Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > CMS Questions and Thoughts

CMS Questions and Thoughts
Thread Tools
mitchell_pgh
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 6, 2009, 12:08 PM
 
A friend of mine is in charge of a University Web site and the CMS it is built on is called FatWire. Does anyone have experience with this platform? I've done a bit of research and most of the news is generally positive, but reads like a press release. There are clearly large companies out there using it... but again, there doesn't seem to be much talk about it.

FatWire
http://www.fatwire.com/cs/Satellite/Page/Home

The fact that their site goes to http://www.fatwire.com/cs/Satellite/Page/Home as their main Web site makes me cringe.

Also, if you were to implement a CMS (for a ~1500 hits a day site), what would you use?
     
Eriamjh
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: BFE
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 6, 2009, 12:27 PM
 
I have been looking at CMS software for a while for my Lincoln-related sites and personal site. I have found some really nice Joomla templates, but none are free. I haven't implemented any, but I have played with a couple on my Mac using MAMP to run php, etc.

The Fatwire link is so long is likely due to the way they nested or embedded their CMS. I think a web site should go to the root page, but it doesn't have to.

I couldn't find what Fatwire runs on (Unix or Windows). I was not really impressed.

I'm a bird. I am the 1% (of pets).
     
Demonhood
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Land of the Easily Amused
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 6, 2009, 12:51 PM
 
just started using modx - Content Management System, PHP Application Framework, Web Application Framework & More - MODx
fairly powerful, once you get the hang of it. there are no templates, so trying to shoehorn your design into some wacky system isn't needed. the workflow is more like: design page, html-ize it, chop it into snippets for modx, save, done.

but we'll see how it works after i've been using it for a few months.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 7, 2009, 10:58 AM
 
Never heard of Fatwire, and I investigated CMSs pretty thoroughly before settling on ExpressionEngine.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
mitchell_pgh  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 10, 2009, 08:30 AM
 
Yah, the company seems to be a CMS for very large organizations. I've had the opportunity to tinker around with it and it seems more like a CMS foundation where you can build upon it. It has a grocery list of things that it can do, but I'm still a skeptic.

I've looked at ExpressionEngine and it looks great. That said, there are free alternatives that do 75% of that it does. If all you need is that 75%... you can go free.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 10, 2009, 06:57 PM
 
It also depends on how complex, user friendly, and feature full you need this to be. If you are looking for something really simple, WordPress might be a good choice. It actually is a pretty good CMS.
     
mitchell_pgh  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 12, 2009, 05:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
It also depends on how complex, user friendly, and feature full you need this to be. If you are looking for something really simple, WordPress might be a good choice. It actually is a pretty good CMS.
I agree... I keep going back to WordPress and saying "So, why aren't we using this?" My main reasons are security... and that it is perceived as a blogging platform (not a CMS). That said, I've seen some VERY slick, and rather complex, sites that use it. Also, more and more organizations are using it.

Hmmmm.....
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 12, 2009, 05:57 PM
 
Most of those WordPress security fixes are just cross site scripting related problems. Just to be clear, if you disable comment submission so that no user input is allowed to your site, security is not of great concern. I'm not suggesting that security is of concern if you do accept comments, especially if you apply the updates, but just that I don't really think you ought to be worried if you aren't accepting user input. I run dozens of WordPress sites and haven't had any security related issues with any of them, FWIW...
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 12, 2009, 05:57 PM
 
The cost of an expressionengine license is pretty cheap, and it's much more flexible (and better designed) than some of the popular free alternatives.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 12, 2009, 05:57 PM
 
WordPress does have some weaknesses as a CMS, but it is also very user friendly for novice users who might be using it, and you can get a fair bit of mileage out of its overall design.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 04:01 PM
 
Big Mac: I'm not sure that a commercial CMS is a smart idea from a business perspective, looking at it from EE's perspective. I have no doubts that EE is a good CMS, I have heard positive things about it, but there are 932094348 CMSes out there. As somebody researching these, you will start to compare and contrast and weed out pros and cons. During this process there will be people that weed out having to pay for this as a con, and in the meantime they might come across something they *think* (rightfully or otherwise) will work for them, they'll get invested in this and probably will not want to turn back.

Alternatively, if EE just marketed itself as the best CMS out there, remove the cost as a con and a barrier for getting people to check it out so that it just became (I need a CMS, duh, it's a no brainer, I need EE), its adoption rate would grow. Hopefully they could find other ways to make a profit like WordPress seems to do.

IOW, don't encourage people to look around, make their search begin and end with EE.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 04:21 PM
 
I understand your advocacy of FOSS. However, the EE one-time license fee per major version is so cheap it's virtually free. I don't see it as a major barrier to entry for anyone intending to make a quality website. With that said, it's just a suggestion.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 04:40 PM
 
The EE guys seem to be doing all right for themselves. Yes, some people don't want to pay money, but so what? Like, really, who gives a crap? Why should they find other ways to make a profit?
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 04:58 PM
 
Sure it's a barrier. For starters, on sharing hosting systems you are going to have to install this yourself, and as a developer you are going to have to run this cost by your client, evaluate, deal with entering the license info, etc. These hassles can definitely be minimized, but how is the customer to know what sort of hassle they are getting into? All you need is a bare minimal *perception* of hassle, and it's a problem. There is no shortage of supply of competition, the strength of the competition being fairly irrelevant to anybody that hasn't formed their own opinions already.

Big Mac: this in no way invalidates your suggestion, don't get me wrong, I'm just looking at this through the lens of EE and questioning whether this is wise for them. If they are doing all right for themselves, great, although I still think that they could be doing even better.

Chuckit: you are being reactionary, arguing against something that hasn't been said.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 07:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Chuckit: you are being reactionary, arguing against something that hasn't been said.
I was arguing against the idea that ExpressionEngine should "remove the cost" and "find other ways to make a profit," both of which were said. Did you mean something else?

I just don't see why you think giving their entire product away for free will make them more money. Like, that seems contrary to all logic.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 07:37 PM
 
Chuckit: well, you seemed to take "should" as some sort of consumer demand. They can charge whatever they want for it and I can choose to buy it or not, that's not the issue, I'm not placing any demands. Your tone suggested some sort of reaction to what you seemed to perceive was open source zealotry. Whatever zeal I have for open source is not related to some sort of belief that developers should not make money by selling their stuff.

My "should" was a recommendation to them as a company for increasing visibility by removing barriers. I don't see the wisdom for them as a company to charge without the traction of being a highly dominant CMS. The market is saturated with CMSes, I don't see the strategy behind encouraging their customers to look elsewhere, deterred by the perception of inconvenience or whatever...
     
CharlesS
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Dec 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 07:45 PM
 
Besson, are there any FOSS CMS apps that have automatic converters for popular formats like .doc and .rtf, so that users can upload files in whatever formats they have them in and it will convert it to the CMS's internal format (or to HTML)?

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 08:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
I just don't see why you think giving their entire product away for free will make them more money. Like, that seems contrary to all logic.

How does WordPress do it?
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 08:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Besson, are there any FOSS CMS apps that have automatic converters for popular formats like .doc and .rtf, so that users can upload files in whatever formats they have them in and it will convert it to the CMS's internal format (or to HTML)?
Not that I know of. Some allow you to post by email, but I think there problems with this approach, as well as possibly with what you want to do. How are images handled? What template is assigned to the content? Parent? URL? There is a number of metadata that I can't see how you could reliably set this way. If you are going to have to touch the content anyway to define these sorts of things, it's probably just as easy to paste in your content (although I wouldn't recommend doing this from Word). My two cents.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 13, 2009, 08:19 PM
 
ChuckIt: to be honest, I haven't looked to see how WordPress makes their money, but it's not hard to imagine many possibilities:

- pay for elite support
- pay for custom dev, installations, etc.
- host sites using your CMS like wordpress.com does.
- pay if your business is a certain size
- find some wealthy sponsor
- accept donations, run ads on the site

This is the classic question of pricing: do you go for sheer volume, or for a lower volume at higher prices? With the the fragmentation of use in the world of CMSes, I don't see how you could do anything but volume, at least long enough to claim dominance and establish traction.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:41 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,