Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > UK: Every employee to be quizzed on gay rights

UK: Every employee to be quizzed on gay rights (Page 2)
Thread Tools
nath
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 29, 2006, 12:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
Is there an objective standard to what can be offensive, or is it always up to the standards of the offendee? Because I don't know how things are in the UK right now, but it seems like people are way too easily offended here in the US.
Absolutely, essentially it's to the standards of the offendee.

Although, as in the US, things only start getting really sticky in terms of compensation if someone can demonstrate that they've been actively discriminated against due to gender/race/sexuality (e.g. being on the receiving end of 'banter', or being passed over for promotion, etc)
     
Dork.
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 29, 2006, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by nath View Post
Absolutely, essentially it's to the standards of the offendee.

Although, as in the US, things only start getting really sticky in terms of compensation if someone can demonstrate that they've been actively discriminated against due to gender/race/sexuality (e.g. being on the receiving end of 'banter', or being passed over for promotion, etc)
But I think we can all agree that there is quite a wide spectrum of activity between "being on the recieving end of banter" and "being passed over for promotion". Just the banter part can be open to a lot of interpretation. When people start thinking that anything they say that can possibly be interpreted by anyone else as offensive is verboten in the workplace, then the workplace gets rather boring, and people only say generic things to each other. It's hard to function cohesively as a team if the team members are afraid of saying anything non-work-related to each other out of fear it may come back to haunt them someday.

There are people I currently work with who are very religious Christian Fundamentalists, and do indeed talk about their religious beliefs at work occasionally, if asked. They certainly don't force their beliefs on anyone, and their beliefs do not get in the way of their work or anyone they have to work with. But they are very open about their faith, proud of their faith, and knowledgeable enough about other faiths to engage in reasoned discussions about religion that don't denigrate into flame wars. (Unfortunately, none of them post here. )

(I'm about to get hypothetical on you, and it may seem off-topic, but please bear with me, since I think it's pertinent to this discussion: )

One person in particular has a motivational poster in his office that has a picture of the Bible on it, because he personally gets inspiration from his literal interpretation of the Bible. He is a technical leader who directly supervises people. No one has ever said that that motivational poster was contributing to anything discriminitory in the workplace (and he's had several non-Christians work for him in his time at the company), but lets assume someone comes along and says that he takes personal offense to any mention of the Bible in the workplace, and lodges a formal complaint. Should the supervisor have to take it down? If tolerance and diversity is what we aspire to in the workplace, whose rights are more important, the rights of someone to be proud of what he believes in, or the rights of someone else to never be exposed to anything that contradicts what he believes in?
     
nath
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 29, 2006, 01:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
One person in particular has a motivational poster in his office that has a picture of the Bible on it, because he personally gets inspiration from his literal interpretation of the Bible. He is a technical leader who directly supervises people. No one has ever said that that motivational poster was contributing to anything discriminitory in the workplace (and he's had several non-Christians work for him in his time at the company), but lets assume someone comes along and says that he takes personal offense to any mention of the Bible in the workplace, and lodges a formal complaint. Should the supervisor have to take it down? If tolerance and diversity is what we aspire to in the workplace, whose rights are more important, the rights of someone to be proud of what he believes in, or the rights of someone else to never be exposed to anything that contradicts what he believes in?
That's a tricky one. Clearly he's in a shared environment, and most companies wouldn't want every person to have a poster of their religion/political party/significant other (gay or straight) on display in a communal area. Although it's very unlikely that more than a couple of people would want to have such a thing, organisations have to set a level playing field, so what's OK for one person has to be OK for another. If he/she has a cubical or private office then it's a little different again.

Essentially I don't think you can set a hypothesis for this scenario, because the motivation of the person concerned and the potential reaction from colleagues will likely be different in each case. The safest thing is for any company to have clear policies and procedures on any such area likely to be of concern - religious jewellery, dress code, branding guidelines for posters, calenders, desk ornaments, etc. It is mind-numbingly tedious and prescriptive but is the safest way of avoiding difficulties for any company these days - and ensures that the same rules apply to everyone.
     
Doofy  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 29, 2006, 01:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
One person in particular has a motivational poster in his office that has a picture of the Bible on it, because he personally gets inspiration from his literal interpretation of the Bible. He is a technical leader who directly supervises people. No one has ever said that that motivational poster was contributing to anything discriminitory in the workplace (and he's had several non-Christians work for him in his time at the company), but lets assume someone comes along and says that he takes personal offense to any mention of the Bible in the workplace, and lodges a formal complaint. Should the supervisor have to take it down? If tolerance and diversity is what we aspire to in the workplace, whose rights are more important, the rights of someone to be proud of what he believes in, or the rights of someone else to never be exposed to anything that contradicts what he believes in?
Doesn't work like that. Literally, if you're a leftie then your rights are more important than those who're not lefties, no matter what the situation.

In your example, the rights of those who don't want to be offended by Christian symbolism would win.
     
nath
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 29, 2006, 02:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Doesn't work like that. Literally, if you're a leftie then your rights are more important than those who're not lefties, no matter what the situation.

In your example, the rights of those who don't want to be offended by Christian symbolism would win.
Uh, yeah. Literally.

     
kmkkid
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Brantford, ON. Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 29, 2006, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ View Post
Aha. So 'straight-bashing' is OK, then?
Of course

Seriously though, it's not straight bashing unless you set out to purposely beat on a straight man. Beating one up who aggravates me is not straight bashing, at least not in my books.
     
Spliffdaddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: South of the Mason-Dixon line
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 29, 2006, 06:08 PM
 
it's things like this that perpetuate the notion that gays are weirdos.

counterproductivism in action.
     
christ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Gosport
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 29, 2006, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by kmkkid View Post
Of course

Seriously though, it's not straight bashing unless you set out to purposely beat on a straight man. Beating one up who aggravates me is not straight bashing, at least not in my books.
So a guy beating up a gay 'who aggravates him' is not queer bashing, at least not in your books.

Strange standards you have there, dude.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
Kerrigan
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 29, 2006, 08:04 PM
 
This thread, and this talk about basic freedoms, etc, reminds me of a Kierkegaard quote:

How absurd men are! They never use the liberties they have, they demand those they do not have. They have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.
     
kmkkid
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Brantford, ON. Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 30, 2006, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ View Post
So a guy beating up a gay 'who aggravates him' is not queer bashing, at least not in your books.

Strange standards you have there, dude.


If a gay guy calls on a straight guy and gets his ass kicked, no it's not gay bashing.

What part of 'it's only straight/gay bashing if you set out to specifically beat up said sexuality' do you not understand?
     
christ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Gosport
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 30, 2006, 05:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by kmkkid View Post
If a gay guy calls on a straight guy and gets his ass kicked, no it's not gay bashing.

What part of 'it's only straight/gay bashing if you set out to specifically beat up said sexuality' do you not understand?
I understand all of it. It was your other sentence I was using as the basis for my comment, though. I would have thought that you could have figured that out.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
Kerrigan
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 30, 2006, 08:03 PM
 
Have you ever actually been in a fight, kmkkid? Be honest now!
     
kmkkid
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Brantford, ON. Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 30, 2006, 09:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Have you ever actually been in a fight, kmkkid? Be honest now!
Never. I let my straight bodyguards fight my battles.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:11 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,