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The Official "Daylight Savings Time Discussion" Thread
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ghporter
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Mar 13, 2010, 10:59 PM
 
I think it's all hooey in this day and age. Nobody needs "extra daylight for farming," the suggestion that it saves energy is not only disingenuous but completely false, and again, we're about to be on DST for another 7+ months. If I could figure out what angle Congress members have for making this happen and keeping it going every year - earlier than it ever used to be - I might have some sort of reason to feel it's useful. But I can't. I can't see who's making money off of it, nor what real, substantive and useful effect it has.

Shall we discuss this?

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Mar 13, 2010, 11:29 PM
 
Tell it to Chávez.
     
imitchellg5
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Mar 13, 2010, 11:40 PM
 
I like it being light late at night.
     
Cold Warrior
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Mar 13, 2010, 11:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I like it being light late at night.
You might enjoy St Petersburg's White Nights. It's really quite nice to be out all night and the sun almost never sets.
     
olePigeon
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Mar 14, 2010, 01:42 AM
 
Officially adjust the clock by 30 minutes, then leave it alone. I don't think 30 minutes is going to make that much of a difference in our largely services-based economy.
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ort888
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Mar 14, 2010, 02:16 AM
 
I HATE daylight savings time.

I think it's some sort of nefarious commie plot to make us all tired.

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iMOTOR
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Mar 14, 2010, 03:10 AM
 
I have always thought DST was nonsense. Just keep the clocks normal, and if you find it necessary, adjust your operating hours.

Should have been a poll.
     
turtle777
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Mar 14, 2010, 03:38 AM
 
I think we should keep it as a reminder of unnecessary regulation.

Lest we shall implement more pseudo-scientific and pseudo-economic regulations like cap & trade.

-t
     
besson3c
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Mar 14, 2010, 03:52 AM
 
If Obama was really all about change he would have did away with daylight savings time! Another example of a failure administration.
     
ghporter  (op)
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Mar 14, 2010, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by iMOTOR View Post
I have always thought DST was nonsense. Just keep the clocks normal, and if you find it necessary, adjust your operating hours.

Should have been a poll.
Maybe it should have been a poll, but I was just starting to figure out how many clocks I'll have to manually adjust (still haven't done any) and how many "time pieces" do it themselves when I decided to share my distaste for this practice.

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imitchellg5
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Mar 14, 2010, 12:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
You might enjoy St Petersburg's White Nights. It's really quite nice to be out all night and the sun almost never sets.
Not to that extreme. I spent a year in Barrow, Alaska, and 24 hours of daylight wasn't a highlight. If there is a highlight to Barrow.
     
richwig83
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Mar 14, 2010, 12:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Officially adjust the clock by 30 minutes, then leave it alone. I don't think 30 minutes is going to make that much of a difference in our largely services-based economy.
Thats certainly my thought on it!
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placebo1969
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Mar 14, 2010, 12:56 PM
 
It's Daylight Saving Time without the s.
     
turtle777
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Mar 14, 2010, 01:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
If Obama was really all about change he would have did away with daylight savings time! Another example of a failure administration.
I blame it on Bush.

-t
     
subego
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Mar 14, 2010, 01:53 PM
 
I can see why it seems useless in San Antonio, where the sun comes up at about 5:30 CST during summer, but in Chicago, the sun is up at about 4:30 CST.

We're basically getting a free hour of sun, since almost no one is up during our sunrise. For as far south as you are, it's more like robbing Peter to pay Paul.
     
ghporter  (op)
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Mar 14, 2010, 02:20 PM
 
But when does the sun set in Chicago? We wind up with sunset well after 8pm here-and I recall it being similar when I was growing up in the Detroit area...

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subego
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Mar 14, 2010, 09:43 PM
 
About 8:30.

Wait... How isn't that awesome?
     
Phileas
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Mar 14, 2010, 09:48 PM
 
The further north you are, the more sense it makes. I remember when I lived in the UK, I drove to work in the dark and arrived back home in the dark during winter. The time change marked the beginning of the good times.

Up here in Canada it means long, light evenings. I'm all for it.
     
AKcrab
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Mar 14, 2010, 09:54 PM
 
Waste of time and money. There is no "savings".

I looked into getting it changed here in AK, but was told "either you do it or you don't, you don't get to pick". Wait a minute.. "Don't get to pick".. That's what we already do twice a year!

I would like to see AK the same as the west coast half the year, and an hour behind the other half. (Assuming the rest of you stick with the current program..)

It seems that's not the way it works, and AK would have to be one hour later for half the year, and TWO hours later for the other half.

It's all just absurd and stupid.
     
macforray
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Mar 14, 2010, 09:55 PM
 
I think people's opinions are based on what they do in there spare time after work. I like to bass fish, but here in the north it's hard to launch your boat when there's ice on the lake, river or pond. Bottom line is that I get to fish only certain month's of the year. I get home from work at 4:30 - 5:00 pm during the summer. I can hook up the boat, travel 15 minutes, and be on the water fishing. With DST I can be out until 8:30 - 9:00 pm with good safe light. In other words, I get to do what I enjoy doing for an extra hour every day that I choose to do it. Please try to understand this. I look forward to DST every year, and as the daylight hours grow longer, I take full advantage of this.

Thanks.
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Wiskedjak
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Mar 14, 2010, 09:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I like it being light late at night.
Sure, we all do. So, why don't we just leave our clocks at *this* setting? Why do we set them *back* an hour in the Fall?
     
subego
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Mar 14, 2010, 11:49 PM
 
Because if we didn't, sundown in Winter (at its worst) would be at like 3:30.
     
ort888
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Mar 15, 2010, 12:17 AM
 
Am I the only person who likes nighttime better then daytime?

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besson3c
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Mar 15, 2010, 12:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Am I the only person who likes nighttime better then daytime?
Nope! The sun sucks, especially in the morning.
     
ghporter  (op)
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Mar 15, 2010, 07:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
About 8:30.

Wait... How isn't that awesome?
In a lot of ways. I've been an early worker for a very long time, and having the sun set at 8:30 makes it more difficult to get to sleep before 9:30 or 10:00. When you have to get up at 4:30 AM, that's a big problem.

And considering that we'd all have sunset somewhere between 7:30 and 8:00 in the continental US without DST, causing a huge disturbance in everyone's circadian rhythms twice a year for an extra 30 or so minutes of "daylight" (on average) does not seem to be worth it. Especially if that is the only real benefit of the custom-which I think is the fact of the matter.

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auto_immune
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Mar 15, 2010, 07:31 AM
 
I prefer the phase of an "extra" hour of sunlight in the evening hours, and I also have a better chance of seeing the sunrise during this time. (I work at night - 7p-7a)
     
Oisín
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Mar 15, 2010, 07:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
In a lot of ways. I've been an early worker for a very long time, and having the sun set at 8:30 makes it more difficult to get to sleep before 9:30 or 10:00. When you have to get up at 4:30 AM, that's a big problem.
But you’re in the minority there. Most people don’t get up before 6 AM, at which point it gets more than a little irritating to have the Sun rise in (what is for the rest of us) the middle of the night.

If we didn’t set our clocks forward, we’d have sunrises at 3:30 AM in June, and sunsets already at 9 PM. Conversely, if we didn’t set our clocks back in winter, the Sun wouldn’t rise till about 9:30 AM towards the end of December. Granted, it wouldn’t set till around 4:30 PM, either (instead of 3:30 PM as it is now); but I think the majority of people prefer that it’s not dark till far up in the morning, rather than having longer daylight in the afternoon when it’s dark most of the day, anyway.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 15, 2010, 08:29 AM
 
In this age of self-adjusting clocks, maybe we should adjust our clocks by 5 minute increments (or whatever the math works out to) every day ...
     
BadKosh
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Mar 15, 2010, 11:30 AM
 
I'd like it better if it started the weekend before Halloween(not After), and was over by St. Patricks day. Drinking in daylight is good!
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 15, 2010, 11:38 AM
 
DST killed my father and raped my mother.
     
Oisín
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Mar 15, 2010, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
DST killed my father and raped my mother.
No, that was me. I just framed DST.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 15, 2010, 11:44 AM
 
I still hate DST more.
     
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Mar 15, 2010, 01:28 PM
 
I dislike a lot of things, particularly DST.
Let's just keep the clock set ahead and end it.

Or plan B: Every 3rd year in Spring the clock gets set 41 minutes ahead, but during the Winter solstice it's set back by 12. Each alternating year thereafter the changes are reversed but divided by pi to achieve the new time. If it's raining during the Spring or Winter time change, 8 minutes are deducted from the original period and not divided by pi, unless it's an alternating year - in this case it's reversed and pi is multiplied by the difference between the batting averages of the two top American and National League teams. yeah, that'll work.
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ort888
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Mar 15, 2010, 01:41 PM
 
Daylight Saving Time + 6 month old baby = Suck

His schedule is all jacked up now.

Another reason to hate DST that I had never thought of before...

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DrTacoMD
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Mar 15, 2010, 03:41 PM
 
It's annoying. I lived for over a decade in Arizona, where they don't follow DST. After moving to Seattle, I have yet to remember to change my clocks. Just yesterday I woke up and was baffled as to why my cellphone had one time, but my alarm clock had another. I don't really have anything against it, except for the stupid clock-switching part, and the fact that my weekend was only 47 hours long.

Damn you, DST!
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Mar 15, 2010, 05:21 PM
 
I've lived in countries both with and without DST. I've lived in countries with a permanent DST on (high noon at 1300)

I've never heard anyone claim DST was for farmers, yet there is DST. Maybe that's an American reasoning.

All in all since I am a B-person, I like DST since it gives more light in the evening, while if I was an A-person I'd probably prefer more light in the morning.

DST is all about light and light distribution throughout the day and some think that most people can enjoy the most light by using DST - I tend to agree, at least I get more light over the day with DST than without.
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olePigeon
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Mar 15, 2010, 05:24 PM
 
If they adjusted the time permanently by 30 minutes, would you really notice, voodoo?
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SpaceMonkey
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Mar 15, 2010, 05:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo
I've never heard anyone claim DST was for farmers, yet there is DST. Maybe that's an American reasoning.
As a matter of fact, DST usually inconveniences farmers. I think this reasoning is apocryphal. DST is primarily designed to help retailers, sports, and other evening activities. Modern DST originated in the late 19th century, when evening street lighting was less widespread (in rural areas) and was a higher proportion of total electrical usage.

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nonhuman
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Mar 15, 2010, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
As a matter of fact, DST usually inconveniences farmers. I think this reasoning is apocryphal. DST is primarily designed to help retailers, sports, and other evening activities. Modern DST originated in the late 19th century, when evening street lighting was less widespread (in rural areas) and was a higher proportion of total electrical usage.
What do you mean when you say 'Modern DST'? Benjamin Franklin advocated DST in the 18th century as a method to save on candle wax (which it might have been more effective at compared to conserving electricity, but who knows).
     
voodoo
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Mar 15, 2010, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
If they adjusted the time permanently by 30 minutes, would you really notice, voodoo?
I doubt it - but I never really found it acceptable to have noon at 1300-1330 (depending on my location in Iceland).. noon at 1230 is probably not very noticeable at all. As a compromise, it would probably work.

Since the time is supposed to measure the sun (right?) it would be most logical to adapt working hours to the clock instead of the other way around. E.g. in the summer you'd simply start work at 0900 instead of 0800.

I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing, but I do like my bright evenings. So I lean towards DST.
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Eug
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Mar 15, 2010, 05:32 PM
 
I grew up in Saskatchewan. Their main economic output is agriculture. The farmers oppose DST, and therefore there is no DST there.

I now live in Ontario. We have DST. And I hate it... at least on that Monday (today) after the spring forward.

     
ort888
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Mar 15, 2010, 05:35 PM
 
Before the adoption of air conditioners it did save power. Now that everyone has AC... it actually uses more power.

The conspiracy theory I have heard is that it's the energy companies that keep putting down any attempt to change it.

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SpaceMonkey
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Mar 15, 2010, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
What do you mean when you say 'Modern DST'? Benjamin Franklin advocated DST in the 18th century as a method to save on candle wax (which it might have been more effective at compared to conserving electricity, but who knows).
Well, I think he advocated getting up early on general principle. No one really cared about specific hours in those days, so I doubt he would have proposed everyone setting their clocks forward an hour. The system we use today was proposed in the late 19th century and not adopted really until World War One.

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nonhuman
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Mar 15, 2010, 05:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Well, I think he advocated getting up early on general principle. No one really cared about specific hours in those days, so I doubt he would have proposed everyone setting their clocks forward an hour. The system we use today was proposed in the late 19th century and not adopted really until World War One.
Ah, it appears that he advocated a DST-like system in a satirical essay targeting the Parisians: Daylight saving time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I knew I remembered reading something about DST when I read a biography of him a few years ago, guess I just didn't remember that somewhat salient detail.
     
ort888
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Mar 15, 2010, 06:29 PM
 
Today I had to crawl under my desk to change the timer plug on my lava lamp. F#%* YOU Daylight Saving Time!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!

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besson3c
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Mar 15, 2010, 06:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Today I had to crawl under my desk to change the timer plug on my lava lamp. F#%* YOU Daylight Saving Time!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!
Whatever happened to "change we can believe in"?
     
reader50
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Mar 15, 2010, 07:16 PM
 
If someone put DST on a ballot initiative, I suspect it would be an easy kill in most states.

Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I now live in Ontario. We have DST. And I hate it... at least on that Monday (today) after the spring forward.

Eug, you don't look at all like I pictured you. And I'm not at all sure that's a Mac.
     
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Mar 16, 2010, 07:33 AM
 
I love DST, but I think we have it all backwards. In the winter, we should be moving the clocks ahead an hour from DST, not back to standard. Damn the morning sun, I want it to stay light as late as possible (about 9PM is good). During the winter, the daylight hours are so short it gets dark at 5:15PM in December!

Obviously, if you live more in the south than I, it's not as severe. Sorry, Alaska. I think you get screwed no matter what time of year it is.

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