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How do higher gas prices impact your automotive habits? (Page 2)
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sek929
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Mar 11, 2011, 11:43 PM
 
I hear those nickel battery arrays are really green too...
     
mduell
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Mar 12, 2011, 12:23 AM
 
Not really, I don't buy enough gas. Even at 16 mpg (mixed) I only buy a tank every couple weeks plus three on track weekends (but the gas is cheap compared to track fees, tires, and stuff that breaks).
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Mar 12, 2011, 10:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
One reason is half a tank is lighter - you use less gas carrying around your gas.
Uh-huh, and then you burn your savings by making extra stops to fill up more often.
     
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Mar 12, 2011, 11:08 AM
 
10 MPG. $7.13/gallon (US). Still drive like a bastard. Commute is still a 5 second walk into another room.
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Oisín
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Mar 12, 2011, 11:44 AM
 
I don’t drive, so petrol prices don’t directly affect me. According to fdmbenzinpriser.dk, the current price is about 12.5 – 13 kroner per litre ($9 – $9.15 per US gallon) here, which does seem a bit more expensive than I remember it being previously, but I don’t know if it’s actually going up or if it’s been around that for a while.

I guess, though, that the prices of petrol are in some way part of the reason why tickets for public transportation keeps going up. Thankfully, monthly passes haven’t changed (much) by this yet, so I’m fairly unaffected in that regard, too; but individual ticket prices have gone up from 14 kroner ($2.61) for a minimum (two-zone) ticket about three years ago, to 24 kroner ($4.74) now.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 12, 2011, 11:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Uh-huh, and then you burn your savings by making extra stops to fill up more often.
Rule of thumb is that 100 kg extra weight consume around an additional 0.5 L/100 km.

Petrol is about 0.7 kg/L, so half a tank (generally 60L) is around 20 kg.

That's 0.1 L / 100 km less. Or 1 L / 1000 km. Or 1 gallon for every 2300 miles.

You'd save TEN TIMES that by turning off the ****ing air conditioning.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Mar 12, 2011, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
You'd save TEN TIMES that by turning off the ****ing air conditioning.
You'd save about ONE TIME that amount by making half as refueling stops
     
Eug
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Mar 12, 2011, 12:26 PM
 
Here is my 2004 Prius's lifetime gas mileage. I record the litres and the kms travelled for all my fillups. I'd estimate this is 90%+ city driving. (My commute now is 15 km each way, but through city streets.)



On the X axis is fillup number, so it looks like I'm filling up 2.6X per month on average, including both just everyday work travel and road trips, etc. Normally I fill up about twice a month.

On the Y axis is the fuel efficiency. You can see that in the winter I've crossed the 9 L/100 km mark, on the coldest days when I make only very short trips in the city. However, in the summer with highway driving I've been below 5 L/100 km on warm but not-too-hot periods, esp. when I don't need the AC on full blast. Normally with city driving in the summer I'm below 6 L/100 km but above 5 L/100 km.

Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Factor in Cost of Car (Prius is a bit more)
Cost of replacing batteries after 8 years (would like to know how long you can go with out replacing them
It hasn't been an issue for the 2004-2009 Prius - lasts the life of the car, which is tested to 180000 miles. Dunno about the 2010 because it's too new. It was somewhat of problem with the 2001-2003 Prius. That first gen Prius was also designed to to hit 180000 but battery failures before that happened. It apparently is quite rare with the 2004-2009 model. However, for the rare case of failure, an installed remanufactured battery pack is $1800 plus shipping. For the remanufactured battery pack (sans installation) it's $1475 plus shipping I believe. (Apparently though, the vast majority of battery replacements are for repairs after car accidents.)

Driving habbits, if you gun it in a prius your using motor more often then battery not saving you anything.
Not true. I drive my Prius and my GF's Yaris identically, and the Prius still gets noticeably better mileage. One difference is that the Prius captures energy through engine braking… which is why the brake pads last so long.

Yeah, if you jackrabbit drive and speed in a Prius you'll get poorer gas mileage, but if you do the same in any other car, you'll get poorer gas mileage with that too.
     
placebo1969
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Mar 12, 2011, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
It don't, high gas prices just affect my spending habits everywhere else.

$1.31L (87) as of 10 minutes ago

Im tempted to start filling up in Bellingham, WA which converts to about 89 cents L
Worlds colliding.

Ironically, Bellingham has the highest gasoline prices in the entire state. I blame the Canadians.
     
Eug
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Mar 12, 2011, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by placebo1969 View Post
Worlds colliding.

Ironically, Bellingham has the highest gasoline prices in the entire state. I blame the Canadians.
I wonder what proportion of the city is Vancouver shoppers on any given weekend.

Still, I would have guessed gas prices would be even higher in Blaine. No?
     
Eug
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Mar 12, 2011, 04:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Weirdly enough, the tank size varies, which is kinda annoying. They put a bladder in the tank so that it shrinks a bit as the gas is consumed. This reduces evaporation.

When I hit 786 it was just over 40 L I think, but I'd have to check. When I hit 825 km my fill up was in the low 40s. So, the gas mileage was 5.x L/100 km, with the air conditioning on. I think my driving speed was usually around 110 - 120 km/hr.

Normally when I fill up (when I get the low fuel warning) it's about 30-35 L, but there is still a fair amount of fuel left over at that point obviously. For real life big city driving I get more like 500 (or 600 km if there's highway driving thrown in) per tank in the summer, again with 30-35 L per fill up. However, like I said, I'm a jackrabbit driver.
So, I checked the stats. My average fill-up over the car's lifetime is 30 L. The most ever is 44.3 L, which is the time I went 786.6 km (but I've only hit 40 L a couple times total). The car says I used 5.3 L/100 km that time, but my calculated efficiency was 5.63 L/100 km which makes sense since I kept on pushing gas in after the automatic cut off on the fuel nozzle shut off. (Remember, my tank has a rubber bladder which can expand a bit.)

My best calculated efficiency was 4.81 L/100 km, which was 29.1 L over 605.4 km. That works out to 48.9 mpg. It seems the Prius ubergeeks consistently average 50+ mpg, but they have to drive like little old blue-haired ladies to achieve that, and it only works if you live in places like California. In Michigan, not so much.
     
placebo1969
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Mar 12, 2011, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I wonder what proportion of the city is Vancouver shoppers on any given weekend.

Still, I would have guessed gas prices would be even higher in Blaine. No?
Yes they are. I should have been more specific regarding somewhat bigger cities. At least when I watch the Seattle stations, they always list Bellingham as the highest. They probably factor in Blaine. Either way, I stand by my earlier statement.
     
The Godfather
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Mar 12, 2011, 05:30 PM
 
Virtually all 2001 Prii haven't needed new batteries.
The battery is never cycled below 30%. That is key to their Toyota-like longevity.
And the fact that they are not Lithium batteries helps.
     
Eug
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Mar 12, 2011, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
Virtually all 2001 Prii haven't needed new batteries.
The battery is never cycled below 30%. That is key to their Toyota-like longevity.
And the fact that they are not Lithium batteries helps.
Yes, the vast majority of 2001 Prius' batteries are fine, even at the end of their life. Nonetheless there are a few reports here and there of cars needing replacements. However, my point was that the percentage for 2004 Priuses seems to be an order of magnitude of smaller - very rare.

(Their regular 12 V battery still needs replacement like any other car, but that's just a couple of hundred bux installed.)
     
turtle777
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Mar 12, 2011, 06:01 PM
 
A couple of hundred bux for a regular 12V battery ? Why ?

-t
     
Eug
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Mar 12, 2011, 06:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
A couple of hundred bux for a regular 12V battery ? Why ?
Cuz it's an odd OEM part. They use Japanese standard posts, etc. I believe and it's an odd install (in the trunk actually).

You can pay $105 online for the direct Toyota-branded OEM replacement, or you can buy a much better after market battery for $180 including the install kit. If you buy the Toyota-branded OEM replacement at the dealer then it's probably the same price as the better after market battery, so many people just get the after market.

BTW, I just tested my battery using the car's service menu. The battery is coming in at 12.0 V with nearly everything off, and 11.8 V under a very small load. It's supposed to be at 12.0 or higher under load. However, I figure that's probably OK for a while. If it drops below about 11.3 or so (depending on who you believe) then it's supposed to be replaced.

Mind you apparently that service menu isn't necessarily all that accurate. Maybe I'll grab a voltmeter and check the actual battery leads when I get some more time. Supposedly sometimes the service menu reads a bit low.
     
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Mar 12, 2011, 09:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Uh-huh, and then you burn your savings by making extra stops to fill up more often.
It's one more stop per tank. If you believe one stop burns up more gas than the gas saved from not carrying about an extra half tank, then don't do it.

To use Spheric's calculation, it's about .1L/100km. I get about 600km per full tank in my car, so for half a tank it's .3L per half tank.

If your car uses more than .3L just to stop once for gas and leave the gas station, then your car has serious problems.
     
HackManDan
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Mar 12, 2011, 10:26 PM
 
The wife and I take public transit (bus and light-rail) to work daily. So our routine driving isn't dramatically impacted by increased gasoline cost. But, being in California, any reasonable trip up or down the state (or out of state) cost . No high-speed rail yet.
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All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.
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Uncle Skeleton
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Mar 14, 2011, 12:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
It's one more stop per tank. If you believe one stop burns up more gas than the gas saved from not carrying about an extra half tank, then don't do it.

To use Spheric's calculation, it's about .1L/100km. I get about 600km per full tank in my car, so for half a tank it's .3L per half tank.

If your car uses more than .3L just to stop once for gas and leave the gas station, then your car has serious problems.
I don't know liters so I'm going to convert that to .079 gallons (US), so if your gas station stop is 0.6 mile out of your way (mine is actually 0.8), and your car gets 15 miles per gallon in stop/go driving (mine does), then it is exactly as I said, it cancels out your gain (1/15 g * 1.2 mi = 0.8 g). Of course all of this ignores the value of your time spent making extra stops, any gas that evaporates while you're taking the nozzle in and out of your car, any wasted resources on the merchant's end for processing extra transactions, etc. It's robbing peter to pay paul.
     
Doc HM
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Mar 15, 2011, 06:05 PM
 
Well, petrol around here is running at £1.36 per litre and rising and since I do a lot of business miles visiting clients all over the cotswolds the increase was really biting.

We had a legacy car, a Peugeot 406 estate but with a super stupid 2.2 litre engine. It's a great motor, chucking out 170BHP with some clever variable valve gubbins for overtaking BUT it only manages about 27 miles per gallon.

The new (old) DHM van is nearly 20 years old but still immaculate. It cost me £700 on ebay and it's 900cc engine delivers nearly 60 miles per gallon.

In addition servicing is negligable, it has tiny tyres that cost 1/4 of the cost of those on the peugeot. Insurance is under half the Peugeots and road tax is also massively cheaper.

All around town journeys are either walked or by bike. In short the current costs of motoring have caused us to get way way more efficient. even if we can't address the total miles travelled to a great degree we have had to take a giant scythe to the spend on petrol.
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Doc HM
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Mar 15, 2011, 06:11 PM
 
Local lady gets wrong end of fuel price stick:

Petrol prices fuel rising anger (From Swindon Advertiser)

Vivienne Deacon, 56, of Cheltenham said: “I think it’s disgusting – I used to fill up and it would last me a week and now I have to fill up twice. I’m thinking of getting a car with better miles per gallon.”
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turtle777
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Mar 15, 2011, 07:29 PM
 
That's disgusting

-t
     
hayesk
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Mar 23, 2011, 03:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I don't know liters so I'm going to convert that to .079 gallons (US), so if your gas station stop is 0.6 mile out of your way (mine is actually 0.8), and your car gets 15 miles per gallon in stop/go driving (mine does), then it is exactly as I said, it cancels out your gain (1/15 g * 1.2 mi = 0.8 g).
I pass several gas stations on my way to and from work every day. I would say a lot of people do.

If you have to drive out of your way, and you have such poor gas mileage, then yes, it may be worth it for you to fill up.
Of course all of this ignores the value of your time spent making extra stops, any gas that evaporates while you're taking the nozzle in and out of your car, any wasted resources on the merchant's end for processing extra transactions, etc. It's robbing peter to pay paul.
Again you keep repeaning "extra stops" as if it's plural - it's one more per tankful. One. It's five minutes, tops. And seriously, evaporating gas is also insignificant, and I couldn't care less of wasted resources on the merchant's end as it's factored into the price of the fuel. We're talking about the driver saving money here.
     
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Mar 23, 2011, 03:50 PM
 
I walk approximately 6 minutes to my office. And rent a car every couple weeks and bitch and whine about high gas prices - $1.30 a litre here!

Woohoo
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Person Man
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Mar 23, 2011, 04:01 PM
 
Well, I had a 2004 Nissan Sentra that got about 25 miles/gallon in the city and about 30 on the highway. Wrecked the car one snowy/icy morning about 4 weeks ago.

Now I have a 2011 Volkswagen Jetta TDI that is getting about 30-32 MPG in the city and about 50-55 MPG on the highway. Couldn't be happier. That extra MPG more than offsets the higher cost of diesel. Plus the car handles WAY better!
     
imitchellg5
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Mar 23, 2011, 04:03 PM
 
I really want a TDI VW. Out east of the city in FarmVille, diesel is actually cheaper than petrol, which is nice.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Mar 23, 2011, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
I pass several gas stations on my way to and from work every day. I would say a lot of people do.
But is it the cheapest station? After all, "we're talking about saving money here"

If you have to drive out of your way, and you have such poor gas mileage, then yes, it may be worth it for you to fill up.
Don't kid yourself, "stopping" for gas is literally 100% "stop-and-go" driving, by definition, you will get the worst possible mileage during this activity.


Again you keep repeaning "extra stops" as if it's plural - it's one more per tankful. One.
... Per. Tankful. How many tankfuls are you talking about, one or "plural?"
Are you pooling your vast "savings" from this scheme over "plurals" of tankfuls, in order to make them add up to more than $1?

It's five minutes, tops.
And it's about 66¢, tops (half that much for US gas prices). That comes out to less than $8 per hour ($4 US). That's a pretty poor use of your time to supposedly save so much money.

And seriously, evaporating gas is also insignificant, and I couldn't care less of wasted resources on the merchant's end as it's factored into the price of the fuel. We're talking about the driver saving money here.
Saving 33¢ per week by making twice as many gas stops (netting $4/hr) is also insignificant. Try comparing apples to apples
     
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Mar 23, 2011, 04:43 PM
 
One of my favorite "sound bites" with respect to higher gasoline prices came from a Greek news segment from the early to mid 1990's about a large increase in gasoline taxes. The International Channel would air a half-hour news program from Greece and my father watched it regularly.

So, they were interviewing various people about how the higher prices would impact their driving habits, and they showed this one cranky old guy at the gas pump. He was clearly not happy with having a news camera shoved in his face. "I don't give a <BEEP> about the higher prices. I've always put 5000 drachmas' worth of gas in my car and I always will put 5000 drachmas' worth in forever!"

To which my father then responded, "You'll just do it more often."
     
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Mar 23, 2011, 08:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I really want a TDI VW. Out east of the city in FarmVille, diesel is actually cheaper than petrol, which is nice.
crap.... they're letting people drive in that stupid game now?
     
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Mar 24, 2011, 12:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
crap.... they're letting people drive in that stupid awesome game now?
Fixinated.
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Mar 28, 2011, 10:23 AM
 
I drive 30,000+ miles per year and gas prices don't bother me at all and I haven't changed anything.
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
hayesk
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Mar 29, 2011, 09:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
But is it the cheapest station? After all, "we're talking about saving money here"
You quickly learn which is the cheapest station, so yes.
Don't kid yourself, "stopping" for gas is literally 100% "stop-and-go" driving, by definition, you will get the worst possible mileage during this activity.
Yes, and the one extra stop per tankful is insignificant compared to the cost saved from carrying around the weight of half a tank.
... Per. Tankful. How many tankfuls are you talking about, one or "plural?"
Are you pooling your vast "savings" from this scheme over "plurals" of tankfuls, in order to make them add up to more than $1?
If you save money for each tankful, then you save money. Period. It only adds up. Using the previous rule of thumb (1L/1000km), I'd save 2L per month. There I live, it's about $2.40/month. For 15 extra minutes.
And it's about 66¢, tops (half that much for US gas prices). That comes out to less than $8 per hour ($4 US). That's a pretty poor use of your time to supposedly save so much money.
I wasn't arguing that you save a lot, just that you save. Nope, not a lot, never disputed that.
     
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Mar 30, 2011, 07:08 AM
 
I've somewhat specialized in long pointless arguments on this board, but this one easily takes the proverbial cake
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Oisín
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Mar 30, 2011, 07:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I've somewhat specialized in long pointless arguments on this board, but this one easily takes the proverbial cake
… and soaks it in petrol.
     
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Mar 30, 2011, 12:48 PM
 
Oh what the heck, I'll play again

Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
You quickly learn which is the cheapest station, so yes.
So now you're changing your daily commute so it goes past the cheapest station? That's even more wasteful than I thought.

Yes, and the one extra stop per tankful is insignificant compared to the cost saved from carrying around the weight of half a tank.
No, it's insignificant period. But when compared to another insignificant value, then it's not because they're the same.

If you save money for each tankful, then you save money. Period. It only adds up. Using the previous rule of thumb (1L/1000km), I'd save 2L per month.
Priceless. If you waste time each tankful, then you waste time. Period. It only adds up.

I'll give you 4 pennies for a nickel... you'll gain pennies over time. Period. They'll add up. Never mind the nickels, they're just insignificant noise.

I bet you're the same type of person who's eager to throw as much money as possible at mortgage interest so they can "save" on taxes. Pay an extra dollar in order to save 33¢.

There I live, it's about $2.40/month. For 15 extra minutes.
So your time is worth less than $9.60 per hour? Gross (before accounting for the extra wear and tear on your transmission, and the stop/go fuel economy of your car)? Mine isn't. That's barely minimum wage. What's the minimum wage there you live?

I wasn't arguing that you save a lot, just that you save. Nope, not a lot, never disputed that.
I wasn't arguing that you waste a lot (time/gas), just that you waste. Nope, not a lot, never disputed that.
     
imitchellg5
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Mar 30, 2011, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
So now you're changing your daily commute so it goes past the cheapest station? That's even more wasteful than I thought.
I don't know about besson, but on my 20 mile drive to work I pass at least 14 gas stations (that I can think of).
     
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Mar 30, 2011, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I don't know about besson, but on my 20 mile drive to work I pass at least 14 gas stations (that I can think of).
Are any of them the cheapest station in the region? Check gasbuddy.com if you don't know.

In my 2-mile commute I don't pass any.
     
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Mar 30, 2011, 02:12 PM
 
The way it goes today, I fill up the tank completely because if I only filled half and waited a few days the price would go up 10c per gallon.
     
 
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