[Gossamer]

...quick edit somehow became double post...

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

It is funny, but I don't like that they cheated on the 's'.

Close...looks like they cheated on the e/a.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Close...looks like they cheated on the e/a.

That's what I said.

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

It is funny, but I don't like that they cheated on the 'e'.

Edit: ZUNG reminds me of DUNG.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Brass 

The iPhone cannot do half of what the Newton used to be able to do.

Eg, draw pictures (and automatically straighten my lines, and make my circles perfect), enter text -

Killer feature. I really need that every day.

Originally Posted by Brass 

how are you going to write yourself a quick note with the iPhone, with no stylus and no keyboard?

You are kisdding, right ?

Originally Posted by Brass 

The iPhone appears to have little capacity for data entry, except to upload it from another computer (sync) periodically.

Again, kidding, right ?

WTF, dude ?

-t

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Close...looks like they cheated on the e/a.

hey you cheated also

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

hey you cheated also

By 'they' I meant whoever made the pic. If I had made it I would have at least gotten the logo right.

[typoon]

Dark helmet you are right. it is the Son of Newton.

Since this thing is Bluetooth I wonder if someone will create a word processor type app for it. Imagine then if you could pair your Apple BT keyboard with it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by typoon 

Dark helmet you are right. it is the Son of Newton.

Since this thing is Bluetooth I wonder if someone will create a word processor type app for it. Imagine then if you could pair your Apple BT keyboard with it.

Yeah, that'll make sense, carrying around a regular Apple BT keyboard.

Much more than that, there should be 3rd party foldable BT keyboards that should do the job.

-t

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Yeah, that'll make sense, carrying around a regular Apple BT keyboard.

Thanks Mr

What I was talking about actually it leaving a keyboard at other locations rather than a full computer. For example a keyboard at the cottage, the kitchen.

Or... perhaps someone will make a more portable one? naaaa.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

No, they wont. CDMA phones everyone wants out of as they are bigger and eat more battery. Not to mention it is not a world standard.

Tell that to all the users on Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, US Cellular, and all the smaller rural providers. Cingular may be the largest overall carrier, but they only got that way by buying up their competition. The only other major GSM provider in the US is tiny T-Mobile. All the rest are CDMA, and I suspect the number of CDMA customers would dwarf the number of GSM customers in the US. Furthermore, if I understand things correctly, Verizon with its "dying" CDMA technology is growing faster than any other carrier in the US, so since they're not that far behind Cingular, it won't be that long before they're the largest again. Sure, they suck in many ways, and they do cripple certain features on their phones, but 99.9999% of consumers don't know that, or even what those crippled features are or what they do, or if the phone they bought even has those features. Yeah, CDMA won't work outside the US - but most consumers don't know that GSM will, or even what GSM is, and those that do go GSM often get dual or tri-band phones that won't work outside the US anyway. Consumers just want coverage so they can make phone calls, and CDMA generally covers the US much better than GSM, especially in the Midwest where GSM really blows.

Oh, and before someone decides to knee-jerk and call me a CDMA or Verizon fanboy, I'm on Cingular (although I'll probably end up having to switch to a CDMA-based provider when my contract's up as Cingular decided to drop the roaming agreement that covered my home town, so now I get no signal when I go home to visit, and there's no other GSM provider other than T-Mobile), and I understand the benefits of GSM (basically, being able to take your phone with you when you travel). All I'm doing is giving a little reality check to counteract the excesesive Kool-Aid around here lately.

[ajprice]

Keyboards... this kind of thing, which would probably double as a case or sleeve, or this. Both portable keyboards, but I can imagine a huge 3rd party market for iPhone accessories coming very soon, much of it coming from the existing iPod accessory makers like Belkin, Griffin and 4Gear etc.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Tell that to all the users on Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, US Cellular, and all the smaller rural providers.

So what you're saying again is that Apple without CDMA will not meet its 1% goal?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

So what you're saying again is that Apple without CDMA will not meet its 1% goal?

You don't actually read my posts, do you?

What I'm saying is that "everyone" does not want out of CDMA, and that it is not a "dying" technology.

You know, I do often quote the messages I'm replying to, so you can see exactly what I'm saying, and to what I'm responding.

[indigoimac]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

What I'm saying is that "everyone" does not want out of CDMA, and that it is not a "dying" technology.

Well, it is dying, just not fast enough. I will offer my 2 reasons for why I feel that the decision to go w/ Cingular was a bad 1 and why T-Mobile would have been a better choice.

a) Apple prides itself w/ customer service, Cingular's cust service is terrible, like really really bad, I have had nothing but excellent interactions w/ T-Mobile's cust support. Even if Apple is in charge of support for the iPhone, people will inevitably call Cingular for service, I wish them luck!

b) The T-Mobile Hotspot, these exist at every Starbuck's in the nation(as well as other places), and there are more Starbuck's opening everyday, if they had gone w/ T-Mob the iPhone could likely get more use out of these hotspots than EDGE. Also it is quite likely that the average iPhone buyer would be a frequent patron of Starbuck's making this an even more logical solution.

And in terms of coverage, Cingular and T-Mobile are about on-par, I've had better luck w/ T-Mobile Internationally, but that's really a crap shoot anyway.

I would also argue that T-Mob's network is more technologically advanced and I find it hard to believe that Apple did not feel that T-Mob would likely not be willing to cooperate.

Anyone Agree?!

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by indigoimac 

Well, it is dying, just not fast enough.

Not in the US, it isn't. Verizon's got better retention rates than anyone else. GSM in the US is dying faster than CDMA is, given that Cingular, the one really big GSM provider in the US, is hemorrhaging customers and Verizon is snapping them up.

a) Apple prides itself w/ customer service, Cingular's cust service is terrible, like really really bad, I have had nothing but excellent interactions w/ T-Mobile's cust support. Even if Apple is in charge of support for the iPhone, people will inevitably call Cingular for service, I wish them luck!

This is true. Cingular's customer service sucks.

b) The T-Mobile Hotspot, these exist at every Starbuck's in the nation(as well as other places), and there are more Starbuck's opening everyday, if they had gone w/ T-Mob the iPhone could likely get more use out of these hotspots than EDGE. Also it is quite likely that the average iPhone buyer would be a frequent patron of Starbuck's making this an even more logical solution.

Yeah, they do have a lot of hotspots. What's frustrating about it is that they have hotspots even in cities where they don't have cell coverage.

And in terms of coverage, Cingular and T-Mobile are about on-par

From what I understand, this is not true. They are way cheaper for a reason.

I would also argue that T-Mob's network is more technologically advanced

Not true - Cingular has a limited 3G rollout which theoretically should improve over time, whereas T-mobile (if I understand correctly) has no 3G at all. Also, Cingular uses both the 850 and 1900 bands, whereas T-Mobile only uses the 1900 which, although it allows compatibility with more non-US tri-band phones, doesn't travel as far or penetrate buildings as well as 850, if I understand correctly.

Plus, there's the fact that T-Mobile's coverage is just smaller, especially in rural areas.

and I find it hard to believe that Apple did not feel that T-Mob would likely not be willing to cooperate.

I think it has more to do with the fact that Cingular has a lot more customers and they want to sell to a large audience. If Verizon were the largest provider right now, the iPhone would probably be CDMA-only with GSM coming later, as opposed to the reverse which is probably true today.

[Brass]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Killer feature. I really need that every day.


You are kisdding, right ?


Again, kidding, right ?

WTF, dude ?

-t

I'm not sure what your point is. I was trying to point out some significant differences between the Newton and the iPhone. No I was not kidding.

I think both are great products, but they are very different.

[indigoimac]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

From what I understand, this is not true. They are way cheaper for a reason.

I can tell you that having been a Cingular customer before switching to T-Mob that they really are about the same, I also have a family member that has a VZ phone and must say that I've had more dropped calls w/ them than either T-Mob or Cing. Also having another family member still w/ Cing(sad I know, so many carriers) I can say that at least in Pittsburgh and the immediately surrounding areas T-Mob is better, though I'd say domestically VZ is the best, but since I need Int'l T-Mob is the best and only option.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Not true - Cingular has a limited 3G rollout which theoretically should improve over time, whereas T-mobile (if I understand correctly) has no 3G at all. Also, Cingular uses both the 850 and 1900 bands, whereas T-Mobile only uses the 1900 which, although it allows compatibility with more non-US tri-band phones, doesn't travel as far or penetrate buildings as well as 850, if I understand correctly.

Plus, there's the fact that T-Mobile's coverage is just smaller, especially in rural areas.

VZ and Sprint have everyone else beat in rural areas, I can't deny that, but I do live in a city and don't really care, lol.

As far as the frequency nonsense, I have a quad-band phone, and I bounce from Cing to T-Mobile's network depending on what's best, also the 850 is an old ATT wireless carry-over most has been replaced by 900MHz, I believe.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I think it has more to do with the fact that Cingular has a lot more customers and they want to sell to a large audience. If Verizon were the largest provider right now, the iPhone would probably be CDMA-only with GSM coming later, as opposed to the reverse which is probably true today.

You're probably right, really, no matter who they had gone w/ people would have complained!

[Brass]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Ya they took out the half nobody used or wanted.

Draw pictures? Please. Even in all the apple demo's it was just to give directions and Google maps solved that.

OR are you saying you daily run into the need of having to draw circles and squares on a PDA.

As for notes, well take them in the included notepad and type them in on the phone. I bet it will also sync notes from your mac.

typing notes on a phone is painful, but it's better than nothing I guess. But again, In comparison to the way you'd take notes on a Newton, it is primitive.

As for drawing on a Newton, don't assume that everyone uses tools in exactly the same way. Yes, I did an several occasions have great uses for drawing such things, on the Newton, and having my drawing appear with perfectly straight lines, all meeting at the corners, very simply, meant that I was able to draw perfectly neat sketches in front of my client, with very professional results. Then take that drawing away and continue working with it later.

[Brass]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Same way you do SMS?

sheesh, I wouldn't compare that to being anything like as nice as on a newton. But everyone has different preferences. Still, I would not call it similar.

[macintologist]

I feel sorry for anyone who owns a CDMA phone. Thank you Apple for making a truly GSM world phone.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

I feel sorry for anyone who owns a CDMA phone. Thank you Apple for making a truly GSM world phone.

Me too. The CDMA providers up here (bell, Telus) have the most ghastly phones with 80% having big antenna's and ALL of them getting half the battery life my GSM gets.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Me too. The CDMA providers up here (bell, Telus) have the most ghastly phones with 80% having big antenna's and ALL of them getting half the battery life my GSM gets.

I guess the townies wouldn't care about gsm vs. cdma but us international american folk do. Plus, GSM is such a wide-reaching standard that all the cool phones are released first in GSM, and rarely ever in CDMA. I seems all the cheap nokia models are transferred over.

[Hawkeye_a]

Defiately, the first thing that cme to my mind was not an iPod or a phone..it was Newton. now' if only they could get Ink Well up and running

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by indigoimac 

I can tell you that having been a Cingular customer before switching to T-Mob that they really are about the same, I also have a family member that has a VZ phone and must say that I've had more dropped calls w/ them than either T-Mob or Cing. Also having another family member still w/ Cing(sad I know, so many carriers) I can say that at least in Pittsburgh and the immediately surrounding areas T-Mob is better, though I'd say domestically VZ is the best, but since I need Int'l T-Mob is the best and only option.

Well, I'm sure it will vary from place to place. Where I live, T-Mobile's online coverage viewer shows a dramatically smaller coverage area than Cingular's. And it's well-known that T-Mobile has a lot less money to spend (due to their smaller customer base and their crazy low prices) on improving their network.

As far as the frequency nonsense, I have a quad-band phone, and I bounce from Cing to T-Mobile's network depending on what's best, also the 850 is an old ATT wireless carry-over most has been replaced by 900MHz, I believe.

Uh, no. AT&T used 1900 MHz. 850 MHz was introduced by Cingular in order that the signal can go farther and penetrate buildings better. Cingular uses both 850 and 1900, the 1900 being due to the acquisition of AT&T's network, but if they convert any towers from one frequency to the other, it'll be from 1900 to 850, not the other way around. As for 900 MHz, that is not used anywhere in the US as far as I know. That's in Europe and pretty much the rest of the non-US GSM-using world.

[talisker]

Can't see a CDMA version myself. The greater need is for a 3G version - it's pretty inconceivable that Apple would attempt to sell an expensive phone without 3G in Europe. It is pretty much the standard these days.

Although they're unable as usual to think outside the box and launch the product outside the US first, Apple will be thinking of the global market here. Hence GSM. I believe the USA accounts for around 50% of Apple's sales. I imagine with the iphone the rest of the world may take an even bigger slice. A sophisticated, cutting edge mobile just seems to fit better with the non-US market, given the USA's fairly primitive mobile networks.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Brass 

sheesh, I wouldn't compare that to being anything like as nice as on a newton. But everyone has different preferences. Still, I would not call it similar.

You asked if could be done, not if it was similar.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by talisker 

Although they're unable as usual to think outside the box and launch the product outside the US first

How exactly is that thinking outside of the box?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Defiately, the first thing that cme to my mind was not an iPod or a phone..it was Newton. now' if only they could get Ink Well up and running

You really want it though? I mean you would need a stylus and there is no space to stash it.

My last smart phone had handwriting recognition and it was pretty damn good and I thought I would always use it all the time. I never did though as it was so much faster and easier to use the tiny keypad and not have to worry about writing fairly neatly and taking out the stupid stylus to doodle while I walked.

Think about why Palm lasted and not the newton. The Palm couldn't do 1/8th of what the Newton could do but it was more popular. The reason it was smaller to fit in a pocket and the graffiti handwriting recognition was close to 100% accurate even though you had to learn a new writing style rather than the phone learning you.

At the time it was a smarter idea Palm had and I really don't see handwriting recognition making its way back into any product. The next big thing that everyone is waiting for is voice recognition but in the mean time gesture based touch screen works well enough and is more fun anyway.

[Cipher13]

Just remember the Apple rule of thumb...

If you want to truly be impressed, wait for the first revision.

This phone is *almost* what I want (though really do not need).

My problems with it so far (and my knowledge of it is very basic):

1. 8GB max. Come on, I have an 80 GB iPod. If I had one of these it would need to be a suitable replacement for *both* my phone and iPod.
2. Closed system - while I have no expectation that this will hold, the fact that Apple doesn't want people to be able to mess with it could complicate things unnecessarily. Why have something like this if you can't run 3rd party apps?
3. EDGE - I'm really a little confused about that choice.
4. Is this thing dual-battery? If not, then I'm not interested. As I've said before - I don't want listening to music to compromise my connectivity.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

You really want it though? I mean you would need a stylus and there is no space to stash it.

My last smart phone had handwriting recognition and it was pretty damn good and I thought I would always use it all the time. I never did though as it was so much faster and easier to use the tiny keypad and not have to worry about writing fairly neatly and taking out the stupid stylus to doodle while I walked.

Think about why Palm lasted and not the newton. The Palm couldn't do 1/8th of what the Newton could do but it was more popular. The reason it was smaller to fit in a pocket and the graffiti handwriting recognition was close to 100% accurate even though you had to learn a new writing style rather than the phone learning you.

At the time it was a smarter idea Palm had and I really don't see handwriting recognition making its way back into any product. The next big thing that everyone is waiting for is voice recognition but in the mean time gesture based touch screen works well enough and is more fun anyway.

Good point. i would probably NEVER use it, especially with a virtual keyboard(faster and more accurate). Having examined the iPhone over the past few days...the ONLY thing i dont like about it is the fact that it has a built in battery.

[ajprice]

iPods have built in batteries that were 'meant' to be non replaceable, now you can walk into an electronics shop and buy an iPod battery with a little toolkit to open up your iPod and replace the battery, and most of these replacements give more battery power than the original. OK so it isn't the official Apple way with their replacement programme, but its possible, so I see no reason why replacement iPhone batteries wouldn't be possible.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

.the ONLY thing i dont like about it is the fact that it has a built in battery.

Because of when it runs out or when if it breaks for good?

[Hawkeye_a]

runs out, or when it gets to the point when it cant hold a charge. i dont want to have to hack my way to et a battery replacement..id prefer to be able to get a new battery from an Apple store, and replace it myself.

Ive never had problems with iPods and the batteries, but.... ive upgraded my iPod every 2-3 years. with a phone, im farless prone to want to upgrade(especially if i pay that much for it 500+ - 600+). im just not "into" phones, so the reason id get the iPhone would be to get a great phone once-and-for-all, and be able to use it for at least 3-5 years....but f i'd have to replace it for a new one in 2 years anyway, thats a rather expensive proposition ...for a person who's really not into phones.

it's not a really big issue, and i guess having a thinner phone is cool...but it would have been nice to be able to replace the battery (without voiding warranty).

[volcano]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

1. 8GB max. Come on, I have an 80 GB iPod. If I had one of these it would need to be a suitable replacement for *both* my phone and iPod.

Oh, come on. Really. Think about it: It's flash-based memory, so it's going to be a while before they can increase the storage size of a chip to the capacity of an average laptop. Jesus. Technology doesn't evolve overnight.

As for the carrier war, I'm still upset that Apple chose AT&T (since Cingular will soon be defunct) over others. I have nothing but praise for Verizon's network. Not to mention, their customer service beats AT&T easily. AT&T (Cingular, whatever) = hassle.

Lastly: I don't know why people keep stating that CDMA carriers like Verizon and Sprint always get the "leftover" phones or only a "few" insanely popular ones such as the RAZR and the like. Um, Verizon has the newest RAZR, KRZR, the LG enV, Chocolate, and the clamshell version of the chocolate, the VX8600 (the phone I now have) which is sexy as all hell. In fact, all my friends with RAZRs want one. So get off that lame, ill-founded soapbox already.

[Dark Helmet]

Remember this?

Wired News: iWalk Looks More Like iWish

[Hawkeye_a]

There's this perception that bigger capacity = better. Ive seen a lot of people put aside their 4G ipods for the new 8GB nano just for size & weight reason, and i was contemplating doing that as well.

It's cool having ll your music in one place, but the chances that you'll actually need all yourmusic in one place is sorta remote imo. i dnt see 4GB or 8GB as "bad" thing. and if i need all mymusic in one place i can keep my 4G iPod around. the iPhone would mean i can have my iPod and cell phone in one...which would save pocket space, with a much better product (overall).

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by volcano 

Oh, come on. Really. Think about it: It's flash-based memory, so it's going to be a while before they can increase the storage size of a chip to the capacity of an average laptop. Jesus. Technology doesn't evolve overnight.

The technological limitations aren't my problem, so don't "Oh, come on" me.

I'm well aware of the available technology, and if it's a real issue - stick a hard drive in the thing.

I won't buy one until it can replace both pieces of technology it's supposed to replace.

[air]

does anyone have that old iwalk video anyways?

[willed]

Forget the CDMA vs GSM argument, what they need is 3G. I have been using a 3G phone with a 3.2 megapixel camera for the past six months. With the iPhone, which I could probably get in November, I'd get a downgrade on both of these features. Plus there's no second camera on the iPhone, unlike on my current handset, so video calling is impossible.

It's a nice piece of kit, and handles music and video a hell of a lot better than my K800i ever could, but it is lacking in some of the more basic areas. I'm sure one day we'll see video iChat from the iPhone, but this should really have been on board from the start for a phone that claims to be a glimpse of the future. (Hell, it is a glimpse of the future over here as we won't be able to get it unitl Q4!)

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by willed 

Plus there's no second camera on the iPhone, unlike on my current handset, so video calling is impossible.
... I'm sure one day we'll see video iChat from the iPhone, but this should really have been on board from the start for a phone that claims to be a glimpse of the future.

Video calling is about the last feature I would ever need. It's a useless gimmick.

-t

[Kerrigan]

Spymac.com

Not the full video, but a few short clips.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by volcano 

Oh, come on. Really. Think about it: It's flash-based memory, so it's going to be a while before they can increase the storage size of a chip to the capacity of an average laptop. Jesus. Technology doesn't evolve overnight.

As for the carrier war, I'm still upset that Apple chose AT&T (since Cingular will soon be defunct) over others. I have nothing but praise for Verizon's network. Not to mention, their customer service beats AT&T easily. AT&T (Cingular, whatever) = hassle.

Funny. I've had suncom (which I was super happy with, then AT&T wireless, now cingular (all the same thing really, it just keeps changing names) and apart from horrible phones recently, the customer service has always been excellent. www.gethuman.org helps though.

[Brass]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

You asked if could be done, not if it was similar.

Oops, my mistake... I thought this thread was about comparing the the iPhone and the Newton - differences, similarities, etc.