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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > It's official. Macbook Air

It's official. Macbook Air (Page 3)
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imitchellg5
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Jan 16, 2008, 08:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sage View Post
The lack of a remote seems a bit strange, since I bet a lot of these are going to be used for PPT/Keynote presentations.
That's what I think. I bet they ship with them.
     
polendo
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Jan 16, 2008, 08:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Not that it matters, but...

MacBook Air: Not the thinnest notebook ever

The MacBook Air, unfurled today, might be the thinnest notebook on the market today, but it's not the thinnest of all time.

That distinction belongs to the Pedion, an ill-fated notebook developed by Mitsubishi and Hewlett-Packard back in 1997.The Pedion measured 18.4 millimeters thick, which comes out to 0.7244 inch thick. Although the Air gets to 0.16 inch at the thinnest point, the Air is 0.76 inch thick at the beefiest portion, making it minutely thicker. Mitsubishi released the Pedion in early 1998.


However, the Pedion was supposedly a complete POS.
Actually the word Pedion in spanish could mean [email protected]
     
mduell
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Jan 16, 2008, 09:16 PM
 
You can see 5 different ultraportable tradeoffs in Gizmodo's chart:

The MBA isn't necessarily better or worse, it's different.
     
lowbuzz
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Jan 16, 2008, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Grow up. Apple doesn't have to cater every product it makes to you and your probably small group of friends.
Small group of friends? Ouchies. I thought all of YOU were my friends, my internet buddies, my hyperspace pals... But I guess not, cuz even some guy who actually admits to using a PC is saying I type retarded.

Can't we all just get along?

Macbook Air Sucks. (Just to increase the hits on the site cuz that's what everyone is typing into Google.)
( Last edited by lowbuzz; Jan 16, 2008 at 09:54 PM. Reason: I forgot to put a space between each sentence. Sorry.)
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 16, 2008, 09:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by lowbuzz View Post
Small group of friends? Ouchies. I thought all of YOU were my friends, my internet buddies, my hyperspace pals... But I guess not, cuz even some guy who actually admits to using a PC is saying I type retarded.

Can't we all just get along?

Macbook Air Sucks. (Just to increase the hits on the site cuz that's what everyone is typing into Google.)
All right. Group hug.
     
Cadaver
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Jan 16, 2008, 09:58 PM
 
So... does the MacBook Air belong in the MacBook forum or the MacBook Pro forum??
     
lowbuzz
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Jan 16, 2008, 09:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
All right. Group hug.
Thanks - dropping the gun from my temple.
     
Cadaver
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Jan 16, 2008, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
You can see 5 different ultraportable tradeoffs in Gizmodo's chart:

The MBA isn't necessarily better or worse, it's different.
The Dell XPS 1330 is more of an MacBook competitor than an ultralight/MacBook Air competitor, don't you think?
     
lowbuzz
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Jan 16, 2008, 10:16 PM
 
None of them are competitors, because they don't run OS X. Which feeds back into my frustration about Mr. Turtleneck neglecting MY needs (they're important, Steve - don't you love me anymore?) and instead focusing the company's time and energy on some silly gimmicky gadgetry, which doesn't even pass the "BAD F____N' ASS!" test. I should at least be able to envy the folks who can afford the stupid thing.

As for the forum, file it under "Lame and Pretentious". Also, I've unsubscribed from this topic - cuz my fiancee is even more annoyed with me posting here than you guys. Hope everyone who likes the MacBook Air enjoys it - peace.
( Last edited by lowbuzz; Jan 16, 2008 at 10:38 PM. )
     
jaydon34
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Jan 16, 2008, 10:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
Not really. Have you priced the machines this is supposed to compete with?

Sony VAIO TZ-series
Yes I've seen that machine. We all know that apple overprices its products but sony they take the cake when it comes to overpricing.

What the MBA needs
- integrated 3g wireless from a major carrier
- Dedicated graphics
- swappable batteries

OR leave the specs the same. Let it have a smaller footprint along with a 9-10" lcd and lower the price point to say $599-$699. Then watch the all the people in the market for an eee pc or sub-notebook spend a little more and get the air. While it's a great machine I can't see paying more just because its thin.
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butterfly0fdoom
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:34 AM
 
The m1330 and LifeBook S2210 are MB competitors, not MBA competitors (as the physical size specs indicate). The MBA compares well against its actual competitors.

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Grow up. Apple doesn't have to cater every product it makes to you and your probably small group of friends.
Why don't you take that mentality and apply it to your iPod touch complaints?
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bishopazrael
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:42 AM
 
I'll weigh in. I've been thinking about it since I saw it yesterday watching the live feed.

I have to say I'm conflicted. I think the MBA is a good idea. But I think it wasn't something to trot out like they did at the keynote... all by it's lonesome self. Some of what I'm thinking follows this thought. After last year's keynote and the iphone finally making the leap from the fantasyland of some geeks in the dark corners of the web to reality, one has to ask... what could Steve bring out that would surpass last years performance? Following that... I think too many people think of Apple's Macworld as something that has to surpass itself every year.... like every year it has to get bigger and better and more... woowzers... you know? I think the stock price reflected that kind of mentality. I mean.. apple made money this year, and their stock drops? WTF?

Aside from that, I think that introducing a thin notebook like that ... ugh... it just kind of gives off the impression that yes... apple does indeed cater to the Mercedes driving soccer moms and corp execs that just want to show off. Who REALLY is the MBA geared towards? With the price tag it has... well that discussion is happening on other threads. But with that price it's only going to be a few select people who buy it. Not college students, not homemakers, not the average Joe who works in an average job and wants to use a mac instead of a pc.

Feel me out on this... I think Apple brought out the MBA like this because they KNEW people were expecting something new..(hey we all expect something new from every Macworld keynote...because reality is... there is always something new...every year for the last...IDK how many years) and since they didn't have anything to produce that would rock the sox, they whip out this thin notebook.

I think thats Apple's sad legacy. If they fail to innovate, if they fail to produce, on time and once every year, some hot new gadget or shizzle, if they fail to do that, their stock will reflect that. People will say "Apple? Yeah I remember them... they used to be hot, but it's been a year and they haven't really done anything.... new."
Anyways.... had it been me... I'd have made it clear that this keynote is really just a courtesy, a public update of what's going on with apple. People expect new and great things every year... and this is a year when something new was brought out, but it wasn't what people wanted. Thus a bad year. God. What kind of hell will break loose when all Steve has to say one year is that he updated the Mac lines, updated the ipods.. and hey... we made a ton of money doing it?
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mduell
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Jan 17, 2008, 01:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
The Dell XPS 1330 is more of an MacBook competitor than an ultralight/MacBook Air competitor, don't you think?
Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom View Post
The m1330 and LifeBook S2210 are MB competitors, not MBA competitors (as the physical size specs indicate). The MBA compares well against its actual competitors.
The m1330 is more like a 13" MBP competitor (oh we all wish!), being 20% lighter than the MB with discrete graphics. Still I don't think it's a bad roundup, although I'd include a 12" Asus with discrete graphics if I was doing it.

My point was that all of the competitors in the sub-4lb range take very different mixes of performance, features, and price and the MBA is a reasonable tradeoff.
     
Jonathan-Tanya
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:32 AM
 
Stop comparing this to a Porsche. When people drive a Porsche, some people cannot afford it, but you still look at it, and say, wow, nice car.

If you pull out your MacBook AirBrick, I'm going to laugh at you.
I'm not jealous, I'm just thinking wow Barnum was right, one is born every minute.

Yes, people predicted the Cube was going to be a failure, and ...it was a failure.

Not every prediction is right, not everyone is wrong...but put me down, along with every single co-worker in my company...and we are a Mac company...as predicting this pile is going down in flames.

This isn't a true ultra portable... no one said, the only important quality in a computer is how thin it is on one of the edges.

A true ultra portable, like the Kindle with broadband access and innovative features, or the Eee PC, or the OLPC, would have been a nice niche product.

Some of you are so proud you found a Sony product that is the world's biggest rip off, and Apple came in under those products...big deal.

Apple stayed stagnant at 5.7 percent of the U.S. market and didn't register a blip world wide, and thats pathetic from such a global brand, such a great OS in OS X, and intel machines that could easily dual boot into Windows as well.

They should be moving ahead, but Steve is convinced he wants to model after Sony. What the f? SonY?

Memo to Steve...Dell, HP, Acer...those are the leaders, you are chasing after a company that you are already beating...moron.
     
lowbuzz
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by bishopazrael View Post
What kind of hell will break loose when all Steve has to say one year is that he updated the Mac lines, updated the ipods.. and hey... we made a ton of money doing it?
His over-inflated ego would explode, sorta like the internet bubble that burst back in 2001. He could have invested the company's time figuring out how to dissipate heat instead.

I don't know what the size of those memory drives are - but he could have kept the same form factor, made the OS boot instantly (ooohhh, ahhhh) - announced that it was cool but ridiculously overpriced - but an option for the same people who are buying the Air.

So hopefully the rich morons will buy enough of the things that the price on the memory drives drops - and us po' folk can afford them.

Meanwhile, he just made a complete arse out of himself.
     
bishopazrael
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Jan 17, 2008, 04:49 AM
 
Yeah...my point exactly. This laptop just feels like he was trying to play a game of catch up that he was never in to begin with. Apple's always gone their own route, until now. People don't want an ultra thin. God everyone here on this forum knows that. We ALL know what Apple fans and Mac users want right now.

The old 12" powerbook revamped w/ Intel inside, 4gb of memory, a dual layer dvd drive and for shizznos and giggles... 2 hard drive bays, a nice bright glossy screen, and hell just shrink the height just a smidge and Steve would have had a winner. Top it off with its own intergrated dock and it would have been an instant classic. Want to give it that apple flair? Take one of those imacs that had the chrome arm w/ the LCD on it... put a 24" lcd on it and make the base a dock that ejects the 12" laptop like a cd or something. Had it been my company, that's what I'd be producing.

I hope this isn't a sign of things to come
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His Dudeness
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:00 AM
 
What's the big difference between the Macbook's screen and the Macbook Air's LED screen? I've never seen an LED screen.
     
analogika
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Why doesn't it come with an Apple Remote?
This thing is not a primary machine, meaning that everybody who buys one already has a computer at home. Every desktop Mac comes with a remote, so many people will already have one.

At least, that logic makes sense to me.
     
analogika
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by His Dudeness View Post
What's the big difference between the Macbook's screen and the Macbook Air's LED screen? I've never seen an LED screen.
Brighter, instant on (no warming-up phase), no dimming with age (LEDs are either on, off, or broken), better color gamut, evener lighting, free of heavy metal contaminants.
     
analogika
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by bishopazrael View Post
Yeah...my point exactly. This laptop just feels like he was trying to play a game of catch up that he was never in to begin with. Apple's always gone their own route, until now. People don't want an ultra thin.
Jesus ****.

What the **** is wrong with you people?

This thing is not YOUR laptop. Latest estimates run the subnotebook market at 15% of the entire laptop market. That's *tens* of millions of potential sales for Apple.

Apple has not gone "their own route" - what the hell is that supposed to mean? Apple's laptops have always been in direct competition to other laptops OF THEIR CLASS, and they have always compared favorably in important ways (and since the Intel switch, in price, too).

The exact same is true of the MacBook Air in the ultra-portable market. It's actually cheaper than most of its competitors, and in a market where representation *is* important. Regardless of how desparately you all want to put it down as a market of assholes with too much money - the impression you make is a *big* part of most businesses, and that is directly related to what car you show up in, what clothes you wear, and yes - what gear you pull out of your bag.

Heck, I'm in support, and even I find that it impresses people when I pull out my BlackBook. And to go online via Bluetooth mobile to download some driver for their non-internet-connected computer is not a sign that I'm some rich asshole with too much money; it's the guarantee that they'll call me back the next time they have a problem.

In short: There is a market for this machine, and it's a fairly big market (and in fact, the MacBook Air is likely to GROW that market), and whatever misconceptions you may have about that market are, simply put, YOUR PROBLEM.

I suggest counselling.
     
analogika
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Jan 17, 2008, 06:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jonathan-Tanya View Post
Apple stayed stagnant at 5.7 percent of the U.S. market and didn't register a blip world wide
stagnant?



What is it with all these people who register just to spout bullshit and don't bother doing even the most rudimentary research before making asses of themselves?

The MacBook Air is obviously generating a LOT of interest, eh? Pretty sure sign of a resounding success.
     
jebjeb
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Jan 17, 2008, 06:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Jesus ****.

What the **** is wrong with you people?

This thing is not YOUR laptop. Latest estimates run the subnotebook market at 15% of the entire laptop market. That's *tens* of millions of potential sales for Apple.

Apple has not gone "their own route" - what the hell is that supposed to mean? Apple's laptops have always been in direct competition to other laptops OF THEIR CLASS, and they have always compared favorably in important ways (and since the Intel switch, in price, too).

The exact same is true of the MacBook Air in the ultra-portable market. It's actually cheaper than most of its competitors, and in a market where representation *is* important. Regardless of how desparately you all want to put it down as a market of assholes with too much money - the impression you make is a *big* part of most businesses, and that is directly related to what car you show up in, what clothes you wear, and yes - what gear you pull out of your bag.

Heck, I'm in support, and even I find that it impresses people when I pull out my BlackBook. And to go online via Bluetooth mobile to download some driver for their non-internet-connected computer is not a sign that I'm some rich asshole with too much money; it's the guarantee that they'll call me back the next time they have a problem.

In short: There is a market for this machine, and it's a fairly big market (and in fact, the MacBook Air is likely to GROW that market), and whatever misconceptions you may have about that market are, simply put, YOUR PROBLEM.

I suggest counselling.
Bravo!

The Air is not some magical, physics defying machine. It is not meant to be the solution for all people. It is a solution for me though. No way would I be buying this as my only machine but it looks like it will do a superb job as my portable at work.

Here I am doing what I always promise myself I won't do; feeding the trolls, or even worse, feeding the dim people that can't think beyond their own personal requirements.
     
Eug
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Jan 17, 2008, 09:50 AM
 
The MacBook air is a crippled machine even for a second computer.

Crippled machine is fine, but for $1800 a heluvalot of people are going to think twice. The lack of Firewire and Ethernet shocks me.

And yes, I'm in the target market for these types of laptops. I was looking for a laptop for road-warrior use. I would have bought one had the price been a few hundred less, and it had more connectivity. I already have a few desktop Macs at home, along with two Mac laptops (one for me and one for my GF). I had been itching to replace one of the laptops with a SFF Mac laptop... but not with these specs at this price.
( Last edited by Eug; Jan 17, 2008 at 09:58 AM. )
     
ctt1wbw
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Jan 17, 2008, 10:06 AM
 
You'll still be able to go online because of the wifi. If your house doesn't have wifi yet, you can still buy the ethernet dangle, or don't buy the MBA at all, or shell out the 50 bucks for a dlink brouter with wifi in it. In these days, wifi is becoming fairly common, even at Micky-D's. Pretty soon people won't even realize the laptop doesn't have an ethernet port at all. Most of the computers in my house are wireless already.
     
Eug
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Jan 17, 2008, 10:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
You'll still be able to go online because of the wifi. If your house doesn't have wifi yet, you can still buy the ethernet dangle, or don't buy the MBA at all, or shell out the 50 bucks for a dlink brouter with wifi in it. In these days, wifi is becoming fairly common, even at Micky-D's. Pretty soon people won't even realize the laptop doesn't have an ethernet port at all. Most of the computers in my house are wireless already.
Of course my house has wireless.

However, this is a road-warrior machine. Most of the major hotels now have WiFi, but many smaller ones don't, and neither do many of the offices/classrooms/etc. you'll be visiting. Also, many sites won't allow you on the WiFi network even if they have it, for security reasons. Yeah, you can buy the dongle, but it's still annoying, since Ethernet is ubiquitous and WiFi isn't (and sometimes WiFi is unreliable).

Furthermore, you can't buy a Firewire dongle. This is a BIG pain if you have any Firewire peripherals, especially if one happens to be a camcorder. They could have even given us 4-pin non-powered Firewire, but they didn't.

One wonders if the 1.8" drive is even fast enough to deal with DV transfers reliably though. Maybe it's too slow so Firewire would be moot, so they left it out.

I suspect that in 2009 we may see a new MacBook Air with a faster hard drive and Firewire.
     
ctt1wbw
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Jan 17, 2008, 10:32 AM
 
There isn't such a thing anywhere to convert firewire?
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 10:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
And yes, I'm in the target market for these types of laptops. I was looking for a laptop for road-warrior use. I would have bought one had the price been a few hundred less, and it had more connectivity. I already have a few desktop Macs at home, along with two Mac laptops (one for me and one for my GF). I had been itching to replace one of the laptops with a SFF Mac laptop... but not with these specs at this price.
Few hundred less and more connectivity = heavier = MacBook.

What's wrong with the current MacBook for a full-connectivity laptop thats ~$1000. Pretty darn good value.

For ultralights, the $1799 MBA is very reasonably priced. People expect compromises with an ultralight. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an ultralight. Apple's designers are good, but they can't break the laws of physics.
     
Eug
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Jan 17, 2008, 10:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
There isn't such a thing anywhere to convert firewire?
Nope. And even if there were, I wouldn't want to lug something like that around, as it would defeat the purpose of an ultralight.


Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
Few hundred less and more connectivity = heavier = MacBook.

What's wrong with the current MacBook for a full-connectivity laptop thats ~$1000. Pretty darn good value.
That's why I own one.

For ultralights, the $1799 MBA is very reasonably priced. People expect compromises with an ultralight. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an ultralight. Apple's designers are good, but they can't break the laws of physics.
I'd rather have 0.1 lb heavier with Firewire than no Firewire at all.

Remember, even the iPod mini had Firewire.
     
ctt1wbw
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Jan 17, 2008, 10:54 AM
 
Yeah, because Back In Teh Day, firewire was faster than usb 1.0 right? Now I think usb 2 and 2.1 are faster than firewire.
     
Eug
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Jan 17, 2008, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
Yeah, because Back In Teh Day, firewire was faster than usb 1.0 right? Now I think usb 2 and 2.1 are faster than firewire.
USB 2 is faster than Firewire on paper. However, Firewire is faster than USB 2 is the real-world. Anyways, the iPod mini supported USB 2 as well.

But that's not the point. The point is Firewire connectivity cannot easily be replaced with USB 2 for some peripherals. The best example of that is DV camcorders.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 11:03 AM
 
I just spoke with an apple employee and unfortunately the external super drive only works with the macbook air it would have been a nice external drive for my moms tibook since it can do any type of standard disk type
     
ctt1wbw
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Jan 17, 2008, 11:05 AM
 
You think Apple could be starting an industry trend towards usb 2 and away from Firewire? Sort of like the movie studio the other day dropping support for HD-DVD in favor of Blueray?
     
Eug
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Jan 17, 2008, 11:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
I just spoke with an apple employee and unfortunately the external super drive only works with the macbook air it would have been a nice external drive for my moms tibook since it can do any type of standard disk type
Really?!?!?!

If true, that would be incredibly lame.


Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
You think Apple could be starting an industry trend towards usb 2 and away from Firewire?
The trend started a while ago. The problem was Apple wanted too much money for licencing of Firewire, so everyone just said they'll use USB 2. However, where Firewire has stuck is in DV tape-based camcorders, which are still extremely popular and which will remain extremely popular for years to come. Right now there is no way to get DV onto the MacBook Air without the use of another computer.
     
ctt1wbw
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Jan 17, 2008, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
I just spoke with an apple employee and unfortunately the external super drive only works with the macbook air it would have been a nice external drive for my moms tibook since it can do any type of standard disk type

Your sig is cool, man. FERRIS!!!!
     
brassplayersrock²
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Jan 17, 2008, 11:50 AM
 
the convo

You are chatting with Tim, an Apple Expert
Hi, my name is Tim. Welcome to Apple!
How are you?

Hi Tim. Can the new external superdrive work with any computer that has usb?

No.
Only supported with the Air.

do you know why that is?

No clue. Whether it's related to software or hardware is tough to say.

Thank you Tim
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Crippled machine is fine, but for $1800 a heluvalot of people are going to think twice. The lack of Firewire and Ethernet shocks me.
Crippled? I'd prefer to think of it as being enabled. Perhaps in Canada you don't have many cellular modem options, but here in the States most cellular companies offer some sort of high-speed data access. Cellular is far more readily available than Ethernet jacks, and if Ethernet is your only option you could always pack an Airport Express.

Besides, I already pay for cellular modem access. Many hotels charge extra for Ethernet access, so why should I bother paying for a redundant service that may be less secure? And as I mentioned elsewhere, $1800 is not that expensive. I paid $2200 or so for a PowerBook Duo way back in the day. Add in inflation and the fact that average wages are higher today and you'll see that $1800 is a pretty decent starting price. People spend more on their entertainment equipment, so why shouldn't they be willing to spend up to two grand on an income-generating business machine?

The MacBook Air is for folks who basically live out of their suitcases. It isn't supposed to be an OLPC (one laptop per child) nor is it supposed to be an AIO (all in one). It's an exercise in extremely portable design, whose innovations should eventually trickle down to the rest of the MacBooks.
     
Eug
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
Crippled? I'd prefer to think of it as being enabled. Perhaps in Canada you don't have many cellular modem options, but here in the States most cellular companies offer some sort of high-speed data access. Cellular is far more readily available than Ethernet jacks, and if Ethernet is your only option you could always pack an Airport Express.
I don't use cellular data, because in Canada, the rates are crazy high.

Anyways, why would use an Airport Express? Just get the USB dongle to save space and save money.

Besides, I already pay for cellular modem access. Many hotels charge extra for Ethernet access, so why should I bother paying for a redundant service that may be less secure? And as I mentioned elsewhere, $1800 is not that expensive. I paid $2200 or so for a PowerBook Duo way back in the day.
And my friend paid many, many thousands for an Apple //c in the day. So what's you're point? This is 2008, not the good 'ol days.

The MacBook Air is for folks who basically live out of their suitcases. It isn't supposed to be an OLPC (one laptop per child) nor is it supposed to be an AIO (all in one). It's an exercise in extremely portable design, whose innovations should eventually trickle down to the rest of the MacBooks.
I would be shocked if they dropped Firewire across the line any time soon.

P.S. Out of everyone I know that lives out of their suitcases, they have all have a laptop that can function as a desktop replacement. (And that includes the MacBook.) Everyone I know who has an ultralight also has easy access to another computer at home.

I think you are misjudging the target market.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Right now there is no way to get DV onto the MacBook Air without the use of another computer.
You mean to say there are no FireWire to USB solutions?
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
You mean to say there are no FireWire to USB solutions?
No, there are no viable Firewire to USB 2 solutions, and that's the rub.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:39 PM
 
there are adaptors to make one head a firewire and one head a usb. it would still be the same speed as the output jack regardless
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
there are adaptors to make one head a firewire and one head a usb. it would still be the same speed as the output jack regardless
There are adapters, but it's not as if you can do anything with them on the Mac.

I think on the PC you can download the video to the hard drive with custom software, and then re-import that into your editing program later. However, this is obviously very kludgy, and I haven't heard of the same thing being available on the Mac.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
And my friend paid many, many thousands for an Apple //c in the day. So what's you're point? This is 2008, not the good 'ol days.
That's not a like comparison. Try lugging an Apple //c with a monitor around for a day.

What I'm saying is that Apple had a market for $2200 ultraportables back in the early 90's. I'm sure that it has an even larger market for $1800 ultraportables over a decade later. While the Duos may have had more connectors when docked than the MBA, most of those connectors are now unnecessary and replaced by Bluetooth and Wi-Fi.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
P.S. Out of everyone I know that lives out of their suitcases, they have all have a laptop that can function as a desktop replacement. (And that includes the MacBook.) Everyone I know who has an ultralight also has easy access to another computer at home.

I think you are misjudging the target market.
No, I think you're misjudging the needs of your acquaintances based on the hardware they currently own. Now that they have the option of purchasing a MacBook Air, let's see how many of them continue to carry a luggable AND maintain a desktop at the home/office.

I think you're also underestimating the possibility of rapid future price reductions. Let's be honest, price is the major issue here, not features. Nobody would mind the "crippled" nature of the MBA if the unit cost $500, which is an unrealistic price to say the least. Who's to say that Jobs won't knock $100 off the price after 3 months? I'd be surprised if Apple didn't sell at least one non-refurb version of the MBA for around $1500 within two years.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 01:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
No, I think you're misjudging the needs of your acquaintances based on the hardware they currently own. Now that they have the option of purchasing a MacBook Air, let's see how many of them continue to carry a luggable AND maintain a desktop at the home/office.
Nope that's the point. Many of those who live out of suitcases have only one computer, which is their laptop.

Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
What I'm saying is that Apple had a market for $2200 ultraportables back in the early 90's. I'm sure that it has an even larger market for $1800 ultraportables over a decade later. While the Duos may have had more connectors when docked than the MBA, most of those connectors are now unnecessary and replaced by Bluetooth and Wi-Fi.
And what I'm saying is the price in the 90s has no relevance to the price 10 years later.

I paid $4000 CAD many, many years ago for a Mac laptop. I would not dream of spending anything close to that today.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 01:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
And what I'm saying is the price in the 90s has no relevance to the price 10 years later.
If that were true, people wouldn't keep arguing that gas has become "too expensive" based on its price a decade or more ago. As long as the MBA is competitive versus similar ultraportables of today, then it should sell decently at its current price. A MacBook simply doesn't look quite as professional as an MBA in my opinion, and that will be a deciding issue to many status conscious buyers. My God, if there are idiots who will buy $5,000 watches which are less functional and accurate than cheap Casio digital ones, then there's a market for the supposedly overpriced MBA.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 01:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
If that were true, people wouldn't keep arguing that gas has become "too expensive" based on its price a decade or more ago. As long as the MBA is competitive versus similar ultraportables of today, then it should sell decently at its current price. A MacBook simply doesn't look quite as professional as an MBA in my opinion, and that will be a deciding issue to many status conscious buyers. My God, if there are idiots who will buy $5,000 watches which are less functional and accurate than cheap Casio digital ones, then there's a market for the supposedly overpriced MBA.
Of course there is a market for it. The key though is to maximize that market.

Apple often introduces a new product missing key features, and then decides later to add some of the missing features, presumably because it feels it can expand that market with the new features. I wouldn't be surprised if they do that with the MacBook Air. There are a lot of complaints about its limitations, even in the context of ultra-portables.

Remember the Mac mini? Everyone and their dog said it was stupid to ship it with just one 1 memory slot. Others here defended it saying that it was appropriate for the target market and Apple knew what it was doing. Then Apple released the Mac mini with 2 memory slots. Go figure.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:00 PM
 
There seem to be 3 camps here:

1) Stop whining - the MA is perfect for me because I'm wealthy enough to purchase several computers. And out of my many needs for computers, MA meets one of them. I refuse to accept that the machine has any shortcomings and support it fully. In fact, I've already sent my order in for several of them - as one of my computing needs is to have a computer that works as its own baking sheet, and my kids will have fun baking cookies on this thing. It's my money - I'll do what I want with it. And if you'd get off your lazy butt and make as much money as my Mommy and Daddy gave me, I'd view you as much less pathetic, you whiney little troll!!!! And why aren't you wearing more flair? Ooh ooh ooh! Steve, Steve! You should have named it Mac Book FLAIR! It's like totally the perfect travel accessory, totally!

2) I really hate those people that can just throw their money around on multiple computers, one to meet every possible need. I badly needed to replace my primary laptop. Apple is getting lax in updating their computers lately, instead focusing on gadgetry - and this MA thing is just another slap in the face. All hail Steve, the Mac Daddy of Metrosexuals. You man, YOU are just SO DAMN COOL! And trendy, too. You look fabulous in that mock turtleneck. Now - can you please get over yourself and spare a minute for the rest of us?

3) I'm rich enough to buy one of these things - but I concede that I expected more from Apple and the MA didn't deliver. But I may buy one anyway, cuz it would be funny to post a YouTube video using it to fry eggs and bacon. It's actually even sloped like a George Foreman grill, so I can place a drip pan under it and eat my food virtually FAT FREE! Yeah baby, I'm cookin' with Air.

So peace to the ultra-computing metrosexuals who are buying one, an extended group hug for everyone waiting on the new MacBook Pros because if they bought anything in the current lineup they'd feel like complete idiots, and kudos to the first person to actually post a video cooking something on the MacBook George Foreman Grill.
( Last edited by lowbuzz; Jan 17, 2008 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Adding more lame jokes)
     
f1000
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Apple often introduces a new product missing key features, and then decides later to add some of the missing features, presumably because it feels it can expand that market with the new features. I wouldn't be surprised if they do that with the MacBook Air. There are a lot of complaints about its limitations, even in the context of ultra-portables.
Adding all of your "key" features would add bulk and weight to the unit, alienating much of the ultraportable market and cannibalizing MacBook/MBP sales. Maybe it's best to admit that FireWire is a lost cause and just learn to live with USB2. For those with legacy FireWire hardware, Apple will invariably introduce a dongle to bridge the connector gap. As for extra batteries and whatnot, I personally have always been able to find a jack before my batt conked out. That's what air/auto adapters and hotels are for. And the exclusion of a built-in optical drive was always a foregone conclusion, not a shocker here.

Frankly, I'm more upset that iTunes HD movie rentals require an Apple TV.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
Adding all of your "key" features would add bulk and weight to the unit
4-pin Firewire?

Maybe it's best to admit that FireWire is a lost cause and just learn to live with USB2. For those with legacy FireWire hardware, Apple will invariably introduce a dongle to bridge the connector gap. As for extra batteries and whatnot, I personally have always been able to find a jack before my batt conked out. That's what air/auto adapters and hotels are for. And the exclusion of a built-in optical drive was always a foregone conclusion, not a shocker here.
Firewire isn't legacy hardware, at least in the camcorder world. It is most definitely legacy for hard drives though I agree.

Frankly, I'm more upset that iTunes HD movie rentals require an Apple TV.
They do? Really? That does suck.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by lowbuzz View Post
There seem to be 3 camps here:
{snip}
Uh, I think you're missing the point here.

The MacBook Air is NOT meant to be a MacBook Pro. I don't understand why people are having trouble grasping that. Maybe its because Apple has never before made a laptop that didn't house everything in the same chassis. Maybe its because people were expecting a shrunken-down MacBook Pro (which is what I thought would be coming out).

Apple is going after the ultralight/ultrathin category, a VERY different market segment. I think Apple knows they wont sell 10 million $3000 laptops with missing ports or a small screen. But that hasn't stopped Sony, Dell, Toshiba, and many others?

Think Sony sells huge numbers of 11" Vaio TZ series machines with 1.06GHz ultra-low voltage processors? I don't. And they cost between $1800-$3500.

The ultralights have compromises - necessary to make 'em small and light. Don't like it, don't buy it. But Apple wont make a custom notebook just for you - they sell to what they think will be competitive.
     
 
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