Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > MacBook Air is real!

MacBook Air is real! (Page 4)
Thread Tools
analogika
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 06:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
There are many factors to consider when purchasing a notebook. The three most significant. Price, portability, and what you can do with it (speed, software, etc etc).

The macbook caters to those where price is significant. The MBP where what you can do with it is most important, and now the air where portability is the most important.
Not much point in arguing any further, now that everything that's been said has been succinctly rolled into that nutshell.

The End.™
     
MacosNerd
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 08:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by mfbernstein View Post
Nope. But the folks who were asking for a worthy 12" AlBook successor weren't asking for a subnotebook, they were asking for an ultraportable. Clearly Apple created a subnotebook instead..
So what is the difference of an ultraportable and a subnotebook. Sounds like you're splitting hairs.

If apple made the MBA a little thicker by adding an optical drive, and a removable battery people would be complaining about the size and weight. Apple integrated the battery inside the case and left out the optical drive. People are complaining.

So far from what I've read, all of the people clamoring for a 12"PB replacement are elated that apple finally produced one. They also produced one that looks phenomenal and fits their needs.

This has been said many times in this thread. The MBA is not marketed as a desktop replacement or the successor to the MBP but it fills out the line and provides people with an ultra portable computer that they've been wanting for years.

Are the specs lower/slower then its bigger MBP brother, yes. I believe the form factor and battery life dictated what they could and could not use for components. Don't forget those cpus and GPU do throw heat out and that computer needs to evacuate it. From the looks of it, that baby looks pretty well packed full and it doesn't need a 2.4 GHz cooking along at 70c
     
The Placid Casual
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 09:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
So what is the difference of an ultraportable and a subnotebook.
So far from what I've read, all of the people clamoring for a 12"PB replacement are elated that apple finally produced one. They also produced one that looks phenomenal and fits their needs.
I don't see how this is a genuine 12" PB replacement at all.

I see very few 12" PB Owners who are 'elated'. The MBA shares the same footprint as the normal MB, but without all the features that 12" PB users have come to expect. The normal Macbook is a closer replacement to their machines in terms of functionality, and is better specced than the MBA, as well as much cheaper.

The MBA is 1cm thinner than the MB at one end! Yay! err...

Really, there is no comparison.
     
MacosNerd
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 09:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Placid Casual View Post
Really, there is no comparison.
You're right, the MBA is superior
     
The Placid Casual
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 09:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
You're right, the MBA is superior
LOL!

That was joke right? err...
     
MacosNerd
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 09:25 AM
 
To be serious, we can prognosticate, complain, praise till we're blue in the face. The real test as to whether this computer is a valid successor to the 12" PB or a great subnotebook is the marketplace.

We've heard many people praise this computer, and many complain. Ultimately the only measure rod that will be used is $$$

I've seen some posts comparing this computer with apple's g4 cube (from a marketing perspective) and in some ways I think that''s a valid comparison. Apple needs to market this computer to the right sector at the right price for the right set of features. Only time will tell if they've gotten the price and features nailed down for the intended audience.

Personally I need something that has more power and screen real estate then this has to offer. I think its a very sexy design but it does not (nor does any sub-compact) model fit my needs.
     
fisherKing
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 09:29 AM
 
i've been waiting a few years now for a 12" replacement; this isn't it.
it's an impressive machine (for what it is, ie small, light).

but i still wish apple would give us a 12" mbp...
guess that's not gonna happen.

when i replace my 12" powerbook, it will be with...??
not sure, but, much as i'd like the ssd mb air, am not spending 3 grand for something that will be 'old' in 2 years (and cheaper as ssd prices drop).

will, anyway, give up on waiting for that 12" mbp...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
icruise  (op)
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 10:01 AM
 
In the end, I'm just going to have to see this thing in person to determine if the reduction in size and weight are big enough to outweigh any possible disadvantages from a functional perspective. I think a lot of people will be surprised at the huge difference relatively small differences in size and weight can make.

I'd really like to replace my 12" powerbook, and unlike some people I think this is a reasonable successor. (And I'd like to add that when I first bought my 12" Powerbook just after it came out, it was about $1000 more than the base model Air.) I don't need it to be a full-on workhorse of a computer, since it's not my primary computer. I just don't like the lack of a changeable battery.
     
Yawn
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Mar 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
I still bought one (1.8/SSD), with all the dongles and a 23" ACD.
werent you the joker always bitching about how the 15" macbook needed 1920x1200 to be a serious pro notebook? and now you're going for 1280x800? doesn't exactly make you the credibility king here, does it?

also, forget that acd. get a 24" dell. better panel, more inputs, much cheaper. oh wait, that used to be your advice too.

lol @ u man.
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 10:32 AM
 
I like the MacBook Air!

I can't believe so many people here are comparing it to the cube. Are you serious? I'm betting a six-pack right here and now that it will sell great. Just wait and see. When people see it at the stores, lift it up, toss it around...

It definitely isn't the right notebook for me though: 1280x800 isn't enough, no Gigabit, no dedicated GPU, no 4GB RAM, 80 GB max storage, etc. But that's just me. I'm sure a lot of people don't mind these things.

There is one thing I really don't understand though. What's the deal with that huge bezel around the screen? I agree with Apple that a full-sized keyboard is more important than shaving off a quarter inch of depth, but heck, there's almost two inches of bezel around that keyboard! There's a massive bezel around the screen! Get rid of it! Personally, I love the idea of a sub-notebook. But a sub needs to be not just really thin, but also small. The MBA being exactly as wide and as long as a MB just doesn't cut it IMHO.
     
The Placid Casual
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 10:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I like the MacBook Air!I can't believe so many people here are comparing it to the cube. Are you serious? I'm betting a six-pack right here and now that it will sell great. Just wait and see. When people see it at the stores, lift it up, toss it around...
Then put it down and buy the *much* cheaper full fat Macbook with all the extra features...
     
chake
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 10:55 AM
 
man that thing is tiny, no cd/dvd rom kinda stinks. i have a lenovo tablet pc and its really thin and comes with no cd/dvd, its a pain hooking up external when your in a hurry. just my opinion.
Thanks
Chuck
Hake Gallery
     
loveanh
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 11:02 AM
 
To each their own.
     
luke55
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Dec 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 11:05 AM
 
I would like to know if you can burn to the remote disc installed
in a WINDOWS PC ??
Is this possible or only with MAC computers were remote disc is installed ??
     
driven
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 11:34 AM
 
I like it, but I'm probably the wrong one to ask. I actually bought a Cube.
(Still have it too ... rarely use it.) <-- It can't run Leopard either. :-(
- MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.3Ghz / 256SSD (Work laptop)
- iMac 3.2Ghz 1TB
     
malone
Forum Regular
Join Date: Feb 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 12:39 PM
 
So much interesting discussion going on in here, . I'd like to donate my $0.02...

As others have already pointed out, I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding: the MacBook Air isn't intended to replace either the MB or MBP. It belongs in a niche market, namely, the ultraportables. To those saying it won't sell as well as the MB or MBPs: you're absolutely right, but it's not meant to overtake MB or MBPs or even really compete with them.

This is a notebook for those who value mobility above all else, who take the essence of notebooks (portability) to an extreme.

People who really value mobility over everything but the essentials do so at the cost of features and functionality (vast arrays of ports, ExpressCard/PCMCIA, graphics, spacious hard drives, top-of-the-line processors). So yes, the MBA is feature-light, and "regresses" in some ways, but it does so only to push the envelope of mobility. And it's priced fairly competitively with the other ultraportables (say, 2.5-5lbs units). Just don't compare it to thin-and-lights (say, 5-7lbs).

To all the naysayers who say "the MB is only 67% heavier but has x times the performance and features, and costs this-much!", or "the MBP is only 80% heavier but has y times the performance and features, and costs that-much!": you are absolutely correct. But the MBA is not meant to compete with performance-cost ratios. Ultraportables are meant to be, well, ultra-portable.

The real question is, how many of us really value that ultra-mobility? How many of us potential buyers belong in that niche market? I know I used to be (I had an OD-less ThinkPad X41 once upon a time), and I have to say, I do miss the mobility sorely. My MBP might kick its ass performance- and feature-wise, but being able to carry a computer around like I might a book is something I really do miss.

(Hypocritical aside: it looks like Apple pulled the Kensington lock on the MBA. Anyone else notice this? Wtf were they thinking?! Good gawd, I mean, Apple, get your stuff together...)
( Last edited by malone; Jan 16, 2008 at 12:51 PM. )
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 01:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Actually, he told us that the iPhone and phone service for two years together cost slightly more than the MacBook Air. But if we want to play the "Let's factor in related goods and services to the cost of the item" game...
I was under the impression that the 2-year service contract was required, so in that way the costs of it are included in the minimum buy-in for the product. Maybe I'm mistaken. I've never been tempted to buy an iPhone or a MacBook, but I am tempted to buy the Air. And that right there is kind of why I'm arguing this side: in my case the Air is a valid product. I hope they lower the price by 30% in a few months like they did with the iPhone, but at the same time, I expect plenty of early adopters at this price. Just like the iPhone had.

The appeal is kind of aesthetic: I want to run OS X, and I want to run it on the most minimalist device possible. Ironically far from "minimalist," the products for this purpose are some of the most conspicuous-consumptiony imaginable. Right now. I'm really hoping that this niche will endure at Apple and later become more... usual. Anyway, right now I still use my Pismo to satisfy that part of me. Also, coming from the likes of the Pismo, none of the performance compromises of the Air will bother me. Though I don't think that will be true of many actual Air early-adopters.

OK, seriously: Do you really feel that the MacBook is overly cumbersome? As I see it, they're both extremely small and extremely light. One is slightly smaller and lighter, but neither is remotely difficult to carry around. If I'm carrying an orange in a bag and you come along and eat two slices, I'm not going to be like, "Whew, I'm sure glad you ate two slices of that. This little fruit was really whipping me!"
I think it's a conceptual threshold. At a certain size, something you carry with you becomes a nuisance, and that size is right around where you feel like you need 2 hands to hold it. Only time will tell whether the Air made it under the line.
     
butterfly0fdoom
Senior User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 01:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by mfbernstein View Post
The irony is that Apple created a perfectly good solution to this distinction back in 1992 - the duo dock.
Who's to say Apple won't create an AirDock? All three ports are on the same side of the computer and the MagSafe can do double duty as magnetic anchor of sorts. All a dock would amount to is an enclosure for the SuperDrive, DVI/VGA ports, and a USB hub. I'm sure Apple will think of something if people clamor for it.

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
There are many factors to consider when purchasing a notebook. The three most significant. Price, portability, and what you can do with it (speed, software, etc etc).

The macbook caters to those where price is significant. The MBP where what you can do with it is most important, and now the air where portability is the most important.
Precicely. If you look at Lenovo, they have their R series for price, their T series for power, and their X series for portability. Dell's XPS line has the M1530 for price, M1730 for power, and M1330 for portability. Even Sony had the 3 bases covered with their FZ for price, AR for power, and TZ for portability.
MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.16 (Black)
iPod classic 160GB
iPhone 8GB
     
mfbernstein
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Jose
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 02:30 PM
 
---
( Last edited by mfbernstein; Jan 25, 2008 at 02:31 PM. )
     
MacosNerd
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by mfbernstein View Post
The MBA is a different type of beast - it's designed to be an auxiliary computer. In that sense, the Palm Foleo comparison makes sense.
.
I agree with the your first assessment. It's seemingly intended audience is for those who need a travel computer and already have a desktop.

Your comparison to the palm foleo makes no sense. The foleo isn't even a real computer in terms of what it could and could not do. It was just a machine to off load phone stuff. It made no sense and was so derided by the public, palm finally killed it.

I also agree that I hope apple does sell lots of them. I've already stated this, its not for me. the screen size, memory, and price exclude me from this market. For intent purposes, my MBP fits my needs, though I wish it was a little faster.
     
mfbernstein
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Jose
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom View Post
Who's to say Apple won't create an AirDock? All three ports are on the same side of the computer and the MagSafe can do double duty as magnetic anchor of sorts. All a dock would amount to is an enclosure for the SuperDrive, DVI/VGA ports, and a USB hub. I'm sure Apple will think of something if people clamor for it.
There's no connector for it (that I've seen). A real dock (as opposed to the hacks available for Macs like Newertech's BookEndz) needs a dedicated dock connector. The Duos had them. Many notebook PCs have them. the MBA doesn't. Without that, all data transfers are stuck going through 1 USB port (bottleneck) and there's no way to get Firewire or ExpressCard support. For audio, 10/100 ethernet, modem and video it'd be okay, but for disks and the like, you'd still be SOL.
     
Cadaver
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ~/
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 04:48 PM
 
I placed an order after the keynote for the 1.8GHz/64GB SSD model, but I'm now beginning to rethink things. While I still think the MBA is a fantastic machine - and I do believe it to be priced fairly (heck, a 2.5" 32GB SSD at New Egg is $770) - I'm having second thoughts.

First, what I really want is something smaller, lighter than my 15" MacBook Pro. It's few extra pounds do get heavy when lugging it, and other luggage, though an airport. I take my machine to work most days, so I carry it a lot. Light machine would be better.

However, I do often use the optical drive. I receive a lot of discs from other people, and its not uncommon for me to need to burn stuff on the road. Sure, the external drive is nice, but I'm thinking I'd probably end up taking it with me most of the time anyway, thus defeating the purpose.

I don't keep too much big stuff on my laptop - documents & apps wise - that's what my big desktop is for. However, I do need a functional Win XP partition as well, and I'm wondering if I'll be pushing it with 64GB. My 8GB XP partition is just barely big enough (10GB would be better), and I have currently 38GB of stuff on my OS X partition, not including any movies I might load on the drive if I'm traveling. That's 48GB minimum. A 64GB SSD I presume is measured like conventional hard drives (base 10 versus base 2), so formatted it would be, what, ~60GB? This leaves at most 12GB free. And consider at least 3GB will be used by OS X's swap... so basically less than 10GB free for how I use the machine. The 80GB hard drive is certainly an option, but I'm leery of the speed. My 12" PowerBook G4 had a 4200 RPM drive and it was not fun.

RAM-wise, I've got 2GB in my 15" MacBook Pro currently, and I think its OK most of the time, though I'd like to be able to run Parallels along with other Mac applications without hitting the swap. It'll be fast swap on the MB Air's SSD, but still... no substitute for real RAM. And since its what, $90 for 4GB, there's no reason not to have it.

On top of that, I do find myself using both ethernet and a USB port at the same time not infrequently. I could live without FireWire on a laptop.

And lastly, I would consider the ability to toss an extra battery in my luggage a good thing. Not a deal breaker, but should be considered a +1 on the MacBook side and a 0 or -1 on the Air side.

All in all, as sexy as I think the MBA is, I'm beginning to think a MacBook would be a better solution for me. I am not concerned with price.

Damn. I hate trying to be rational. I also am trying not to *overestimate* my portable computing needs, either. I work mostly with text documents, PDFs, light graphics and PowerPoint/Keynote. I do however, periodically plug into my hospital's PACS system via Windows XP and project cases off the laptop onto a projector, so my laptop needs to at least handle medical 12-bit DICOM files and the Philips/Stentor iSite application.

My 2.16GHz Core Duo MacBook Pro can do it all without breaking a sweat, but its just a bit too big to be comfortably portable on a daily basis.

Guess I'm leaning towards a plain old MacBook instead of the Air. I feel a little disappointed.

(sorry for the long post... Any thoughts/advise?)
     
Clive
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Most probably sitting down, London, European Union
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 05:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
So what is the difference of an ultraportable and a subnotebook. Sounds like you're splitting hairs.
Not sure what the previous poster's definition is, but mine is something like:

Sub-notebook: a smaller than usual notebook, ie probably smaller than 12" with a smaller keyboard.

Ultra-portable: something smaller still, probably something you can put in your pocket.

The "Air" is neither of these, it's just a thin fill-sized notebook.

Maybe "ultra-mobile", but then I think it'd need some kind of mobile wireless connection too (ie via the mobile phone networks).

Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
So far from what I've read, all of the people clamoring for a 12"PB replacement are elated that apple finally produced one. They also produced one that looks phenomenal and fits their needs.
The "Air" doesn't fill the space of the 12". For a start it's got a bigger footprint, and that means a lot. In fact, it's footprint is almost identical to a MacBook.

Then look at the things it is missing (optical drive, firewire, multiple USB ports, ethernet, upgradable RAM...). Doesn't make me want to consider upgrading.


Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
This has been said many times in this thread. The MBA is not marketed as a desktop replacement or the successor to the MBP but it fills out the line and provides people with an ultra portable computer that they've been wanting for years.
OK, well in that case it doesn't fit in with what 12" PowerBook owners want then, because we want (virtual) desktop replacements. At least I do.

Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
Are the specs lower/slower then its bigger MBP brother, yes. I believe the form factor and battery life dictated what they could and could not use for components. Don't forget those cpus and GPU do throw heat out and that computer needs to evacuate it. From the looks of it, that baby looks pretty well packed full and it doesn't need a 2.4 GHz cooking along at 70c
You mean that it is crippled by design?

If the machine were a lot smaller (ie 12" or smaller) I could see that it has a market. But right now it is just an expensive, de-spec'd MacBook that's a bit thinner and a bit lighter, and a lot more expensive.

Seems like a difficult sell to me.
     
mfbernstein
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Jose
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 05:42 PM
 
---
( Last edited by mfbernstein; Jan 25, 2008 at 02:33 PM. )
     
mfbernstein
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Jose
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 05:44 PM
 
---
( Last edited by mfbernstein; Jan 25, 2008 at 02:31 PM. )
     
Koralatov
Senior User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 06:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
... I actually bought a Cube.
(Still have it too ... rarely use it.) <-- It can't run Leopard either. :-(
Well, that's not strictly true. Granted, on the stock Rage 128 card, it might struggle, but anything better than that and you're good to go, even with the 450MHz processor. It probably won't be a heavy-lifting powerhouse, but everything I've read leads me to believe it's perfectly useable in that configuration.

On the subject of the MBA, I think it's a nice machine. Personally, it's too rich for me: I couldn't justify spending anywhere near that on one. If it was $600 instead of $1800, I'd buy one in a flash. It would be the perfect machine to take over the duties my Clamshell currently fulfills, with the added bonus that I could watch DivX on it. It's not $600 though, so I won't be buying one (except maybe second-hand in a few years, as I did with the Cube). That said, I think it's going to sell reasonably well to people who want a sexy, slim laptop.

I think people were expecting a 13" MBP, and they're understandably disappointed that it didn't materialise. That's fair enough, and I can understand that, but I don't think they realise that the MBA was not made for them. Unfortunate, but true. You can debate it until you're blue in the face, but it's not going to change the fact the MBP mini didn't appear...
     
Podolsky
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 09:19 PM
 
My ultra portable is a Panasonic Toughbook CF19 tablet version - that is one feature-packed and portable laptop. All my other computers are Macs but that puppy is my favorite travel companion! How I wish Apple would make something like that!
     
Cadaver
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ~/
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 09:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by mfbernstein View Post
Have you used a regular MacBook much? I also found the MBP too large for carrying around. Unfortunately, the regular MacBook is only marginally smaller and lighter - 1.3 inches narrower, 0.6 inches shallower, 0.4 lbs (less than 10%) lighter and actually .1 inch thicker. Also didn't care too much for the keyboard.

Of course, the MacBook Air is the exact same width and depth as the MB, just a lot lighter and good bit thinner.
Yeah, my wife has one (white 2.0GHz Core Duo). Its virtually the same speed as my MacBook Pro (doesn't feel any slower when I use hers) and while its only a bit smaller and lighter overall, it feels smaller when I carry hers around - feels like there is a more than 10% difference. I don't have any issue with the keyboard, so fortunately for me that's a non-issue.

Still unsure.
     
Cadaver
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ~/
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 09:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Koralatov View Post
I think people were expecting a 13" MBP, and they're understandably disappointed that it didn't materialise. That's fair enough, and I can understand that, but I don't think they realise that the MBA was not made for them. Unfortunate, but true. You can debate it until you're blue in the face, but it's not going to change the fact the MBP mini didn't appear...
Yeah, this is kind of what I was expecting, actually. The rumors of a (nearly) port-less laptop with a multitouch trackpad seemed too incredulous. Guess not.
     
driven
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 09:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Koralatov View Post
Well, that's not strictly true. Granted, on the stock Rage 128 card, it might struggle, but anything better than that and you're good to go, even with the 450MHz processor. It probably won't be a heavy-lifting powerhouse, but everything I've read leads me to believe it's perfectly useable in that configuration.

On the subject of the MBA, I think it's a nice machine. Personally, it's too rich for me: I couldn't justify spending anywhere near that on one. If it was $600 instead of $1800, I'd buy one in a flash. It would be the perfect machine to take over the duties my Clamshell currently fulfills, with the added bonus that I could watch DivX on it. It's not $600 though, so I won't be buying one (except maybe second-hand in a few years, as I did with the Cube). That said, I think it's going to sell reasonably well to people who want a sexy, slim laptop.

I think people were expecting a 13" MBP, and they're understandably disappointed that it didn't materialise. That's fair enough, and I can understand that, but I don't think they realise that the MBA was not made for them. Unfortunate, but true. You can debate it until you're blue in the face, but it's not going to change the fact the MBP mini didn't appear...
Well said.

As for the Cube, I should have been clear ... the G4 Cube 500 doesn't meet the minimum published specs for Leopard. I'm sure I could shoe-horn it on there. :-) There are also after market processors to really pump it up. But ... not sure it's worth the effort to upgrade it. I'm sort of just keeping the Cube now because it really is a work of art in engineering.
- MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.3Ghz / 256SSD (Work laptop)
- iMac 3.2Ghz 1TB
     
mduell
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 10:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Yawn View Post
werent you the joker always bitching about how the 15" macbook needed 1920x1200 to be a serious pro notebook? and now you're going for 1280x800? doesn't exactly make you the credibility king here, does it?

also, forget that acd. get a 24" dell. better panel, more inputs, much cheaper. oh wait, that used to be your advice too.
Yep, that's me. At the time (and until very recently) I needed an all purpose laptop that could be my everything box. Reevaluated my needs with a new job and now it looks like the MBAir+beefy desktop (Mac Pro or quad PC) is a better fit.

New employer only buys Apple (except for the server room), so it wasn't really my choice. I'd still recommend the Dell LCDs any day.

Originally Posted by Simon View Post
There is one thing I really don't understand though. What's the deal with that huge bezel around the screen? I agree with Apple that a full-sized keyboard is more important than shaving off a quarter inch of depth, but heck, there's almost two inches of bezel around that keyboard! There's a massive bezel around the screen! Get rid of it! Personally, I love the idea of a sub-notebook. But a sub needs to be not just really thin, but also small. The MBA being exactly as wide and as long as a MB just doesn't cut it IMHO.
The bezel is a bit much, but without it you run into space constraints without going much thicker. It also gives them the margin they need to taper down to 0.16"; even an inch in from the edge the laptop is more like a half inch thick.

Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
However, I do often use the optical drive. I receive a lot of discs from other people, and its not uncommon for me to need to burn stuff on the road. Sure, the external drive is nice, but I'm thinking I'd probably end up taking it with me most of the time anyway, thus defeating the purpose.
Weight in the bag is a lot different than weight in the hand.
     
romeosc
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Memphis, Tn. USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2008, 10:37 PM
 
Everyone is missing the point. I am excited to see what is obviously coming to entire portable line.

Ability to share hard drive on network!
Wirelessly backing up whole office to one drive!

Pinch & Touch on all new MBP & MBs

New Ipod touch half the size of the Air to view videos and surf web wirelessly!


ETC.....
     
Jonathan-Tanya
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Oct 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 03:03 AM
 
I had a really nice laptop last year when I was staying at the Gaylord Palms....and I was in huge room, had a free upgrade.

So...some kind of presidential suite...and guess what, no wireless.

Fantastic hotel, but wired internet access. Of course I didn't have the adapter...and you cannot buy one.

You'll use wireless 90% of the time, and because of that, you'll forget the adapter...and when you need one, don't forget, that adapter is rare.

You'll get burned by it...just like me, you'll be running down to the mall, to borrow some internet time at a kiosk.

Sigh.

I have a mac next to me...I have a nice core 2 duo in the office. I'm typing this on a 400 notebook...why, because it works great and its darn cheap. I'd pay double price to get a nice apple notebook with the same features... and instead they release more ga-hr-bazh
     
phoenix78
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 05:11 AM
 
A normal MacBook would suit me as an ultra portable. Just much better specs and price.

MBA is simply good for a novelty and the wealthy.

But kudos anyway. Its a nice machine. If i got given one i wouldnt frown thats for sure.
     
Cadaver
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ~/
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 10:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by romeosc View Post
Wirelessly backing up whole office to one drive!
That statement makes me nervous. All eggs in one basket sound familiar to you?
     
icruise  (op)
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 10:26 AM
 
I wouldn't use that as my only backup, but realistically a lot of people have no backup system whatsoever, so it's a lot better than that.
     
MacosNerd
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 10:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by mfbernstein View Post
The Foleo was supposed to be a cell-phone extender. The MBA is supposed to be a sort of (Mac) desktop extender. Neither is intended to function as a truly autonomous unit.
Now you're reaching on this. The MBA is a full fledged computer, for the most what you can do on the desktop you can do on the MBA. The folio, no so. Now the MBA is under spec'd so I wouldn't recommend doing everything you do on a desktop on the MBA. Apple has not portrayed this as an extension of your desktop.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 10:35 AM
 
I already have several Mac desktops, and both an iBook for my GF, and a MacBook for myself. I've been waiting a road-warrior-who-flies-in-coach Mac laptop for sooooooooo long to replace one of them.

Unfortunately, the MacBook Air isn't it.

Perhaps I'll buy one next year when it gets Firewire and a faster hard drive... if they drop the price.
     
icruise  (op)
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 10:38 AM
 
What would you use firewire on the MBA for? While it is a necessity on my desktop, I rarely use it on my portable, just as I rarely use the optical drive or ethernet port.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 10:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
What would you use firewire on the MBA for? While it is a necessity on my desktop, I rarely use it on my portable, just as I rarely use the optical drive or ethernet port.
I use optical drives on the road, but only rarely. Fortunately, there is a USB optical drive for it if you really need it.

I use Ethernet all the time on the road. Some hotels don't have WiFi, or they don't have reliable WiFi. More importantly though, many of the destinations (company, school, etc.) don't have public WiFi that visitors can access, or don't have WiFi at all. Fortunately, there is a USB dongle for Ethernet that is available. I suppose I could pack one of those in the suitcase, but it's just annoying.

As for Firewire, I bring my miniDV camcorder with me sometimes on vacation, and depending on where I'm going, may bring a laptop with me as well for it. I do wonder if the MBA's 1.8" drive is reliable enough for iMovie capture anyway. If it isn't, Firewire on the MBA may just be moot.

And finally, I find Firewire target mode extremely useful. Will Apple support target mode over USB 2 in new machines?

In the meantime, I'll just stick with my almost 2 year-old MacBook. It's faster, has longer battery life, has a similarly-sized footprint, costs way less, and is way more functional.

The only significant advantage of the MB Air is its weight. (And not even its footprint is improved.) Yes, low weight is a big advantage, but for me it's not enough of one to overcome its multitude of disadvantages, especially considering its cost.
( Last edited by Eug; Jan 17, 2008 at 10:57 AM. )
     
ajprice
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 11:51 AM
 
Target mode is over wifi on the Air.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 11:56 AM
 
Threads like these are really amusing. Apple didn't remove the MAcbook, you know - if you don't like the compromises, buy the regular MB. Think noone will buy the MBA? There is already a thriving market for subnotebooks, and Apple is entering it. This is a much safer bet than the iPhone, which is less like other smartphones than this one is like other subnotebooks. Like it or not, the model is priced to that market. It makes more or less the same compromises. Now, I would have seen a slightly thicker model with an 11" screen (same resolution) as a better choice, but that wasn't the call they made. In the end, I have to wonder how big a difference it makes. The MBA comfortably fits in a stuffed briefcase. If all you want to do is Word, Excel, email and web browsing, it's more than enough - it does it faster than the ULV 1.2 GHz models that many other subnotebooks use. That is all many people want to do. The main speed weakness - the slow HD - is handled by the 2 gigs of RAM (more than OS X really needs for such tasks) that is also used as the disk cache,

The 12" Powerbook, as loved as it may have been, was a compromise. The regular Macbooks have all that it did except for a GPU for gaming (and let's face it, that was never Apple's focus). The MBA, MB and MBP cover a wider market than the old iBook/Powerbook combo.

A dock connector - preferably one on the bottom, like eg HP does - would have been very nice. All it would need is a full DVI port, Gigabit Ethernet, sound and a bunch of USB ports, and you have a much more capable desktop model. Firewire needs an extra chip, which there isn't space for, and putting an HD there is just complicating things - add an external USB drive if you have to.

If we're talking ancient models, the Duos were a bigger compromise for their time. The screen was terrible, the keyboard was cramped and they were as thick as the regular Powerbooks. They, like childhood, probably appear brighter in memory than they ever were in real life.
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 11:59 AM
 
The USB SuperDrive and the USB Ethernet adapter pretty much take care of the "special" situations. FireWire is IMHO a real issue. If you need FW for work, the MBA just isn't for you. Period. Personally, I find the 2GB RAM ceiling (why no soldered 4GB BTO option?) just as much of a problem as the missing FW port. OTOH with the humble CPU spec of the MBA I guess you could argue Apple made the right call.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 12:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Threads like these are really amusing.
Responses like this are really amusing.

Apple didn't remove the MAcbook, you know - if you don't like the compromises, buy the regular MB.
We did.

Think noone will buy the MBA?
I don't think anyone is saying that.

There is already a thriving market for subnotebooks, and Apple is entering it.
Yes they are. Thanks for the news flash.

In all seriousness, Apple is trying to expand its notebook line and thus its notebook sales. However, what many of us are saying is they in classic fashion have overly crippled its new product for whatever reason. People complain about these things and there's always somebody quick to say Apple knows better and this is the best product ever in its class.

And then later Apple changes its mind and adds what we were clamouring for.

eg. iDVD external SuperDrive support, USB 2, DVI on the 12" PowerBook, monitor spanning on the consumer Macs, half-decent GPU in the iMac, etc.

Originally Posted by Simon View Post
The USB SuperDrive and the USB Ethernet adapter pretty much take care of the "special" situations. FireWire is IMHO a real issue. If you need FW for work, the MBA just isn't for you. Period. Personally, I find the 2GB RAM ceiling (why no soldered 4GB BTO option?) just as much of a problem as the missing FW port. OTOH with the humble CPU spec of the MBA I guess you could argue Apple made the right call.
Yep. The USB SuperDrive and the USB Ethernet is acceptable. (I'd prefer Ethernet to be integrated, but for the form factor the SuperDrive would have been impossible.)

However, for me, the lack of Firewire is a deal-killer. (The price is more than I am willing to pay too.)
( Last edited by Eug; Jan 17, 2008 at 12:10 PM. )
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 12:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
A dock connector - preferably one on the bottom, like eg HP does - would have been very nice. All it would need is a full DVI port, Gigabit Ethernet, sound and a bunch of USB ports, and you have a much more capable desktop model.
Couldn't agree more!

IMHO I think Apple should include such a connector on ALL portable Macs. At the very least the MBP should come with one. The BookEndz solution is way too expensive and design-wise pathetic. But with no dock connector, it's no surprise there isn't more and better stuff to chose from.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 12:12 PM
 
Well, I hate docks. And a dock with Firewire wouldn't help me anyway. The point is to have Firewire support on the road.
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 12:16 PM
 
The point is to have Firewire support on the road.
I think now that you have explained that to all of us for the third time it can be considered established. Can we move on now?

     
icruise  (op)
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 12:18 PM
 
None of the limitations of the MBA matter to me at all, because I would be using it as a secondary ultraportable and not my primary machine. It's basically for mobile word processing and Internet. The only one that does matter to me is the battery issue, and I'm not sure I can get past that. The non-changeable battery of the iPhone and iPod doesn't matter to me because they get insanely good battery life. But I have very little faith that the MBA will even get the rated 5 hours, which means that I'll have to bring the power adapter with me for extended use. Weight and size-wise, it's not that different from carrying an additional battery, I guess, but I don't like being dependent on outlets, especially because all of the PC users around me seem to be unable to run their computers without them being plugged in.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I think now that you have explained that to all of us for the third time it can be considered established. Can we move on now?

Hey, you were discussing the dock. If you don't like to discuss the reasons the dock doesn't solve certain problems, then don't talk about it in the first place.


Originally Posted by icruise View Post
None of the limitations of the MBA matter to me at all, because I would be using it as a secondary ultraportable and not my primary machine. It's basically for mobile word processing and Internet. The only one that does matter to me is the battery issue, and I'm not sure I can get past that. The non-changeable battery of the iPhone and iPod doesn't matter to me because they get insanely good battery life. But I have very little faith that the MBA will even get the rated 5 hours
Of course it won't. Remember, the MacBook is rated for 6 hours, and we all know how accurate that is.
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2008, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
But I have very little faith that the MBA will even get the rated 5 hours, which means that I'll have to bring the power adapter with me for extended use.
The MB is rated for up to 6 and gets 3-4 in real use. So I wouldn't expect to get any more than 3.5h from the MBA. Possibly better than the MBP, certainly less than the MB. At 2lbs lighter it's a clear trade-off.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:16 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,