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tikki · May 15, 2003, 10:20 PM

Safari rules for one sole reason: it has the best bookmark system of any browser EVER.

starfleetX · May 16, 2003, 01:03 AM

To you guys saying that Internet Explorer is so feature-rich, what are you talking about exactly?

The auction manager?
The sidebar?

People actually find those useful?

Sealobo · May 16, 2003, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by starfleetX:
To you guys saying that Internet Explorer is so feature-rich, what are you talking about exactly?

The auction manager?
The sidebar?

People actually find those useful?

I actually found the Page Holder and Snapshot function quite useful. I always Snapshot my online purchases for reference.

P · May 16, 2003, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by sealobo:
I actually found the Page Holder and Snapshot function quite useful. I always Snapshot my online purchases for reference.

Yes, taking a screen shot is such a chore...

The Page Holder can be nice though, IEs printing is better and it sure looks nicer, but it's still way too slow. I keep it around for when I need to access my online banking, but Safari is my main browser. Haven't tried Camino recently - I'll have to do that again some time.

Simon Mundy · May 16, 2003, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by P:
Yes, taking a screen shot is such a chore...

That's not a good comparison - a snapshot captures the fully rendered HTML page, which means you can still view the source, follow links and copy and paste.

A screen shot is somewhat less helpful.

But that's not to say I like IE that much any more... Safari's just easier and faster. I use Mozilla/Camino when I feel like a change.

scb · May 16, 2003, 07:57 AM

I hope MS releases a 6.0 version of Explorer. Here's what I like about IE 5:

Tab navigation through links, fields, buttons and menus. I hate using the mouse.
Highly customizable autofill and autocomplete ( I even have my credit card in there).
Address bar autocomplete includes names of favorites.
Saves pages in self-contained web archive format.
Easy web searching using "?" from the address bar, although you have to hack it to get it to search through Google. I like this slightly better than Safari and it beats Camino hands down. OmniWeb does this too.

The problems with the current version of IE have been well documented above. But if I could just get it to use the PDF Browser Plugin consistently, I would stick with it.

Eug · May 16, 2003, 08:46 AM

Man, MS produces a browser for OS X - the only really functional one for quite some time (before the others matured) - and everyone criticizes them.

Anyways, I don't use MS IE either most of the time (because it ain't too fast), but Safari in its current state is far from consistently usable, even though I love the look of it and many of its features. I'll stick with Camino for the time being. Maybe Safari in 3-6 months, but right now it's just too irritating to have to switch to a different browser ever 15th website you go to. Or if MS IE 6 is good, I'll use that.

Somehow I think Apple will have a new Safari beta out for Panther though. We'll see then.

Oneota · May 16, 2003, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by Coxy:
What, the complete and utter lack of useful features I want and the large number of poorly implemented *standard* features isn't a legitimate beef?

And its buggy CSS implementation? And its propensity to use Lucida Grande every time it gets confused about what font it should be using, instead of the user-specified font? Non-customizable button bar (in terms of ordering the items)?

All legitimate beefs. Safari has a long way to go to catch up to Camino.

pliny · May 16, 2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Man, MS produces a browser for OS X - the only really functional one for quite some time (before the others matured) - and everyone criticizes them.

Maybe it's not that but that they haven't even looked at the thing since what, other browsers matured and surpassed them in speed and functions? They brought it out and then it's languished.

Eug · May 16, 2003, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by pliny:
Maybe it's not that but that they haven't even looked at the thing since what, other browsers matured and surpassed them in speed and functions? They brought it out and then it's languished.

Well, maybe, but Safari isn't one of them. It's nice, but still needs a lot of work to make it more usable. IE is slow, but at least it works better (besides the speed).

But like I said, I use Camino.

theolein · May 16, 2003, 09:51 AM

I quite like Safari, but Camino is my main browser. The tabs work very well and rendering is solid. On top of this the speed is good and the stability is as well. From time to time when I get tired of loads of useless images on websites, I use Links or Lynx. Cannot be beaten for speed and good for documentation etc online.

tooki · May 16, 2003, 02:16 PM

IE 5 for Mac is STILL the most standards-compliant browser out there.

Yup.

But that doesn't mean it'll render the most pages correctly, because tons of pages out there don't follow the standards!

Right now, lots of Safari's rendering "bugs" are in fact places where common and/or erroneous HTML usage strays from the actual standard. The guy who does the Safari progress blog has actually written about the difficulty in striking a balance between strict standards adherence and tolerance for buggy HTML.

Pre-Gecko Netscape is notorious for not being standards-compliant, Gecko is a lot better, but still not quite there.

tooki

P.S. PLEASE POST IN THE CORRECT FORUMS!!!!!! THIS WAS NOT AN OS X QUESTION, SINCE IE (like Safari) IS NOT A PART OF THE OPERATING SYSTEM!

-Q- · May 16, 2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
P.S. PLEASE POST IN THE CORRECT FORUMS!!!!!! THIS WAS NOT AN OS X QUESTION, SINCE IE (like Safari) IS NOT A PART OF THE OPERATING SYSTEM!

Don't make Tooki angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.

As for IE, I've left it behind. The speed of Safari has me spoiled. And I truly doubt we'll see much of an update from MS for an app that doesn't make them any money when not so long ago they were whining about people not buying the overpriced office.

tooki · Jun 2, 2003, 02:29 AM

Nah, I don't turn green. Purple, my friend. Purple!

I for one hope both Safari AND Internet Explorer succeed.

Safari is great for everyday browsing, but for some stuff, it just doesn't work.

The latest Safari builds do add autofill, and it actually does better than IE: Safari's autofill will select your state from a menu; IE would only fill in your state into a blank text field.

But Safari's printing is embryonic, the lack of a throbber is still annoying, JavaScript doesn't always work (such as the "Quote" button on our forum reply page), and it's REALLY annoying that Safari ignores most key commands when you are in a text field. I also don't like that Safari doesn't have integrated FTP support. (The LAST thing I want is to involve the Finder in FTP.)

IE is slower, but works with slightly more websites. It doesn't have a popup blocker, though (grr!).

tooki

typoon · Jun 2, 2003, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by tooki:
Nah, I don't turn green. Purple, my friend. Purple!

I for one hope both Safari AND Internet Explorer succeed.

Safari is great for everyday browsing, but for some stuff, it just doesn't work.

The latest Safari builds do add autofill, and it actually does better than IE: Safari's autofill will select your state from a menu; IE would only fill in your state into a blank text field.

But Safari's printing is embryonic, the lack of a throbber is still annoying, JavaScript doesn't always work (such as the "Quote" button on our forum reply page), and it's REALLY annoying that Safari ignores most key commands when you are in a text field. I also don't like that Safari doesn't have integrated FTP support. (The LAST thing I want is to involve the Finder in FTP.)

IE is slower, but works with slightly more websites. It doesn't have a popup blocker, though (grr!).

tooki

IE also doesn't do Tabs. I've gotten spoiled by the Tabbed browsing.

JLL · Jun 2, 2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by tooki:
IE 5 for Mac is STILL the most standards-compliant browser out there.

No it's not:

http://www.hut.fi/u/hsivonen/os-x-browsers.html

iNeusch · Jun 2, 2003, 10:43 AM

the mac still needs MS support... and IE is part of it... so I do hope the mac division won't stop IE, because if it did it would mean no more mac products !

car1son · 12:29 PM

In this article Microsoft reveals that "As part of the OS, IE will continue to evolve, but there will be no future standalone installations. IE6 SP1 is the final standalone installation." That suggests the Mac unit may not ever do another Mac IE, either, if there's no Windows code to port.

(Hard to combine that with the recent AOL-Microsoft settlement on Netscape which gives AOL access to MS's browser for 7 years. News is so confusing.)

poocat · Jun 2, 2003, 12:44 PM

www.zeldman.com

answering questions left and right.

poocat.

Superchicken · Jun 2, 2003, 08:25 PM

I wish M$ would just port their ACTUAL rendering engine to IE for Mac and then stop, that's all I want, a browser no matter how bloated and slow that will render my designs the way PC users will see them, so that I can see what changes I need to make to work with their crap rendering engine and then go back to browsing in one of my many browsers of choice.

Jim Paradise · Jun 2, 2003, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
You think Safari is ugly, and you think IE looks better?

I refuse to use Safari based on how poor its interface is; Apple could do much better. I'd agree with some of the sentiments expressed that IE is a far better looking browser.

(I still think Camino with some of the icons from the early 0.4 days is the best looking of all the browsers. Clean. Simple. Elegant.)

Guy Incognito 2 · Jun 2, 2003, 09:33 PM

You know when you squeeze a fart under your blankets at night and then start fanning it out from underneath the blankets just so you can take whiff of that delicious rectal aroma?

That is all. I just wanted to share this wonderful thought with you wonderful people.

kmkkid · Jun 2, 2003, 10:49 PM

I don't think you'll see an IE 6 for OS X, simply because an MS employee (sorry I forget who

, read it on neowin I think)stated that IE will no longer be standalone. It will supposedly be built into the OS, like before, possibly integrating fully with explorer. He said IE 6 SP1 was the last standalone build. This is for windows mind you, but why would they develop a mac version if they arnt making a standalone windows version anymore? But, it's MS so no one really knows what they are going to do.

*edit* oops should have read the thread. Someone mentioned it above

Chris