Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Foxconn and Apple: Suicides expose stresses of China factory life

Foxconn and Apple: Suicides expose stresses of China factory life (Page 2)
Thread Tools
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2010, 07:47 AM
 
holy shit.

That's a lot of people out of a job.
     
christ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Gosport
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2010, 08:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
holy shit.

That's a lot of people out of a job.
At least the 800,000 suicides won't be from "iPhone maker Foxconn".

Western meddling wins again.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
Eug  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2010, 08:52 AM
 
It would seem that companies like Dell and Apple (and many others) need to choose their manufacturing partners more carefully.

Apple seems to be spending marketing bux of late emphasizing their products' greenness. However, I'd be much more interested in seeing them scrutinizing their manufacturing partners more closely. It's quite clear these companies are more than willing to turn a blind eye in the interest of profits.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2010, 09:17 AM
 
Not to completely ignore the human element here, but will this have any impact (i.e., interrupt) the manufacturing and shipping of some of Apple's products?
     
Eug  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2010, 09:29 AM
 
I doubt it, but we'll see.
     
macaddict0001
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2010, 07:38 PM
 
I wonder just what the payout to suicide victims families was.
     
Andy8
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2010, 07:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by macaddict0001 View Post
I wonder just what the payout to suicide victims families was.
About CNY300,000
     
Eug  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 11, 2010, 10:16 PM
 
With the yuan (almost) pegged at US$0.146, that's a little under US$44000.
     
iLikebeer
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: /OV DRK 142006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 12, 2010, 12:50 AM
 
So a nonstory hyped up and completely overblown by the media just got 800,000 people fired? All because a factory the size of city had suicide rates that you could expect from a similar sized city? Wow, sucks for all of those people. I wonder what the suicide rate will go to now.
     
macaddict0001
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 12, 2010, 01:00 AM
 
A motivating factor indeed!
     
mindwaves
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Irvine, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 02:23 AM
 
Let me put some comments and fears here at rest as I have intimate knowledge of what goes on in the factories in Foxconn's SZ location.

Many news outlets are improperly or falsely reporting the statistics of what Foxconn pays their workers because numbers should be taken relative to something else. I have read some of the posts here comparing wages from one city to another, but that is just silly when not taken into context.

First, Foxconn's factories are in Longhua district, which is a subdistrict of Shenzhen. Longhua is a very poor district relative to other districts in Shenzhen. Many, if not most of the people in Longhua work for one of three main companies that are located in and around Longhua, including Foxconn itself. What does this mean? It means wages should be compared to the actual cost of living itself. For example, Foxconn factory workers (who are the lowest paid compared to other workers generally speaking) make 900 RMB a month (before the 30% wage increase), but an actual apartment in Longhua cost about 400 RMB a month (1 bedroom, bath, kitchen), so they spend about 1/2 of their money on rent. Now, I am not saying that the apartment is up to Western living conditions because it is most definitely not, but compared to the rest of Longhua, it is slightly below average.

In addition, food costs are very cheap. If you eat the factory cafeterias, you would pay 1.5 RMB for breakfast, maybe 4.5 RMB for lunch, if you opt for the cheap food. Street food ranges between 1-4 RMB for most items that people buy.

Furthermore, housing including utilities in the form of company dormitories are free for all workers. Again, the living conditions are not great, but compared to other places in LH, it is adequate. Thus, they can pocket that 900 RMB (before taxes) every month because they don't have to pay rent or utilities.

So you must take things into context. For example, people here are astonished that they only make $132 USD a month and they may say that their maid makes more than that! But they forget to take into consideration of the overall living standards in a foreign country and relative to various districts and cities in that country (for example, making $1000 USD in Oklahoma is not the same as making $1000 USD in California). Thus, you cannot compare what someone makes in Beijing to what someone makes in Shenzhen. Even comparing what someone makes in Longhua district in Shenzhen compared to what someone makes in Luohuo district in Shenzhen is absurd. Comparing to what a native english speaker in China makes to what a factory worker makes ins absurd because these are 2 radically different jobs.

And one more thing, the 900 RMB a month is before bonuses. If you know how Taiwan companies pay (Foxconn is a Taiwanese company), then you would know that generally speaking, they pay a low base salary and a large (sometimes many months worth) bonus salary, and most people (including factory workers) get this bonus salary.
( Last edited by mindwaves; Jun 16, 2010 at 02:35 AM. )
{{{ mindwaves }}}
     
Eug  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 07:18 AM
 
I don't think it's absurd at all to list pay for other jobs in other cities. It really puts things in perspective when an English speaking secretary makes 6000 and a factory worker makes 900. Yes they are radically different jobs, but given that most of that 900 is being used for living expenses (400 + another maybe 300 = 700), it really does illustrate how poorly paid the factory workers were.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 08:26 AM
 
A typical legal secretary in New York makes $60,000. A teacher's aid in Iowa makes $18,000.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 09:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
A typical legal secretary in New York makes $60,000. A teacher's aid in Iowa makes $18,000.
Apples and Oranges. What does a typical legal secretary in Iowa make?
     
Eug  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 09:44 AM
 
Better yet, how much does a factory worker in Iowa make? $35000-60000?
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 10:03 AM
 
Yeah, and how much does He spend on rent, utilities, transport, and survival?
     
Eug  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 10:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Yeah, and how much does He spend on rent, utilities, transport, and survival?
That's not the point. The point is that a factory worker in any state in North America can usually make at least reasonable money by North American standards if working for a respectable company, even as compared to a legal secretary in New York.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 10:13 AM
 
Wouldn't the apropos comparison being a multi-lingual secretary here?
     
Eug  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Wouldn't the apropos comparison being a multi-lingual secretary here?
Well, around here multi-lingual secretaries are actually quite common. Just a guess, but I'd imagine a good legal secretary would make more, or at least as much.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 11:51 AM
 
Yeah, I wouldn't compare it to Canada, a multi-lingual country where they bow to the pompous Frenchies.

But in the US?
     
Eug  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 12:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't compare it to Canada, a multi-lingual country where they bow to the pompous Frenchies.

But in the US?
When I was in Florida, it seemed like just about everyone spoke Spanish as well.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 12:32 PM
 
That's because we don't have a national language to stop those damn illegals from taking over our country!

(I was thinking we should probably discount spanish in the US)
     
Eug  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 12:39 PM
 
Heh. A colleague of mine used to work in Miami. She is from the middle east, but because of her skin tone everyone just assumed she was Hispanic and wouldn't even bother with English with her at fast food places, etc. And when she didn't understand, people would look at her as if she was a complete moron.

Personally I don't think she looks Hispanic at all, but then again we have a lot more people from the middle east here so I'm used to it.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 12:49 PM
 
That sounds awful.
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 08:30 PM
 
There was a local chain of family-owned Mexican restaurants here in San Antonio a while back. Yes, they staffed with family members. The family is Persian, and even the second generation guys spoke Farsi. But they looked to most customers (even first and second generation Mexican) like they were Mexican. Pretty odd to me, as the Persian look is pretty distinctive. To me anyway.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 11:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Apples and Oranges.
That was the point. Two jobs in completely different areas and requiring completely different skillsets command completely different pay.
     
macaddict0001
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2010, 12:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't compare it to Canada, a multi-lingual country where they bow to the pompous Frenchies.

But in the US?
Actually there is quite a bit of animosity between anglophones and francophones in Canada.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:57 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,