[Tiresias]

Somewhere in the Bible there's a bit about God's dark side. Something about "I am the light and the dark". Googling that brings up a lot of weird occult/yin-yang/new age stuff.

It seems like a passage that would have an important bearing on the problem of Theodicy, which I've been thinking about lately, but I can't track it down.

[Railroader]

I don't know what you are looking for.

A search at biblegateway.com with "dark light" comes up empty.

[Atomic Rooster]

Well he wanted a lot of people smited by the Jews. That's pretty dark sided.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

Well he wanted a lot of people smited by the Jews. That's pretty dark sided.

Is "smited" a word?

[Jawbone54]

Not really sure what you're looking for. I did an extensive search using QuickVerse, and I'm getting nothing back. Was it someone else that told you about it?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Person Man

Is "smited" a word?

That would be "smitten", but that word seems to have taken on a decidedly different meaning over the years than what it used to have.

Anyway, there are a few verses in which God sends evil spirits to torment people that he's angry at. Could that be what you're looking for?

BibleGateway.com - Passage�Lookup: 1 Samuel 16:14-16;
BibleGateway.com - Passage�Lookup: Judges 9:22-25;
BibleGateway.com - Passage�Lookup: 1 kings 22:21-23

[Chuckit]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." — Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)

[Jawbone54]

*ding*

Chuckit gets 5 points.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." — Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)

I'd say Isaiah had one too many mushrooms. I think he had a bad trip.

[olePigeon]

There's a cool part where God sends a bear and it kills 42 kids for making fun of a bald guy.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." — Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)

Wow, that is pretty interesting, and yes, I do image that it is pretty significant in any talk about God in Christianity.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

There's a cool part where God sends a bear and it kills 42 kids for making fun of a bald guy.

LOL!!

[quattrokid73]

the cover of my religion textbook from highschool was Jesus f*cking up the money changers with a whip, it was amazing!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." — Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)

And here's the Young's Literal:

Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.

[Jawbone54]

Another fun Scripture...

Ezekiel 4:9-15 (New Living Translation - I like the way it says it)

9“Now go and get some wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet, and spelt, and mix them together in a storage jar. Use this food to make bread for yourself during the 390 days you will be lying on your side.

10Ration this out to yourself, eight ounces of food for each day, and eat it at set times.

11Then measure out a jar of water for each day, and drink it at set times.

12Each day prepare your bread as you would barley cakes. While all the people are watching, bake it over a fire using dried human dung as fuel and then eat the bread.

13For this is what the LORD says: Israel will eat defiled bread in the Gentile lands, where I will banish them!”

14Then I said, “O Sovereign LORD, must I be defiled by using human dung? For I have never been defiled before. From the time I was a child until now I have never eaten any animal that died of sickness or that I found dead. And I have never eaten any of the animals that our laws forbid.”

15“All right,” the LORD said. “You may bake your bread with cow dung instead of human dung.”

I like the way that God, at the end of the passage, kind of rolls His eyes and says, "Fine, okay, okay...you can cook your meals with cow crap instead."

[Pierre Capretz II]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

9“Now go and get some wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet, and spelt, and mix them together in a storage jar. Use this food to make bread for yourself during the 390 days you will be lying on your side.

"highly" recommended!

[Dakar²]

I wonder what this thread will look like when I get to work in 6 and a half hours.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales 

Wow, that is pretty interesting, and yes, I do image that it is pretty significant in any talk about God in Christianity.

Incidentally, about the "evil" part: It's worth noting that the way the King James Version uses "evil" isn't the same way we use the word nowadays. It isn't a moral judgment — "evil" means "a harmful thing." A better translation would be something like "I make peace and I wreak havoc."

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

I like the way that God, at the end of the passage, kind of rolls His eyes and says, "Fine, okay, okay...you can cook your meals with cow crap instead."

Heh. Seems to be a running theme, that... ...God showing up and telling everyone that they're a bunch of morons.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Incidentally, about the "evil" part: It's worth noting that the way the King James Version uses "evil" isn't the same way we use the word nowadays. It isn't a moral judgment — "evil" means "a harmful thing." A better translation would be something like "I make peace and I wreak havoc."

I'm gonna run with "I make peace but I allow the possibility of evil".

[Cipher13]

The Bible could say "My name is God and I'm a ****ing asshole" and people would still twist it.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'm gonna run with "I make peace but I allow the possibility of evil".

I have a friend who is knowledgeable is Christian theology, and he gave me this link when I asked him about the particular quote in question. It does seem like we can't exactly take translated words from the Bible at face value, which is what makes taking the Bible literally all the more naive, it seems to me.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales 

I have a friend who is knowledgeable is Christian theology, and he gave me this link when I asked him about the particular quote in question. It does seem like we can't exactly take translated words from the Bible at face value, which is what makes taking the Bible literally all the more naive, it seems to me.

I like the preface in Young's, which states: The Word of God is made void by the traditions of men.

Go check Young's version of Genesis, where the word "prepared" is also used. Man is "prepared" in Genesis 1:27 yet "formed" in Genesis 2:7.
In this instance, Young's is the only version which actually makes any sense (if we take "prepared" and "formed" to be two different tasks).

Of course, I'm not a language scholar, but I know for sure that a lot of Christian tradition is substantially tainted by mankind. You've only got to observe how people twist passages from Romans to suit their lifestyle to see that in action.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." — Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)

Yes! That's it. Thanks a lot.

A Christian once quoted this at me when I gave her the ol' "If God's so good, how come people all over the earth are suffering" spiel. Left me speechless. (Maybe because I was 15).

But, strangely enough, I remembered about it the other day when I read this poem by William Blake... especially the second to last stanza: "Did he who made the lamb make thee?" It make me think... the lamb, light, a child—these things reflect the mind of God, but so do the million swarming scorpians, vipers, and serpents that pester the earth.

The Tyger
Tyger, tyger, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

In what distant deeps or skies
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand dare seize the fire?

And what shoulder and what art
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And when thy heart began to beat,
What dread hand and what dread feet?

What the hammer? what the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? What dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?

When the stars threw down their spears,
And water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile His work to see?
Did He who made the lamb make thee?

Tyger, tyger, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?

—William Blake (1757–1827)

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

There's a cool part where God sends a bear and it kills 42 kids for making fun of a bald guy.

God is such a bad-ass in the Old Testament.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

"smiteified"

[talisker]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

...I the LORD do all these things

Very good. He's got a bit of an ego though. Why not just say "that was me"?

[bstone]

G-d is everything. That's the basic idea. G-d can be nice and happy and all that and then be really cruel and mean. On the theological level, this is only our perception of G-d's attributes.

Judaism sees no seperation between G-d and all the bad stuff in the world (like Christianity and the devil). G-d encompasses the good, bad and ugly.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by bstone 

G-d is everything. That's the basic idea. G-d can be nice and happy and all that and then be really cruel and mean. On the theological level, this is only our perception of G-d's attributes.

Judaism sees no seperation between G-d and all the bad stuff in the world (like Christianity and the devil). G-d encompasses the good, bad and ugly.

Why do you write "G-d"? It's not like the word God is the Tetragrammaton.

[- - e r i k - -]

G-d? Come off it, even Christians roll their eyes at that one.

[Tiresias]

No, I was only asking cos I didn't know it was forbidden to write "God." I thought it was just forbidden to say "Yahweh". But obviously I'm wrong.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Tiresias 

No, I was only asking cos I didn't know it was forbidden to write "God." I thought it was just forbidden to say "Yahweh". But obviously I'm wrong.

I were replying to bstone, not you.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

\
I like the way that God, at the end of the passage, kind of rolls His eyes and says, "Fine, okay, okay...you can cook your meals with cow crap instead."

I think you MAY have taken that the wrong way.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

I wonder what this thread will look like when I get to work in 6 and a half hours.

A bunch of ignorant people mocking what they don't or refuse to understand.

Just like any religious thread in a forum were close minded bigoted people go to.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

A bunch of ignorant people mocking what they don't or refuse to understand.

Indeed. Like people who think atheism is a belief

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Tiresias 

A Christian once quoted this at me when I gave her the ol' "If God's so good, how come people all over the earth are suffering" spiel. Left me speechless. (Maybe because I was 15).

We didn't suffer at one time. Given a choice between everlasting happiness and suffering. The latter was chosen.

Read Genesis.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Indeed. Like people who think atheism is a belief

No, not the same at all. No one in here MOCKS and makes fun of atheist beliefs.

Though atheists do get their panties in a knot when they are reminded that they rely on faith as well. That isn't mocking their beliefs however. That is just pointing out what their beliefs rely on.

Agnostics however do not have faith either way.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

G-d? Come off it, even Christians roll their eyes at that one.

We do? No, no we do not. I would never want someone to do something they felt was sinning.

Stop being so bigoted.

[- - e r i k - -]

Way to prove my point there and contradicting yourself in one and the same post Kevin, you are truly outdoing yourself lately

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Way to prove my point there and contradicting yourself in one and the same post Kevin, you are truly outdoing yourself lately

Are you talking about the atheist comment? I wasn't mocking atheists in general like Christians are mocked in here.

I don't think anyone would complain if people would single out certain aspects of Christianity. But that isn't the case here.

When was the last time any Christian started an atheist thread mocking them like there are Christian threads of the like?

It simply does not happen. Why is that?

Why is it when Christianity is attacked Christians defend itself by defending Christianity.

When atheists are attacked they defend themselves by attacking Christianity.

Funny how that works.

[Atheist]

Reading the Bible in English is like watching a movie in black & white with sub-titles. Seeing that it was originally written in Hebrew and Greek and transcribed over and over... at times by barely literal people, it's difficult to determine just what the original text was intended to be. The early manuscripts were written with no spaces between the words and no punctuation....just a stream of letters. Imagine sitting for hours transcribing a text like that... and not making mistakes.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Reading the Bible in English is like watching a movie in black & white with sub-titles. Seeing that it was originally written in Hebrew and Greek and transcribed over and over... at times by barely literal people, it's difficult to determine just what the original text was intended to be. The early manuscripts were written with no spaces between the words and no punctuation....just a stream of letters. Imagine sitting for hours transcribing a text like that... and not making mistakes.

Actually the bibles today match up pretty well with the bible's of yesterday.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Stop being so bigoted.

Stop taking yourself so G-ddamn seriously all the time, no one is out to get you

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Stop taking yourself so G-ddamn seriously all the time

Me calling someone that is acting like a bigot, a bigot isn't me taking myself too seriously.

No more than someone calling someone that makes hateful comments about homosexuals homophobic.

no one is out to get you

I never said there was. Quit with these personal attack posts please.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Reading the Bible in English is like watching a movie in black & white with sub-titles. Seeing that it was originally written in Hebrew and Greek and transcribed over and over... at times by barely literal people, it's difficult to determine just what the original text was intended to be. The early manuscripts were written with no spaces between the words and no punctuation....just a stream of letters. Imagine sitting for hours transcribing a text like that... and not making mistakes.

The monks who were transcribing it probably really needed to get laid.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Are you talking about the atheist comment? I wasn't mocking atheists in general like Christians are mocked in here.

I don't think anyone would complain if people would single out certain aspects of Christianity. But that isn't the case here.

When was the last time any Christian started an atheist thread mocking them like there are Christian threads of the like?

It simply does not happen. Why is that?

You have a serious persecution problem.

People are singling out certain aspects of Christianity. I have no problem with religion as a whole, the basis for religion or people's personal faiths.

It's just that some of you take it so personal and seriously when the fallacies of your faith versus the "club-mentality" that organised religion brings with it are pointed out to you, that it just makes for interesting discussion.

I'd like to see either one of you sit down and try and refute arguments like this seriously instead of coming of like sore losers with a persecution-complex. Instead you roll your eyes all the while you are boiling inside, and then use the same tired arguments:

1) You don't understand us
2) There are no contradictions, you are just to stupid/faithless/blind to see it
3) I ignore you. Bigot!

Man, are contradictory emotions fun or what?

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Actually the bibles today match up pretty well with the bible's of yesterday.

I don't want to get into a pissing match on this... but there are literally hundreds of thousands of variations in the early biblical documents. The majority being insignificant, but people need to understand the origins of today's Bibles. I cringe when people take that stuff literally.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Nicko 

The monks who were transcribing it probably really needed to get laid.

The earliest scribes weren't monks. They were everyday people, and some where not even literate.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I never said there was. Quit with these personal attack posts please.

Likewise.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

You have a serious persecution problem.
*snip*

{edit} nevermind. I wont even bother with this derailing post of projection and hatefulness.

Reported.

[Mastrap]

B.K. (Before Kevin): Thread moves along beautifully, nobody argues.

A.K. (After Kevin): The bickering begins. Coincidence?

Anyway, the idea that God is light and dark is near universal. If, for example, you read the Tao Te Ching (the book of the way) you'll find that light and dark are thought to come from the same source. The same is true for many other religions.