywhere from the Communist Manifesto to lamenting the passing of the gold standard and decidedly anti-religious. By all accounts a scatter-brained lunatic with disconnected thoughts and rants.

Can we leave it at that?

[Doofy]

Yep, just been to look at his YT account. Guy's a complete mental.

[besson3c]

Yes we can leave it at that. I'm comforted to know that this was just some mentally deranged guy and not somebody with just a hell of a lot of commitment to a common political ideology.

I'm glad this woman's Dad was wrong.

[OldManMac]

An update. Deplorable, no matter your political beliefs!

Arizona Congresswoman Shot, At Least 5 Killed - Detroit Local News Story - WDIV Detroit

[Athens]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Can you point me to a breakdown of the $2B spent on security for the 2 day Gx summit?



At some point it's not worth it. Like the FAM program, which costs over a hundred million dollars per life saved.

I need to make a correction its was 980 Million on security the entire summit was 1.3 Billion. The government has not released detailed numbers on the 980 million. $450 million was to the RCMP alone. A security fence was 5.5 Million. Beyond that im not sure what the break down is. Its still a hot topic here sooner or later the Info will come out.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Yes we can leave it at that. I'm comforted to know that this was just some mentally deranged guy and not somebody with just a hell of a lot of commitment to a common political ideology.

I'm glad this woman's Dad was wrong.

If you had to guess, what would be his common political ideology? Others might be able to leave it at that, but you couldn't. The article you cited referenced none of those things that would put him in stark contrast with the Tea Party; things he specifically wanted you to know about himself such as his interests in flag burning, mein kampf, the communist manifesto, and strong feeling against god and religion. Where in your article did you get the whole tea party reference anyway?