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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Am I the only one who thinks the Early 2008 MBPs will be the best ever made?

Am I the only one who thinks the Early 2008 MBPs will be the best ever made? (Page 3)
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Simon
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Nov 30, 2008, 06:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I loved my 800 MHz 12" iBook, though, I still yearn for a machine that small. (Unfortunately, the ProBook's screen is just that much better compared to the MacBook )
That's where I feel there's a problem. The MBA's screen would be better, but it's a whole lot more expensive than the MB and yet it's not smaller (thiner yes, but just as wide and deep). And let's be honest, the MB isn't really small (like the 12" PB). It's smaller, but not small. Anybody who's had to use on in coach will have noticed that.

And this is where the netbook discussion usually takes off so I'll just stop here.
     
iREZ
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Nov 30, 2008, 02:49 PM
 
haaahahah...

Oreo: i agree that the ibook was almost identical to the powerbook, but my powerbook did clamshell mode (which i used OFTEN) and thus chose over the ibook. obviously it had its short coming (screen, ram, heat, graphics, etc...) but its still my favorite mac ever used, LOVED that lil bugger and i lament whenever i think back about selling it to a total noob that probably f'd it all up (what the hell was i thinking).
NOW YOU SEE ME! 2.4 MBP and 2.0 MBP (running ubuntu)
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 30, 2008, 03:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by iREZ View Post
Oreo: i agree that the ibook was almost identical to the powerbook, but my powerbook did clamshell mode (which i used OFTEN) and thus chose over the ibook.
The iBook did clamshell mode and screen spanning, too. All you needed to do was enter some commands in the Open Firmware interface to unlock them. (That's because monitor spanning improves my productivity a lot.)

Especially with that hack, the difference in feature set seems very small. (I loved my iBook, too, though.) Interestingly enough, the new MacBook is actually 100 g lighter than the 12" PowerBook. Size-wise, the MacBook is quite good (it's as small as it gets if you want a 13" wide screen) and I'd be ok with that. Since I love taking pictures, the screen makes it really hard to enthusiastically choose a MacBook. If only Apple offered an optional screen upgrade … </dreaming>
Originally Posted by Simon
That's where I feel there's a problem. The MBA's screen would be better, but it's a whole lot more expensive than the MB and yet it's not smaller (thiner yes, but just as wide and deep).
The AirBook is too restrictive for me in terms of cpu power and RAM. Plus, it isn't cheap. I love the design and I get the `want one' cravings whenever I see one. But a MacBook with a decent panel would be perfect.
Originally Posted by Simon
And let's be honest, the MB isn't really small (like the 12" PB). It's smaller, but not small. Anybody who's had to use on in coach will have noticed that.
It doesn't seem so much smaller than an iBook, although, I haven't used a MacBook for any of my personal work.
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freudling
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Dec 2, 2008, 09:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Personally, I didn't think the 12" PowerBook was that great of a machine (I used the 1 GHz model for a period of about six months), I always thought it was an iBook with a metal enclosure. It was only marginally lighter (by about 100 g), the screen wasn't really that much better and speedwise, there wasn't much difference either (compared to a G4 iBook, of course).

I loved my 800 MHz 12" iBook, though, I still yearn for a machine that small. (Unfortunately, the ProBook's screen is just that much better compared to the MacBook )
I agree with your assessment of the 12" PowerBook (today anyway) for the most part. It certainly was better, however, than the 12" iBook white Dual USB. For me, the screen on the 12" PowerBook was noticeably better than the iBooks, although not such a difference as to deter me from using the iBook and motivating me to buy a 12" PowerBook.

Personally, I did not find much utility in an overpriced 12" iBook. Yet, I did an article way back comparing to the two units, and concluded that the PowerBook was the better machine and worth it if you could afford it.

I would say that about a year after the 12" PowerBook was released, it was only something useful to a select few: 12" screens just don't work well with OS X and modern, multi-media rich internet. For Photographers, Film types, etc., who are in the field, sure, it has utility... but in today's world not near as much as it did. Apple is right to stay with at least 13.3" wide screens: anything less compromises one's ability to compute.

For your reading pleasure, I dug up the article if you are interested:

http://www.allianceatlantis.tv/Downl...2%20AlBook.pdf
     
CharlesS
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Dec 2, 2008, 09:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
The iBook did clamshell mode and screen spanning, too. All you needed to do was enter some commands in the Open Firmware interface to unlock them. (That's because monitor spanning improves my productivity a lot.)
Technically you can do it, but I'm not sure I'd want to risk running a computer in clamshell mode if it wasn't supported - didn't the iBooks dissipate heat through the keyboard? In clamshell mode, that would be going straight into the screen.

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OreoCookie
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Dec 3, 2008, 03:25 AM
 
Nope, they didn't dissipate more or less heat than a 12" PowerBook at similar speeds. It was an artificial move by Apple to differentiate PowerBooks and iBooks (especially since the first 12" PowerBook was technically very, very similar to an iBook).
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CharlesS
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Dec 3, 2008, 03:38 AM
 
It's not how much heat it dissipated, it's how it dissipated that heat. IIRC (and I could be wrong), the iBook dissipated through the keyboard, which wouldn't work if the lid were closed.

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OreoCookie
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Dec 3, 2008, 03:55 AM
 
I know what you've said, but I've never heard of any problems. The G3s and G4s don't nearly dissipate as much heat as a Core 2 Duo.
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Simon
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Dec 3, 2008, 03:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
It's not how much heat it dissipated, it's how it dissipated that heat. IIRC (and I could be wrong), the iBook dissipated through the keyboard, which wouldn't work if the lid were closed.
IIRC the Pismo did that and maybe the clamshell iBook, but I'm pretty certain the white iBooks didn't do that anymore.

That said, you can start in closed-lid mode and then open the lid if you're worried about heat. The internal screen will stay off regardless of lid position as long as the external screen remains connected.
     
freudling
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Dec 3, 2008, 05:23 AM
 
The Dual USB iBooks had fan vents in the back and on the port side.
     
b1NARY73
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Dec 3, 2008, 05:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I don't agree. The new design makes the old one look incredibly dated.
Negative.
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OreoCookie
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Dec 3, 2008, 06:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The Dual USB iBooks had fan vents in the back and on the port side.
Right, the ones on the back were hidden by the hinge, though. (Very neat design if you ask me )
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iREZ
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Dec 3, 2008, 11:59 AM
 
correct me if I'm wrong but i remember the screen hack only working for dual display mode but no matter what i tried i could never get it to work in clamshell mode on my ex gf's ibook (800mhz).
NOW YOU SEE ME! 2.4 MBP and 2.0 MBP (running ubuntu)
     
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Dec 3, 2008, 03:00 PM
 
You never forget your first love; the Powerbook 1400cs/166. I loved that machine and remember the day I sold it on eBay. I sold it because the iMacs came out and I had to have one. Worst. trade. ever.

Powerbook 1400

I recall almost buying a used Powerbook 190cs at Computer Renaissance before purchasing the 1400 at CompUSA's Apple Store.

I will be buying a MacBook after Christmas, not sure which one yet, but I will be buying one.
MacBook 13.3" C2D 2.0ghz 2gb/160gb
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 3, 2008, 03:04 PM
 
@iRez
Follow the instructions on this page, then you can activate clamshell mode. I tried it only for the fun of it, what I really wanted was screen spanning (FYI I also had the 800 MHz G3 model.)
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
TailsToo
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Dec 7, 2008, 12:30 AM
 
I love my MacBook Pro (Late 2006) but I think my number one will always been the iBook Dual USB. It was an amazing computer in such a small case!
     
thechidz
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Dec 8, 2008, 06:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Now that I have my own Early 2008 MBP, I'm wondering if I'm the only one who assumes that Apple will never produce a better laptop. The matte option in particular, as well FW 400 (in addition to 800) and the non-black-chicklet keyboard, really stand out to me as being far better than what Apple has transitioned to. I know that future MBPs will be even more powerful, but I don't know if that will compensate for the features lost in the new line.
I am sooooo with you. I have the 2.5 matte early 08 and will be keeping this machine for 3-4 years. Apple design has gone the route of Paris Hilton.
     
~bash $
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Dec 12, 2008, 03:43 AM
 
I bought a new MBP a month ago and am loving it. As soon as I handled one at the Apple store, I was impressed. The engineering genius of this laptop is not simply in the new construction, though that has to do with it.

The basic design of the PowerBook/MacBook Pro has been preserved arguably since the TiBooks, in many respects, though it went through significant internal revision since then. People see gray case and think it's the same, and people see ports moved from the back to the side and think it's different without recognizing how different it actually is. However, I find them to be pretty closely related because NONE of the new design revisions since TiBook solved its two major problems: handleability and hard drive upgrade.

While it can easily be argued that HDD upgrade is a relatively rare event, it is only one of two things on a laptop that needs to be easily accessible. This design goal has been missed in the pro laptop line since the TiBook. Recall how easy it was in Pismo - just lift up the keyboard, and you're nearly there. The TiBook was notoriously difficult, and a lot of people had trouble getting the case to re-fit properly upon reassembly. Even my MBP 3,1 was difficult to get apart and reassemble - I'm no expert but over 5 trials got my HDD installation time down to about 18 minutes.

Handling a Pismo was fine - 6.3 lb but a solid case that didn't flex considerably under its own weight when supported by one hand. It's a laptop; this should be kind of a basic requirement to me. TiBooks (5 lb) were awful at this! My MBP also felt like it was flexing a ton under its own 5.4 lb weight. The optical drive would clearly flex even with gentle one-handed carrying.

But the unibody design fixes both of these problems. While I still maintain that the older MacBook design had the most phenomenal hard drive installation scheme (3 screws and pull the tab, right?), this one is not bad. RAM is what, 8 screws away? Not the best ever but not bad.

While I'm a huge fan of the RHS optical slot and the older keyboard (actually, I loved the Pismo board), the only things I miss on my older MBP are the power button, FW400 port, and no-glass screen. The phenomenal build quality of the unibodies has been well worth it.

Let's talk internals. What I appreciate about this design is that they managed to meet all of these requirements and organize the boards in such a tight space. Brilliant. It's easy to see why ports got lost in the process on the MBP (MB FW issue is another one entirely). The new MBPs appear to be a speed bump from the most recent "Early 2008" MBPs, right? Except we're talking a rather different architecture now. We're now on NVIDIA 9600M, not Intel. With the 1.1 GHz bus speeds and memory speeds, we're a step closer to Amdahl's Other Law, which I think strives to balance bandwidth I/O with processing. And most importantly, it's clear that the move to NVIDIA is in anticipation of the benefits that will been seen in SL.

While I certainly understand that there won't be linear scaling for the majority of operations for those that are parallelized (unless embarrassingly //), I also think that the benefits for HPC using OpenCL are going to be impressive. I am very excited about this in SL, and that's the primary reason why these new MBPs were such a no brainer for me.

Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
The last Apple laptop I saw where the keyboard left imprints on the screen was the Pismo, back in 2000.
The TiBooks did it, along with my PB 12" and my (old) MBP.

Originally Posted by Maflynn View Post
I disagree with that sentiment. True you can be on the "bleeding" edge at times but some of the changes are such that it makes little sense to hold off on purchasing a laptop (or any other product) because its the first revision. I've purchased many revision A products from apple and the clear majority of them have been defect free. Getting a second or third revision is no guarantee that it will be defect/bug free either.

There are exceptions, such as the revision A of the MBA but the MacBook Pro changes are so radical to hold off purchasing one especially if you need a laptop
Just my $.02
Yeah, Rev. A of the MBA was awful, huh? I'd be pretty frustrated especially after seeing nearly all performance problems apparently addressed in Rev. B. This is my first Rev. A Apple machine, after having avoided them for so long. I feel pretty fortunate, though, since I'm having a great experience so far. This unibody may just well usurp my love of all things Pismo ....
( Last edited by ~bash $; Dec 12, 2008 at 03:50 AM. )
     
steve666
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Dec 14, 2008, 03:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Now that I have my own Early 2008 MBP, I'm wondering if I'm the only one who assumes that Apple will never produce a better laptop. The matte option in particular, as well FW 400 (in addition to 800) and the non-black-chicklet keyboard, really stand out to me as being far better than what Apple has transitioned to. I know that future MBPs will be even more powerful, but I don't know if that will compensate for the features lost in the new line.
I just bought a matte MBP from MacConnection on clearance and I wish I loved it, but the screen appears somewhat blurry to me and the colors are kind of washed out. I calibrated it but still for some reason it bothers my eyes. I'm wondering if maybe the LED backlight is the issue. I had a 14 inch ibook and had no problem at all with the screen.
I also don't like the aluminum. The wrist rest is freaking cold in the morning and feels wierd-kind of rough.
I guess I'm in the minority. I don't like glare though so the new ones are out for me, I also heard some people are getting headaches from the new ones. I'm considering a plastic macbook, which even though glossy as least its not glass covered.
     
Simon
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Dec 14, 2008, 03:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by steve666 View Post
I also don't like the aluminum. The wrist rest is freaking cold in the morning and feels wierd-kind of rough.
Instead of turning your MBP off or sending it to sleep for the night, just leave it on. It will be nice and warm in the morning.
     
amazing
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Dec 14, 2008, 11:11 AM
 
I'm gonna say this once again about the screen, at least for the matte screen (haven't tried it on a glossy): In the color tab of the Display Prefs, uncheck the button that restricts the choices to "Show profiles for this display only" so that you can choose one of the RGB preferences. I use the Adobe RGB setting, and the screen looks much, much, much better.

Photographers can disregard this advice, natch.

Any laptop is an experiment in compromise. My Ti-400 looked absolutely great, but the wireless reception was absolutely abysmal. Getting the HD in and out was OK, and putting the bottom cover on was so-so, with some minimal manual dexterity. Totally doable. The terrible wireless range was solved with a PMCIA wireless card, natively supported--the wireless difference was night and day.

I raged against the wireless range in many a forum post. Apple stayed with that terrible antenna design decision for an unfathomable number of revisions--and I got no catharsis whatsoever out of derisive forum posts.

These forum posts serve mostly to educate people about how they need to think about what THEIR particular needs and preferences are, and about THEIR buying decision needs to reflect THEIR needs. So many posters go around rationalizing their glossy (or matte) decision by recommending it to all and sundry: After all, they've spent a quite goodly amount of money, so they've now got to convince themselves that the money was well spent.

Truth is that glossy/matte will work for some but not others. Aluminum/plastic will work for some but not others. First revisions will entice some but the risk averse had better stay away. So before you fork out the money, you better know you own tastes and prefs.
     
steve666
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Dec 14, 2008, 01:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Instead of turning your MBP off or sending it to sleep for the night, just leave it on. It will be nice and warm in the morning.
Don't think the computer would or my energy bill would like that too much!
     
Simon
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Dec 14, 2008, 03:00 PM
 
The computer won't mind. It was built to be used. Use it!
     
steve666
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Dec 14, 2008, 10:13 PM
 
I think I am going to try and see if they will take it back and go easy on me about the restocking fee. I hope they are in a xmas spirit!
     
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Dec 15, 2008, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by steve666 View Post
I think I am going to try and see if they will take it back and go easy on me about the restocking fee. I hope they are in a xmas spirit!
I'm guessing if you mentioned you are a frequent shopper and will return they'd do anything for you. This Christmas time anything flies at the stores - they just want business of some kind. It's a great time to be a consumer!
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steve666
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Dec 15, 2008, 12:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Proudest Monkey View Post
I'm guessing if you mentioned you are a frequent shopper and will return they'd do anything for you. This Christmas time anything flies at the stores - they just want business of some kind. It's a great time to be a consumer!
I'm going to try that, also will say when (if) the new Mini arrives I will buy it from them.
     
 
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