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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Sunnis and Shias appeal for British to stay

Sunnis and Shias appeal for British to stay
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moodymonster
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Jan 12, 2007, 07:16 AM
 
Iraqi leaders yesterday condemned Britain's decision to withdraw troops saying it would lead to a bloodbath and ethnic cleansing.
Telegraph | News | Sunnis and Shias appeal for British to stay on

I think the Iraqis have a point that with the British gone the Militias will become emboldened and begin sectarian violence on a massive scale.

Maybe it'll motivate them to work more on their own security and recognising that their true enemy is those who seek to divide and conquer, and not the UK which has sought to unite Iraqis and make them stronger; at some cost to itself.

At the same time though, the UK doesn't have enough troops to do the job. So it's a bit of a conundrum.
     
red rocket
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Jan 12, 2007, 09:47 AM
 
"Iraqi Leaders"?
"The Iraqis"?

Originally Posted by Thomas Harding in Az Zubayr, southern Iraq
The town of Az Zubayr is unique in Iraq in that its 60,000 Sunni residents live in harmony with the 460,000 Shias. People from the two Islamic branches live next door to each other, a state of affairs unthinkable in Baghdad.
Man, that sounds like the Disneyland of Iraq. Hardly representative.
     
Kerrigan
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Jan 12, 2007, 11:37 AM
 
It's funny how trivial the difference is between Sunni and Shi'ite.

OMG Teh Profet's nephew totally should've ruled the caliphate 1,300 years ago! You disagree on this point? I will kill you!

What morons.
     
christ
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Jan 12, 2007, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
It's funny how trivial the difference is between Sunni and Shi'ite.

OMG Teh Profet's nephew totally should've ruled the caliphate 1,300 years ago! You disagree on this point? I will kill you!

What morons.
Yet another invaluable, and educated, insight into world affairs.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
Kerrigan
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Jan 12, 2007, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ View Post
Yet another invaluable, and educated, insight into world affairs.
I know you're using sarcasm to disguise a petty wit, but the fact remains: factious squabbles within Islam are retarded. Of course, you are a "liberal" so you think it is a crime to point out obvious flaws in non-whites.
     
christ
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Jan 12, 2007, 06:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
I know you're using sarcasm to disguise a petty wit, but the fact remains: factious squabbles within Islam are retarded. Of course, you are a "liberal" so you think it is a crime to point out obvious flaws in non-whites.
1) You are obviously an expert on Islam, your views are so comprehensive, accurate and well -expressed. (the difference between Sunni and Shi'ite is trivial, Muslims are morons, flaws are 'obvious', Muslims are 'non-whites')

2) You are obviously an expert on Mental Health, your use of related terminology is educated and applicable (squabbles within Islam are 'retarded' - also bears on point 1)

3) Your grasp of language is impeccable, your use of terms such as 'factious' highlights this beautifully

4) Your depth of knowledge of global politics is awesome (It is "liberal" to nitpick with someone describing global affairs in terms that a three-year-old would find embarrassingly over-simplified), and

5) Your racism is showing (WTF has any of the above got to do with 'non-whites'?).

Based on this demonstration of your extensive catalogue of expertise, I fold - I cannot hope to compete.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
christ
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Jan 12, 2007, 06:28 PM
 
PS - I am not a liberal.

... but neither am I a carpet-chewing rabid racist anti-Muslim.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
subego
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Jan 12, 2007, 08:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ View Post
3) Your grasp of language is impeccable, your use of terms such as 'factious' highlights this beautifully
What's wrong with "factious"?
     
Taliesin
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Jan 13, 2007, 06:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
It's funny how trivial the difference is between Sunni and Shi'ite.

OMG Teh Profet's nephew totally should've ruled the caliphate 1,300 years ago! You disagree on this point? I will kill you!

What morons.
On the surface it might be trivial, but the differences are really important and widereaching:

The shiites believe that after prophet Muhammad died, his follower of leading the islamic community should have been a man from his family, ie. his stepson Ali in the first case.

That's the trivial surface, but the motivation for wanting to have the stepson Ali to follow in the position of Muhammad is farreaching. The shiites claimed and claim that the prophethood that God put upon prophet Muhammad would continue to exist in the family of prophet Muhammad, ie. that there would be a direct contact between God and Muhammad's stepson Ali and the following descendants, after Ali died...

Those blessed with direct contact with God would have farreaching powers, not only secular but also religiously.

The sunnites thought and think otherwise, namely that the prophethood vanished with prophet Muhammad's death and that there's only the general guidance that all muslims receive from God, ie. that every individual muslim was and is capable to become leader of the islamic community, and that the leader would have secular power but not the power to change religion as it is laid down in the Quran and the hadiths.

So, while on the surface it might be a trivial difference, in its whole it is a fundamental difference.

The shias' idea that prophethood and direct/exclusive contact with God would continue in the line of prophet Muhammad's family starting with his stepson Ali, received a major blow when the family-line of Ali died off when the last one died without producing children centuries ago.

The shias then overcame the problem by claiming that that last "imam" did not die but was concealed by God at his young age of five, and would come back sometime in the future, similar to the christian messiah.

The shias waited for centuries for his return, and then decided to create a council, the mullah- and ayatollah-system, that would have the same spiritual powers as the hidden imam, at least until the hidden imam would get revealed again.

Taliesin
     
Zarqawi's Eye
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Jan 14, 2007, 02:32 AM
 
and you believe the masses across the middle east understand that point?

Power is in the ignorance of the populace, be it through illiteracy or malformed, misguided higher education (e.g., Western European institutions).
     
Powerbook
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Jan 14, 2007, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atef
Power is in the ignorance of the populace, be it through illiteracy or malformed, misguided higher education (e.g., Western European institutions).

JUST inappropriate, ATEF!
( Last edited by vmarks; Jan 14, 2007 at 03:17 PM. Reason: you need to obey the rules of the forums.)
Aut Caesar aut nihil.
     
Zarqawi's Eye
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Jan 14, 2007, 02:54 PM
 
I haven't attacked anyone. I am stating my opinion on the present and future state of the war on terrorism, and the plight of the Western world's will to fight extremist depravity and the march of Islamifascists.

Hundreds of millions of people, though they lack the fortitude to look the enemy in the eye and engage him, are decent people still.

Yet where righteous anger fortifies the will of those struggling against fascism, there will be victory.
     
Face Ache
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Jan 14, 2007, 08:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zarqawi's Eye View Post
Hundreds of millions of people, though they lack the fortitude to look the enemy in the eye and engage him, are decent people still.
Fair enough.

Ladies remain seated. Fighting age males, stand up.
     
   
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