[ApplesAndOranges]

I'm having terrible service and have now been lied to at an Apple retail store in Modesto, California.

My white Macbook that I bought online directly from Apple in January of 2010 does not work with the Mini DVI to Video adaptor, which I recently discovered when I tried to connect it to my TV with composite video input.

I took the Macbook into the Modesto store on August 23 to address the issue and they sent me home with a new Mini DVI to Video adaptor at no charge. They said the adaptor I brought in was possibly defective.

I took the new adaptor home and tested it. Still no video output from the adaptor. I used the same adaptor with my friend's 24" iMac and it output video to my TV just fine.

The next day, August 24, I returned to the store and told them the Macbook was still not working with the Mini DVI to Video adaptor. An Apple genius (Ben) took the computer into the back of the store and used a Mini DVI to DVI adaptor to connect my macbook to a monitor, which worked.

When he came out he showed me a picture of my macbook hooked up to an LCD display via the Mini DVI to DVI adaptor.

I said, "That's great but that's not the issue I came into resolve."

When I pressed them to fix this hardware defect, they finally admitted it would require a logic board replacement, and they printed out a Genius Bar Work Authorization form that listed a Logic Board Hardware Repair Level 2 (item number 661-5242) which I signed and authorized them to do. They told me it would take 5-7 days to complete the repair. I thanked them and left.

On August 28 I received a phone call from the Modesto store saying my computer was ready to picked up. I was able to pick up my macbook on August 30 but no one in the store would summarize the work order or confirm that it had been repaired. There was a printout of a Genius Bar Work Confirmation form inside my macbook that was nondescript. It listed a Parts and Service number (S3279Z/A) but that was all it said.

I took it home to test with the Mini DVI to Video adaptor. The Macbook was still not outputting any video and I began to suspect that no repair had been made.

I returned to the store on the next day, August 31. This is where the story gets interesting. I talked to the first Apple employee I encountered in the store which happened to be the store manager, Will. I explained my situation and he took my work order (with the Logic Board repair listed) and my nondescript receipt to a genius in the back. The genius, Rich, told the manager Will that my Macbook did not support composite video output. The manager returned and told me the bad news. He then said the computer supported component video, but not composite, and went so far to show me a component video cable that was for sale at the store. I told him the MiniDVI to Video adaptor wasn't made for component video, and told him that his genius was wrong and that the computer did support composite video output with the adaptor. I then said I would look up my Macbook's specifications online and prove to him that it did support composite video output.

Will then went into the back of the store as I searched for my Mmacbook's specifications online using the store's iMac. Will returned with a printout of a Mac Mini's specifications, which he tried to pawn off as the specifications for my white Macbook, while pointing out that the specifications did not list composite video output. When I pointed out that the specifications he was showing me was for a Mac Mini (printed in large type at the top of the paper) he once again disappeared into the back. When he returned again, he had new specifications printed out. These specifications were for a 13" Macbook Pro. Again I pointed out that was the wrong model, and he argued that it was the same hardware. I then showed him the real specifications for my Macbook online (MacBook (13-inch) through MacBook (13-inch, Mid 2009): External ports and connectors) that listed composite video output was supported.

He seemed angry and said, "What would you like us to do?" I said I would like it fixed.

He took me over to another employee (Estevan) and told him to do the paperwork for the repair. Will then disappeared. When I told my story to Estevan he was very surprised and sympathetic that I had been having so much trouble. Estevan quickly and politely created a QuickDrop Authorization form and took the computer in, apologizing for the bad experience and telling me it would take 5-7 days to repair.

I am now waiting. I just checked the status of my repair online, which says "Service (Non-Repair) Status" with "Status not Available" and am now getting nervous that I am once again, after being lied to by Will, getting the runaround.

I am appalled by the service at this Apple retail store in Modesto.

[Spheric Harlot]

I take it this was a refurbished unit? It's the only way the story makes any sense.

[ApplesAndOranges]

Yes, it was purchased refurbed from store.apple.com Jan/2010. Macbook 5,2 is the model, with a 2.13GHz C2D.

[reader50]

Just in case, have you tried your TV composite input jack with a different source? Or your MacBook with adapter on a different composite TV?

If there is something wrong with the TV composite input, that would explain a lot. Not the mixup with the spec sheets, but it would cover the store having trouble duplicating the problem.

[polendo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I take it this was a refurbished unit? It's the only way the story makes any sense.

Really curious.. How did you knew that beforehand?
regards

[Spheric Harlot]

All unibody MacBooks (starting with plastic models in late 2009) have mini DisplayPort, which does not support S-Video out.

[chabig]

I had a friend with a similar problem. We discovered that his computer was very finicky about adapters, and finally found one that worked. I think this is a very difficult problem to diagnose because it requires software and hardware to make it all work. Apple doesn't jump right to logic board replacement because that's the most expensive fix and it might not be the problem. I've also had some luck blowing really hard into the mini DVI port to "clean" the pins.

[seanc]

I may have this wrong, but I observe the following:

MacTracker says the MacBook 5,2 is a Mid 2009 model with an nVidia 9400M.

The link you provided to the specifications, which was last modified on

December 16, 2009

state the following:

The Mini-DVI to VIdeo adapter and its S-video and composite connections are not supported on MacBook computers with NVIDIA graphics cards such as the MacBook (13-inch, Mid 2009) and MacBook (13-inch, Early 2009).

[chabig]

Good find. I think the question is answered.

[Spheric Harlot]

Oh shit. You're completely right.

I'd totally forgotten about that.

Yes - the 9400M-based Books do not support S-Video out.

The only option for analogue TV is VGA out and a third-party VGA-to-whatever converter.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ApplesAndOranges 

I then showed him the real specifications for my Macbook online (MacBook (13-inch) through MacBook (13-inch, Mid 2009): External ports and connectors) that listed composite video output was supported.

From the above

Note: The Mini-DVI to VIdeo adapter and its S-video and composite connections are not supported on MacBook computers with NVIDIA graphics cards such as the MacBook (13-inch, Mid 2009) and MacBook (13-inch, Early 2009).

Duh!

I think you owe the Apple Store an apology.

Edit: seanc beat me to it.

-t

[polendo]

That´s why they didn´t do a thing on the first place.. then again that was a complete lack of knowledge of the product (on behalf of the apple store) because they should have acknowledged/solve the situation right there on the spot by identifying correctly the macbook. Not to mention that the technician should have brought to the attention of the store that the macbook did in fact work to specifications and that no repair is required.

[ApplesAndOranges]

Man this was confusing.

My apologies to the genius and manager.

I just called the store and they said the Macbook wasn't there. Still no update on the status online.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by polendo 

That´s why they didn´t do a thing on the first place.. then again that was a complete lack of knowledge of the product (on behalf of the apple store) because they should have acknowledged/solve the situation right there on the spot by identifying correctly the macbook. Not to mention that the technician should have brought to the attention of the store that the macbook did in fact work to specifications and that no repair is required.

not to mention that they should have pulled up the specs for the MacBook in question and not those for a Mac Mini and a MBP.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ApplesAndOranges 

Man this was confusing.

My apologies to the genius and manager.

I just called the store and they said the Macbook wasn't there. Still no update on the status online.

Maybe you'll end up with a rare MB 5,2 the has s-video out.

[olePigeon]

Just to so you can avoid even more confusion, it also doesn't support analog VGA.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Just to so you can avoid even more confusion, it also doesn't support analog VGA.

seriously? has apple declared VGA obsolete?

[BLAZE_MkIV]

seriously? has apple declared VGA obsolete?

And your surprised because?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Just to so you can avoid even more confusion, it also doesn't support analog VGA.

Huh? I'm sure that that's patently false.

Even all of Apple's current machines still support VGA.

[osiris24x]

It's unfortunate that the store techs have such a hard time looking up simple specs, when addressing issues. Sometimes it feels like the customer almost has to be a sleuth/tech themselves, to get anywhere.

Apple has done a great job with the retail store model - but I too feel that they could use better training before slapping a "genius" badge on.

[anthonyterrell]

I was confused at first, because like @Spheric Harlot said it should've had a Mini-Display port. Either way moving on down the line to the issue of the Apple Store and how they handle business. Granted this was just a miscommunication on both parts. I can say, from working in an Apple Store, this is not far from what happens on a Day-in/Day-out basis.

Numerous times there have been instances where Managers get involved and know nothing. Made excuses to buy new equipment without researching said equipment. There are definitely some unprofessional things that happen behind those elegant doors. I am just glad that your issue was at least figured out, whether it was the outcome you had hope for or not.

Apple has done a great job with the retail store model - but I too feel that they could use better training before slapping a "genius" badge on

+1, Another good point. There were a couple genius' that would just eat up the fact that they had the title. Didn't really fix anything, just a lot of hand offs and condescending remarks. But then there are the genius' that are so damn knowledgable, I thought they helped develop the hardware.

* I am by no means trying to put down Apple Stores, Employees or Apple in general. Just agreeing with the situation and confirming that these are not rare at Apples' Retail Stores. *

[turtle777]

Well, the Apple Stores still beat the Dell stores and Microsoft stores hands down.

-t

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Huh? I'm sure that that's patently false.

Even all of Apple's current machines still support VGA.

It supports digital signal over VGA, but not analog. It's the exact same reason why you can't use s-video, it doesn't support an analog signal. It's completely digital.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

It supports digital signal over VGA, but not analog. It's the exact same reason why you can't use s-video, it doesn't support an analog signal. It's completely digital.

Why does it not mention that in the Apple specs ?

Normally, they are quite detailed and accurate. This would be a major oversight, especially since 99% of the people don't know that there is different VGAs.

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Oh dear.

A quick visit to wikipedia seems to indicate that I was stuck in the colloquial usage, where "VGA" is generally used to indicate an analog monitor connection.

Huh.

[anthonyterrell]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Well, the Apple Stores still beat the Dell stores and Microsoft stores hands down.

-t

Oh absolutely! although I've never been to a Microsoft store yet heh

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Oh dear.

A quick visit to wikipedia seems to indicate that I was stuck in the colloquial usage, where "VGA" is generally used to indicate an analog monitor connection.

Huh.

Again, I would think that 99% of the people think that.
It's just not commonly known.

And to be fair, Apple does not seem to make any effort to clarify the difference.

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Indeed.

I'm actually rather appalled.

[ibook_steve]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

It supports digital signal over VGA, but not analog. It's the exact same reason why you can't use s-video, it doesn't support an analog signal. It's completely digital.

This makes no sense. VGA, by definition, is analog signaling (see Wikipedia). I don't know what "digital signal over VGA" means and I worked on testing VGA out on Powerbooks! The capability of using composite and s-video over the same signal lines as VGA (which is what Apple does) is entirely up to the capabilities (and enabled features) of the GPU. Plugging in the appropriate dongle tells the GPU what signal type to output.

Displayport, as I understand it, is a completely different beast from DVI (the basis for HDMI as well) which has special analog pins specifically for VGA and TV out. Displayport does not (completely digital, as you say), so a VGA or TV dongle would have to do some conversion to generate the analog signaling. In theory, that would mean TV out would be possible, but it's also possible that Apple has disabled something in the GPU to prevent this from happening. Since they haven't created a TV out dongle, that would probably confirm that assumption.

But VGA out is entirely possible with Displayport. I use it everyday. You just need the right dongle (from Apple or better yet, Monoprice).

Steve