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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Dilemma: To buy a Mac Pro now or later?

Dilemma: To buy a Mac Pro now or later?
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RCT
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Nov 13, 2007, 11:35 AM
 
Hi everyone, my first time here. I have a dilemma, which I'm sure most of you have experienced before.
My decade-old G4 is coughing and spluttering, and I'm pretty sure it's going to give up the ghost soon. I've finally managed to scrape together the £4000+ I need to buy the Mac of my dreams: an 8 core Mac Pro, with as much extra RAM as I can afford right now (4GB), plus 23" monitor, and all the trimmings. I was literally days away from ordering when I stumbled across the rumour that Apple may soon (this month?) announce some new Mac Pro's. So, my dilemma is, do I wait and see if I can get a newer Mac Pro for my money, and thus get more bang for my buck, or alternatively get the Mac Pro I originally wanted at a lower price, or do I go ahead and get it anyway, regardless of any new announcement? Bear in mind that here in the UK we don't always get Apple's new products until a few months later than their US release, and I don't think my G4 will hold out for a matter of months. On the other hand, I'll kick myself for spending so much only to find out days later that I could have got a better deal.
So, does anyone have any hard facts about the rumour? Is it worth me waiting? What would you do?
All advice gratefully received!
Many thanks,
Rob.
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 13, 2007, 12:47 PM
 
Just to add to my above post...
I have read most of the other posts here about waiting for a new Mac Pro, but there doesn't seem to be any hard facts, just speculation. Does this mean that no-one actually knows anything and it's all just wishful thinking and hoping, or is there a real fact behind the rumour? Seems like some people were talking about the new Mac Pro's "immanence" back in March even, but here we are in Nov, and no sign.... so what's the story?
     
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Nov 13, 2007, 01:43 PM
 
You probably already have, but see here. I don't think there's any newer info than what people have said in there, toward the end, of course.
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 13, 2007, 01:55 PM
 
Thanks, but I've already been through these (and other) postings before posting my own. I was hoping someone would have something a bit more concrete than just guesses and want-lists. I think I'll wait until Dec 1st; if there's been no announcement from Apple by then, I'll just go ahead and buy. Just my bad luck if they go ahead and announce on Dec 2nd!
     
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Nov 13, 2007, 02:19 PM
 
If the refresh isn't out soon, I bet it will be out around February or March.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Nov 13, 2007, 02:27 PM
 
Macworld
     
mduell
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Nov 13, 2007, 06:10 PM
 
Intel released new Xeon chips on Sunday; the short story is double the cores for the same price (new quads at the same prices as the old duals). Several workstation vendors (Lenovo, HP, etc) have already announced their new products and I expect an announcement from Apple this month. I think the people who say Apple will wait until January, much less February or March are crazy; the base system performance and prices reflect ~1.25 year old hardware and everyone else keeps moving ahead.
     
The Ancient One
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Nov 13, 2007, 10:17 PM
 
For good or ill, Mac Pro upgrades are tied to Intel upgrades for the forseeable future. Right now, this is good since Intel just upgraded, but it also means a longer waits between new Mac Pros. Bottom line - I'd wait for the upgrade, then buy right away. I ordered a dual 2.66 with the X1900 XT on day one. Best computer purchase I ever made. Apple is still selling the same machine at the same price fifteen months later. I haven't seen anything like that since the Mac II which was the top machine for 18 months until the Mac IIx came out.
( Last edited by The Ancient One; Nov 13, 2007 at 10:26 PM. )
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Simon
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Nov 14, 2007, 03:43 AM
 
It has to be November. December usually isn't an option and MWSF or Feb/March are just outright crazy.
     
Madrag
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Nov 14, 2007, 05:39 AM
 
I doubt anyone can give you a concrete release date for the updated MP...

Just in case, wait a week (the rumours were pointing to this week, so why not wait until its end, or maybe some days of the next week).
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 14, 2007, 07:41 AM
 
Yeah, I too get the feeling it'll be either this month or January, not December. I'll wait until the end of the month.... but it's harder than giving up smoking! All that lovely shiny aluminium... all that processing power.... calling meeee.....
     
shabbasuraj
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Nov 14, 2007, 09:13 AM
 
No new computers till 2008.

Live with it, and decide...
blabba5555555555555555555555555555555555555
     
francklazare
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Nov 14, 2007, 11:40 AM
 
Same dilemma for me – from an answer to a previous post on the "waiting blues" thread, it seems the recommendation is to wait. Can one explain to non techies like us, how improved the new MP would be; speed, processing for specific application? I'm a photographer/designer: my dilemma relates to using the Adobe suite, Photoshop and Lightroom in particular. Thank you.
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 14, 2007, 11:59 AM
 
Thinking a little deeper, the Mac Pro I'm after is the 8 core top-of-the-range. As this was only introduced in April, does it seem likely that Apple will upgrade it so soon? Maybe these rumoured upgrades apply only to the older Mac Pro's... if this is true, then there probably won't be any change at the top, just the low and middle range Mac Pro's.
     
Simon
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Nov 14, 2007, 12:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by francklazare View Post
Can one explain to non techies like us, how improved the new MP would be; speed, processing for specific application?
Basically you should soon be getting twice the number of cores for roughly the same price. Expect new and faster GPUs too. Also, more base RAM and HDD capacity should happen. BTO options should change accordingly.
     
SVass
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Nov 14, 2007, 05:21 PM
 
I bought the midrange MacBook Pro with an external 24 inch display, keyboard, and mouse with the extra memory. It costs about the same and has a decent graphics processor. sam
     
mduell
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Nov 14, 2007, 08:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Expect new and faster GPUs too.
To put a number on it, the 8800GT (current $200-300 card) is about twice as fast as the X1900XT.
     
SierraDragon
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Nov 14, 2007, 08:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by RCT View Post
Thinking a little deeper, the Mac Pro I'm after is the 8 core top-of-the-range. As this was only introduced in April, does it seem likely that Apple will upgrade it so soon? Maybe these rumoured upgrades apply only to the older Mac Pro's... if this is true, then there probably won't be any change at the top, just the low and middle range Mac Pro's.
A refurb 2.66 probably is an ok value today but an "8 core top-of-the-range" is almost certainly not a relatively good value right now. The reason being that within the next few weeks at Mac Expo SF Jan 15th (or more likely sooner) your base amount of US$4k plus the cost of GPU, RAM and hard drives will buy very substantially more performance than it does today.

Most observers believe Apple's new MPs will use the Intel Harpertown (google it) released this week. An upgrade of the "8 core top-of-the-range" will almost assuredly occur since Apple can now buy stronger chips for the same money. However IMO except for FSB the CPU is the least relevant part of the coming upgrade anyway. GPU, hard drives and memory management are IMO the real weak points of existing MPs.

Back up your data, hope the G4 stays alive... and wait. Like I am.

-Allen Wicks
     
SierraDragon
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Nov 14, 2007, 09:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by francklazare View Post
Same dilemma for me – from an answer to a previous post on the "waiting blues" thread, it seems the recommendation is to wait. Can one explain to non techies like us, how improved the new MP would be; speed, processing for specific application? I'm a photographer/designer: my dilemma relates to using the Adobe suite, Photoshop and Lightroom in particular. Thank you.
New MPs will of course show speed increases, but Adobe's current CS3 Suite of apps benefit relatively the least among graphics apps from the coming upgrade. The reason being that Adobe fails to utilize the GPU for anything but simple blitting unless you do 3-D, and Adobe has a lot of engineering yet to go keeping up with tech changes Apple recently made. For "the Adobe suite, Photoshop and Lightroom in particular" the existing MPs with 10-16 GB RAM probably do a very good job for the next 2 years. The biggest benefits of waiting for CS3 pros will largely be [1] the fact that value will improve and [2] the fact that new MPs will provide substantially longer life cycles.

I too do photog/design and IMO Apple's Aperture is very superior to Lightroom. Aperture is quite a modern app that takes good advantage of CPU/GPU/RAM available, so for Aperture users (or for potential future Aperture users) waiting for new MPs is relatively very worthwhile.

-Allen Wicks
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Nov 14, 2007 at 09:18 PM. )
     
mduell
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Nov 14, 2007, 10:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
However IMO except for FSB the CPU is the least relevant part of the coming upgrade anyway. GPU, hard drives and memory management are IMO the real weak points of existing MPs.
Can you explain the portion I bolded?
     
SierraDragon
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Nov 14, 2007, 11:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Can you explain the portion I bolded?
I am referencing overall memory bandwidth, IMO a limiting factor as we move into the next few years and apps and the OS finally play well together fully 64-bit.

My comments on a thread like this one about a potential new box always refer to the proposed life cycle of that new box. For a MP being considered now, that means approx. 2008-2009-2010-2011+.

-Allen Wicks
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Nov 14, 2007 at 11:33 PM. )
     
Simon
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Nov 15, 2007, 04:48 AM
 
I think it's important to point out that while the CPU upgrade might not be the most important part of the MP update, it brings along far more than just a slight FSB increase.

The new Harpertown means Apple will also switch to the Seaburg chipset. Seaburg is not just a faster FSB, but also support for up to 128 GB RAM and it offers dual 16x PCIe lanes. The current 28x lane limitation on the MPs 5000 series chipset means it can't run two 16x graphics cards.
     
mduell
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Nov 15, 2007, 07:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
I am referencing overall memory bandwidth, IMO a limiting factor as we move into the next few years and apps and the OS finally play well together fully 64-bit.
Memory bandwidth certainly becomes more important as we move into a 64-bit world, but the new 5400 chipset doesn't do much there; just a bump from 667Mhz to 800Mhz (still DDR2 chips). To get a significant memory bandwidth improvement (1600Mhz+) you'll have to wait for the next generation with DDR3 FB-DIMMs.

Originally Posted by Simon View Post
The new Harpertown means Apple will also switch to the Seaburg chipset. Seaburg is not just a faster FSB, but also support for up to 128 GB RAM
I have a feeling Apple will trim that to 64GB, just as they've trimmed the current chipset from 64GB to 32GB (and only 16GB officially) by only supporting 8 modules.
     
Simon
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Nov 16, 2007, 03:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
I have a feeling Apple will trim that to 64GB, just as they've trimmed the current chipset from 64GB to 32GB (and only 16GB officially) by only supporting 8 modules.
Quite possible, but still 64 GB > 32/16 GB and that's a good thing for us.
     
ninahagen
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Nov 16, 2007, 04:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by RCT View Post
I don't think my G4 will hold out for a matter of months.
Just back it up every day, without fail, and if you have to, get a refurb mini to tide you over for $600, and sell it when the new MP comes for $400. It will run rings around your G4... you will be stunned, and it will certainly bridge the gap till the next MP is here. It costs you $200 to be able to use the best machine on the planet for the next 3 years, and it gives you peace of mind and vastly improved performance till then.

Originally Posted by RCT View Post
I've finally managed to scrape together the £4000+ I need to buy the Mac of my dreams: an 8 core Mac Pro, with as much extra RAM as I can afford right now (4GB), plus 23" monitor, and all the trimmings.
Please don't squander it.

Originally Posted by RCT View Post
I'll kick myself for spending so much only to find out days later that I could have got a better deal.
You surely will, and the bum trip will last years... don't do it, please! think mini, mini, mini, mini....

nina

PS You also should consider the 30" monitor... we have it and it makes everything more fun.
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 16, 2007, 06:44 AM
 
Nina, what you say makes sense, and I could wait and save up more, and get myself the best machine on the planet, with the best card and maxed to the full with RAM and storage... but... technology moves on so quickly that ANY computer we get is obselete within months no matter how much we pay. In a very short time, we no longer have the best on the planet, there's always something better for less than we paid. So, having the best machine on the planet isn't really important to me. I'm more creative than geeky, so what's important to me is having a machine powerful enough to do what I want for a few years. The current 8 core will do that, so I'll be perfectly happy with that, even if a better or cheaper version comes out later. I'll hang on until the end of Nov, just in case the announcement comes before then, but I'm ordering a Mac Pro on Dec 1st no matter what. After that, I'll be too busy playing with it to even notice if Apple makes any announcements in Jan, or Feb, or March... If they do, after thinking about, I won't kick myself at all: I'll be perfectly happy with what I've got.

An analogy: I know a girl who's just got married at 36. For years, she put off even going out with guys, because she was waiting for "Mr Right". "Mr Right" had to be just so: incredibly handsome, tall, intelligent, rich, drive the right sort of car, blah, blah. Of course, he didn't exist, or if he did, he wouldn't have been interested in her, not when he could have got any other woman he wanted. So she wasted years of her life, when she could have been having fun, gaining experiences etc. Finally, realising time was running out and she wasn't getting any younger, she settled for "Mr Nearly Right", not quite as tall, handsome, or rich as her dream. And you know what? She's in heaven. Pregnant now too. For sure, there's better looking, richer, taller guys out there, but she has no regrets, because she got what was right for her, at the time she wanted it.
     
ninahagen
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Nov 16, 2007, 08:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by RCT View Post
I could wait and save up more
4000 pounds will do you fine in the new line too, so you wouldn't have to save up more.

An extra 6 weeks max (mid-January) will surely be the longest possible wait. Apple might let other companies have a jump on Penryn by a few weeks (hp & I think lenovo have already announced), but not by months.

You will get a machine that is VASTLY faster... and be six weeks out in the cold. and heck, if you took my mini advice, you would have a breathaking speed increase just from that/ Check out the photoshop speed test thread here:

Of the several machines in our office, one is a pokey old 1 Ghz G4 used by our accountant. It took 15 minutes to complete the test. The G5 Quad 2.5, which is a blazing fast machine... 20 months ago, the best tower on earth, comes in at around a minute. The mac mini $600 refurbs are about the same, even with the 2GB RAM limitation. The current Mac Pros come in around 30 seconds, varying a little with specific configurations. The new monster 8-core 3.2 Pro Mac should shave that to at least 20 seconds. Now if you are a graphics pro that will mean a lot.

Also, the GPUs in the current line are ancient, which will affect you in aperture, gaming, video, bit-torrent, etc. Surely 6 weeks past Dec 1 would be worth it. Until then the mini is WAY, WAY better than what you have, in this benchmark, 15x faster.

Can we not persuade you?
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 16, 2007, 09:01 AM
 
Yeah, your argument is very persuasive.... but the BIG flaw is the speculation. Everybody here is saying 'tomorrow', 'the day after', 'November', 'January'... and a quick read of the thread reveals people have been saying similar things since JULY! Now, if you had inside knowledge, and you knew FOR CERTAIN that I'd have to wait absolutely no longer than 6 weeks, then sure, I'd wait. I'd be an idiot not to. But no-one seems to know anything for certain, no matter how hard they try to convince others (and themselves). What happens if, after 6 weeks, there's a big, fat silence from Apple? Will you say 'only another 6 weeks'? One by one, all the ultra-confident predictors have gone quiet, as the deadline they were so sure about has come and gone....
And there's no way I'm gonna get a stop-gap machine; it's just too much hassle.
If there's any DEFINITE info from Apple before Dec 1st, then I'll consider waiting, depending on how long it is before the upgrades are available in UK stores. Even if they announce the upgrade, but say it won't be in UK stores until mid-2008 (like the iPhone came out here 6 months later than in the US), then I won't bother waiting. Otherwise, I'm sticking to my plan of ordering on Dec 1st. I just have to draw a line somewhere, or it'll go on indefinitely.
     
ninahagen
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Nov 16, 2007, 10:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by RCT View Post
Yeah, your argument is very persuasive.... but the BIG flaw is the speculation. Everybody here is saying 'tomorrow', 'the day after', 'November', 'January'... and a quick read of the thread reveals people have been saying similar things since JULY! Now, if you had inside knowledge, and you knew FOR CERTAIN that I'd have to wait absolutely no longer than 6 weeks, then sure, I'd wait. I'd be an idiot not to. But no-one seems to know anything for certain, no matter how hard they try to convince others (and themselves). What happens if, after 6 weeks, there's a big, fat silence from Apple? Will you say 'only another 6 weeks'? One by one, all the ultra-confident predictors have gone quiet, as the deadline they were so sure about has come and gone....
And there's no way I'm gonna get a stop-gap machine; it's just too much hassle.
If there's any DEFINITE info from Apple before Dec 1st, then I'll consider waiting, depending on how long it is before the upgrades are available in UK stores. Even if they announce the upgrade, but say it won't be in UK stores until mid-2008 (like the iPhone came out here 6 months later than in the US), then I won't bother waiting. Otherwise, I'm sticking to my plan of ordering on Dec 1st. I just have to draw a line somewhere, or it'll go on indefinitely.
Well, one wonders, if you have already made up your mind, why you even asked us. There were only about 2 hrs from your original querry and your decision.

The hard fact you are seeking is the release of Penryn. Apple simply will not let the whole world of computers to get ahead of them that far on something as basic as processor speed. We are talking 45% faster at a minimum. On a 3 hours graphics batching job, that cuts over an hour off your time. Plus the $200 you spend on a refurb Mini — its resale will be more than made up by the value held at least a year longer by the new MP.

Lets say you spend 4000 pounds + 100 pounds for the mini "rental."

If in 2 years the market says the Penryn gen MP is worth 2000 pounds, the current generation will be worth far more than 100 pounds less, try 500+ pounds less, or some such thing. So you screw yourself now (by having far less than you could to work with), and screw yourself later (by having far less to resell).

You ask, what if there is big fat silence. So? You still have a mini that blows away, no BLOWS AWAY your present machine. If you can survive at all with your G4, your work could not possibly be demanding enough to put Mac Pro power into the need category. Please don't conflate your need for a new computer with your desire for an MP. You will really miss out. Take this advice and you will be blazing along until Apple releases, even if that is 6 months.

If you can't possibly be convinced, than why ask?
( Last edited by ninahagen; Nov 16, 2007 at 11:40 AM. )
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 16, 2007, 11:01 AM
 
Well, one wonders, if you have already made up your mind, why you even asked us. There were only about 2 hrs from your original querry and your decision.
2 hours was all I needed to make a decision I hadn't made up my mind before asking, only after having read the responses. There's no need to get huffy just because I didn't make the decision that you want me to!
As for hard facts, you haven't given me any! Only your hunch, whch isn't good enough. When I have a hard fact, I may revise my decision, but I'll need a more convincing argument before I act on your hunch.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time and trouble to share your thoughts. I may not agree with them, but I appreciate it nevertheless.
     
SierraDragon
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Nov 16, 2007, 02:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by RCT View Post
...if you had inside knowledge, and you knew FOR CERTAIN... ...DEFINITE info... ...As for hard facts, you haven't given me any! Only your hunch, whch isn't good enough. When I have a hard fact, I may revise my decision, but I'll need a more convincing argument before I act on your hunch. ...I'm sticking to my plan of ordering on Dec 1st...
From dictionary.com: hunch: a premonition or suspicion; guess.

We are just users here and don't need to convince anyone. Folks with inside information could not legally provide it. By the synergy of discussion we hopefully bootstrap our conglomerate whole to more knowledge and better decisions.

Calling analysis by experienced well educated folks that is based on significant thoughtful evaluation and research a "hunch" is insulting. And note that there are plenty of hard facts (e.g. Intel's product road maps and releases).

Any individual may of course choose to not analyze available perfect & imperfect information. That is easy: set a date (for RCT apparently Dec 1st) to go to Apple and buy the most expensive CTO hardware componentry that Apple offers on that date, no analytical thought necessary. There are worse purchase strategies; but there are also far better purchase strategies if one's desire is to optimize the hardware performance and/or value on a desk over the next 3-6 years (note that we have not even discussed the apps to be run...).

The good news is that each individual makes his/her own purchase decisions and gets to enjoy the consequences thereof.

-Allen Wicks
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Nov 16, 2007 at 02:38 PM. )
     
SierraDragon
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Nov 16, 2007, 03:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by RCT View Post
...technology moves on so quickly that ANY computer we get is obselete within months no matter how much we pay.
Untrue. Without getting into precise definition of "generation," each computer generation does not become instantly obsolete when the next revision comes out in some number of months. E.g. existing MPs will not be obsolete in January, they will simply no longer be the very best available. Obsolete does not occur until apps/drivers either fail to load or no longer perform adequately.

The logic behind waiting a few weeks for new MPs is not about obsolescence, it is about life cycle cost/performance. E.g. depending on pricing and individual app needs, in January a used or refurb first generation MP might well be the optimum purchase for some individuals. We will not know until we see the new MPs and (always down) price/performance evolution.

-Allen Wicks
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Nov 16, 2007 at 03:11 PM. )
     
SierraDragon
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Nov 16, 2007, 03:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Memory bandwidth certainly becomes more important as we move into a 64-bit world, but the new 5400 chipset doesn't do much there; just a bump from 667Mhz to 800Mhz (still DDR2 chips). To get a significant memory bandwidth improvement (1600Mhz+) you'll have to wait for the next generation with DDR3 FB-DIMMs.
Mark-

You are right of course. However the reason that I vaguely said "memory management" and "overall memory bandwidth" is because my hope is that between Apple and Intel, advanced programming will improve overall memory throughput on this coming new batch of MPs. My hope.

-Allen Wicks
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 16, 2007, 04:01 PM
 
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here; it's just I have an agenda, and lots of work to do. I'm a freelance graphic designer/illustrator, and my work has involved a lot of 3D recently. Over the summer, I had to render a very complicated 3D scene, and on my G4 the render took over 7 days!
I seriously need the processing power of a top Mac Pro, and I need it before Xmas. Now, people are making assumptions and calling them reasoned analysis; fair enough, I do agree that if all the sheep are dead and the lions at the zoo haven't been seen for a while, then some reasonable assumptions can be made. On the other hand, just because a boat sinks doesn't mean a sea monster did it. I stand by my assertion that such speculation is merely that, and much of the speculation here is not even a hunch (however insulting some might find that word), it's wild guesswork! As I said before, those predicting an announcement from Apple last week have gone strangely quiet, or simply changed their prophecy.
The facts remain, if I get an 8 core Mac Pro tomorrow, I'll be well happy with it; it'll do all I want and more. It will pay for itself in a couple of months anyway, so I don't care about its resale value. I'll use it until its near death, then I'll buy the best I can afford again. If, on the other hand, Apple make an announcement before the end of Nov, then fine, I may re-evaluate my decision. But I definitely am not hanging on indefinitely for what may be months, waiting for Apple to get their act together. If they do issue an upgrade the day/week/month after I buy, I won't care. Why should I? The current 8 core mac Pro is a serious piece of kit, and it will keep me happy for a long time to come. Just because there may be a better/faster one out there isn't going to make the one I get useless overnight, and I'd be pretty sad if I got upset about it.
     
Faust
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Nov 16, 2007, 04:12 PM
 
Hello Rob,

I do not have any facts, obviously.

I would wait with the purchase of a Mac Pro, however, if I were to be in your position.
The reasoning is simple. Like you have pointed out, you'd bite yourself in the arse if you bought a Mac Pro now only to find out that a new release is a few days/weeks ahead. Even if you were to get the current model - perhaps with 8 cores - I'd still hold out just for a bit to see if you can find a better deal.

Like you, I'm a graphic and webdesigner, so having a good and - particularily - a reliable system is of great importance to me. I was in your situation about two years ago. I had a dated PC and wanted to get a new PowerMac G5. I knew then that the new models would be out sooner rather than later, so I kept tormenting my old PC, eventhough the system was close to exhaling its final breaths. It was a risk and I do understand that you may not want to put yourself into that position.

I can say that the current Mac Pro is a beautiful beast. I have the 4 core machine at the moment, not even the 8 core and I'd say that it is not only solid but bound to serve me for at least a few more years to come. So, even if you did choose to not hold out any longer, you'd not be making a wrong decision (in my humble opinion), eventhough you may be spending more now relative to what you'd spend if you went the risky route of trying to make your G4 work for a few more weeks.
     
SierraDragon
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Nov 16, 2007, 08:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by RCT View Post
people are making assumptions and calling them reasoned analysis... ...and much of the speculation here is not even a hunch...
RCT, since that is your opinion, why waste our time? Just hoping someone with accurate insider info would be unethical enough in a public forum of users to advise you regarding confidential info? Of course anyone can spend more to obtain less but nevertheless get the job done; enjoy.

C-ya. We too have billable hours to create.

-Allen Wicks
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 17, 2007, 08:54 AM
 
Who's wasting time? I came here hoping for more information, and all I found was wild stabs in the dark. There's no dispute that the Mac Pros will be upgraded, and that that upgrade will probably feature Penryn. But when it comes to dates, people are just shooting blind. All I've done is what any reasonably intelligent person will do: carefully consider all the information, and then form my own opinion, based on my own particular needs at this time. But some here seem to be getting upset that I didn't blindly accept their own little pet theory.
As for seeking unethical insider information, I don't recall asking for that, so it's a little unfair to accuse me of it. Firstly, I've no evidence that any Apple employees actually post here, and secondly, if there were any, I wouldn't expect them to risk their jobs by leaking confidential info.
Still, I get what's going on: it's the whole 'new chimp joins troop' scenario. Amusingly,I showed these posts to an ethnobiologist friend, and he said 'Yeah it's pretty common: established community, with elders feeling secure in their position. New chimp arrives, and elders feel a threat to the status quo; elders try and put new chimp in his place, to make sure he understands the pecking order. By not accepting the advice given, you've threatened the elder chimps' authority, and they won't like that. Had you just thanked them and accepted the advice (no matter how absurd), all would have been well, and you'd have been accepted into the troop.' Isn't life funny? You'd think we'd have moved on a bit after 6 million years of evolution, wouldn't you?
So, to answer my own question, the ones "wasting time" are those who are giving out the wild guesses regarding release dates, not those actively seeking sensible real facts. Equally, I too appear to be wasting time; my own. Here.
     
ninahagen
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Nov 17, 2007, 10:18 AM
 
Deleted for peace (by the author).
( Last edited by ninahagen; Nov 18, 2007 at 06:54 AM. )
     
~bash $
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Nov 17, 2007, 11:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Quite possible, but still 64 GB > 32/16 GB and that's a good thing for us.
Due to the memory bandwidth issue, I find the total cap to be a non-issue for me. While it is certainly true that more memory is absolutely necessary for particular uses (handling insanely large data files etc), the performance doesn't scale well at some point of addressing large amts of memory. Multitasking can still benefit however, but probably up to a point also, depending on the use.

So while I agree that capacity_{64 GB} > capacity_{32 GB} (heh), I still am hoping for a good solution to this problem.
     
MallyMal
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Nov 17, 2007, 12:16 PM
 
Why are y'all fussing at RCT and claiming he wasted your time? This whole thing could have been resolved in 4 posts.

RCT: Original post.

MacNN: Well, RCT, Penryn was recently released so there is a good chance the refresh will be soon but to be honest no one really knows besides Apple when the refresh is going to happen. If you have time to wait then wait because the refresh may come in a week or two.

RCT: Thanks, I'm going to wait until December 1st then I'll buy because I can't wait any longer than that.

MacNN: That's understandable, good luck!
( Last edited by MallyMal; Nov 17, 2007 at 12:33 PM. )
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 17, 2007, 12:43 PM
 
Hey, there is someone sane here after all! Thanks, MallyMal.

Ninahagen, considering my last post addressed directly to you politely thanked you for your time and was appreciative of your advice, I find your latest comment rude, uncalled for, and downright offensive. Shame on you. I sincerely hope you're not typical of people on this forum, because you let the whole community down very badly with your attitude. Just because I didn't take your advice? Jeez, what's the world coming to? I wasn't aware of any stickies that said I HAD to take every scrap of advice thrown my way, regardless of whether I felt it applicable to my situation or not. If you can't handle people rejecting your advice, "O Wise One", I suggest you don't give it out.
     
ninahagen
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Nov 17, 2007, 02:25 PM
 
Deleted for peace (by the author).
( Last edited by ninahagen; Nov 18, 2007 at 06:54 AM. )
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 17, 2007, 04:39 PM
 
I'll refrain from stooping to your level of name-calling. I kind of grew out of that several decades ago.
This from a guy who does 3-D rendering at a crawl on a 10 year old G4, yet is sure he knows exactly what he needs.
How else does anyone find out what he needs? Why would I spend £4000 on new kit BEFORE seeing if my current kit could handle the job? Try thinking before typing, I find it helps enormously....

"scraps, wild guesses, uninformed speculation..."
Well, aren't they? What are they then? If someone doesn't actually know, then what they say can only be speculation. It can't be anything else. Sorry for pointing out the obvious... did it hurt?

If you review my posts
Yes, let's review:
I clearly stated I wanted a brand new Mac Pro: you advised me to buy a refurbished Mac Mini.
I clearly stated how much money I had to spend: you further advised me to buy a 30" monitor which would take me £600 over my budget.
Sorry, but this is good advice? And you wonder why I didn't take it? I didn't come here asking what machine to buy. I've already done my research, and I know what I want/need, and what I want to use it for. I didn't come here to argue about specific kit, all I wanted was to know if anyone had a firm date. The best answer I had was from MallyMal, who clearly and succinctly stated all I needed to know, without any half-assed wishful fantasy or throw-a-dart-at-the-calendar wild guesses.
What's wrong with you? Why can't someone seek a simple answer without getting called names when the answers he gets either don't amount to much, or don't bear any relevance to his question?

Thanks for making a newcomer feel really welcome here.
     
musicforme
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Nov 17, 2007, 06:09 PM
 
Would you all please grow up.
     
ninahagen
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Nov 18, 2007, 01:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by musicforme View Post
Would you all please grow up.
I have gone back and edited posts where the argument began with "Deleted for peace (by the author)."

RCT, good luck... hope the new MP is released before your date.

Peace out.
( Last edited by ninahagen; Nov 18, 2007 at 06:56 AM. )
     
Simon
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Nov 18, 2007, 03:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by RCT View Post
Hey, there is someone sane here after all!
Hmm, there have been quite a few good comments in this thread. Yet since you and ninahagen got into some disagreement you think it's OK to basically tell everybody (apart from MallyMal that is) here they're not sane? I find that quite surprising seeing you're the guy energetically trying to point out how reasonable you have acted and how offensive an other user has been towards you. I personally find the above comment offensive to everybody here who has tried to give you good advice. Thanks. That's certainly a great way to make friends around here.
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 18, 2007, 06:19 AM
 
Hello Simon,
Thanks for your comment. I think, if you look at the context, you'll see my jubilation at finally being given a "proper" answer came right after I'd just been called an idiot and a timewaster, merely for making my own decision and not agreeing with the "advice" I'd been given by a couple of people. It wasn't intended to reflect on everyone on the entire forum, only those getting upset that I disagreed with them. I think most "sane" people here will see that, and not feel personally offended. I did report the most offensive posts, and I'm pleased to see they've now been deleted.
I've made my decision based on my own particular personal situation. I don't have the time or money to play around with other kit or hang around for months waiting. It might be unfortunate that I may miss out on the upgrade, but I can't help that, and if so, I'll just have to live with it. But my decision doesn't harm or affect anyone else, and I certainly didn't expect to be attacked for making it!
     
Reggie Fowler
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Nov 18, 2007, 12:00 PM
 
i just found out from a little birdie that they are planning on releasing the new machines Nov 29th.
Sweet!
     
zacharykrannert
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Nov 18, 2007, 12:07 PM
 
RCT, you do have to remember that you came to this forum asking for information. that information was given to you. If any of us had a specific date dont you think it would be on the frontpage of macnn, appleinsider, and macrumors. If you realize this is just a forum of mac enthusiast then you would realize everything we know is speculation from what Apple has done in the past. You come in here and make all these statements. You need to rethink where you have come. I have to admit I havent read word for word this whole thread, I have read most of it and stayed up with most of it though.
The computer you have is getting time to upgrade but we all know that the Mac Pros will be updated some day just as we know it 3 years the sun will still rise. We all know the last update to the mac pros was in August '06. Thats a long time ago. Yes, they did at the 8 cores in April but they didn't update the then already old graphics card or anything else. The advice to that was given was if your computer can't handle the wait for the significantly nicer computer grab a mini. Its a fair suggestion, not a demand. The other suggestion was get a 30" monitor. It was just another suggestion, not a demand. Everything here came from a kind heart giving friendly advice.

zachary
     
RCT  (op)
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Nov 18, 2007, 03:23 PM
 
Hello Zach.
I agree with you. Entirely. Of course I realise it's all speculation, that's precisely what I said. You shouldn't be talking to me though, you should be talking to the people who got upset when I pointed out that they were only speculating. As you've just done the same thing, it will be interesting to see if you get the same flak I did. "Kind hearts giving friendly advice" don't usually descend into name-calling though.

Hello Reggie,
That is indeed fantastic news: I hope your source is reliable, and that it turns out to be accurate! Perhaps I may get my upgrade after all.
     
 
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